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Thread: Improving Drops.

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    Improving Drops.

    For the sake of discussion and to hopefully avoid any ‘who’s at fault’ arguments let’s use the assumption Ben throws with accuracy and the OL gives sufficient time for routes to develop. The question is, ‘How do you fix the dropped passes problem’? For instance, DJ’s 16 drops led the league in 2020. What is the fix? When it was Coates half of us blamed his gross finger injury, but that never got better. Half of us claimed this is just what he brings as a receiver. That also never improved.

    The talk about Freiermuth and his LACK of drops tells me the skill is teachable. We watched AB’s offseason workouts with awe and pride. (Before the fall) Eric Ebron added 7 drops to the 2020 totals but Ebron was used very differently than DJ, so is there a different fix for Ebron’s drop issues?

    Maybe the fix is Freirmuth takes Ebron’s snaps and by association eliminates those drops. By that same process maybe DJ sees fewer snaps while JuJu moves to the X and Claypool slides inside leaving Wash to be the Z, all the while the total number of dropped balls falls completely off the chart. The skills Harris brings is just icing on the improvement cake.

    But....that is probably a bit too optimistic. So, answer please the question, how do you fix the drops?

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    I think it’s fear of being laid the eff out, with the knowing of the hit to come.

    IMO it’s mental… longevity of career in the backs of their mind, puts that minuscule doubt in their mental ability to trust their craft.


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    Re: Improving Drops.

    I think it’s different for each player.

    Enron is what he is at this point - capable of the jaw dropping grab and also dropping “easy” ones.

    Same, to a degree, with DJ.

    I think both know they can make plays on the move, so they try to move before they’ve completed the catch. If not physically, certainly mentally.

    The only “external” thing I can think of is to ditch the “throw short, run long” stuff or at least balance it with other throws and runs to change the alignment of the defense. Not make the offensive guys so focused on needing to make the catch AND make a guy miss.

    I don’t know how true this may be but if it was 3rd and 7, I’m running a 3 yard route, and I know the defense has everyone packed within 5 yards of scrimmage - I might be focused on what is happening after the catch.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Good thoughts.

    I am fairly sure we have all been with friends or our kids or dads or whomever, and just having a toss. Sometimes running a route for the fun of it. All just out in the yard or cove or wherever. There have always been those moments when you drop a pass that you catch 9of10 times. And you always know immediately what you did or didn’t do. There is no money coming for catching, nor is there someone coming to lay you out once you make the catch, yet the drops happen. Is this translatable to pro athletes? Probably not but it all starts there for the majority of everyone.

    I’m of the thought I want to see DJ posting himself working in the offseason making 1-armed catches while planking with the other arm. I want to see IG and FB and Twitter feeds with our guys practicing toe tap sideline catches. I want to see route running drills with moving to the catchpoint and maybe even some ballet lesson footage.

    We constantly hear and read athletes talk about perfecting their craft. If the drops in 2020 are fundamentally mental mistakes and focus lapse, how do you fix that? I’ve never been a pass catcher. I don’t know but I am very curious.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I think it’s different for each player.

    Enron is what he is at this point - capable of the jaw dropping grab and also dropping “easy” ones.

    Same, to a degree, with DJ.

    I think both know they can make plays on the move, so they try to move before they’ve completed the catch. If not physically, certainly mentally.

    The only “external” thing I can think of is to ditch the “throw short, run long” stuff or at least balance it with other throws and runs to change the alignment of the defense. Not make the offensive guys so focused on needing to make the catch AND make a guy miss.

    I don’t know how true this may be but if it was 3rd and 7, I’m running a 3 yard route, and I know the defense has everyone packed within 5 yards of scrimmage - I might be focused on what is happening after the catch.

    to the bold ....

    I see what ya did there .... it can pay HUGE dividends , but when the bottom falls out it really falls out ( intentional or not it was a good comp ) , maybe that should be his nick name
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    to the bold ....

    I see what ya did there .... it can pay HUGE dividends , but when the bottom falls out it really falls out ( intentional or not it was a good comp ) , maybe that should be his nick name
    I wish I could take credit for it! But you’re right, it is a happy accident we should stick with!

