Witherspoon traded to the Steelers

[Dwinsgames]

I don't see how anyone can reasonably by that Witherspoon was/is the fifth best CB in the NFL. He wasn't resigned by the Niners and then was benched and traded by the Seahawks. No one does that to the 15th best corner in the league - let alone the 5th.

As for the fans thing...you know the roster just as well as the guys who are paid to know the roster and write about it all across the internet. What role do you see for a guy that:
1. Is up and down in his coverages.
2. Doesn't move quick enough in short areas to play the slot
3. Has issues in run support
4. Isn't known for his blitzing
5. Is likely the 3rd or 4th best outside CB on the roster behind Haden, Sutton, and Pierre.

Unless there is secret film of Witherspoon doing secret things -- it is reasonably well known what he is a player after 4 full seasons in the NFL. Unless he is going to flourish in the Steelers system because of some this thing or the other that no one has thought of yet or whatever...he is a back-up CB that cost 2 fifth round picks. That seems a bit steep to me for a team that is more than a back-up CB in 2021 away from hosting season ending parades.

ok my thought is this

1) we are uncertain how slot CB pans out meaning Sutton may be forced to play it instead of outside

2) Haden is 32 years old and injuries creep in when you get to that age ....

3) Pierre has very little experience

so if 1 and 2 happen you have just 1 inexperienced CB to throw into the mix on the outside without calling Justin Laynes number , and if Laynes number is called for any length of time the season is over IMO....

If Just 1 happens its a toss up to weather its Pierre or Witherspoon get the call ...

He instantly becomes the fastest CB on the team and he is long and rangy , he has the traits and has some very good film ( and some ugly film but that was prior to the good tape ) his arrow presumably is pointed up and for a late round pick that historically has produced nothing for the team its well worth the gamble even if it is 2 late round selections ... 2 nobodies for a somebody is almost always a good deal

[Mojouw]

ok my thought is this

1) we are uncertain how slot CB pans out meaning Sutton may be forced to play it instead of outside

2) Haden is 32 years old and injuries creep in when you get to that age ....

3) Pierre has very little experience

so if 1 and 2 happen you have just 1 inexperienced CB to throw into the mix on the outside without calling Justin Laynes number , and if Laynes number is called for any length of time the season is over IMO....

If Just 1 happens its a toss up to weather its Pierre or Witherspoon get the call ...

He instantly becomes the fastest CB on the team and he is long and rangy , he has the traits and has some very good film ( and some ugly film but that was prior to the good tape ) his arrow presumably is pointed up and for a late round pick that historically has produced nothing for the team its well worth the gamble even if it is 2 late round selections ... 2 nobodies for a somebody is almost always a good deal

Maybe I'm just being negative or whatnot. But I just can not wrap my head around trading multiple lottery tickets for a 4 year NFL vet that just hasn't ever put it together.

Historically, every trade I have liked has not worked out and the ones I don't like have been great. So...this almost certainly means I am wrong. I suspect it also has a great deal to do with the fact that I am not very optimistic about the 2021 Steelers overall. That makes trading future assets for present depth kinda irritating. But clearly many many others see it very differently...again...pointing towards me being off in my starting assumptions.

[Dwinsgames]

Maybe I'm just being negative or whatnot. But I just can not wrap my head around trading multiple lottery tickets for a 4 year NFL vet that just hasn't ever put it together.

Historically, every trade I have liked has not worked out and the ones I don't like have been great. So...this almost certainly means I am wrong. I suspect it also has a great deal to do with the fact that I am not very optimistic about the 2021 Steelers overall. That makes trading future assets for present depth kinda irritating. But clearly many many others see it very differently...again...pointing towards me being off in my starting assumptions.

its always a crap shoot for sure , but if history is any indication of future results we literally had nothing to lose ... one thing we know is Witherspoon can play in the NFL and hold a roster spot for several years ... our normal 5th round picks , not so much

[st33lersguy]

They needed to do something else at the CB position, but this may be too little too late. At the price of 2 5th round picks (the comp pick loss plus the draft pick), not sure he's worth it

[teegre]

It is also likely going to cost them a fifth in 2022 by cancelling out Feiler in the comp formula.

That needs accounted for as well. They have zero picks in rounds 4-6 that draft year currently.

I have zero faith that we would have gotten that R5 comp pick anyway. The proof is that we lose a starting RG for a decent contract and that contract is negated by signing a CB for $1.5 million. Yea, honestly, it sounds like the entire comp pick system is a joke.

[Mojouw]

I think it's because Witherspoon is calculated not off his cap hit (what Steelers are paying) but his total FA deal (what Steelers and Seahawks are paying him).

I've been busy and haven't looked for a decent walkthrough yet and likely won't unless it just kinda crosses my path.

More I think about it, my negative reaction to the draft picks involved is directly tied to my feeling that the 2021 Steelers aren't going to be serious playoff team good...so why trade future assets to make a run at the one and done wild card?

And if one didn't see the season that way; well, then the trade likely looks a heckuva lot different.

