Will The Steelers Make Any More Oline Additions?

[86WARD]

Because Moses isn’t really that good. I mean WFT decided to remake their entire OT group, that’s how enamored they were with his play.

And he’s gonna cost $5-8 million against the cap. He also potentially blocks the evaluation and development of Chuks, Banner, and draft pick dude.

If they wanted veteran competition, they should’ve just kept AV who is an actual LT.

I would much rather they scour the wire for young, cheap, and potential. Find the next AV or Banner or Beachum. Not really interested in decent at best OTs with no growth potential that cost cap space the team doesn’t have.

Why does Moses have to play LT?

There’s plenty of other veteran talent out there...why not bring it in. Whether it be Moses or a different guy, the competition can’t hurt. I cannot grasp the concept that you wouldn’t want to add it. Moses is the example we’ve been using. He’s experienced, played on a shitty team...why not take a chance on a $5M OT with plenty of experience? AV was bad. We know how that story goes. Would be a terrible signing. Moses...you don’t know if he’s bad with this group. You just don’t.

As far as cap space goes...they have plenty to get depth and plenty of opportunity to find more if they had to. Cap space should never be an excuse not to improve the depth on the team...especially with this team and on this message board. The Steelers know how to find cap space if they want it.

[86WARD]

Moses play declined some last year and he is almost 30. There is a reason WFT released him, and I see no reason for the Stleers to try and sign him unless he comes for cheap, which to me would be in the range of 1 to 2 million for next year. I am sure some team will pay him more though.

Not true. His play improved from 2019 to 2020 and his release was two fold...salary cap and they drafted Cosmi. They also added Flowers due to his ability to play multiple positions so it was more that Moses was a casualty not because they thought he was bad.

[Mojouw]

Why does Moses have to play LT?

There’s plenty of other veteran talent out there...why not bring it in. Whether it be Moses or a different guy, the competition can’t hurt. I cannot grasp the concept that you wouldn’t want to add it. Moses is the example we’ve been using. He’s experienced, played on a shitty team...why not take a chance on a $5M OT with plenty of experience? AV was bad. We know how that story goes. Would be a terrible signing. Moses...you don’t know if he’s bad with this group. You just don’t.

As far as cap space goes...they have plenty to get depth and plenty of opportunity to find more if they had to. Cap space should never be an excuse not to improve the depth on the team...especially with this team and on this message board. The Steelers know how to find cap space if they want it.

Of course you can always find cap space. But finding that cap space has consequences. Take a look at the math and details here: https://steelersdepot.com/2021/05/ad...with-steelers/. Say what you all will about Steelers Depot and Dave Bryan, but he usually gets the cap stuff nailed down. Here it walks through how the team has basically zero dollars to spend (ok. a bit more...but certainly not $5-8 million): https://steelersdepot.com/2021/05/st...okie-minicamp/

So Moses costs you Chuks or an equivalent roughly $3 million salary. So Vince Williams? Derek Watt? Someone would have to go.

Currently the team is spending under $6 million on both their projected starting tackles: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/cap/#

So what does Moses do that is TWICE to THREE times as good as either Banner or Chuks? Because that is decision. Pay Moses 2+x's your current OTs and turn around and cut one of them.

Anytime a team cuts a guy because of salary and the ability to sign/draft younger and cheaper players as replacements mean that they don't think the player is all that good.

Finally, none of Moses, Banner, or Chuks is a "proven" LT. But we have training camp for Banner and the 2020 season for Chuks to say that they can play adequate RT. For 50% the cost of Moses. Say you sign Moses, you gotta gamble then that one of the three (Banner, Chuks, Moses) can step-up and play LT. Most likely you are going to have to have it be one of two guys because you cut Banner or Chuks to get Moses on the roster. So what did you gain there? Media plaudits for landing an experienced OT? Remember, Tomlin and Co think Banner is a top-end OT in the NFL. They also drafted Chuks to be the LT after AV. Are they right, I don't know and neither do they...but it is a gamble anyways -- so why not take the cheaper gamble?

Like I said earlier...let's not sign the pricier veteran RT (this is not like when Flozell was signed) and play weird roster games to make it work. Look around for the next AV, Beachum, Fred Johnson, Ramon Foster, or Banner. Young, cheap, over-looked and with massive upside. That's where this team has had success in the past with offensive line depth signings. Why not go to that well again?

Save what little pennies they may have for a DB or OLB signing. Those two positions are typically much harder to find UDFA's and younger players that can step in and perform.

[86WARD]

Of course you can always find cap space. But finding that cap space has consequences. Take a look at the math and details here: https://steelersdepot.com/2021/05/ad...with-steelers/. Say what you all will about Steelers Depot and Dave Bryan, but he usually gets the cap stuff nailed down. Here it walks through how the team has basically zero dollars to spend (ok. a bit more...but certainly not $5-8 million): https://steelersdepot.com/2021/05/st...okie-minicamp/

So Moses costs you Chuks or an equivalent roughly $3 million salary. So Vince Williams? Derek Watt? Someone would have to go.