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by CV1 View Post
    I think it’s fear of being laid the eff out, with the knowing of the hit to come.

    IMO it’s mental… longevity of career in the backs of their mind, puts that minuscule doubt in their mental ability to trust their craft.


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    Ben is very good about not getting his receivers lit up. Manning was terrible for that. Brady worse too just ask Welker.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloydwoodsonjr View Post
    Ben is very good about not getting his receivers lit up. Manning was terrible for that. Brady worse too just ask Welker.
    if only we would run more.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloydwoodsonjr View Post
    Ben is very good about not getting his receivers lit up. Manning was terrible for that. Brady worse too just ask Welker.
    It’s not a Ben thing though… he’s not dropping the balls

    I do agree that Ben does a good job with the calls, I still believe it’s a mental thing with the receiving corps.

    Hitting the OPs question though of what can be done? I have no idea what can be done for the mental end albeit fear or thinking of yacs before the rock is secured.

    I’m curious though of those with the bulk of drops, how many of them got wrecked on the field, there is probably a strong correlation.


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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Here is a line from a scouting report of Dionte Johnson from his draft year. I remember that was his reputation coming out of college, so with reference to the OP talking about his "drops", some info that it should not be surprising.

    The athleticism and quickness should allow for a wide range of usage on offense but his hands might always be a concern for him.

    https://www.nfl.com/prospects/dionta...a-a554dee114ed

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    I have NEVER understood how guys can claim to be so passionate about their "Craft", yet they do not put in nearly the work that would be possible if they wanted to bad enough. I think most of em figure that they already got here, so they must be good....enough. I think DJ needs to spend countless hours with a jugs machine and one arm tied behind his back. Practice makes perfect if you practice perfectly.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    I think that some players could stand in front of JUGS machine and catch thousands of passes a day and would still have suspect hands. At the level of the NFL...I think there are just some things you have and some things you don't. Once you get to that high level of competition/performance...I don't think just sheer hours of practice can always "fix"a deficit. I feel like every player can get better at many things through practice and refinement in technique...but there is a plateau for each guy that past that...it just isn't happening.

    Not that I really know...

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by bendsteel View Post
    I have NEVER understood how guys can claim to be so passionate about their "Craft", yet they do not put in nearly the work that would be possible if they wanted to bad enough. I think most of em figure that they already got here, so they must be good....enough. I think DJ needs to spend countless hours with a jugs machine and one arm tied behind his back. Practice makes perfect if you practice perfectly.
    Have you ever heard somebody say, "I'm just not good at math"...or a young athlete say "I'm not a good free throw shooter", "he's a better skater than I am"..? Or a person you know say " I don't like sushi", "I cant eat Brussel sprouts"

    The attitude comes with a belief that people are who they are and cannot change. Situations are what they are and they cannot change. So people with this "fixed mindset" believe their "talents" are what they are and cannot be drastically improved by increased effort. They are just their "talents" or "deficiencies".

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    The jugs machine won't hurt the process. Every player has drops(except Freiermuth apparently), but leading the league in drops means it's an issue. If a RB has fumble issues it either gets fixed or he loses his job. Should it be any different for a WR with drop issues? Not picking on DJ but HE led the entire NFL in drops so he's getting called out here. Any instances of receivers improving themselves in this respect that any of you guys can think of?

    This article talks about ways of coaching players to be better receivers; https://blogs.usafootball.com/blog/6...eiver-catching

    This article was interesting in comparing what WRs do bad(drops) to what they do good(moving chains/scoring/etc);
    https://www.thebackyardbanter.com/fi...ers-drops.html

    And this article talks more about grading and analyzing a WR based on traits;
    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...wide-receivers

    Although none of these talk about 'fixing drops' specifically they do bring some interesting perspective to the conversation.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    I think the Steelers receivers are asked to catch short and run long. Catch the short pass, and run for daylight and try not to get killed in the process. They're focused on running/not getting lit up by jumping DB's before actually catching the ball.