[86WARD]

If Haeg plays under a certain amount of snaps, won’t they get that 5th round pick back anyway?

[Born2Steel]

ok my thought is this

1) we are uncertain how slot CB pans out meaning Sutton may be forced to play it instead of outside

2) Haden is 32 years old and injuries creep in when you get to that age ....

3) Pierre has very little experience

so if 1 and 2 happen you have just 1 inexperienced CB to throw into the mix on the outside without calling Justin Laynes number , and if Laynes number is called for any length of time the season is over IMO....

If Just 1 happens its a toss up to weather its Pierre or Witherspoon get the call ...

He instantly becomes the fastest CB on the team and he is long and rangy , he has the traits and has some very good film ( and some ugly film but that was prior to the good tape ) his arrow presumably is pointed up and for a late round pick that historically has produced nothing for the team its well worth the gamble even if it is 2 late round selections ... 2 nobodies for a somebody is almost always a good deal

This is exactly my thoughts as well, only put better than I did. Witherspoon is here to upgrade the backup outside CB role. That cost to bring him was the cost, whatever it was. He's not coming here to be the next lock-down CB, nor as a future replacement for Haden. The fact is that our DB room has 5 good starters with very young, immature players behind them. Bringing in Joseph and Witherspoon instantly upgrades the backups.

I think maybe Brooks Jr getting poached forced a move. Maybe this move is Sutton inside and Pierre to RCB. Witherspoon will be the primary backup outside and Joseph the primary backup in slot.

These thoughts are only for Bills week. Joseph and/or Witherspoon could work themselves into starting roles, as well as someone could work themselves out of a starting role.

[teegre]

As far as comp picks go, I truly believe that they a) reach into a hat and pull out random compensations, and b) automatically award the Taperiots with a R3 pick.

As far as backups go, I once heard someone say that the reason Bill Parcells was so good as a coach was that he would focus on & deliberately upgrade his team’s 23-53. I’ve always felt that Colbert is very adept at that, as well (which allows Tomlin to readily say his catchphrase: “next man up”).

[Mojouw]

If Haeg plays under a certain amount of snaps, won’t they get that 5th round pick back anyway?

I think Haeg and Hilton are currently canceling each other out. What I have read is that Haeg falls out of "qualifying free agent"status; they would get a 6th round comp pick.

[Mojouw]

As far as comp picks go, I truly believe that they a) reach into a hat and pull out random compensations, and b) automatically award the Taperiots with a R3 pick.

As far as backups go, I once heard someone say that the reason Bill Parcells was so good as a coach was that he would focus on & deliberately upgrade his team’s 23-53. I’ve always felt that Colbert is very adept at that, as well (which allows Tomlin to readily say his catchphrase: “next man up”).

All totally reasonable.

1. I think the comp pick formula is fairly easy to predict. Several NFL teams (see the Ravens) are making a living at manipulating signing and releasing guys to ensure max comp picks.
2. Agreed on improving the bottom half of the roster. Glad to see the team doing it and not remaining tied to guys like Dangerfield, Matakevich, etc.
3. I guess I just don't think Witherspoon is all that good. I may be totally wrong with that. Likely am. But flawed mid round draft picks each in Layne and Witherspoon. What is really the difference? How much different, other than experience, is Witherspoon than who could have been signed for free after cut downs? Again...not something I know enough to evaluate, but is he really 2 draft picks better than some guys looking for work? One controversial name and a guy that never lived up to his hype but is out there looking for a team -- Gareon Conley. Which dude is better?

[teegre]

@mojoUW

1) The Ravens are first in comp picks with something like 54. The Steelers are third with around 33. The Taperiots “should” be around tenth, but like I said before, they get an automatic R3 pick (so they are one comp pick ahead of us for second place).

2) Exactly

3) From what I’m reading, Witherspoon is soft… which Seattle wants NO part of. Of course, the question as to “why did they sign him?” is for a different thread (maybe they thought he’d suddenly become a physical player???). As far as I can tell…

coverage-wise: good
bump at the line: nope
willing to tackle: bwahahaha

Why him? (as opposed to Conley) Good question. I heard they liked Witherspoon in that draft. That is a Colbert staple: acquiring guys he liked from previous drafts.

[Mojouw]

@mojoUW

1) The Ravens are first in comp picks with something like 54. The Steelers are third with around 33. The Taperiots “should” be around tenth, but like I said before, they get an automatic R3 pick (so they are one comp pick ahead of us for second place).

2) Exactly

3) From what I’m reading, Witherspoon is soft… which Seattle wants NO part of. Of course, the question as to “why did they sign him?” is for a different thread (maybe they thought he’d suddenly become a physical player???). As far as I can tell…

coverage-wise: good
bump at the line: nope
willing to tackle: bwahahaha

Why him? (as opposed to Conley) Good question. I heard they liked Witherspoon in that draft. That is a Colbert staple: acquiring guys he liked from previous drafts.

