If we do draft a QB...

[teegre]

There are six prospects that most of us have been discussing. I know that we already have the "The Future QB of the Steelers is..." thread, but since we are now officially in Draft season, I figure that we need a new & improved place to keep tabs on the prospects (because, a lot of data in that thread is buried in a year's worth of posts).

Sam Howell, UNC
Kenny Pickett, Pitt
Carson Strong, Nevada
Desmond Ridder, Cincinnati
Matt Corral, Ole Miss
Bailey Zappe, Western Kentucky

(Malik Willis has been mentioned, but most do not want him.)

In obvious passing downs (3rd-&-long), Howell is the best (12 yards per attempt) at throwing past the goal-to-gain. Pickett, Zappe, and Strong are right behind (9 yards), but Ridder and Corral dump it off a lot (3 yards).

Considering our O-line, here is a stat that we need to look at: sack rates. Zappe gets sacked on 2.3% of his dropbacks; Zappe gets the ball out FAST!!! On the other end of the spectrum, Howell takes nearly six times as many sacks!!! Maybe that is because Howell is running around trying to make things happen (a la Ben in the late 2000s), but it is something to take notice of. The others are somewhere around 5% - 6% sack rate (which is normal). Oh, and Willis is even worse Howell at taking sacks.

Colbert has watched Howell numerous times. He has obviously seen Pickett up close. I know he has attended other games and watched many of the other QBs (but again, that is buried somewhere in the posts made in October and November of this year). If you remember (or are good at searching the forum), please post those here.

[Mojouw]

The more I hear/read about all these guys...the more I start to get into a state of "like" with Carson Strong. He may have the best arm of the group....but he may also be standing in concrete back there...so there is that...

I just think this offense looks better (even with Canada still in place) with a QB that can just launch the dang ball a country mile or throw it through a brick wall...but I have a long-standing overvaluation of the usefulness of arm strength. FWIW, it is why I liked Ben the best of the 2004 draft class. But there is a long and not very distinguished list of other QB prospects that I really liked (Paxton Lynch anyone?) because they had the ability to throw the snot out of the ball.

My new "idea" is to just take whichever of these dirtballs makes it to the second round pick and call it a day.

[Born2Steel]

There are six prospects that most of us have been discussing. I know that we already have the "The Future QB of the Steelers is..." thread, but since we are now officially in Draft season, I figure that we need a new & improved place to keep tabs on the prospects (because, a lot of data in that thread is buried in a year's worth of posts).

Sam Howell, UNC
Kenny Pickett, Pitt
Carson Strong, Nevada
Desmond Ridder, Cincinnati
Matt Corral, Ole Miss
Bailey Zappe, Western Kentucky

(Malik Willis has been mentioned, but most do not want him.)

In obvious passing downs (3rd-&-long), Howell is the best (12 yards per attempt) at throwing past the goal-to-gain. Pickett, Zappe, and Strong are right behind (9 yards), but Ridder and Corral dump it off a lot (3 yards).

Considering our O-line, here is a stat that we need to look at: sack rates. Zappe gets sacked on 2.3% of his dropbacks; Zappe gets the ball out FAST!!! On the other end of the spectrum, Howell takes nearly six times as many sacks!!! Maybe that is because Howell is running around trying to make things happen (a la Ben in the late 2000s), but it is something to take notice of. The others are somewhere around 5% - 6% sack rate (which is normal). Oh, and Willis is even worse Howell at taking sacks.

Colbert has watched Howell numerous times. He has obviously seen Pickett up close. I know he has attended other games and watched many of the other QBs (but again, that is buried somewhere in the posts made in October and November of this year). If you remember (or are good at searching the forum), please post those here.

The only QBs on this list I was able to see with any regularity over their college careers are Corral and Ridder. Neither really did anything that was overly impressive, IMO. But then again, the college QBs I have been impressed with haven't done much in the NFL either. So basically,

Of this list however, I like Desmond Ridder over the rest due to experience, size, mobility, arm strength, accuracy, and winning percentage.

