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Thread: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Since 2004 the Steelers havent been looking for a franchise QB, they have been looking for a good #2 to back up Ben. Now they have to look for a new QB for 2022 season.
    Ok from 2004 on only then,

    Rudolph had a first round grade from the Steelers, it sure looks like they were hoping he could be the successor to Ben

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west View Post
    Ok from 2004 on only then,

    Rudolph had a first round grade from the Steelers, it sure looks like they were hoping he could be the successor to Ben
    And if you think about it…had Rudolph performed like a first rounder, the timing would’ve been perfect…no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by EzraTank View Post
    Been watching Jordan Davis today. He has been nonexistent, pass.
    Indeed Not his best game. He looked winded.

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west View Post
    Ok from 2004 on only then,

    Rudolph had a first round grade from the Steelers, it sure looks like they were hoping he could be the successor to Ben
    If anybody says they had a 1st round grade on Rudolph, then they are not being honest. He was a guy with the size, attitude, work ethic and production to have upside. Maybe on "potential" he had a 1st round grade, but on film his game had a lot of areas that needed to improve.

    Sure, the Steelers took a shot at Rudolph in the 3rd round to see if he could be a guy who could progress to be the heir. Its a risk-reward ratio, which is much better than a 1st round pick on a guy who sails footballs high on receivers in college and also didnt come thru in the clutch at times (like Bedlam game his Junior year).

    But look at the reaction from Ben on using a 3rd round pick on Rudolph. Imagine what it would have been if the Steelers drafted Lamar Jackson in the 1st round of 2018 instead of Terrell Edmunds?? Steelers been picking QB's to backup Ben since 2005 on, or he would have gone full pout.

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    Well there you have it... Array title="NCSteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> NCSteeler's Avatar

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    If anybody says they had a 1st round grade on Rudolph, then they are not being honest. He was a guy with the size, attitude, work ethic and production to have upside. Maybe on "potential" he had a 1st round grade, but on film his game had a lot of areas that needed to improve.

    Sure, the Steelers took a shot at Rudolph in the 3rd round to see if he could be a guy who could progress to be the heir. Its a risk-reward ratio, which is much better than a 1st round pick on a guy who sails footballs high on receivers in college and also didnt come thru in the clutch at times (like Bedlam game his Junior year).

    But look at the reaction from Ben on using a 3rd round pick on Rudolph. Imagine what it would have been if the Steelers drafted Lamar Jackson in the 1st round of 2018 instead of Terrell Edmunds?? Steelers been picking QB's to backup Ben since 2005 on, or he would have gone full pout.
    Ben wasn't as bad as Rogers but I can see their side. They want those draft picks to be players that can help out

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    Ben wasn't as bad as Rogers but I can see their side. They want those draft picks to be players that can help out

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    The thing with most athletes that have been youth and high school prodigies are that they generally grow up in an environment where everybody tells you how great you are all the time, from a young age. Unless you have a solid family structure around you to keep you grounded, then their self worth has been inflated since they were young.

    So guys like Rogers, Ben, Favre, etc become the last guys to know when its time hang up the cleats because their skills have diminished and take it personally, when all the accolades stop being thrown at them.

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    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    But look at the reaction from Ben on using a 3rd round pick on Rudolph. Imagine what it would have been if the Steelers drafted Lamar Jackson in the 1st round of 2018 instead of Terrell Edmunds?? Steelers been picking QB's to backup Ben since 2005 on, or he would have gone full pout.
    Thete is so much about this!!!

    Ben did NOT like when Mason was drafted. Not. One. Bit. The comment about Mason having a “first round grade” came after Ben had verbally obliterated the rookie. Colbert was doing damage control to Mason’s ego. Period.

    Tomlin loved Lamar. I’m not saying I would necessarily have wanted Lamar back then (Ben has had some pretty good seasons since that draft). Likewise, I’m not sure I’d want Lamar as the long-term solution (he falls apart against defenses that show him any kind of new front). But, there’s no doubt that he’s a phenomenal runner… It would have been extremely interesting to have seen him on the 2019 team (in place of Mason and Duck).

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Thete is so much about this!!!

    Ben did NOT like when Mason was drafted. Not. One. Bit. The comment about Mason having a “first round grade” came after Ben had verbally obliterated the rookie. Colbert was doing damage control to Mason’s ego. Period.