All really true and nothing but good points. I should probably see the dude play before I kick rocks about 5th round draft picks. Just fun (for me and perhaps me alone) to have the discussion about "value" and the teams motivations. Thanks to you and all others for entertaining my random ideas.

[86WARD]

The tape shows a guy that's comfortable using his feet and length in press coverage at the line of scrimmage.

He's also able to click and close well for a guy his size in off coverage, whether in man or zone. He possesses the speed to run steep for steep with some of the league's faster wide receivers.

He also improved as a tackler in 2020 after struggling in that department for the first three years of his career. SIS charted him with just 1 missed tackle last season after missing 22 in the 3 years prior.

https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/gm-r...lo-witherspoon



https://www.ninersnation.com/2020/7/...e-back-in-2020


Couple articles insinuating that he’s a physical player. You can also find many that says he’s not. The consensus seems to be that he was the real deal until he got injured and then it went sporadic.

[cubanstogie]

no real expectations from me on this guy. Nelson came here with some great stats if I recall but underperformed. The change in schemes and playing with guys like Minkah and Haden possibly could boost his performance. Depth is much needed so a 5th round pick is worth it IMO. What I really like is the fact the front office and coaches addressed weaknesses, especially ILB. watching Spence and Chickalo a few years ago was painful after injuries to starters. They’re proactive atleast.

[86WARD]

no real expectations from me on this guy. Nelson came here with some great stats if I recall but underperformed. The change in schemes and playing with guys like Minkah and Haden possibly could boost his performance. Depth is much needed so a 5th round pick is worth it IMO. What I really like is the fact the front office and coaches addressed weaknesses, especially ILB. watching Spence and Chickalo a few years ago was painful after injuries to starters. They’re proactive atleast.

Good point about his surroundings. I mean look what the addition of Fitzpatrick did to that while secondary? They all looked much, much better once he got there. Maybe there’s something to that…

[EzraTank]

Reece is like what, 5'1" and 45 years old, there is no way she makes us better.

[DesertSteel]

He's listed as 3rd string on the new depth chart.

[hawaiiansteeler]

He's listed as 3rd string on the new depth chart.

I'll bet he plays before Justin Layne does.

[Shoes]

A bit more film

[Dwinsgames]

I'll bet he plays before Justin Layne does.

I bet he does too .....

[86WARD]

During his Tuesday press conference, Mike Tomlin explained why the Steelers made the deal.


“We just wanted to add to our outside corner depth,” he said via the team’s YouTube channel. “It provides versatility for us. Like we were mentioning, talking about Cam Sutton and his ability to move inside. Capable outside guys, having enough depth at that position aids us in that regard.”


Witherspoon has been a long, press outside cornerback his entire career and that won’t change in Pittsburgh.

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/09/st...o-witherspoon/

[teegre]

I’m hearing that they will evaluate the opposing receivers on a weekly basis. Some weeks, Sutton will be on the outside; other weeks, Sutton will play the slot.

[86WARD]

I’m hearing that they will evaluate the opposing receivers on a weekly basis. Some weeks, Sutton will be on the outside; other weeks, Sutton will play the slot.

Sounds smart to me.

[tube517]

I’m hearing that they will evaluate the opposing receivers on a weekly basis. Some weeks, Sutton will be on the outside; other weeks, Sutton will play the slot.

That's why they have 2 DB coaches!

[Mojouw]

I’m hearing that they will evaluate the opposing receivers on a weekly basis. Some weeks, Sutton will be on the outside; other weeks, Sutton will play the slot.

Maybe This will be this year's "3 safety package". Much talked about but never seen!

[BlackAndGold]

Have to think the FO potentially see him as a potential Haden replacement next season than just a depth piece for this year.

[Mojouw]

I know that resurrecting a dead thread is not great. I also know that everyone is in a good mood after a nice home win.

But...Witherspoon can not even get a hat on gameday with injury to Sutton?

He is seemingly passed on the depth chart by Justin (Possible Draft Bust) Layne and Karl (I get cut several times a year) Joseph?

Glad we gave up a draft pick and lost out on a comp pick so this dude can wear sweats on the sidelines. I mean draft picks are NEVER used to solve that whole "no franchise QB" thing.

[pepsyman1]

We do do some strange things. When you've got people on the field getting burned regularly, why is someone we traded for just sitting idle? Why do we have a highly paid full back that gets used as a fullback for one play or two every couple of weeks (besides special teams)? Maybe we gotta have people rested and ready when we "unleash hell". lol

[tube517]

I know that resurrecting a dead thread is not great. I also know that everyone is in a good mood after a nice home win.

But...Witherspoon can not even get a hat on gameday with injury to Sutton?

He is seemingly passed on the depth chart by Justin (Possible Draft Bust) Layne and Karl (I get cut several times a year) Joseph?

Glad we gave up a draft pick and lost out on a comp pick so this dude can wear sweats on the sidelines. I mean draft picks are NEVER used to solve that whole "no franchise QB" thing.

Said this in the gameday thread. He is this year's Brandon Boykin.