Currently the team is spending under $6 million on both their projected starting tackles: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/cap/#

So what does Moses do that is TWICE to THREE times as good as either Banner or Chuks? Because that is decision. Pay Moses 2+x's your current OTs and turn around and cut one of them.

Anytime a team cuts a guy because of salary and the ability to sign/draft younger and cheaper players as replacements mean that they don't think the player is all that good.

Finally, none of Moses, Banner, or Chuks is a "proven" LT. But we have training camp for Banner and the 2020 season for Chuks to say that they can play adequate RT. For 50% the cost of Moses. Say you sign Moses, you gotta gamble then that one of the three (Banner, Chuks, Moses) can step-up and play LT. Most likely you are going to have to have it be one of two guys because you cut Banner or Chuks to get Moses on the roster. So what did you gain there? Media plaudits for landing an experienced OT? Remember, Tomlin and Co think Banner is a top-end OT in the NFL. They also drafted Chuks to be the LT after AV. Are they right, I don't know and neither do they...but it is a gamble anyways -- so why not take the cheaper gamble?

Like I said earlier...let's not sign the pricier veteran RT (this is not like when Flozell was signed) and play weird roster games to make it work. Look around for the next AV, Beachum, Fred Johnson, Ramon Foster, or Banner. Young, cheap, over-looked and with massive upside. That's where this team has had success in the past with offensive line depth signings. Why not go to that well again?

Save what little pennies they may have for a DB or OLB signing. Those two positions are typically much harder to find UDFA's and younger players that can step in and perform.

Still not seeing an issue with cap space even a little bit. There will be plenty of off setting players that will be cut that aren’t named Williams or Watt. If they want to spend $3M on another OT, they’ll find a way. Cap space again, it’s not that big an issue. These guys know what they are doing.

I mean you’re looking for a LT and you’ve said that there’s not a proven one on the roster. You’re willing to go up until roster cuts to figure out that maybe you don’t have one? Not me...I’d rather gamble on finding one out of three potentials than two any day and if one of them is another veteran whose play has improved over a year or so, what’s it going to hurt?

How many times are you going to go to the same well before that well runs dry and you are stuck with two RTs on your team and no protection for your QBs blind side? Then you’re back to the fastest passing offense in the history of the league and we all know how that turns out.

[Mojouw]

Still not seeing an issue with cap space even a little bit. There will be plenty of off setting players that will be cut that aren’t named Williams or Watt. If they want to spend $3M on another OT, they’ll find a way. Cap space again, it’s not that big an issue. These guys know what they are doing.

I mean you’re looking for a LT and you’ve said that there’s not a proven one on the roster. You’re willing to go up until roster cuts to figure out that maybe you don’t have one? Not me...I’d rather gamble on finding one out of three potentials than two any day and if one of them is another veteran whose play has improved over a year or so, what’s it going to hurt?

How many times are you going to go to the same well before that well runs dry and you are stuck with two RTs on your team and no protection for your QBs blind side? Then you’re back to the fastest passing offense in the history of the league and we all know how that turns out.

Well since they don’t have 5-8 million in cap space, it’s all kind of a moot point. The linked articles lay out a detailed picture of the cap situation. If you’re able to find 5-8 million bucks and not cut an important current rostered player, might want to give the team a call because they don’t know how to do it.

Again, Moses hasn’t played LT since college. Why do you keep assuming he’s better at it than the younger and cheaper guys on the roster?

[86WARD]

Well since they don’t have 5-8 million in cap space, it’s all kind of a moot point. The linked articles lay out a detailed picture of the cap situation. If you’re able to find 5-8 million bucks and not cut an important current rostered player, might want to give the team a call because they don’t know how to do it.

Again, Moses hasn’t played LT since college. Why do you keep assuming he’s better at it than the younger and cheaper guys on the roster?

If the Steelers want to find cap space, they'll find cap space...especially that little amount. Least of the worries here and not really the topic of debate.

I'm having trouble finding where I said that Moses is going to be better at RT or LT than Chuks or Banner. The thing I am not understanding is why some wouldn't want to add a veteran OT who was ranked in the Top-20 in the league. I'd personally much rather have a stable of three OTs battling for two spots than two. One of which we don't know how he is going to recover from the torn ACL. We assume he will be fine, but what if it turns out he is not or what if he does and he plays LT better than anyone on the roster? Is Moses (or another veteran) a better RT than Chuks? Maybe, maybe not...

[Mojouw]

If the Steelers want to find cap space, they'll find cap space...especially that little amount. Least of the worries here and not really the topic of debate.

