What do you hate?

[Vis]

Quick constitutional pop quiz: What do you hate? (And by you, I mean you.)

If you answered: homosexuals, Jews, Catholics, the military, the pope, and more or less everyone except Fred Phelps, who founded the Westboro Baptist Church and is thus your dad/uncle/granddad/third cousin, you are probably one of the 30-plus members of the church, which argued at the Supreme Court this morning for the right to vile, hateful protests at the funerals of fallen soldiers. If you answered: intolerance, incivility, people who glom onto the private grief of military families, or the Westboro Baptist Church, you probably sympathize with Albert Snyder, whose efforts to bury his son, Matthew, who died in Iraq in 2006, were marred by members of the Phelps family wielding signs reading "God Hates Fags," "God Hates You," and "Thank God for Dead Soldiers.".....

http://www.slate.com/id/2270167/

[Vis]

The headline writers are going to say that the justices "struggled" with this case. That may be so, but what they struggled with has very little to do with the law, which rather clearly protects even the most offensive speech about public matters such as war and morality. They are struggling here with the facts, which they hate. Which we all hate. But looking at the parties through hate-colored glasses has never been the best way to think about the First Amendment. In fact, as I understand it, that's why we needed a First Amendment in the first place.

Great point to finish.

[BPS3akaWirels3]

I am an Independent Baptist and live 30 miles from Albert... I do not support these idiots at this church. We have our beliefs and stand by them but do not make a public mockery like they do at churches and funerals. Their song they sang outside the supreme court yesterday proves they have something wrong with them.

I support Albert and ALL the fallen troops. I do not hate the people, I hate the sin.

I sin everyday and so do these people from this church. God is the only one that can stand and judge.

[Vis]

I am an Independent Baptist and live 30 miles from Albert... I do not support these idiots at this church. We have our beliefs and stand by them but do not make a public mockery like they do at churches and funerals. Their song they sang outside the supreme court yesterday proves they have something wrong with them.

I support Albert and ALL the fallen troops. I do not hate the people, I hate the sin.

I sin everyday and so do these people from this church. God is the only one that can stand and judge.

But should we bend the First Amendment to stop Phelps?

[BPS3akaWirels3]

It's called guide lines.

[Vis]

what is?

[BPS3akaWirels3]

http://www.ilike.com/artist/Evans+Blue/videos/683357939

I am only saying this and then I am done. You all know my beliefs now but didn't know my beloved dad fought in Nam and has 2 purple hearts and to this day has a piece of that war in him (Yes I mean pieces of a bomb that could not be removed) and has Agent Orange. He is a DAM good father to us three children. I have done him wrong many a time when growing up. Unfortunately I do believe that I did not grow up the way my parents wanted me to and for that I am sorry. As you know he has been fighting/recovering from colon cancer and has been very tuff through all. So that being said " I would die on top of my dad's grave to defend my father, his belief's, our Savor and what he fought for in Nam.

Westboro should shut up and keep it in their house of worship. From me being a Baptist I do not support what they are doing. It's a disgrace to our Lord and Savior and this "God fearing country of ours"


P.S. Don't get me started on the NRA and the right to bare arms... How big is your gun?!! Mines bigger..

[Vis]

I am only saying this and then I am done. You all know my beliefs now but didn't know my beloved dad fought in Nam and has 2 purple hearts and to this day has a piece of that war in him (Yes I mean pieces of a bomb that could not be removed) and has Agent Orange. He is a DAM good father to us three children. I have done him wrong many a time when growing up. Unfortunately I do believe that I did not grow up the way my parents wanted me to and for that I am sorry. As you know he has been fighting/recovering from colon cancer and has been very tuff through all. So that being said " I would die on top of my dad's grave to defend my father, his belief's, our Savor and what he fought for in Nam.

Westboro should shut up and keep it in their house of worship. From me being a Baptist I do not support what they are doing. It's a disgrace to our Lord and Savior and this "God fearing country of ours"


P.S. Don't get me started on the NRA and the right to bare arms... How big is your gun?!! Mines bigger..

Hating what they say is different than giving the government the power to stop it. We all hate what they are doing. The issue is what to do about it. If the government claims the power to stop Phelp's hateful speech, it can use the same power to stop the speech of the tea parties and the NRA, and you, and me.

