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Thread: Black Monday 2022

  1. #31
    Well there you have it... Array title="NCSteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> NCSteeler's Avatar

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    And down goes Joe Judge... They took their time but seemed like an easy choice

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    An interesting thought is ...."who are some interim coaches that got the full time job the following year and were successful?" Jim Caldwell? Art Shell? Jason Garrett? Mike Tice?
    Damn Mike Tice, where did he end up

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    An interesting thought is ...."who are some interim coaches that got the full time job the following year and were successful?" Jim Caldwell? Art Shell? Jason Garrett? Mike Tice?
    I actually spent a bit looking at this question.

    Coryell and Marv Levy were the best outcomes.

    The rest and more recent? Not as good.

  4. #34
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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I actually spent a bit looking at this question.

    Coryell and Marv Levy were the best outcomes.

    The rest and more recent? Not as good.
    A good result by the interim I guess doesn't make him a good coach. Just the relief from a bad coach situation and a steady hand can probably turn around a terrible club for a short period of time

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    A good result by the interim I guess doesn't make him a good coach. Just the relief from a bad coach situation and a steady hand can probably turn around a terrible club for a short period of time

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    Great point.

    It’s all just a revolving door anyways. It’s all who you know and who gets the owners ear.

    Not much of this is a meritocracy. Being someone kid is now enough

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I actually spent a bit looking at this question.

    Coryell and Marv Levy were the best outcomes.

    The rest and more recent? Not as good.
    Yeah, I think a lot of teams management reward interim Head Coaches for getting thru a difficult situation and sometimes feel ..."this coach earned a shot at being the full time HC". But history has shown that the majority of them just end up moving on from that guy in a couple seasons anyways.

    I think the Raiders need to look at who is the best coach they can get going forward.

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Yeah, I think a lot of teams management reward interim Head Coaches for getting thru a difficult situation and sometimes feel ..."this coach earned a shot at being the full time HC". But history has shown that the majority of them just end up moving on from that guy in a couple seasons anyways.

    I think the Raiders need to look at who is the best coach they can get going forward.
    Especially if prior to getting handed the team in a crisis they weren’t viewed as a “potential head coach”.

    They’re likely going to look “good” because even mediocrity is going to be an improvement over whatever was going on prior to the “interim”.

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Especially if prior to getting handed the team in a crisis they weren’t viewed as a “potential head coach”.

    They’re likely going to look “good” because even mediocrity is going to be an improvement over whatever was going on prior to the “interim”.
    If you’re given a “temporary job” and you perform above standard or achieve goals of the job why wouldn’t you get a shot at the job permanently? Every situation is different but in the Raiders case even if they lose to Bungles I think the dude deserves a shot. If they win a game or 2 can’t see how they’d hire outside.

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by cubanstogie View Post
    If you’re given a “temporary job” and you perform above standard or achieve goals of the job why wouldn’t you get a shot at the job permanently? Every situation is different but in the Raiders case even if they lose to Bungles I think the dude deserves a shot. If they win a game or 2 can’t see how they’d hire outside.
    Sure. But if I owned a team and some random guy on my staff was named interim HC and had success, he’d need to “prove” in the interview how he achieved that success and what his plan was to sustain it.

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Sure. But if I owned a team and some random guy on my staff was named interim HC and had success, he’d need to “prove” in the interview how he achieved that success and what his plan was to sustain it.
    Agreed, I would think he’d have some credibility in interview with all the drama he dealt with. It was almost on par with AB drama. But yeah front office would have to be on board with his plan going forward. I just get tired of recycling old head coaches. Now Bienemy different story, he should get a HC job.

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by cubanstogie View Post
    Agreed, I would think he’d have some credibility in interview with all the drama he dealt with. It was almost on par with AB drama. But yeah front office would have to be on board with his plan going forward. I just get tired of recycling old head coaches. Now Bienemy different story, he should get a HC job.
    Totally agree!! The coaching carousel is insane. Why NFL teams screw this up so often is bizarre to watch. They watch others make mistakes and then they just do the same and expect different outcome?

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Totally agree!! The coaching carousel is insane. Why NFL teams screw this up so often is bizarre to watch. They watch others make mistakes and then they just do the same and expect different outcome?
    Sometimes its ownership and ego. Wealthy men that dont know football as well as they think they know football, go out and hire guys because they got some good advice from some other wealthy guy they know in the football circles that doesnt know as much as he thinks he knows.

    The topic of Adam Gase was covered by somebody like Scott Pioli or Lewis Riddick as to how he got the Jets job after being a failure in Miami. It came down to the very case of somebody telling Jets ownership that Gase is a good young coach and he wasnt in a good situation the first time around, so he got hired for the Jets job.