I'm having trouble finding where I said that Moses is going to be better at RT or LT than Chuks or Banner. The thing I am not understanding is why some wouldn't want to add a veteran OT who was ranked in the Top-20 in the league. I'd personally much rather have a stable of three OTs battling for two spots than two. One of which we don't know how he is going to recover from the torn ACL. We assume he will be fine, but what if it turns out he is not or what if he does and he plays LT better than anyone on the roster? Is Moses (or another veteran) a better RT than Chuks? Maybe, maybe not...

So you are taking a team that is currently projected to be over the cap by $3 million and change is gonna come up with $8 million in cap space? How does that work?

Again, to add Moses to the roster you have to cut one or more $3-4 million contracts.

Again, who and why? Contract matches are Enron, VW, the not important Watt, Boswell, Edmunds, Minkah, Juju, and Alualu + Wormley.

Moses is a good NFL RT. But looking at the totality of the salary cap and roster construction puzzle for 2021, he makes no sense.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I doubt they ad any more on the O line, other than maybe another cheap FA.

-They are returning veterans DeCastro, Okorafor, Banner.
-They have Kevin Dotson, who was on the all-rookie team last season.
-They picked up some vets to compete like Finney, Haeg, Aviante Collins and Rashaad Coward
-They are returning some guy that were on the practice squad like Jarron Jones, Hassenauer and John Leglue
-Steelers spent 2 draft pics on Green and Moore Jr, that they are very high on.

I think Coach Klemm has enough guys in the room, now its his job to get them to perform and get the best 8 or 9 on the 53 man roster.

[st33lersguy]

At this point all they can probably afford is the Jonathan Scott/Sean Mahan bottom of the barrel type of signings (sorry if I accidentally triggered bad memories for anyone including Ben)

[86WARD]

So you are taking a team that is currently projected to be over the cap by $3 million and change is gonna come up with $8 million in cap space? How does that work?

Again, to add Moses to the roster you have to cut one or more $3-4 million contracts.

Again, who and why? Contract matches are Enron, VW, the not important Watt, Boswell, Edmunds, Minkah, Juju, and Alualu + Wormley.

Moses is a good NFL RT. But looking at the totality of the salary cap and roster construction puzzle for 2021, he makes no sense.

Again, if they want to find space, they will. They are pretty good doing what they do. So if they want Moses and he wants to be in Pittsburgh, they’ll get Moses. I mean how many times do people continue to say that they can’t sign this guy or that guy and they are in cap hell blah, blah, blah...it’s actually very tiresome at this point. There were supposed to be mass cuttings this past off season and look at the team now. Just fine.

So what happens if Banner can’t perform because of his ACL? You’d be content with just letting Moore handle the RT or LT duties opposed to bring some sort of veteran in to compete for the position? All I’m saying is it’s not a terrible idea to bring one in. Maybe they do, maybe they don’t...but it certainly wouldn’t hurt.

[Mojouw]

Again, if they want to find space, they will. They are pretty good doing what they do. So if they want Moses and he wants to be in Pittsburgh, they’ll get Moses. I mean how many times do people continue to say that they can’t sign this guy or that guy and they are in cap hell blah, blah, blah...it’s actually very tiresome at this point. There were supposed to be mass cuttings this past off season and look at the team now. Just fine.

So what happens if Banner can’t perform because of his ACL? You’d be content with just letting Moore handle the RT or LT duties opposed to bring some sort of veteran in to compete for the position? All I’m saying is it’s not a terrible idea to bring one in. Maybe they do, maybe they don’t...but it certainly wouldn’t hurt.

They have two players they can restructure for decent-ish money: Tuitt and Boswell. The $$$ freed up from those restructures will be needed to get cap compliant as the off-season progress. Right now, without those restructures they will be about $3 million OVER the cap by the start of the regular season. So the Steelers (and many other NFL teams) primary method for creating cap space has been taken off the table through a combination of player contract status and the lowered cap this league year.

The other way "go-to" for the team to create salary cap space is to extend someone. Looking at their cap table for 2021, there is only ONE player whose extension could maybe free up some cap space: TJ Watt. That's it.

The final method for creating cap space is to release players and do the "top 51 who count on the cap dance". Look at the salary table (here it is again...https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/cap/#). Decastro and Haden are the only currently rostered players where you free up a "chunk" of cap space (assuming the dead cap-cap hit math is accurate). I wouldn't be in a rush to release my starting CB and RG in order to bring in competition at OT.

I am in favor of a team always making their roster deeper, more competitive, and all of that. But, as much as you get annoyed at the "no cap space" as a response...it drives me nuts that every time some vet with starting experience gets released, the Steelers internet clamors for the team to sign them with no consideration of the cap math or the impact on roster construction.

Bringing in more o-line competition is a good idea. Bringing in $5-8 million dollars of 2021 salary cap hit of o-line competition is not. The two points can both be true at the same time.

[Shoes]

Well they added Turner & Green anyone else?