    A few bouts on the jugs machine and calling for passes that travel longer than ten yards might help a little bit.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    As I mentioned on the day that DJ was drafted, his route running is some of the best we would see… but, his DROPS would drive us insane.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    As I mentioned on the day that DJ was drafted, his route running is some of the best we would see… but, his DROPS would drive us insane.
    It seems the more I read on the subject the more it seems to be a mental/confidence issue first. The solution seems to be more reps and more reps. Either the player climbs out of it or sinks further.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Why could AB or juju catch balls in traffic but DJ has trouble? Maybe AB and juju can see out of the corner of their eye for oncoming DB’s and still concentrate on catching the ball, DJ or Ebron haven’t developed that yet

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west View Post
    Why could AB or juju catch balls in traffic but DJ has trouble? Maybe AB and juju can see out of the corner of their eye for oncoming DB’s and still concentrate on catching the ball, DJ or Ebron haven’t developed that yet
    I think DJ is afraid to get hit. Ever notice after he catches a ball he usually takes a dive before getting hit.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Again, this is not a blame/trash thread. Trying to understand more than call out.

    In 2020 DJ has 88receptions. Averaged 10.5 yards per catch. Over half were for 1st downs. 10 went for 20 yards or more and 7 were TDs. Those are not bad numbers. Are his drops mental or physical? Something that can be trained out of him?

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Again, this is not a blame/trash thread. Trying to understand more than call out.

    In 2020 DJ has 88receptions. Averaged 10.5 yards per catch. Over half were for 1st downs. 10 went for 20 yards or more and 7 were TDs. Those are not bad numbers. Are his drops mental or physical? Something that can be trained out of him?
    Wasn’t there a time everyone wrote Amari Cooper off as a dropasauras and then he shows well in Dallas and no one cared anymore?

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Wasn’t there a time everyone wrote Amari Cooper off as a dropasauras and then he shows well in Dallas and no one cared anymore?
    Not sure I remember a time when anybody that knows about football ever wrote off a guy that had 228 receptions, 3400 yards and 31 TD's, during his 3 seasons at Alabama. Maybe some knee jerk reaction to him having a down year, but then they realized he was with the Raiders and that place was a gong show.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Not sure I remember a time when anybody that knows about football ever wrote off a guy that had 228 receptions, 3400 yards and 31 TD's, during his 3 seasons at Alabama. Maybe some knee jerk reaction to him having a down year, but then they realized he was with the Raiders and that place was a gong show.
    I didn’t say they were right just that a short Google search will show that it happened. Is DJ in the same category? Almost certainly not. But one bad year may still not be a certain pattern. Or it may be. Time will tell.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I didn’t say they were right just that a short Google search will show that it happened. Is DJ in the same category? Almost certainly not. But one bad year may still not be a certain pattern. Or it may be. Time will tell.
    If anybody "wrote off" Amari Cooper, they were idiots or media dropping a hot take for attention. Too much history of performance and evidence of production to be "written off".

    Dionte Johnson had drop issues in college, it was in his scouting profile for the draft. You can see he takes his eyes off the ball at times and double catches the ball at times. Its definitely a pattern, a trend, a trait of the player currently. Whether he addresses it to improve his rate of drops or not remains to be seen.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    If anybody "wrote off" Amari Cooper, they were idiots or media dropping a hot take for attention. Too much history of performance and evidence of production to be "written off".

    Dionte Johnson had drop issues in college, it was in his scouting profile for the draft. You can see he takes his eyes off the ball at times and double catches the ball at times. Its definitely a pattern, a trend, a trait of the player currently. Whether he addresses it to improve his rate of drops or not remains to be seen.
    He was good in college...but as you pointed out in the RB thread, not everyone in college is "on scholarship". When Cooper was traded to the Cowboys he had the highest percent of dropped passes in the league out of all WRs from 2015-2018 (https://twitter.com/CBSSportsHQ/stat...26098511380480) and there were multiple people that claimed to know about the NFL (former players, front office sources, etc) that were questioning whether Cooper was a "true #1 WR" since most of his Raiders production had been with Crabtree and then he had a down year prior to being traded. His work ethic, conditioning, mental approach, and technique were all questioned. And many of the same (former players, front office sources, etc) said that Cooper would be fine once he got out of Oakland.

