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Thread: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

  1. #31
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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    This is a breakdown from one site on what a Canada-run offense looks like:
    https://steelersdepot.com/2021/02/fi...ng-philosophy/

    This is from another site:
    https://stillcurtain.com/2021/01/19/...e-matt-canada/

    And always a third:
    https://coachtube.com/course/footbal...offense/947495

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Ben seems to have a completely different attitude when it comes to adapting and learning the new verbiage than he did when transitioning to Todd Haley’s offense.

    According to this article Ben was engaged in “power struggle” with Randy Fichtner, which I find totally odd as they were like beat buds. Perhaps the author is overstating things.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.esp...3fplatform=amp

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I can see what you are saying, but if you can't throw 500-600+ passes over the course of a season then maybe you shouldn't be a 30 some million dollar NFL QB.

    The accuracy and ball placement issues were there from Week 1. Even when Ben's arm was fresh and the team was running the ball effectively, he still was way off on deep passes and was scattershot with hitting moving targets.
    Yes but you were used to a "standard" with Ben. Now go back to 2019 and remember the Duck & Rudolph and how BAD they were on everything you just described.

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Só why would Ben’s arm be stronger this year? Because he’s older? What is he? 14 years old?
    If anything he’s going to be weaker and more fragile because he’s older

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by EzraTank View Post
    Yes but you were used to a "standard" with Ben. Now go back to 2019 and remember the Duck & Rudolph and how BAD they were on everything you just described.
    Sure. Which is why Ben was/is the “best” option for 2021. But better than Duckdolph doesn’t mean good.

    Say Ben can be the 16th ranked QB…they can win a bunch of games but come playoffs….meh?

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Sure. Which is why Ben was/is the “best” option for 2021. But better than Duckdolph doesn’t mean good.

    Say Ben can be the 16th ranked QB…they can win a bunch of games but come playoffs….meh?
    There are QBs that played much worse and won Super Bowls…and you could argue Ben is one of them.

    Williams, Rypien, Dilfer, Johnson, Namath to name a few. Obviously the good defense (which the Steelers have) and a decent run game (which is debate-able at this point) help but that’s not out of the question even a little bit. A “16th ranked Ben”, a decent running game and a top ranked defense could win a Super Bowl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    There are QBs that played much worse and won Super Bowls…and you could argue Ben is one of them.

    Williams, Rypien, Dilfer, Johnson, Namath to name a few. Obviously the good defense (which the Steelers have) and a decent run game (which is debate-able at this point) help but that’s not out of the question even a little bit. A “16th ranked Ben”, a decent running game and a top ranked defense could win a Super Bowl.
    The most recent of those was 20 years ago. It’s not impossible but it is a zero margin of error situation. If Ben can no longer make top tier QB plays then the Steelers must always win the turnover battle, always significantly outrush the opponent, dominate TOP, and maintain an astounding pass rush.

    All possible but not all probable.

    The two most recent “bad” QBs to win SBs, played lights out in the playoffs to get to the SB. Bens first SB playoff run was great aside from the SB. Then there was “playoff Flacco” who was incredible.

    If you watched the Steelers last season and saw a SB caliber quarterback, you and I have extremely different and likely irreconcilable viewpoints on what a championship team looks like in this version of the NFL.

    Right now I feel that Ben tops out at Jimmy G levels. The 49ers have a dominant run game, a really good line, the best TE in football, skilled receivers, and a high end defense. They looked at all that and decided they needed to trade the farm to take a chance on a high end QB prospect instead of a healthy Jimmy G. That tells me about all I need to know.

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    The Colts with Rivers, the Saints with Brees, and the Giants with Manning all tried a version of the formula described and it didn’t work. In contrast it did work for the Bucs.

    I’ve said before that it could work. It might. I’ll enjoy the season no matter what. I support Ben playing QB this season for a variety of reasons. I have low expectations and have tried to outline why.

  9. #39
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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Ben's limited in what he can do in PA. You can no longer roll him out without worrying about him getting swarmed by defenders. You add his lack of mobility, as well as a piss poor running game...then you get an ineffective playaction game.

    Najee and Freirermuth should help, especially inside the 20, but IMO, we will not be seeing too much play action until we are in the RZ. There's less risk and higher reward in the RZ. Another reason I can't see us utilizing playaction outside of the redzone is due to the 3 point stance of the OL. Tough to run playaction out of 3 point stances with a statue at QB.

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    Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    The most recent of those was 20 years ago. It’s not impossible but it is a zero margin of error situation. If Ben can no longer make top tier QB plays then the Steelers must always win the turnover battle, always significantly outrush the opponent, dominate TOP, and maintain an astounding pass rush.

