The (Un)Greatness of Belichick

[DesertSteel]

Really... give it an objective look. Don't even factor in the cheating, just the record. Who is responsible for the 6 Super Bowls, Bill or Brady? I think that question has been answered. So, let's look at Bill's coaching record in seasons when he didn't have Brady. There are 9 totals seasons: 5 in Cleveland, 1 at the start of his Patriots tenure, 1 due to injury and 2 since Brady left. NINE SEASONS - no small body of work. Surely, the greatest coach of all time could prove his genius over 9 season.

But the REALITY...

Six of the 9 seasons were LOSING RECORDS.
His overall record for 9 seasons without Brady is:

69-76

Greatest coach? The evidence proves otherwise. This past weekend was just another example of the myth of Belichick's greatness.

[Shoes]

Really... give it an objective look. Don't even factor in the cheating, just the record. Who is responsible for the 6 Super Bowls, Bill or Brady? I think that question has been answered. So, let's look at Bill's coaching record in seasons when he didn't have Brady. There are 9 totals seasons: 5 in Cleveland, 1 at the start of his Patriots tenure, 1 due to injury and 2 since Brady left. NINE SEASONS - no small body of work. Surely, the greatest coach of all time could prove his genius over 9 season.

But the REALITY...

Six of the 9 seasons were LOSING RECORDS.
His overall record for 9 seasons without Brady is:

69-76

Greatest coach? The evidence proves otherwise. This past weekend was just another example of the myth of Belichick's greatness.

Bill is a good coach, Brady is a better QB and probably why he will be in another SB this year. His play doesn't look diminished at all.

[Mojouw]

If he or any other coach gets the blame when the team plays poorly, they should also get some of the credit when the team wins.

What is any great coach’s record without their star player?

[DesertSteel]

If he or any other coach gets the blame when the team plays poorly, they should also get some of the credit when the team wins.

What is any great coach’s record without their star player?

Cowher had a pretty good record without a star QB. Joe Gibbs won 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QBs that weren't stars. I'm not saying that Belichick isn't "good" but he isn't the GOAT.

[fansince'76]

If he or any other coach gets the blame when the team plays poorly, they should also get some of the credit when the team wins.

What is any great coach’s record without their star player?

Well, that's long been part of the narrative too - that Belichick can stick any bunch of jabronis out on the field and keep right on winning.

Bill is a good coach, Brady is a better QB and probably why he will be in another SB this year. His play doesn't look diminished at all.

And I'm sure PEDs have nothing to do with the fact that he has a better arm at 44 than he did at 30...

Too bad he can't get busted red-handed like Peyton Manning did.

[Shoes]

Well, that's long been part of the narrative too - that Belichick can stick any bunch of jabronis out on the field and keep right on winning.



And I'm sure PEDs have nothing to do with the fact that he has a better arm at 44 than he did at 30...

Too bad he can't get busted red-handed like Peyton Manning did.

I'm not so sure Brady would go that route, one never knows though since he came from a cheating organization. He seems to take his physical health very serious, which would go contrary to stuffing yourself with drugs. On the other hand all about "ME" is very much a stumblingblock.

[fansince'76]

I'm not so sure Brady would go that route, one never knows though since he came from a cheating organization. He seems to take his physical health very serious, which would go contrary to stuffing yourself with drugs. On the other hand all about "ME" is very much a stumblingblock.

I find it really hard to believe that a guy who is as unathletic as Tom Brady is the one who has finally figured out how to "beat" Father Time - I think this guy nails it:

Tom Brady is 44 years old. People have been talking about his age vis-a-vis his prolific passing numbers since he was in his late 30s so it's easy to forget. Tom Brady is 44 years old. What Brady is doing now is unmatched in American sports. We've seen other QBs recently play until their late 30s or so (Manning, Favre, Rivers, etc.) but there was a noticeable decline in their play and in particular their physical abilities. Brady has played a half decade longer than those guys and has maintained his peak abilities.The only close comparison to him is, of course, Barry Bonds. Bonds had a similar HOF resume before his late 30s/40s peak. For those who were too young to remember, Bonds hit 73 home runs at age 36... and then won his second, third, and fourth consecutive MVP at age 37, 38, and 39. Bonds' OPS in his final age 42 season was 1.045, which would be just 0.007 off #1 in 2021 (and only three players are above 1.000). Bonds was elite up through the end of his career. But unlike Brady, Bonds was despised and vilified for his steroid use and it was a constant topic of discussion surrounding his play.

So why doesn't Brady face the same skepticism? Why does everyone just pretend that Brady's sleeping habits and hydration keep him in elite form when that's obviously bullshit? Has there even been a single longform article on Dr. Alex Guerrero, even after Edelman was popped for PEDs a couple of years ago?

https://www.reddit.com/r/billsimmons...rady_has_used/

It's also instructive to note that as soon as the HGH story broke with Peyton Manning that his performance went into the toilet. He HAD to quit using since the NFL was investigating it at that point (of course they "cleared" his name later ), so...