[SCSTILLER]

Being a member of the military, having flown home the remains of the fallen for burial, and having flown back the wounded for treatments in numerous hospitals, I hate these bastards. And yes, hate is the word I use when talking about them. I do have to say that they only make themselves look like idiots, and God will judge them fairly when they all get up there. Now, whether or not we should limit their speech, to this I will say no. As much as I do not like their speech, where they do it, and the forum they do it at, they still have the freedom of speech protected under the constitution that myself and thousands before and with me have sworn to defend. If we start restricting speech in specific cases, sooner than later the government will have all speech that they don't like restricted. I DO NOT want to live in a United States of America that takes away my freedom of speech. These people are despicable, but thank the lord for the Patriot Riders who do everything in their power to shield these bastards from the grieving families and friends.

[BPS3akaWirels3]

Being a member of the military, having flown home the remains of the fallen for burial, and having flown back the wounded for treatments in numerous hospitals, I hate these bastards. And yes, hate is the word I use when talking about them. I do have to say that they only make themselves look like idiots, and God will judge them fairly when they all get up there. Now, whether or not we should limit their speech, to this I will say no. As much as I do not like their speech, where they do it, and the forum they do it at, they still have the freedom of speech protected under the constitution that myself and thousands before and with me have sworn to defend. If we start restricting speech in specific cases, sooner than later the government will have all speech that they don't like restricted. I DO NOT want to live in a United States of America that takes away my freedom of speech. These people are despicable, but thank the lord for the Patriot Riders who do everything in their power to shield these bastards from the grieving families and friends.

Thank you for all you have done SCStiller...

[Mach1]

But should we bend the First Amendment to stop Phelps?

Unfortunately No.

It's that free speech thing.

[Wallace108]

There's no such thing as absolute freedom. Even freedom of speech has limitations.
You're free to say whatever you want, but there are limitations to when and where you can say it.

I can stand in my living room and yell "fire" all I want. But I can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater.
Walk into an airport and yell, "I've got a bomb!" Then after you're detained, argue freedom of speech. See how far that gets ya ...

Yes, those people have a right to protest and say whatever they want. But they DON'T have a right to intentionally inflict emotional distress on grieving families. And that's exactly what those protests are doing. So I say no. The protests are NOT constitutionally protected free speech.

[BuddhaBus]

There's no such thing as absolute freedom. Even freedom of speech has limitations.
You're free to say whatever you want, but there are limitations to when and where you can say it.

I can stand in my living room and yell "fire" all I want. But I can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater.
Walk into an airport and yell, "I've got a bomb!" Then after you're detained, argue freedom of speech. See how far that gets ya ...

Yes, those people have a right to protest and say whatever they want. But they DON'T have a right to intentionally inflict emotional distress on grieving families. And that's exactly what those protests are doing. So I say no. The protests are NOT constitutionally protected free speech.

That IS one hell of a point Wally! I never thought of it that way. I hate these despicable douchebags and all they stand for. They may have the right to free speech, but maybe they also have the right to a Grade-A, first rate, righteous kick in the ass! I surely didn't see anything... did you?

[SCSTILLER]

That IS one hell of a point Wally! I never thought of it that way. I hate these despicable douchebags and all they stand for. They may have the right to free speech, but maybe they also have the right to a Grade-A, first rate, righteous kick in the ass! I surely didn't see anything... did you?

See what?

[Wallace108]

See what?

I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

[7SteelGal43]

When the pastor of Westboro passes on, I wouldn't be surprised if 20,000 or more line the streets of the funeral procession with the most hateful, disrespectful, hurtful signs for his family and congregation to have to endure.

[Godfather]

Yes, those people have a right to protest and say whatever they want. But they DON'T have a right to intentionally inflict emotional distress on grieving families. And that's exactly what those protests are doing. So I say no. The protests are NOT constitutionally protected free speech.

I agree 100%. The issue here is not the content of their message. The issue is that grieving families have the right to bury their loved ones in peace.