    Its Mark Davis money and he can do what he wants with it. Rich Bisaccia was Special Teams coach for Gruden in Tampa 20 years ago and Assistant Head Coach in Tampa and a bunch of other places. If Gruden's emails never were unearthed, he most likely would not have been in the running for any other Head Coaching jobs, just like he hasnt in the past 20 yeas in the NFL. Good luck to him in the search process.

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Sometimes its ownership and ego. Wealthy men that dont know football as well as they think they know football, go out and hire guys because they got some good advice from some other wealthy guy they know in the football circles that doesnt know as much as he thinks he knows.

    The topic of Adam Gase was covered by somebody like Scott Pioli or Lewis Riddick as to how he got the Jets job after being a failure in Miami. It came down to the very case of somebody telling Jets ownership that Gase is a good young coach and he wasnt in a good situation the first time around, so he got hired for the Jets job.

    Its Mark Davis money and he can do what he wants with it. Rich Bisaccia was Special Teams coach for Gruden in Tampa 20 years ago and Assistant Head Coach in Tampa and a bunch of other places. If Gruden's emails never were unearthed, he most likely would not have been in the running for any other Head Coaching jobs, just like he hasnt in the past 20 yeas in the NFL. Good luck to him in the search process.
    Pretty much.

    Read some “deep dives” into the Vikings, Bears, and Giants process for most recent hirings and firings. It’s just astonishing to me how dumb these owners are about the two most important things they can do for their football team - hiring HC and GM.

    Then the shocking amount of assistant coaching hires because of family relationships.

    No wonder so many teams do dumb stuff on Sundays. They’re doing it all week as well.

  14. #44
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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Nepotism is rampant in the NFL. It's how you get coaches kid who coaches getting DUI .

    Your dad being a good coach has nothing to do with you except he's trying to get you paid.

    If I was an owner I would ban it from my team. No more than a mere I yern and then they can move onto to another team

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    Nepotism is rampant in the NFL. It's how you get coaches kid who coaches getting DUI .

    Your dad being a good coach has nothing to do with you except he's trying to get you paid.

    If I was an owner I would ban it from my team. No more than a mere I yern and then they can move onto to another team

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    It’s ridiculous because there are TONS of football coaches out there. Many of them are looking to advance their careers. But they don’t have that NFL connection so they never get a look.

    Meanwhile Coach A hires Coach B’s kid who has no experience. As long as he doesn’t get arrested, Coach B’s kid is now in the “system”. He’s an NFL “guy” now. And he will keep getting hired and fired. Results are not important. Because he’s a “proven NFL coach”.

    At the same time there’s probably some guy at Outer Nowhere A&M that can coach circles around nepotism boy and he will never even get an interview.

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Nepotism in the NFL? Never happen.


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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    Nepotism is rampant in the NFL. It's how you get coaches kid who coaches getting DUI .

    Your dad being a good coach has nothing to do with you except he's trying to get you paid.

    If I was an owner I would ban it from my team. No more than a mere I yern and then they can move onto to another team

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    Sure, we have no idea if Reid's kid devoted as much time to being a coach or if his dad was taking him to work and try to get him on a straight path.

    There are guys like Rob and Rex Ryan, Kyle Shanahan, etc that were around the game from an early age, love the game, have tons of coaching experience and were just fortunate they had a way into the profession, rather than go be a grad asst at some small school somewhere.

    Sure there are cases of nepotism where the kid got a break and isnt good or isnt that passionate about the job as other non family members. Its just like some successful family businesses in private enterprise. But there are some that are good at it and as a coach you want people around you that know what you are doing and understand your culture and how you go about things. In a lot of cases family checks those boxes.

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Sure, we have no idea if Reid's kid devoted as much time to being a coach or if his dad was taking him to work and try to get him on a straight path.

    There are guys like Rob and Rex Ryan, Kyle Shanahan, etc that were around the game from an early age, love the game, have tons of coaching experience and were just fortunate they had a way into the profession, rather than go be a grad asst at some small school somewhere.

    Sure there are cases of nepotism where the kid got a break and isnt good or isnt that passionate about the job as other non family members. Its just like some successful family businesses in private enterprise. But there are some that are good at it and as a coach you want people around you that know what you are doing and understand your culture and how you go about things. In a lot of cases family checks those boxes.
    Contrast the path that Rex Ryan took: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Ryan

    With that of Klint Kubiak: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klint_Kubiak

    Seems that both got a start because of their names...but Klint certainly got some shortcuts...

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    Nepotism is rampant in the NFL. It's how you get coaches kid who coaches getting DUI .

    Your dad being a good coach has nothing to do with you except he's trying to get you paid.

    If I was an owner I would ban it from my team. No more than a mere I yern and then they can move onto to another team

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    Born on 3rd base, acting like they hit a triple.

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Born on 3rd base, acting like they hit a triple.
    Pearl Jam reference?