As I posted in at least one other thread I think the Steelers will go with Rudolph(Rude-Dog), a veteran FA, and a rookie draft pick in 2022/23. If it doesn't work out they will 'rinse/repeat' with draft pick, veteran FA(which could be Rudolph at this point), and new rookie. 'Rinse/Repeat' until they get it right. Maybe not every season but every 3rd draft process at least.

In order of 'my' draft choices at QB....
1. Desmond Ridder - reasons listed above. Plus 7/7 traits on Parcell's list.
2. Kenny Pickett - 52 games experience in college, 62.4% Comp rate on close to 1700 attempts for over 12k yards. 7/7 traits.
3. Matt Corral/Sam Howell - Seems to be better overall offensive weapons than the rest of the list. Size is the main problem for me. Both only 37 games experience.
4. Carson Strong - I love the size, arm strength, accuracy. Strong will need to pass physicals before I would even consider him though.
5. Bailey Zappe/Malik Willis - Transfers without enough snaps to really get a true evaluation on. At least for me.

- - - Updated - - -

The more I hear/read about all these guys...the more I start to get into a state of "like" with Carson Strong. He may have the best arm of the group....but he may also be standing in concrete back there...so there is that...

I just think this offense looks better (even with Canada still in place) with a QB that can just launch the dang ball a country mile or throw it through a brick wall...but I have a long-standing overvaluation of the usefulness of arm strength. FWIW, it is why I liked Ben the best of the 2004 draft class. But there is a long and not very distinguished list of other QB prospects that I really liked (Paxton Lynch anyone?) because they had the ability to throw the snot out of the ball.

My new "idea" is to just take whichever of these dirtballs makes it to the second round pick and call it a day.

My QB eval record stand at the back of the line as well. It's not an easy read or more teams would have better 'luck' at it. Although, if looking for your next franchise QB and you think maybe player A is it, take him at 20. At least you get 5 seasons to figure it out.

[DesertSteel]

There’s 9 teams in the market for a QB in slots 1-19. The problem is, there’s only a couple QBs that merit a top 20 pick. If they’re insistent on taking one this year, I’d be in favor of letting one drop to us in R2-3. Then I sign a FA like Mariota or trade for Minshew.

[Born2Steel]

There’s 9 teams in the market for a QB in slots 1-19. The problem is, there’s only a couple QBs that merit a top 20 pick. If they’re insistent on taking one this year, I’d be in favor of letting one drop to us in R2-3. Then I sign a FA like Mariota or trade for Minshew.

If he's not there at 20 do you really think he's going to be there at 52? QB is the 1 position you are allowed to reach on. Especially when you don't have one. Ben fell to 11 after at least 2-3 QB hungry teams passed on him. I would rather swing and miss than wonder what could have 'BEN'.

[steelreserve]

There’s 9 teams in the market for a QB in slots 1-19. The problem is, there’s only a couple QBs that merit a top 20 pick. If they’re insistent on taking one this year, I’d be in favor of letting one drop to us in R2-3. Then I sign a FA like Mariota or trade for Minshew.

Yeah, this is looking like a tough year to be searching for a QB. A logjam of teams looking for one, and not too many guys that stand out as worth trading two first-rounders to move up. Drafting if they fall to you maybe, but they probably won't, and it's probably hard to justify making a move with what we'd have to give up at #20, too.

From the sound of things a while back, it was going to be Pickett or bust for us, but I doubt now that he'll last beyond the top 5, top 10 at most. Even if that's overdrafting, someone will be desperate enough to pull the trigger.

Plus I'm less than thrilled about a guy who bailed out of his team's biggest game of the year, and subsequently cost them that game. Like, ok, maybe I understand if you had a 9-4 season and you don't want to put your body on the line to face the fourth-place Pac-12 team in the Sun Bowl. But that game was a pretty big deal, get your ass out there and try to win, you asshole.

[Rotorhead]

If we draft a QB, my pick would be Ridder, but only if he falls to us, his only downside, that I have read (I don’t have time to watch college ball) is his accuracy at times. I feel that can be fixed with a good offseason program with a good QB coach.

[Dwinsgames]

I'm sold on Howell , I think he gives you what today's NFL needs , a decent enough arm good ball security and the ability to make things happen with his legs either by design or out of necessity ...

he is a guy you can build around and be a winner with pretty quickly IMO and we have a lot of young pieces to make that transition a smooth one

[Steeler-in-west]

The more I hear/read about all these guys...the more I start to get into a state of "like" with Carson Strong. He may have the best arm of the group....but he may also be standing in concrete back there...so there is that...