    While I am not claiming that DJ or Cooper are similar players...I am claiming that Cooper dropped a number of passes and still occasionally drops a few big ones (https://www.al.com/sports/2019/10/co...yard-game.html) to this day. But his overall impact in the offense means very few people are still worrying about Cooper and drops.

    Say DJ is target over 100 times next year. Has single digit drops, catches a handful of touchdowns, and continues to convert on third downs...does the narrative change on him?

    This article can be viewed as playing funny math games https://steelersdepot.com/2020/12/dr...at-look/...but it says to me that if DJ drops like 4 less passes last season he has stats similar to Stefon Diggs. In his second NFL season...

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    He was good in college...but as you pointed out in the RB thread, not everyone in college is "on scholarship". When Cooper was traded to the Cowboys he had the highest percent of dropped passes in the league out of all WRs from 2015-2018 (https://twitter.com/CBSSportsHQ/stat...26098511380480) and there were multiple people that claimed to know about the NFL (former players, front office sources, etc) that were questioning whether Cooper was a "true #1 WR" since most of his Raiders production had been with Crabtree and then he had a down year prior to being traded. His work ethic, conditioning, mental approach, and technique were all questioned. And many of the same (former players, front office sources, etc) said that Cooper would be fine once he got out of Oakland.

    While I am not claiming that DJ or Cooper are similar players...I am claiming that Cooper dropped a number of passes and still occasionally drops a few big ones (https://www.al.com/sports/2019/10/co...yard-game.html) to this day. But his overall impact in the offense means very few people are still worrying about Cooper and drops.

    Say DJ is target over 100 times next year. Has single digit drops, catches a handful of touchdowns, and continues to convert on third downs...does the narrative change on him?

    This article can be viewed as playing funny math games https://steelersdepot.com/2020/12/dr...at-look/...but it says to me that if DJ drops like 4 less passes last season he has stats similar to Stefon Diggs. In his second NFL season...
    Sure, a lot of outside noise on Amari Cooper back then. Question, how many 1,000 yd receiving seasons did Cooper have in his 3years in Oakland. How many 1,000 yard receiving seasons did Amari Cooper have in his 3 years in Dallas? Look those up and tell me that any sane GM, Owner, Coach who had "written him off" was.

    As for the "funny math games" that you point out in that article, its all just things you can use to present a point of view that fits the narrative the person using the stats wants to. He either leads the league in drop percentage or he is 4 less drops from being middle of the pack. Its like back in the day Willie Colon was "getting a penalty on every down", when he actually got 13 penalties in 19 games. So only 4 fewer penalties and Willie Colon didnt get that many penalties.

    I know the "eye test" freaks out a lot of people here, but if you watched the player play some games, you can see DJ has focus drop issues and while he doesnt fight the football like Sammie Coates did, he often doesnt cushion the ball when receiving it. The "eye test" with Ebron shows that he has a lot of double catches and doesnt catch the ball cleanly. That is why I pointed it out early last year when I saw him in B&G.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Sure, a lot of outside noise on Amari Cooper back then. Question, how many 1,000 yd receiving seasons did Cooper have in his 3years in Oakland. How many 1,000 yard receiving seasons did Amari Cooper have in his 3 years in Dallas? Look those up and tell me that any sane GM, Owner, Coach who had "written him off" was.

    As for the "funny math games" that you point out in that article, its all just things you can use to present a point of view that fits the narrative the person using the stats wants to. He either leads the league in drop percentage or he is 4 less drops from being middle of the pack. Its like back in the day Willie Colon was "getting a penalty on every down", when he actually got 13 penalties in 19 games. So only 4 fewer penalties and Willie Colon didnt get that many penalties.