If the content of the message were different (such as Code Pink saying good riddance to the baby killer), there would still be a problem. But if the venue were changed (letter to the editor, protests at military recruitment centers, going on TV or radio and saying dead soldiers are God's punishment on us for tolerating gays, etc.) it would clearly be protected speech.

So there is no First Amendment issue with stopping them...we're not discriminating against their message or stopping them from expressing their views. We're simply protecting the rights of the military families.

[Wallace108]

I agree 100%. The issue here is not the content of their message. The issue is that grieving families have the right to bury their loved ones in peace.

If the content of the message were different (such as Code Pink saying good riddance to the baby killer), there would still be a problem. But if the venue were changed (letter to the editor, protests at military recruitment centers, going on TV or radio and saying dead soldiers are God's punishment on us for tolerating gays, etc.) it would clearly be protected speech.

So there is no First Amendment issue with stopping them...we're not discriminating against their message or stopping them from expressing their views. We're simply protecting the rights of the military families.

Excellent post, Godfather. It's not just a free speech issue. It's a FREEDOM issue. And the grieving families have rights, too.

Here's how freedom works: My right to freedom stops where your right to freedom starts.
I have a right to stand there and throw punches in the air. But I don't have a right to throw those punches if you're standing next to me and I punch you in the face.

[BuddhaBus]

When the pastor of Westboro passes on, I wouldn't be surprised if 20,000 or more line the streets of the funeral procession with the most hateful, disrespectful, hurtful signs for his family and congregation to have to endure.

Karma, baby, karma!

[Devilsdancefloor]

As muh as i hate these douchebags I and those being buried they protest have protected their right to assemble and to have their free speech. I do believe there is a special place in hell waiting for all of them. I also know they wil protest a funeral and someone will take it out of their hid one of these days. Yes they wil spend time in jail, but im sure they will think of it as time well spent.

[BuddhaBus]

As muh as i hate these douchebags I and those being buried they protest have protected their right to assemble and to have their free speech. I do believe there is a special place in hell waiting for all of them. I also know they wil protest a funeral and someone will take it out of their hid one of these days. Yes they wil spend time in jail, but im sure they will think of it as time well spent.

I am stunned that none of these asshats has been beaten to death with one of their own signs yet.

[Wallace108]

As muh as i hate these douchebags I and those being buried they protest have protected their right to assemble and to have their free speech.

Therein lies the gray area. Freedom of speech isn't the only freedom we have. The families trying to bury their loved ones have rights and freedoms, too.

[Wallace108]

I am stunned that none of these asshats has been beaten to death with one of their own signs yet.

Have you been watching rasslin' again?

[BuddhaBus]

Have you been watching rasslin' again?

C'mon, Wally! You were just watching The Nature Boy wrestle Cactus Jack just a few minutes ago right along with me! Don't act like you're cool now!

[Devilsdancefloor]

I am stunned that none of these asshats has been beaten to death with one of their own signs yet.

Im surprised someone has not organized a protest against this asshats. id stand 2 feet in front of them holding up my signs toward them and everytime they moved i would do the same i wouldnt say a word to them just face them in be close enough to make them very uncomfortable

[BuddhaBus]

Im surprised someone has not organized a protest against this asshats. id stand 2 feet in front of them holding up my signs toward them and everytime they moved i would do the same i wouldnt say a word to them just face them in be close enough to make them very uncomfortable

Need any help, DDF?

[Devilsdancefloor]

i am sure i could hundreds more to just stand and stare

[BuddhaBus]

i am sure i could hundreds more to just stand and stare

Probably THOUSANDS!

[Vis]

But how is infliction of emotional distress a standard that the law can use? Fire in a theater isn't about feelings, it's about danger. Isn't emotional distress subjective? Does the emotional distress have to be proved? Must medical records be produced showing that it actually existed? Some people let things slide better than others. Is freedom of speech dependent on how sensitive the hearer is?

[BPS3akaWirels3]

But how is infliction of emotional distress a standard that the law can use? Fire in a theater isn't about feelings, it's about danger. Isn't emotional distress subjective? Does the emotional distress have to be proved? Must medical records be produced showing that it actually existed? Some people let things slide better than others. Is freedom of speech dependent on how sensitive the hearer is?

Vis, calm down brother... relax... You will live a longer life if you don't sweat the stuff you can't control..