    All possible but not all probable.

    The two most recent “bad” QBs to win SBs, played lights out in the playoffs to get to the SB. Bens first SB playoff run was great aside from the SB. Then there was “playoff Flacco” who was incredible.

    If you watched the Steelers last season and saw a SB caliber quarterback, you and I have extremely different and likely irreconcilable viewpoints on what a championship team looks like in this version of the NFL.

    Right now I feel that Ben tops out at Jimmy G levels. The 49ers have a dominant run game, a really good line, the best TE in football, skilled receivers, and a high end defense. They looked at all that and decided they needed to trade the farm to take a chance on a high end QB prospect instead of a healthy Jimmy G. That tells me about all I need to know.
    Nick Foles isn’t good. That was only a few years ago. Hell, that whole team wasn’t all that great. You can spin it negative or you can spin it positive…bottom line is QBs, average and below average ones have won Super Bowls with teams similarly designed like the Steelers seem to be building.

    The beginning of the season, Ben was a Super Bowl Caliber QB. To say otherwise is just hating on him and trying to knit pick on him. Is he a Top-10 QB now? Probably not. Is he bottom-10? Probably not. I don’t think anyone would be upset if he was a healthy Jimmy G. With the team that was fielded last season, plus somewhat of a run game, that team could go deep into the playoffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

  11. #41
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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Nick Foles isn’t good. That was only a few years ago. Hell, that whole team wasn’t all that great. You can spin it negative or you can spin it positive…bottom line is QBs, average and below average ones have won Super Bowls with teams similarly designed like the Steelers seem to be building.

    The beginning of the season, Ben was a Super Bowl Caliber QB. To say otherwise is just hating on him and trying to knit pick on him. Is he a Top-10 QB now? Probably not. Is he bottom-10? Probably not. I don’t think anyone would be upset if he was a healthy Jimmy G. With the team that was fielded last season, plus somewhat of a run game, that team could go deep into the playoffs.
    But look at the production that the Iggles coaxed out of Foles in that run. It was excellent. Over 14 yards a completion. 64% completion. 27-2 TD to INT. Those are great #s.

    Same with Goff for like 2 years.

    In both cases the league caught up with the limitations in their games and “poof” they turned into pumpkins.

    Kinda like how when 2020 teams defended like they were playing really good pre-injury Ben, it went okay. Then once they realized they weren’t playing that guy - “poof” - offense craters.

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    like the article says, inept OL and running game may be bigger factors than we think, and pinning the state of the deep passing game on Ben’s arm is very possibly an overreaction, the decision to release Sarret, and rebuild the running game can be more closer to the truth.

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2021/2/27/22303573/the-criticism-of-ben-roethlisberger-needs-to-be-put-into-perspective-pittsburgh-steelers


    I know it’s from February but thought the points made were worth bringing up again
    Last edited by Steeler-in-west; 06-06-2021 at 07:31 PM.

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    Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    But look at the production that the Iggles coaxed out of Foles in that run. It was excellent. Over 14 yards a completion. 64% completion. 27-2 TD to INT. Those are great #s.

    Same with Goff for like 2 years.

    In both cases the league caught up with the limitations in their games and “poof” they turned into pumpkins.

    Kinda like how when 2020 teams defended like they were playing really good pre-injury Ben, it went okay. Then once they realized they weren’t playing that guy - “poof” - offense craters.
    Right. So you sound like you are basing the 2021 season on the 2020 offense which has been allegedly changed and revamped.

    Ben was putting up the “Nick Foles” playoff numbers through the first 11 games (minus ypc). Then things seemed to fizzle off. Nothing definitely says he can’t do that again. Especially if teams come out to defend the short pass and the Steelers offense returns to somewhat normal…

    :dunno:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    There are QBs that played much worse and won Super Bowls…and you could argue Ben is one of them.

    Williams, Rypien, Dilfer, Johnson, Namath to name a few. Obviously the good defense (which the Steelers have) and a decent run game (which is debate-able at this point) help but that’s not out of the question even a little bit. A “16th ranked Ben”, a decent running game and a top ranked defense could win a Super Bowl.
    Exactly, the Broncos won with Peyton in 2016 and Manning was in WAY worse shape at that point of his career then Ben is. Manning "managed" that Superbowl and didn't throw any TD's and he's the #3 guy all time for TD passes. If we can get to a Superbowl this year, I'd be happy with Ben's experience starting the game.

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Who's claiming this other than the media and fans? Has anyone with the Steelers made this claim? I haven't seen it yet.