    Tomlin loved Lamar. I’m not saying I would necessarily have wanted Lamar back then (Ben has had some pretty good seasons since that draft). Likewise, I’m not sure I’d want Lamar as the long-term solution (he falls apart against defenses that show him any kind of new front). But, there’s no doubt that he’s a phenomenal runner… It would have been extremely interesting to have seen him on the 2019 team (in place of Mason and Duck).
    If the Steelers had drafted Lamar I wonder if they would have used him as a kind of slash player for awhile. That might have appeased Ben if he could use Lamar as a gimmick offensive weapon while also grooming him as a QB.

    But any way you look at it, it would have been a hard sell to draft a QB in the first round in 2018, especially before Rudolph really got tested as a potential post Ben starter.

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    If the Steelers had drafted Lamar I wonder if they would have used him as a kind of slash player for awhile. That might have appeased Ben if he could use Lamar as a gimmick offensive weapon while also grooming him as a QB.

    But any way you look at it, it would have been a hard sell to draft a QB in the first round in 2018, especially before Rudolph really got tested as a potential post Ben starter.

    call me a pessimist or whatever but I don't think the steelers would have touched Lamar Jackson in the draft even in the middle rounds had he fallen .. The Kid didn't attend any 1 on 1s with teams , teams had zero access to him they could speak to his mother tho she was his mouth piece , I honestly believe your average pet rock probably outscores him in the wonderlic and if not for his mother he would have been drafted in like the 5th round ...

    now I could be completely wrong but you will be hard pressed to change my mind
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    call me a pessimist or whatever but I don't think the steelers would have touched Lamar Jackson in the draft even in the middle rounds had he fallen .. The Kid didn't attend any 1 on 1s with teams , teams had zero access to him they could speak to his mother tho she was his mouth piece , I honestly believe your average pet rock probably outscores him in the wonderlic and if not for his mother he would have been drafted in like the 5th round ...

    now I could be completely wrong but you will be hard pressed to change my mind
    OK, I will accept your challenge and call you a pessimist.

    I recall somebody like Lois Riddick talking about how fast the ball comes off Jackson's hands and the arm talent at his pro day. Below is some video and analysis from his pro day and he met with teams there, but you are correct that he didnt do any private workouts, because so many teams wanted to try him at WR.



    IMO Jackson was developmental unless you are going to use him as a runner more, like the Ravens did. I still think they havent developed him as a passer and that is still his weakness. Right now, he is more like Randal Cunningham early in his career, where he is more of an athlete than a passer. Maybe that changes, but Ben would have pouted much worse about a 1st round QB, than a 3rd round QB drafted, IMO.

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    If anybody says they had a 1st round grade on Rudolph, then they are not being honest. He was a guy with the size, attitude, work ethic and production to have upside. Maybe on "potential" he had a 1st round grade, but on film his game had a lot of areas that needed to improve.

    Sure, the Steelers took a shot at Rudolph in the 3rd round to see if he could be a guy who could progress to be the heir. Its a risk-reward ratio, which is much better than a 1st round pick on a guy who sails footballs high on receivers in college and also didnt come thru in the clutch at times (like Bedlam game his Junior year).

    But look at the reaction from Ben on using a 3rd round pick on Rudolph. Imagine what it would have been if the Steelers drafted Lamar Jackson in the 1st round of 2018 instead of Terrell Edmunds?? Steelers been picking QB's to backup Ben since 2005 on, or he would have gone full pout.
    Colbert said it. Next year the steelers won't have to worry about what Ben thinks about picking QB's. I still want to see them draft in the upper part of the first round (whenever they are in position, maybe in 23' or they can trade up) because that is where they have had success. Outside of that part of the draft they have picked mediocre to bad QB's. Their history of picking QB's the past 50 years bares this out.
    Last edited by Steeler-in-west; 12-07-2021 at 11:26 PM.

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    I’m not trying to tear down Ben, either.

    Buuuut, his last few playoff games, he’s been a turnover machine. The Browns loss and the Jags loss have a lot to do with digging ourselves into a three-touchdown deficit.

