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Thread: Alan Faneca lobbies for Hines Ward to join him in Canton: 'He is a Hall of Famer'

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Alan Faneca lobbies for Hines Ward to join him in Canton: 'He is a Hall of Famer'

    Quote Originally Posted by W&M_Steeler View Post
    Do you see Reggie Wayne and Torry Holt as Hall of Famers? Their stats are in the same ballpark as Ward and Boldin and Marshall, but they were HoF Finalists this year. I can understand an argument that none of those guys should be in the HoF, but I don't see an argument for them over Ward. Ward has that extra dimension those guys lacked, put up numbers in tougher circumstances, plus has a Super Bowl MVP. Does a single all pro for Holt and for Wayne really offset all of that?
    I don’t really see any of those guys as HOF guys. They put up gaudy numbers but often weren’t even the best WR on their own teams.

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    Re: Alan Faneca lobbies for Hines Ward to join him in Canton: 'He is a Hall of Famer'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I don’t really see any of those guys as HOF guys. They put up gaudy numbers but often weren’t even the best WR on their own teams.
    I agree to an extent, but nevertheless both Holt and Wayne were HOF finalists last year. In that context, I don't see why Hines Ward wouldn't also at least be an HoF finalist. What's the argument for elevating Holt and Wayne above Ward?

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    Re: Alan Faneca lobbies for Hines Ward to join him in Canton: 'He is a Hall of Famer'

    Quote Originally Posted by W&M_Steeler View Post
    I agree to an extent, but nevertheless both Holt and Wayne were HOF finalists last year. In that context, I don't see why Hines Ward wouldn't also at least be an HoF finalist. What's the argument for elevating Holt and Wayne above Ward?
    I don't know. I am not making it.

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    Re: Alan Faneca lobbies for Hines Ward to join him in Canton: 'He is a Hall of Famer'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I get what you are saying and I don't totally disagree. But I have heard yourself and others around the Steelers internet argue that Ward changed the game with this blocking. The fact that I can only come up with Juju and then I draw a blank on "listing current NFL WRs" that block well" makes me think that he didn't change the game at all.

    Ward was a "one off" WR that likely will always stand alone. As I have said, his WR #'s are not that great across the board (total catches yes...other stats are average for a career as long as his) and I don't think the blocking puts him over the top.

    Brandon Marshall has almost identical stats with something around 2 seasons less of games. I wouldn't put Marshall in the HOF. Anquan Boldin has an eerily similar stat line, a comparable number of games, and a related reputation for toughness. Is he a HOF'er? I feel like the answer is "No"....and therefore Ward also doesn't get in....just some thoughts.
    I disagree. Team have their WRs practice blocking far more than they did 15 years ago. Likewise, having receivers come across and block LBs would never have been done before Ward.

    Are these receivers as good at it as Ward? No

    Do teams teach their receivers to block like Ward? Absolutely

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    Re: Alan Faneca lobbies for Hines Ward to join him in Canton: 'He is a Hall of Famer'

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    I disagree. Team have their WRs practice blocking far more than they did 15 years ago. Likewise, having receivers come across and block LBs would never have been done before Ward.

    Are these receivers as good at it as Ward? No

    Do teams teach their receivers to block like Ward? Absolutely
    I question whether NFL WRs are blocking more now because of Ward or because of the rise of spread concepts and personnel groupings. If you want to RPO or play action run out of a bunch of WRs, no fullback, and maybe no TE...someone has to block a safety at some point.

    What I am not smart enough to really answer is whether or not teams using WRs to block guys is because of some sort of post Hines Ward impact or just the result of a numbers game and alignment with the offensive packages that are popular across the NFL and the NCAA. Coaches want the defense spread out and to move things around horizontally to open vertical spaces in the passing game. To run out of that same group, you have to have your WRs block sometimes. Something they didn't have to do out of a "Pro Set" formation (popular at the start of Ward's career).

    Long rambling story over. I think WRs are blocking now in order for coaches to keep the personnel package they want on the field flexible not because Hines Ward blazed a trail.

    But I am frequently and often wrong. And am not trying to tell anyone I am right and they are wrong...I just find the discussion interesting.