I just think this offense looks better (even with Canada still in place) with a QB that can just launch the dang ball a country mile or throw it through a brick wall...but I have a long-standing overvaluation of the usefulness of arm strength. FWIW, it is why I liked Ben the best of the 2004 draft class. But there is a long and not very distinguished list of other QB prospects that I really liked (Paxton Lynch anyone?) because they had the ability to throw the snot out of the ball.

My new "idea" is to just take whichever of these dirtballs makes it to the second round pick and call it a day.

now I understand a little better why you like Haskins, to me Haskins, Paxton Lynch, Ryan leaf, they’re all in the same category. All arm strength- physical ability but little else. We need someone who is maybe not the most physically talented but smart and willing to put the work in - a film junkie

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I'm sold on Howell , I think he gives you what today's NFL needs , a decent enough arm good ball security and the ability to make things happen with his legs either by design or out of necessity ...

he is a guy you can build around and be a winner with pretty quickly IMO and we have a lot of young pieces to make that transition a smooth one

shhhhhh.....dont let the word get out.

The pundits have 4 or 5 of the other QB's in the draft ahead of him, but I think there is a good chance that he is drafted before the Steelers pick at #20. Post season evaluations may change things a lot.

[Mojouw]

now I understand a little better why you like Haskins, to me Haskins, Paxton Lynch, Ryan leaf, they’re all in the same category. All arm strength- physical ability but little else. We need someone who is maybe not the most physically talented but smart and willing to put the work in - a film junkie

I actually agree with that as well. But, in theory, you can teach a guy to watch film and read a defense. You can’t teach him to have a stronger arm.

Rookie Ben likely had terrible practice, film study, and work habits. Heck, most of his pass plays that entire season were roll outs with only half field reads. But he had a cannon for an arm, the ability to walk right out of tackles, and no fear.

Steelers taught him (and apparently it was a struggle) how to play QB. But no one could’ve taught the arm, the pump fake, and the ability to be impossible to tackle.

Long story short, I’d rather roll the dice that I can teach the mental and the guy has elite physical traits.

Watch Josh Allen now and then read his pre draft stuff. He’s not the same guy. Except for the astounding physical gifts.

[DesertSteel]

When I watched Howell this season (2-3 times), I got the same "meh" that I got when I watched Justin Herbert in his last year at Oregon............ so............ maybe you two are on to something.........

[RunNGun]

In terms of a combination of mobility and arm strength...there is no one more talented than Malik Willis, imo. He makes the "wow" throws that really grab your attention, but the question may be how well can he go through his reads and learn an NFL offense?

It's fairly difficult to judge Willis with the level of competition he was playing with and against, but if you're looking for a gifted arm, as well as athlete...Willis fits the bill, imo.

https://youtu.be/sIB5b3SyPCg
Highlights ^^

I especially like Willis if we can grab him in the 2nd round and go BPA in rd 1. He may need a year to sit, but I like the idea of rolling with Rudolph and playing Willis sparingly on the way.

[Dwinsgames]

When I watched Howell this season (2-3 times), I got the same "meh" that I got when I watched Justin Herbert in his last year at Oregon............ so............ maybe you two are on to something.........

this season wasnt his showcase year , lot of young guys with little experience that didnt hold up their end of the deal very well ....

his Fresh . Soph year were really impressive ...

and got to love this breakdown on footwork and base https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s64p...el=TheQBSchool

[teegre]

The more I hear/read about all these guys...the more I start to get into a state of "like" with Carson Strong. He may have the best arm of the group....but he may also be standing in concrete back there...so there is that...

I just think this offense looks better (even with Canada still in place) with a QB that can just launch the dang ball a country mile or throw it through a brick wall...but I have a long-standing overvaluation of the usefulness of arm strength. FWIW, it is why I liked Ben the best of the 2004 draft class. But there is a long and not very distinguished list of other QB prospects that I really liked (Paxton Lynch anyone?) because they had the ability to throw the snot out of the ball.