    On the flip side, a few years ago, Ben made it to the AFCCG with fourth string receivers. Same goes for the game that Toussaint fumbled away. Probably two of Ben’s most impressive post-season performances.

    Speaking of injuries, Ben, Bell, & AB played in ONE playoff game together: the aforementioned Jags debacle. While they had the talent in the regular season, for whatever reason, either Bell or AB (or both) were injured.

    In 2005, Ben had the best playoff run in history… followed by the worst Super Bowl. We don’t win XLIII without Ben’s final drive. And, I still say that Manny Sanders being injured early in XLV cost us that game (e.g. Randle El ran the wrong route on the final drive).
    Wow. That's a lot. "Am I a joke to you?" - Joe Montana, 89-90

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloydwoodsonjr View Post
    Wow. That's a lot. "Am I a joke to you?"

    well .... I mean ya did ask ...........
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    From here on out the Steelers should be looking to draft a franchise QB in the first round and think about trading up.

    Other teams have had success by building an OL before drafting their QB.

    The Steelers are not prepared to develop a rookie QB- poor OL and no run game. It will also be the 3rd OC in 3 years.

    BPA makes sense next year. There are needs OL, DL, ILB and CB.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    well .... I mean ya did ask ...........
    Oh. So you think Ben is better than Montana also? That's the side you're weighing in on? Wow.

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Who is the “franchise QB” that is a “guarantee” like Rivers/Manning/Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloydwoodsonjr View Post
    From here on out the Steelers should be looking to draft a franchise QB in the first round and think about trading up.

    Other teams have had success by building an OL before drafting their QB.

    The Steelers are not prepared to develop a rookie QB- poor OL and no run game. It will also be the 3rd OC in 3 years.

    BPA makes sense next year. There are needs OL, DL, ILB and CB.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Oh. So you think Ben is better than Montana also? That's the side you're weighing in on? Wow.

    did I say that ? show me where .....

    this is what I answered to ... and my answer ....

    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Originally Posted by Lloydwoodsonjr
    Wow. That's a lot. "Am I a joke to you?"



    ( and I said )
    well .... I mean ya did ask ...........



    where is the word Ben or Montana .....

    read exactly what is in that quote and NOTHING extra ....
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloydwoodsonjr View Post
    Am I a joke to you?

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Who is the “franchise QB” that is a “guarantee” like Rivers/Manning/Roethlisberger?
    None of them actually.

    Pickett could be productive, but I have a hard time thinking of anything he does which is superior to Teddy Bridgewater.

    Malik Willis- strong arm, athletic, threw 12 INT this year and was sacked 50 times. So he either lacks pocket awareness, athleticism to escape the rush, or doesnt read college defenses well enough to get the ball out of his hands in time.

    Matt Corral- good arm strength, good command of Kiffin's offense, athletic enough to make plays on the run, but nothing says wow, sure fire franchise QB.

    Sam Howell- I think he is 6'1", so not the tallest guy. Competitor, throws a good football and at 220lbs he is a strong guy and strong runner with the ball. Makes quick decisions to throw or run. I think he could be Russell Wilson, he could be Taysom Hill.

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    did I say that ? show me where .....

    this is what I answered to ... and my answer ....




    where is the word Ben or Montana .....

    read exactly what is in that quote and NOTHING extra ....
    Not one man on this board. You actually edited out "Am I a joke to you?" -Joe Montana, 89-90

    I was poking fun at Ben's 2005 playoff run being the best ever. That's all.

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    I don't follow much college football either like some others have admitted (except for SC - but not even them this year -)

    But I have heard that guys that come from colleges that face stiff competition but are not dominant teams themselves are good places to find a "diamond in the rough" where you find out if a QB can get beat up by a top school but come back and have a good second half or good next game - such as a Maryland or Louisiana Tech - that's how you know that they won't crumble when they face the imminent adversity that NFL competition will bring. Of course the QB has to have the talent as well but being able to fight through adversity is perhaps underrated. Some of these guys from the Alabama's and Michigan's never faced serious adversity (or QB's from SC sadly)...

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Imo, with their first pick they could go any spot on the OL, DE, NT, ILB, QB, WR, and I'd even throw OLB in there. Obviously, some of these slot will be filled via free agency. There's a lot of holes on this team, but it should be an exciting offseason to see where they spend their money.

