The more I think about it, the more I'm going to be fine if Austin is our DC, especially if Tomlin has a lot of control over this defense....I think it's especially since 2019 that Tomlin had more responsibility in defense, the reason why Butler was also our LB coach since this period too
Of course, improving the run defense is going to be a must, so hopefully it will improve during the free agency period and the draft.
OK. I saw the Tre Norwood interview.Originally Posted by Mojouw
I thought Spoon said similar. But looks like I mixed it up.
I was skeptical when Austin was hired. But I was super-duper wrong about the positive impact a position coach and former DC could have.
I don’t want to make the same mistake again. Hopefully, I haven’t over corrected into unfounded optimism.
Only thing I wonder about is that it was said that Butler could draw up pressure pretty well. Wonder if Austin/Tomlin can be as good? Better? Or do they add a LB coach that brings that spice to the sauce?
Dulac might want to make sure the multiple DCs across the NFL aware of his astonishing insight.
They should probably quit their jobs.
While he’s at it, better let the OCs that have head coaches with play-calling roles know that their job is pointless.
Steelers fans will spin everything and anything into a negative.
I mean how would he know if the Steelers never interview anyone
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Could argue that they interviewed Austin when they hired him in 2019.
There’s a greater than zero chance that the 2022 Steelers have an awful defense and Austin is summarily fired.
But I’m not just going to assume it’s all doom and gloom because Dulac got grumpy and had an itchy Twitter finger.
I am far from doom and gloom, just think yheres a prope wat to fill jobs. Liek i said earlier inauinw if we never interview tomlin cause we already knew grimm and whiz.
But of course we should enter every training camp with lots of QBs so we can see which is best.
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Last edited by NCSteeler; 01-24-2022 at 12:21 PM.
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Health, too. But, there was something said during one of the games about the coaches teaching Witherspoon how to watch tape.
Regardless, I too am good with it.
Drawing up blitzes isnt rocket science. Its execution, practicing if its disguised and having multiple show- and go, or show-no go, or no-show blitzes that will confuse offenses, more than the actual blitz.
And just like offensive play calling, you get into the game and its a moving chess game of making a good call every 40 seconds that will be good vs the play the OC just called, or not. If you show it too early, the QB changes out of it, or you show pressure and back out to make the QB audible unnecessarily.
I still dont know that I see Tomlin on the sideline calling in plays thru the headset, when the Defense is on the field. Also, I might be missing if he has a defensive call sheet with him when the Steelers are on defense.
For a guy that is allegedly making all the defensive calls, I normally just see him on the sidelines with his shades on acting cool. Not like Don Martindale actively calling in plays off a sheet of his.
I actually don’t think Tomlin makes a ton of game day calls.I still dont know that I see Tomlin on the sideline calling in plays thru the headset, when the Defense is on the field. Also, I might be missing if he has a defensive call sheet with him when the Steelers are on defense.
For a guy that is allegedly making all the defensive calls, I normally just see him on the sidelines with his shades on acting cool. Not like Don Martindale actively calling in plays off a sheet of his.
I just think the whole issue is incredibly overblown.
Years ago it was Tomlin doesn’t actually do anything. He should do something.
Now, somehow a coach having input or control over one side of the ball or the other is just too much. Huh?
Happens all over the NFL every week. Many teams are incredibly successful doing it.
I actually think it’s likely been Austin on/in the defensive headset if it’s not been Butler. But what do I know?
Someone has been doing something right for the Steelers for a bit now.
It was usually reported by Steelers scribes that Butler “designed” pressures.
Again, most of these guys are not exactly super sleuths. So who knows?
Just something to think about.
Don't forget deer in the headlights/1,000 yard stare.
How does one simply "stand there looking clueless" and "meddle too much in the playcalling" at the same time?
Honestly "designing pressures" is really not something that is amazingly difficult. The simple math of it where there are really 6 offensive gaps and 4 LB's a slot CB and you generally would only blitz one S, which really doesnt happen that much....the mathematical combinations have a limit. When you add the strategy, it narrows down blitzes in some combination with line stunts and gap replacement schemes.
You can watch a few games of All-22 film, goto the AFCA (American Football Coaches Assoc) website to look up some articles or just work google to find info.
My point is that its really likely that any blitzes that Keith Butler or any current DC ever draws up, has been run hundreds of times over by a lot of other coordinators over the past 20+ years. Its knowing when to call those pressures and the ability to coach it up so that the opposing QB doesnt read it pre snap. So I would be more concerned with hiring a guy that knows how to teach his players the style of play he wants, how to best disguise pressures and who seems to have a good ability to make the right calls when he needs to, rather than finding a guy that somehow plagiarizes blitzes that have been around for decades, better than the next.