My new "idea" is to just take whichever of these dirtballs makes it to the second round pick and call it a day.

Strong was immobile due to recovering from a knee surgery. If he gets back to 100% (an NFL doctor said that the kid will be healed by the start of training camp), he would probably leapfrog the rest of the pack (from R3 to top ten).

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Yeah, this is looking like a tough year to be searching for a QB. A logjam of teams looking for one, and not too many guys that stand out as worth trading two first-rounders to move up. Drafting if they fall to you maybe, but they probably won't, and it's probably hard to justify making a move with what we'd have to give up at #20, too.

From the sound of things a while back, it was going to be Pickett or bust for us, but I doubt now that he'll last beyond the top 5, top 10 at most. Even if that's overdrafting, someone will be desperate enough to pull the trigger.

Plus I'm less than thrilled about a guy who bailed out of his team's biggest game of the year, and subsequently cost them that game. Like, ok, maybe I understand if you had a 9-4 season and you don't want to put your body on the line to face the fourth-place Pac-12 team in the Sun Bowl. But that game was a pretty big deal, get your ass out there and try to win, you asshole.

I haven't seen Corral play much but like him just for the fact he said no way am i siting out and not letting my teammates down. He actually did get hurt in that bowl game and risk his career.

[teegre]

The only QBs on this list I was able to see with any regularity over their college careers are Corral and Ridder. Neither really did anything that was overly impressive, IMO. But then again, the college QBs I have been impressed with haven't done much in the NFL either. So basically,

Of this list however, I like Desmond Ridder over the rest due to experience, size, mobility, arm strength, accuracy, and winning percentage.

As I posted in at least one other thread I think the Steelers will go with Rudolph(Rude-Dog), a veteran FA, and a rookie draft pick in 2022/23. If it doesn't work out they will 'rinse/repeat' with draft pick, veteran FA(which could be Rudolph at this point), and new rookie. 'Rinse/Repeat' until they get it right. Maybe not every season but every 3rd draft process at least.

In order of 'my' draft choices at QB....
1. Desmond Ridder - reasons listed above. Plus 7/7 traits on Parcell's list.
2. Kenny Pickett - 52 games experience in college, 62.4% Comp rate on close to 1700 attempts for over 12k yards. 7/7 traits.
3. Matt Corral/Sam Howell - Seems to be better overall offensive weapons than the rest of the list. Size is the main problem for me. Both only 37 games experience.
4. Carson Strong - I love the size, arm strength, accuracy. Strong will need to pass physicals before I would even consider him though.
5. Bailey Zappe/Malik Willis - Transfers without enough snaps to really get a true evaluation on. At least for me.

I, too, think we wait until 2023. But, "if" we go QB in this draft, here are my thoughts on the prosepcts.

Ridder looked bad in the NCAA playoffs. I think he drops to Day 2.

Pickett reminds me of a less-talented Joe Burrow. He progressed each season: decent, then good, then really good. It took him five years to get there, and he is about as good as he will ever get, but I do like that he got better each & every year. I think he is gone by 20, and I would NOT trade up for him (nor for any QB in this draft).

Howell seems to be the most connect to the Steelers. If he is there at 20, I think they strongly consider taking him.

Corral's knee injury will drop him out of the top ten... maybe we get him in R2.

On the flip side, Strong's knee recovery might have him moving up from Day 2 into the top ten.

Zappe could be this year's Davis Mills, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott (Day 3 pick who starts in the NFL).


Personally, if we take a QB in R1, I trade back to 32. That way you get the fifth-year option, and also acquire an extra pick or two in order to fill some other holes.

[RunNGun]

A name that I haven't seen mentioned on this forum is Aqeel Glass. He's strictly a pocket passer, but he has great pocket presence and is accurate with underneath throws, which fits what the Steelers have been doing this season, unfortunately. Glass has solid, but not elite arm strength. One knock on him I noticed was he kind of has a slow release. Glass will probably be a 2nd-3rd round pick.

[teegre]

A name that I haven't seen mentioned on this forum is Aqeel Glass. He's strictly a pocket passer, but he has great pocket presence and is accurate with underneath throws, which fits what the Steelers have been doing this season, unfortunately. Glass has solid, but not elite arm strength. One knock on him I noticed was he kind of has a slow release. Glass will probably be a 2nd-3rd round pick.