    I know the "eye test" freaks out a lot of people here, but if you watched the player play some games, you can see DJ has focus drop issues and while he doesnt fight the football like Sammie Coates did, he often doesnt cushion the ball when receiving it. The "eye test" with Ebron shows that he has a lot of double catches and doesnt catch the ball cleanly. That is why I pointed it out early last year when I saw him in B&G.
    Well, I guess one would be the GM who shipped him out of Oakland before his rookie deal expired. And I guess another might be the however many GM's who hear Oakland's asking price and decided not to trade for him. Another might be the Dallas brain trust that spent how many seasons dithering about his contract?

    I don't think there was this universal consensus that Amari Cooper was a no questions asked #1 NFL WR. I don't care what round he was drafted in or where he played his college ball.

    No one is doubting the assessment that you and others have made about DJ. Yes, he has focus issues and can drop the ball. No debate or discussion.

    The debate or discussion is what that means for a WR entering year 3 of his NFL career. I intentionally picked Cooper because he is a WR that is almost universally lauded right now in the NFL. He had drop issues earlier in his career and his talent, dedication, and value were all questioned. Davante Adams is another WR that struggled with dropping what seemed like easy passes early in his career - now rarely an issue. So either the drops can change or the perception of the player can change. Maybe both?

    DJ, to me, is the kind of WR that is always going to drop a # of passes per year. He is and likely always will be a punt returner by instinct. He wants to get the ball and move. I think he will have several "routine" passes a year where he forgets to complete the catch before his brain has moved on to the next 3 things he is going to do. This tendency is going to be exacerbated by an offensive game-plan that tends to get him the ball 2-5 yards short of the marker with defenders flying at him.

    Now if he continues to see over 100 targets a season. Catching 80-90 balls, scoring 6-8 TDs, and generally converting a decent # of first downs -- I can certainly live with a percentage of drops. If he can keep the drop % to like 7 or 8...I think he will be a highly productive player that will be well worth his initial draft investment and a second contract. If he continues to keep it around 10-12%, then the team likely has to question what his role is moving forward.

    For Ebron, again your point holds and I have never debated it. Ebron, the drops bother me less because I am willing to live with them a bit because the team isn't really paying him that much and didn't draft him in the first round. A guy with Ebron's mismatch potential for the relatively low cost investment, I can live with some drops. For Ebron, I don't think they will ever change much. Just like his blocking. He is who he is as a player.

    For DJ...he might still have some room for refinement and development that moves him past his drop issues. There are many guys who did as early career WRs and there are many who didn't. Not sure why this is a controversial take...

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Dionte Johnson had drop issues in college, he has drop issues as a pro. He can do things to improve his catching of the football and it likely involves work on his own time, his own initiative, with a coach or trainer he would employ. But he has to want to improve and take the steps to do it.

    I dont know that he ever has a 90 catch season, unless the Steelers decide to abandon the run game and play a June Jones run n shoot offense, because he is at best a #2 WR in the NFL and more likely a #3.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Dionte Johnson had drop issues in college, he has drop issues as a pro. He can do things to improve his catching of the football and it likely involves work on his own time, his own initiative, with a coach or trainer he would employ. But he has to want to improve and take the steps to do it.

    I dont know that he ever has a 90 catch season, unless the Steelers decide to abandon the run game and play a June Jones run n shoot offense, because he is at best a #2 WR in the NFL and more likely a #3.
    He caught 88 passes last season. Not sure it’s a big stretch to see him catching 2 more.

    If he continues to play the “x” or whatever, he’s going to see a high number of targets almost regardless of offense.

    While you see him as a complementary player, the Steelers clearly see him as one of their primary pass catchers.

    This season or next will certainly tell which version of DJ is the more accurate forecast.

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    Re: Improving Drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    He caught 88 passes last season. Not sure it’s a big stretch to see him catching 2 more.

    If he continues to play the “x” or whatever, he’s going to see a high number of targets almost regardless of offense.

    While you see him as a complementary player, the Steelers clearly see him as one of their primary pass catchers.

    This season or next will certainly tell which version of DJ is the more accurate forecast.
    There may be less balls being tossed around though in 2021. He could possibly catch less passes (all the receivers could) but they could have an overall better season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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