    I still like Malik Willis out of Liberty. He is an elite talent, but may be a high risk in the first round. I wouldn't be disappointed if they decided to go OL and somehow snag Willis in the 2nd.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    None of them actually.

    Pickett could be productive, but I have a hard time thinking of anything he does which is superior to Teddy Bridgewater.

    Malik Willis- strong arm, athletic, threw 12 INT this year and was sacked 50 times. So he either lacks pocket awareness, athleticism to escape the rush, or doesnt read college defenses well enough to get the ball out of his hands in time.

    Matt Corral- good arm strength, good command of Kiffin's offense, athletic enough to make plays on the run, but nothing says wow, sure fire franchise QB.

    Sam Howell- I think he is 6'1", so not the tallest guy. Competitor, throws a good football and at 220lbs he is a strong guy and strong runner with the ball. Makes quick decisions to throw or run. I think he could be Russell Wilson, he could be Taysom Hill.
    Willis may lack pocket awareness, but definitely doesn't lack athleticism. It's hard to judge Willis when he's playing at Liberty. Could be a lot of different things factoring into his stats, but he does throw one hell of a deep ball.

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Drafting Malik Willis wouldn't make sense so Tomlin is probably all for it. Pass on the best running QB since Vick in Lamar Jackson and take an undersized Malik Willis who looks down receivers, doesn't go through progressions at all and looks to run first not extend plays.

    Do I want a running QB? No. But if I did I would want Lamar Jackson.

    Tomlin said a mobile QB is critical for 4th down conversions... except Ben's teams were decent in 2004 and 2005 in short yardage converting 7/13. Maybe try a QB sneak with the biggest QB in football? Maybe build a functional OL?

    Nothing says "let's draft a mobile QB" like having mammoths on the OL like Banner, Chuks and Dotson that can't move in space.

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    Imo, with their first pick they could go any spot on the OL, DE, NT, ILB, QB, WR, and I'd even throw OLB in there. Obviously, some of these slot will be filled via free agency. There's a lot of holes on this team, but it should be an exciting offseason to see where they spend their money.

    I still like Malik Willis out of Liberty. He is an elite talent, but may be a high risk in the first round. I wouldn't be disappointed if they decided to go OL and somehow snag Willis in the 2nd.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Willis may lack pocket awareness, but definitely doesn't lack athleticism. It's hard to judge Willis when he's playing at Liberty. Could be a lot of different things factoring into his stats, but he does throw one hell of a deep ball.
    that said the shortfall of his stats cant be blamed on his team mates lack of talent without also saying they are as good as they are because of the lack of quality opponent as well ...

    when you are not a man among boys regardless of your team mates when playing your team mates equals, chances are you lack the talent yourself to make the leap to the NFL where everybody is really really good
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: QB is the sexy pick, but we may need to go DL early in the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    that said the shortfall of his stats cant be blamed on his team mates lack of talent without also saying they are as good as they are because of the lack of quality opponent as well ...

    when you are not a man among boys regardless of your team mates when playing your team mates equals, chances are you lack the talent yourself to make the leap to the NFL where everybody is really really good
    Took me a while to understand what you wrote but I think you mean that the competition Liberty has played is on the same level as the receivers Willis was throwing to and the OL blocking for him such that Willis should still be a stand out player.

    I agree with that and it makes me think of Johnny Manziel at A&M. Manziel had the cleanest pocket I've ever seen with multiple high level OL. I think 2 OTs were 1st round picks. He had at least 5 seconds to throw on almost every play. When Manziel did throw it was usually a lob to 6'7 Mike Evans another 1st round player. Manziel's indecisiveness coupled with his instinct to run so often to me guaranteed he would not succeed in the NFL.

    Similarly Willis' inability to go through progressions and instinct to run first means he will not transition to the NFL regardless of the talent around him. It would not surprise me at all if he is a Steeler because of Tomlin's fairly routine comments about mobile QBs this season, and the fact that Willis will make it to later rounds barring a suicidal decision by a GM.

    I really hate draft hype. Josh Rosen exceeded my expectations and I remember hearing how he was the most pro ready QB in years with unparalleled accuracy etc.

    Most drafts there are 1-2 QBs with a shot to be franchise QBs and this year they are Pickett and Strong that I am aware of.

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