Fine. We can workshop the wording.
I think you know what point I’m trying to make.
In the recent past, the Steelers defense has been highly effective at pressuring the QB. Many reporters, players, and coaches have attributed a sizable portion of that success specifically to Butler.
Has that responsibility been accurately attributed? No idea.
Maybe it’s an intern with Google.
Tomlin and Bulter both carry a play chart but its half the size of the one Martindale totes with him ...I still dont know that I see Tomlin on the sideline calling in plays thru the headset, when the Defense is on the field. Also, I might be missing if he has a defensive call sheet with him when the Steelers are on defense.
For a guy that is allegedly making all the defensive calls, I normally just see him on the sidelines with his shades on acting cool. Not like Don Martindale actively calling in plays off a sheet of his.
Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now
And I am saying that just about every DC in the NFL is going to draw up similar blitzes to have in their defensive playbooks. I dont think Keith Butler is some kind of savant at drawing up pressure schemes from line stunts and blitzes any more than 20 other DC's in the league.
I would say that "its more Jimmies and Joe's, than X's and O's". Watt, Cam, Highsmith, Tuitt, Hargrave are all guys off hand that pressure the QB well and when the Steelers didnt have some guys like that, then they ran more ILB blitzes with Vince Williams or corner blitz with Hilton, because they could not apply pressure with just 4 rushers.
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OK thanks. Can anybody recall seeing that Tomlin calls in the defensive signals before each play, whether they can recall seeing it on TV or at the games on sidelines. I just cant recall actively seeing Tomlin pushing the button on the belt, looking at his call sheet and speaking in the microphone on drives that the other team is making??
Maybe the camera isnt on him when plays are being called in, but i just cant recall it.
just impossible to tell with still photos and covid protocol ( masking ) past couple seasons
but here are a few pics make of them what you will its anyone's guess
Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now
Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute">
The 2021 Steelers defense had a 45.1% pressure rate. Whoever called the plays, great job and thank you.
Ok thanks. I just wonder if a lot of this "any new D coordinator wont be able to make his own calls because Tomlin wont let him" talk is just a lot of some blogger fabrication because they really dont know what happens on a defensive series during games.just impossible to tell with still photos and covid protocol ( masking ) past couple seasons
but here are a few pics make of them what you will its anyone's guess
I have called games at a youth level and I have seen at coaching clinics, High School and College Coordinators explain their call sheets and how they organize them week to week as they prepare for different opponents. Its a lot of info and I would expect NFL DC to be sending more info thru the mic, but I just havent seen Tomlin calling it in on TV.
For instance, you have to call your base alignment depending on personnel, like when the Steelers have 3 D linemen, vs when its only 2 and the OLB on the line. Then any line stunts like slants, loops, twists have to coordinate with any blitzes to make sure you have each player in a gap responsibility and then you need the correct coverage on the back end.
Like you cant call Cover 2 man and send 5 rushers, because that only leaves 4 defenders playing man on 5 offensive receivers. Its gotta be Cover 1 or stay in zone, or its a Cover 2 look with a Safety replacement on the blitz and it becomes Cover 1. I guess some really smart guys keep it all in their head and it becomes 2nd nature to call what they want, but it can be a lot of info.
I actually agree with that.
And was trying to say all that across various posts.
The only additional element I wanted to add is that many Steelers watchers and Steelers adjacent “analysts” have lauded Butler’s work assisting (???) those “Jimmie’s and Joes” in creating pass rush pressure. Further, several of those same pass rushers have praised both Butler and others for helping them become better rushers.
Is that the case? I dunno. But the dude must’ve been doing something right. Team has certainly generated an eyebrow raising number of sacks last several years.
How much, if any, does Butler have to do with that? And sure, my phrasing and word choice got all this is piss poor because I don’t coach football but I do think Butler must’ve done something while at his workplace the last however many years.
good stuff ....
full disclosure I have spent the last 20 mins looking for Butler making calls ( google images ) and found only 2 photos with him and the play card in hand ....
that said in order to get a better feel for what that meant I searched Lebeau on steelers sidelines and didn't find many more and he was here longer ...
if that an indictment on Tomlin or not is anyone's guess but if I was a betting man I would say ( as I expected when he was hired ) Butlers slow diction cost him a lot of play calling opportunity because only so much time and need quick decisive calling ...