[86WARD]

Cowher had a pretty good record without a star QB. Joe Gibbs won 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QBs that weren't stars. I'm not saying that Belichick isn't "good" but he isn't the GOAT.

Cowher had a lot of Star players. Almost a full defense of Star players. If he loses, Polamalu, that defense can still step up. Star players don’t have to be the QBs.

[86WARD]

I find it really hard to believe that a guy who is as unathletic as Tom Brady is the one who has finally figured out how to "beat" Father Time - I think this guy nails it:


https://www.reddit.com/r/billsimmons...rady_has_used/

It's also instructive to note that as soon as the HGH story broke with Peyton Manning that his performance went into the toilet. He HAD to quit using since the NFL was investigating it at that point (of course they "cleared" his name later ), so...

So does this guy think that Brady is taking some sort of performance enhancers that are undetectable?

[fansince'76]

So does this guy think that Brady is taking some sort of performance enhancers that are undetectable?

I think he's assuming that Saint Brady isn't subject to the same rules as everyone else in the league on the "random" testing front - I am in the same camp. Similar to the same deal of Rodgers basically being allowed to skate on the league's Covid protocols.

And then there was James Harrison getting tagged for a "random" league test SEVEN times in the space of a year when some of his teammates didn't have to submit a sample once in the same timeframe. I also wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Brady's number hasn't come up for a "random" league test in YEARS.

If memory serves, Bonds never "legally" tested positive either.

Being a "face" of the league has its perks. There's also no telling what that quack "trainer" Guerrero has been pumping Brady with.

Gee, why so defensive?

[NCSteeler]

Cowher had a pretty good record without a star QB. Joe Gibbs won 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QBs that weren't stars. I'm not saying that Belichick isn't "good" but he isn't the GOAT.

Not quite the modern pass happy era. But you gotta play by the rules in front of you

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[pepsyman1]

I think Belichick will be better evaluated over the next couple of years. He made it back to the playoffs after one year off with a rookie QB. What was more surprising was the pounding his defense took with the Bills. Belichick isn't one to sit and not change something if it isn't working. I'll be interested to see what happens this coming year.

[Mojouw]

I would bet that 70-80% of the NFL is on some form of PED or another.

Better living through chemistry and all that.

[DesertSteel]

I would bet that 70-80% of the NFL is on some form of PED or another.

Better living through chemistry and all that.

Is there anything wrong with that? It worked for the Steelers in the 70s.

[86WARD]

I think he's assuming that Saint Brady isn't subject to the same rules as everyone else in the league on the "random" testing front - I am in the same camp. Similar to the same deal of Rodgers basically being allowed to skate on the league's Covid protocols.

And then there was James Harrison getting tagged for a "random" league test SEVEN times in the space of a year when some of his teammates didn't have to submit a sample once in the same timeframe. I also wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Brady's number hasn't come up for a "random" league test in YEARS.

If memory serves, Bonds never "legally" tested positive either.

Being a "face" of the league has its perks. There's also no telling what that quack "trainer" Guerrero has been pumping Brady with.

Gee, why so defensive?

Wonder how many random tests Brady has incurred.

[Mojouw]

Is there anything wrong with that? It worked for the Steelers in the 70s.

I couldn’t care less. I think the sanctimonious hand wringing by many on PEDs is ridiculous. Looking at how quickly guys return from major injury, remake their bodies in record time, simply recover from rigorous training to do it all again a day or so later, and on and on. The circumstantial evidence is there that a ton of guys are enhancing their capabilities.

I suspect it’s been going on since Day 2 in the NFL.

[DesertSteel]

I couldn’t care less. I think the sanctimonious hand wringing by many on PEDs is ridiculous. Looking at how quickly guys return from major injury, remake their bodies in record time, simply recover from rigorous training to do it all again a day or so later, and on and on. The circumstantial evidence is there that a ton of guys are enhancing their capabilities.

I suspect it’s been going on since Day 2 in the NFL.

Moderate use of anabolic steroids is not much of a health risk. Especially when monitored with regular blood work. Obviously, when using like a Mr. Olympia competitor it’s a different story.

[fansince'76]

Yeah, who am I to doubt the bona fides of the exalted St. Brady? After all, he's the GOAT! It's perfectly plausible after a century+ of other QBs fighting and losing to Father Time by their late 30s/ early 40s that Brady and his quack, err, I mean crack trainer Guerrero would come along and finally figure it all out and that he would still be on cruise control in his mid-40s....

I couldn’t care less. I think the sanctimonious hand wringing by many on PEDs is ridiculous. Looking at how quickly guys return from major injury, remake their bodies in record time, simply recover from rigorous training to do it all again a day or so later, and on and on. The circumstantial evidence is there that a ton of guys are enhancing their capabilities.

I suspect it’s been going on since Day 2 in the NFL.