Good call. I mentioned him (somewhere) as a Day 3 / URFA priority.

[Dwinsgames]

I feel like Glass = Zach Mettenburger 2.0

[Rotorhead]

I understand both sides, (all the tools no brains and all the brains no tolls) but I guess if we aren’t picking in the top 10 I would rather get more brains than tools. At least a smart QB can make his way to a better then average career, there are plenty of them around. There are also the guys with cannons and run 200MPH but never figure out how to read a defense (looking at you Lamar Jackson). Would you rather have Lamar or Tannehill? I would take Tannehill.

[Mojouw]

I understand both sides, (all the tools no brains and all the brains no tolls) but I guess if we aren’t picking in the top 10 I would rather get more brains than tools. At least a smart QB can make his way to a better then average career, there are plenty of them around. There are also the guys with cannons and run 200MPH but never figure out how to read a defense (looking at you Lamar Jackson). Would you rather have Lamar or Tannehill? I would take Tannehill.

Ok. But would you rather have Jackson or Hodges? If that is not a fair comparison, Jackson or Rudolph? Still not a first round to first round comp, so what about Jackson to Mac Jones?

Personally, I would take Lamar Jackson in each of those choices without even really having to think about it.

I get what you are saying...but I am having a hard time coming up with the list of guys that had long careers without a significant number of physical traits...

[Born2Steel]

I, too, think we wait until 2023. But, "if" we go QB in this draft, here are my thoughts on the prosepcts.

Ridder looked bad in the NCAA playoffs. I think he drops to Day 2.

Pickett reminds me of a less-talented Joe Burrow. He progressed each season: decent, then good, then really good. It took him five years to get there, and he is about as good as he will ever get, but I do like that he got better each & every year. I think he is gone by 20, and I would NOT trade up for him (nor for any QB in this draft).

Howell seems to be the most connect to the Steelers. If he is there at 20, I think they strongly consider taking him.

Corral's knee injury will drop him out of the top ten... maybe we get him in R2.

On the flip side, Strong's knee recovery might have him moving up from Day 2 into the top ten.

Zappe could be this year's Davis Mills, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott (Day 3 pick who starts in the NFL).


Personally, if we take a QB in R1, I trade back to 32. That way you get the fifth-year option, and also acquire an extra pick or two in order to fill some other holes.

Well, I actually don't think we do wait until 2023. It's QB and we have none. Unless being 'the man' all preseason makes some monumental changes in MR that is. A FA pickup is likely to be of the level of Chad Henne/Chase Daniel. Quality in the QB room and emergency backup on the sidelines. All signs point to Colbert likes Sam Howell and if there at 20 I would wager that is the pick.

Ridder in the CFP....Saban had 2 weeks to prepare. Exactly how many QBs have looked good vs Bama? I'm not holding that game against him at all. If he drops that means he will be there at 20.

I watched a lot of Matt Corral. I just feel his target was decided pre-snap and if that was covered he ran. Kiffen does a good job with finding the right mismatch for his offense. I see Mariota 2.0.

I have not watched any of Sam Howell but from reading up on this class he seems to me to be about the same guy as Matt Corral.

Let's face it, there are probably 5-6 QBs in this draft that will be on everyone's top50 board. If we don't take our guy at 20, he won't be there at pick 52. Swing or no swing?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

this season wasnt his showcase year , lot of young guys with little experience that didnt hold up their end of the deal very well ....

his Fresh . Soph year were really impressive ...

and got to love this breakdown on footwork and base https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s64p...el=TheQBSchool

Please, stop it. If too many start talking about him, he will climb up boards and be gone before 20.

His footwork and base is the Anti-Mason Rudolph. He carries out a RPO mesh and flips his hips and feet so well to throw passes that its annoyingly good to watch. Same way that his feet follow his eyes thru his reads.

Dont show any film from 2020 where he had Dazz Newsome to throw to. Please let fans continue to think that Malik Willis and Desmond Ridder will be good NFL QB's. You and I are the only ones that need to know.