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    Re: Alan Faneca lobbies for Hines Ward to join him in Canton: 'He is a Hall of Famer'

    @mojoUW

    That is an interesting counterpoint… for the past decade. But, the trend of WRs being expected to block (like actually expected to do a good job at it) changed back on the mid-to-late 2000s.

    And, Yes… that does make us old.

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    Re: Alan Faneca lobbies for Hines Ward to join him in Canton: 'He is a Hall of Famer'

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    @mojoUW

    That is an interesting counterpoint… for the past decade. But, the trend of WRs being expected to block (like actually expected to do a good job at it) changed back on the mid-to-late 2000s.

    And, Yes… that does make us old.
    Ha! I know I’m old and also am fully aware my memory is getting hazier and hazier on this whole thing.

    I’d be interested in folks even older than us (or with a more solid sense of history) weighing on WR blocking in the 50s and 60s.

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    Re: Alan Faneca lobbies for Hines Ward to join him in Canton: 'He is a Hall of Famer'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I get what you are saying and I don't totally disagree. But I have heard yourself and others around the Steelers internet argue that Ward changed the game with this blocking.
    Well, when I say he changed the game with his blocking, I don’t mean that he started a trend of Hines Ward-like WRs, I literally mean he changed the game itself. He is responsible for an actual rule change because he was so effective and devastating at it.

    If you think about it, the NFL made it impossible for there to be another Hines Ward even if another WR did come along with those skills because he’d be unable to legally implement them to the degree that Ward did.

    So he did in fact change the game.

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    Re: Alan Faneca lobbies for Hines Ward to join him in Canton: 'He is a Hall of Famer'

    I really like this discussion and all the talk about training and practicing WRs to block well, while not getting the best results from them, and certainly not results like Ward's. To that I will posit that blocking as a WR takes real skill, but maybe more importantly it also takes the willingness to be that physical and very few WRs want to risk serious injury by physically engaging DBs, and are probably making "business decisions" when blocking. What separates Ward at this point are his toughness and durability and no one was more willing to get physical than Hines. Couple his willingness to block along with his near-indestructability and you've got the holy terror of blocking WRs, and I personally enjoyed hearing other teams bitch about him like he's a defensive back or something.
    “They say you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone. So I got rid of everything to see what I had.” ~ Steven Wright

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    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: Alan Faneca lobbies for Hines Ward to join him in Canton: 'He is a Hall of Famer'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Ha! I know I’m old and also am fully aware my memory is getting hazier and hazier on this whole thing.

    I’d be interested in folks even older than us (or with a more solid sense of history) weighing on WR blocking in the 50s and 60s.
    My dad is older than me (obviously) and thus, he knows how good Swann & Stallworth were. I watched them, but I was too young/didn’t know football as well as I do now. My dad has stated over & over ad nauseum that Hines Ward is the best Steelers receiver to ever play. He admits that AB had more physical talent, making it a tough choice… but, he still says that if he had to choose one Steelers receiver, it would be Ward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    Well, when I say he changed the game with his blocking, I don’t mean that he started a trend of Hines Ward-like WRs, I literally mean he changed the game itself. He is responsible for an actual rule change because he was so effective and devastating at it.

    If you think about it, the NFL made it impossible for there to be another Hines Ward even if another WR did come along with those skills because he’d be unable to legally implement them to the degree that Ward did.

    So he did in fact change the game.
    Bingo!!!

    Akin to the Mel Blount rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Peon View Post
    I really like this discussion and all the talk about training and practicing WRs to block well, while not getting the best results from them, and certainly not results like Ward's. To that I will posit that blocking as a WR takes real skill, but maybe more importantly it also takes the willingness to be that physical and very few WRs want to risk serious injury by physically engaging DBs, and are probably making "business decisions" when blocking. What separates Ward at this point are his toughness and durability and no one was more willing to get physical than Hines. Couple his willingness to block along with his near-indestructability and you've got the holy terror of blocking WRs, and I personally enjoyed hearing other teams bitch about him like he's a defensive back or something.
    Yep

    Other players knew, respected, and feared Ward.

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