While I believe it may have been that way at one time, I honestly don't think it is now. The vast majority of NFL players who actually do have to pee in a cup on a regular basis face some pretty severe penalties if they get popped on a UA for PEDs - a 4-game unpaid suspension for the first offense and escalating penalties for subsequent offenses, plus the (remote) potential of federal law enforcement getting involved, depending on the particulars of a player's case.

[stillers4me]

I think he made a deal with the devil.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[Mojouw]

Yeah, who am I to doubt the bona fides of the exalted St. Brady? After all, he's the GOAT! It's perfectly plausible after a century+ of other QBs fighting and losing to Father Time by their late 30s/ early 40s that Brady and his quack, err, I mean crack trainer Guerrero would come along and finally figure it all out and that he would still be on cruise control in his mid-40s....




While I believe it may have been that way at one time, I honestly don't think it is now. The vast majority of NFL players who actually do have to pee in a cup on a regular basis face some pretty severe penalties if they get popped on a UA for PEDs - a 4-game unpaid suspension for the first offense and escalating penalties for subsequent offenses, plus the (remote) potential of federal law enforcement getting involved, depending on the particulars of a player's case.

That assumes the NFL actually even has tests for the stuff these guys are taking.

Testing is always way behind the PEDs.

[willy]

Im not going to say if Brady is or isn't using because I don't know. Am I suspicious? Yes. But as far as Bonds goes lets no forget the guy stuck out like a sore thumb, or more specifically like a swollen head.

Can Steroids Enlarge Your Head?

What a change in hat size might mean for Barry Bonds.

BY MICHELLE TSAI
NOV 19, 20076:27 PM
[COLOR=hsla(var(--txt-color-hsl),0.85)]Barry Bonds[/COLOR][COLOR=hsla(var(--txt-color-hsl),0.6)][/COLOR]
TWEETSHARECOMMENT


Following the federal indictment of Barry Bonds for perjury and obstruction of justice last week, media reports cited the baseball player’s refusal to “admit that steroids contributed to his swollen head and bloated physique,” and drew a line from his alleged use of performance-enhancing drugs to his “noticeably bigger” skull. Can doping really make your head get bigger?

Yes, but steroids can’t. Although much of Bonds’ testimony dealt with anabolic steroids, he is also charged with having lied about taking human growth hormones. And HGH can indeed affect the size of your noggin. The hormone, which is produced by the pituitary gland, normally stimulates bone and tissue growth throughout the body. If there’s too much of it, the body starts to develop an abnormal amount of flesh and bone. This affects the entire body to some degree, but in some places the chemical receptors tend to be especially sensitive. In an adult, very large doses of HGH can cause the skull to thicken and the forehead and eyebrow ridge to become especially prominent. Hands and feet also grow out of proportion with the rest of the body.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...w-in-size.html

[steel striker]

To me Brady looks younger now than when he was a young player.

[saturdaysarebetter]

I'm sure much of that record came when he was coaching the Browns. He won 10 games with Matt Cassel as his qb when Brady was hurt.

[DesertSteel]

I'm sure much of that record came when he was coaching the Browns. He won 10 games with Matt Cassel as his qb when Brady was hurt.

Yes, he is a very impressive 33-32 in the four seasons in NE without Brady, including the 11-5 Cassel season.

[cubanstogie]

Sure, and Brady is a “system qb”. That erroneous opinion was shut down last couple of years. I imagine as much as I hate to that the Belichick ungrateness will be dispelled as well over next few years. Does Bradshaw or Noll get credit for 70’s dynasty.

[DesertSteel]

Sure, and Brady is a “system qb”. That erroneous opinion was shut down last couple of years. I imagine as much as I hate to that the Belichick ungrateness will be dispelled as well over next few years. Does Bradshaw or Noll get credit for 70’s dynasty.

Well for one thing, no one ever accused Bradshaw of being the GOAT.

[Fire Goodell]

Having Brady as your qb makes the job a lot easier

[cubanstogie]

Having Brady as your qb makes the job a lot easier

Of course, but up until 2 years ago Brady was a system QB on this forum, and Belicheat was the reason for success. Now all of a sudden Belichick is not a great coach. Maybe Kraft was reason for success. Lol.

[cubanstogie]

Well for one thing, no one ever accused Bradshaw of being the GOAT.

But Noll is considered as one of the greats, when Bradshaw retired his record under .500 without him. When your HOF QB retires pretty rare to have same expectations the following years IMO. Steve Young and Rodgers were an aberration. I’m not a Belichick fan at all but still consider him best coach over last 20 years.

[DesertSteel]

But Noll is considered as one of the greats, when Bradshaw retired his record under .500 without him. When your HOF QB retires pretty rare to have same expectations the following years IMO. Steve Young and Rodgers were an aberration. I’m not a Belichick fan at all but still consider him best coach over last 20 years.

And Belichick is also one of the greats. Not the GOAT but just of of the greats, along with Noll, Walsh, Lombardi, Landry and others.