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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Pearl Jam reference?
    Baseball reference, but lots of people used it. Barry Switzer said it, former Texas Governor Ann Richards said it about George Bush, but Jim Harbaugh recently used it after beating Ohio State and directed at Ryan Day.

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Baseball reference, but lots of people used it. Barry Switzer said it, former Texas Governor Ann Richards said it about George Bush, but Jim Harbaugh recently used it after beating Ohio State and directed at Ryan Day.
    Yeah that phrase goes way back. Just wanted to see where it was coming from.


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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    I like Tomlin but pending the compensation and if I could get Flores, I would definitely sit and consider it for some time…
    There isn't a bigger Tomlin critic than me but only a fool would consider replacing Tomlin with Flores. I mean, I like Flores because he drove off Minkah Firzpatrick at the beginning of his first season as coach. How does a coach mess that up? Don't know but I'm glad Flores wanted to play Minkah at CB and LB?!

    Flores pounded the table for Tua Tagovailoa and a season later is telling Tua he should have drafted Mac Jones and having screaming matches with him. The Dolphins had 3x 1st round busts in 2020. Is that a record?! Has to be.

    Flores apparently stopped communication with his own coaching staff in November. The Dolphins win streak inexplicably came during a period of time of unparalleled dysfunction created by the head coach.

    The funniest part has to be Flores thinking Mac Jones is much different than Tua is. They're basically the same QB in terms of coming in pro ready with good decision making but not having elite arm talent. Not much of a QB evaluator! Sure wouldn't want him finding Ben's heir!

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Totally agree!! The coaching carousel is insane. Why NFL teams screw this up so often is bizarre to watch. They watch others make mistakes and then they just do the same and expect different outcome?
    This is ironic considering the irritation you have towards me for pointing out Tomlin did nothing the last 10 years with Ben. If Ben had been drafted in 2011 how is he not viewed as Tony Romo or Matt Stafford?

    The Steelers have been experiencing the same outcome for a decade. Am I wrong?

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloydwoodsonjr View Post
    There isn't a bigger Tomlin critic than me but only a fool would consider replacing Tomlin with Flores. I mean, I like Flores because he drove off Minkah Firzpatrick at the beginning of his first season as coach. How does a coach mess that up? Don't know but I'm glad Flores wanted to play Minkah at CB and LB?!

    Flores pounded the table for Tua Tagovailoa and a season later is telling Tua he should have drafted Mac Jones and having screaming matches with him. The Dolphins had 3x 1st round busts in 2020. Is that a record?! Has to be.

    Flores apparently stopped communication with his own coaching staff in November. The Dolphins win streak inexplicably came during a period of time of unparalleled dysfunction created by the head coach.

    The funniest part has to be Flores thinking Mac Jones is much different than Tua is. They're basically the same QB in terms of coming in pro ready with good decision making but not having elite arm talent. Not much of a QB evaluator! Sure wouldn't want him finding Ben's heir!
    Man…everything that comes out of your fingers is just dumber than the previous.

    A. Flores didn’t drive off Minkah. Minkah wanted out long before Flores got their because the Dolphins are a mess.

    B. Flores NEVER pounded the table for Tua. He actually wanted Herbert. Ross and Grier wanted Tua.

    C. May want to check your rumor mill again there sparky about the Mac Jones “comments”.

    www.google.com

    0 for 3.

    On your way to Tomlinesque numbers…



  26. #56
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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloydwoodsonjr View Post
    This is ironic considering the irritation you have towards me for pointing out Tomlin did nothing the last 10 years with Ben. If Ben had been drafted in 2011 how is he not viewed as Tony Romo or Matt Stafford?

    The Steelers have been experiencing the same outcome for a decade. Am I wrong?
    Yes.

    But superb attempt to twist the conversation to your favorite and only talking point through false equivalence. You seem to have the tools for a great career in TV news.

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Yes.

    But superb attempt to twist the conversation to your favorite and only talking point through false equivalence. You seem to have the tools for a great career in TV news.
    And you would be a great politician. No one is more evasive. Is Tomlin underachieving year after year yes or no?

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloydwoodsonjr View Post
    And you would be a great politician. No one is more evasive. Is Tomlin underachieving year after year yes or no?
    No.

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    im half shocked Mayock is Gone in Vegas ...

    he had some bad luck with a couple high round picks being morons off the field and a couple of trades that didnt go his way because of the players being idiots , but all in all he changed that teams level of talent significantly in 3 years and made the playoffs this year with an interim HC ....

    wouldnt mind bringing him in as a 2nd to Colbert and guy in waiting ( he was drafted by the steelers many years ago so the organizational tie is there )
    Good things happen to the team that Drafts Sam Howell

    banned @Dwinsgames on Twitter , guess they really do hate conservatives

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    Re: Black Monday 2022

    So John Dorsey is still out there. Drafted some nice players in KC. Thoughts on him replacing Colbert?


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