    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    Yeah I’ve since heard his comments. Honestly it sounds like something he’d say any of the past 5 years. I’ll be happy when I SEE IT.

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic


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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    apparently someone needs to learn the definition of worst ?

    I mean statistically speaking Ben Ran the North last year as its best QB ... but hey never let facts get in the way of a Opinion of a failed GM ... oops did I say failed GM , yep I sure did
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by ETL View Post
    Só why would Ben’s arm be stronger this year? Because he’s older? What is he? 14 years old?
    If anything he’s going to be weaker and more fragile because he’s older
    I am a year older and a year removed from my shoulder surgery, and my arm is stronger so . . .

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    apparently someone needs to learn the definition of worst ?

    I mean statistically speaking Ben Ran the North last year as its best QB ... but hey never let facts get in the way of a Opinion of a failed GM ... oops did I say failed GM , yep I sure did
    Tannenbaum is the GM who selected Mark Sanchez and Vernon Gholston 5th and 6th overall and who also selected a kicker as his first pick in the draft (2nd round).

    I think we see why he doesn't have a position in any front office since 2018, so I take anything he says with a huge grain of salt.

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    Tannenbaum is the GM who selected Mark Sanchez and Vernon Gholston 5th and 6th overall and who also selected a kicker as his first pick in the draft (2nd round).

    I think we see why he doesn't have a position in any front office since 2018, so I take anything he says with a huge grain of salt.
    Well he does seem to know the definition of “worst” from experience...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorhead View Post
    I am a year older and a year removed from my shoulder surgery, and my arm is stronger so . . .
    As happy as I am for you... could we all stop with our injury/recovery comparisons with professional athletes? It couldn't be more apples and oranges.

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    As happy as I am for you... could we all stop with our injury/recovery comparisons with professional athletes? It couldn't be more apples and oranges.
    why ?

    because we do not get the same medical attention ?

    I call bullshit on that one if thats the case , I had my shoulder done 28 years ago and the guy who did it was Jack Failla http://www.theimecenter.com/blank.htm



    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    why ?

    because we do not get the same medical attention ?

    I call bullshit on that one if thats the case , I had my shoulder done 28 years ago and the guy who did it was Jack Failla http://www.theimecenter.com/blank.htm

    how did you hurt your shoulder?

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    how did you hurt your shoulder?


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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    how did you hurt your shoulder?
    was carrying a 5 gallon bucket full of coolant for my cnc machine at work and someone stretched a air hose across the floor between the supply room and my machine , I seen it at the last moment side stepped to go past a coil in the hose and the handle of the bucket caught on the handle of a cabinet door and tore a bunch of shit in my shoulder cause I didnt let go of the bucket of coolant ...
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    why ?

    because we do not get the same medical attention ?

    I call bullshit on that one if thats the case , I had my shoulder done 28 years ago and the guy who did it was Jack Failla http://www.theimecenter.com/blank.htm



    Because what the average Joe is required to do physically after recovery is not remotely close to what an NFL player has to do on a physical level. It has nothing to do with medical treatment.

  28. #58
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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Because what the average Joe is required to do physically after recovery is not remotely close to what an NFL player has to do on a physical level. It has nothing to do with medical treatment.

    there are plenty of jobs that are just as or more physically demanding that playing a sport ..

    if you dont think so go hustle block and mortar for a couple block layers for a day or two , tossing block 2 scaffold high , mixing mud , hoisting it up etc ... that is more of a workout than most people on the planet get on a daily basis for sure , very physically demanding
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    there are plenty of jobs that are just as or more physically demanding that playing a sport ..

    if you dont think so go hustle block and mortar for a couple block layers for a day or two , tossing block 2 scaffold high , mixing mud , hoisting it up etc ... that is more of a workout than most people on the planet get on a daily basis for sure , very physically demanding
    Still not the same. I'm not discounting that some have physically demanding jobs. But I'm referring to the level of athleticism that is required to perform a professional athlete's job. But if you just want to be right, then OK.

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    Re: Roethlisberger in The Athletic

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Still not the same. I'm not discounting that some have physically demanding jobs. But I'm referring to the level of athleticism that is required to perform a professional athlete's job. But if you just want to be right, then OK.
    To the bold I could say the exact same thing , I mean this is the FIRST time you are using the word athleticism as the argument , before it was physically demanding two completely different arguments

    Originally Posted by DesertSteel
    Because what the average Joe is required to do physically after recovery is not remotely close to what an NFL player has to do on a physical level. It has nothing to do with medical treatment.
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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