I also Believe ( can't prove it ) Lebeau made most of his calls but Tomlin interceded from time to time as I also Believe Tomlin has interjected himself into every OC play calls from time to time as well ( it is the head coaches prerogative to do so as it comes with the title HEAD coach )
now this is not me backing up Tomlin or derogating him its just life in the national football league ..
Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now
Definitely. The guy was a good pro LB and probably the guy that at times got all the defensive signals into him on the field, so its kind of like an internship to Defensive coaching and playcalling. He spent a lot of years coaching and will have a lot of tips and pointers to becoming a better LB from all aspects of the position.
The thing is, that when he didnt have the Jimmies and Joe's to rush the passer, he was dialing up blitzes. Then when the DB's got beat and the fans bitched that "Steelers CB's suck", "Steelers cant draft CB's", etc. A lot of it is that the DB's were left on an island and we saw this past weekend what happens when good WR's get left in single coverage against good QB's. So recently when Dupree broke out in his final year and Watt becomes a pressure machine, the back end can play more coverage and suddenly the pass defense is deemed to be better.
Dialing up pressure isnt hard to do schematically. Dialing it up and not getting beat by the QB is always the risk. Its easer as a DC to do if your opposition isnt talented, but tougher to do if they are. Having a DC that knows how to teach up disguising coverages and when to call blitzes and when not to, because he is starting to "get the OC's number", is of value IMO.
Very true.
I guess, what I am getting at is what has the "division of labor" been among the defensive minds on the Steelers for the past handful of years? We have no way of knowing, but it will be interesting to see what changes both in terms of process and results with Butler's departure.
It seems that in the past couple of years, the Steelers have had more "success" with disguising coverages. Now...that may be because they are getting pressure with less guys rushing. Or it may be better players in the secondary. Or it could be the impact of Austin. Or it could be some other thing or the other...
Pass rush and coverage go hand in hand. One can make the other look better and vis versa. I wonder if Butler had a role in helping some players develop "timing" in all the individual parts of a pass rush plan that you posted earlier. What I am thinking of is that guys like VW and Hilton got "better" at coming on the rush over the course of their time here. Was that just natural player progression or something someone on the coaching staff helped to instill?
Keith Butler revealed Monday that Mike Tomlin didn't just call defensive plays throughout his time as the Steelers' defensive coordinator, he did so in the final seasons Dick LeBeau was the team's coordinator, as well.
“The last couple of years with Dick LeBeau, Mike was calling the plays, too,” said Butler. "It's something he wanted to do. It's something he had done. He wanted to do that here, and as the head coach, he should be able to do what he wants to do.
"As much as I wanted to be more involved in calling defenses and stuff, I wanted to do what was best for the team, what was best for our defense and what was best for our guys in terms of learning the defense," Butler said. "We had a lot to do with the game plan and things like that. Mike is the head coach and he can do what he wants to and should be able to do what he wants to as the head coach.
"He knew how I felt about it, but he's going to do what he thinks is best to win football games. That's the way he's always been."
"He needs to get somebody to help him. I think he's got an idea of who he wants. I'm pretty sure Teryl Austin is going to get a chance to be the coordinator here," Butler said. "Teryl does a good job. He did a good job of helping me in terms of laying out the game plan. We did that. We laid out the game plan as position coaches. We all got together and did that stuff and Mike would put his two cents in on what we wanted to do, what we tried to do. It worked out for the most part. He'll continue to do that, I'm sure."
As ESPN’s Brook Pryor tweeted: “Coach Tomlin inserts himself where he needs to,” Rooney said. “He and coordinators have to work out the best way for plays to be called … As we change defensive coordinators now, there may be some changes in how coach Tomlin handles that.”
The Steelers will never attract a top defensive play-caller if Tomlin doesn’t relinquish control
https://sports.yahoo.com/steelers-ar...195800392.html
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Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute">
Defenses under Tomlin....https://www.pro-football-reference.c...es/TomlMi0.htm
Not shabby.
At some point it needs to be asked why Butler kicked this particular rock over. He could've just said typical coach cliches in his interviews. But it appeared he took to the local sports radio interview circuit with the goal of getting this "information" out there. One has to wonder why?
The pessimist in me says it so Butler can take credit for the positives and avoid blame for the negatives and burnish his legacy a bit. Not uncommon upon retiring to try and frame the narrative about your career in the most positive light.
The optimist in me says its just Butler musing out loud about this or that and it really doesn't have an agenda behind it. Provides context to the answer of who he thinks will succeed him as DC.
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