[Steeler-in-west]

I actually agree with that as well. But, in theory, you can teach a guy to watch film and read a defense. You can’t teach him to have a stronger arm.

Rookie Ben likely had terrible practice, film study, and work habits. Heck, most of his pass plays that entire season were roll outs with only half field reads. But he had a cannon for an arm, the ability to walk right out of tackles, and no fear.

Steelers taught him (and apparently it was a struggle) how to play QB. But no one could’ve taught the arm, the pump fake, and the ability to be impossible to tackle.

Long story short, I’d rather roll the dice that I can teach the mental and the guy has elite physical traits.

Watch Josh Allen now and then read his pre draft stuff. He’s not the same guy. Except for the astounding physical gifts.

I understand, we did roll the dice on Haskins and lynch and so far nothing. how long do you wait for haskins to get it? I would guess this off-season and training camp are his last chance. Guys like him either the light bulb goes on and start working hard and vault to starter or they wash out of the league completely. I don’t think he’s going to remain in backup status.

I would look for a guy who has mental fortitude, can bounce back from a bad play or game, that shows willingness to learn. I just wouldn’t zero in only on physical prowess. One guy that gets lost in Steelers history is David Woodley, not particularly talented physically but smart, and underrated, if only his career didn’t get cut short.

Maybe Ben wasn’t the model student like Brady or Manning but he was smart as well. Guys like lynch and Haskins? Back of the class….

[Mojouw]

I understand, we did roll the dice on Haskins and lynch and so far nothing. how long do you wait for haskins to get it? I would guess this off-season and training camp are his last chance. Guys like him either the light bulb goes on and start working hard and vault to starter or they wash out of the league completely. I don’t think he’s going to remain in backup status.

I would look for a guy who has mental fortitude, can bounce back from a bad play or game, that shows willingness to learn. I just wouldn’t zero in only on physical prowess. One guy that gets lost in Steelers history is David Woodley, not particularly talented physically but smart, and underrated, if only his career didn’t get cut short.

Maybe Ben wasn’t the model student like Brady or Manning but he was smart as well. Guys like lynch and Haskins? Back of the class….

You’re not wrong. And we basically agree. I think. I do believe that Ben was back of the class for a bit early in his career. It was masked by his amazing on field success.

Even after the 08 SB against the Cards, I remember reading a Peter King piece where he interviewed Ben about that last drive. King talked about how other QBs would discuss what they saw, their reads, etc. Ben was basically like, I ran around and made plays. The guys made plays. We won.

I’m not knocking Ben. Far from it. Just highlighting that guys who have always been blessed with abilities that put them a cut above often take awhile to merge that with the mental stuff. They have never had to work that way and often have no idea how to even begin.

Now, for Ben, he figured it out. Lynch did not. Haskins? Who knows but, like you said, he gets another several months to see if he can pull it together.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Corral's knee injury will drop him out of the top ten... maybe we get him in R2.

On the flip side, Strong's knee recovery might have him moving up from Day 2 into the top ten.
.

Did Corral injure his knee? I thought he rolled an ankle in the bowl game, but x-rays were negative.

Carson Strong has the knee history, but as far as I know he is still scheduled to play in Mobile, AB.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Did Corral injure his knee? I thought he rolled an ankle in the bowl game, but x-rays were negative.

Carson Strong has the knee history, but as far as I know he is still scheduled to play in Mobile, AB.

I was watching the game and think it may have been a ankle and can't remember but glad it is not a serious injury. Again he has moxy and a player I would want on my team just for that fact.

[teegre]

Did Corral injure his knee? I thought he rolled an ankle in the bowl game, but x-rays were negative.

Carson Strong has the knee history, but as far as I know he is still scheduled to play in Mobile, AB.

That is correct. My bad. Corral only suffered an ankle injury and the x-rays were indeed negative.

Yes, nothing has changed with Strong. His injured knee injury is healing nicely, and doctors say he’ll be back to 100% by training camp.

- - - Updated - - -

Swing or no swing?

I’m in the non-swing camp.

But, the idea of this thread is that we are absolutely swinging, and if we swing, for whom is it going to be. All signs point to it being Howell.

[Dwinsgames]

I dunno rumors of gay midget porn found on Howells laptop ... teams should shy away NOW ...







this is