The Steelers select TE Pat Freiermuth #55 overall

[86WARD]

It seems like your biggest complaints have been that you don’t want any players that need some sort of development? Is that a fair assessment? I mean negatives can be found in every single draft profile out there and if you want to take a negative narrative on any player, anyone could do it. I mean you could probably do one on Trevor Lawrence if someone wanted to. I’m not picking on you...you have the right to your opinions but just seems like the negative narrative is the path you are looking to take. Which is fine...I tend to do the same as well sometimes.

[86WARD]

Example?

Trevor Lawrence has some major flaws. Not a guarantee overall pick. He’s too lanky which could lead to chest/leg injury. He has a hitch in his throwing motion which could continue to prevent accurate passes. Passes tend to sail. Will need work on throwing motion. Trevor doesn’t always go through reads. Tends to lock onto first read. Also tends to throw behind targets. Tends to do too much in offense.

I mean Lawrence doesn’t sound like a number one pick...

[Shoes]

So...as of today...he is tall with a big frame. That is it?

He needs to run better routes, learn how to block, and get faster/stronger?

Again...I am having a hard time understanding how this guy isn't considered one of the most over-rated prospects. If the 2021 class wasn't so shallow...would anyone really be excited about this guy as a second round pick?

This is a sample of some of the more negative scouting reports that are out there: https://weeklyspiral.com/2021/02/03/...rt-baby-gronk/
"A huge part of blocking is desire and technique and once Freiermuth starts showing those things, he has the strength needed to be an asset in the run game."

I get that almost all TEs are developmental projects for the NFL (I often make that exact argument) but from a tool around the internet this weekend, it appears that Freiermuth is essentially ALL projection based on his size and his hands. That, for me, puts him right in line with a laundry list of Steelers TE draft picks that were also tall and had soft hands. And then didn't do a whole heckuva lot in the NFL. But this time, instead of being selected in rounds 5-7...they did it in round 2.

I understand that the Steelers clearly have a type of TE they are looking for. This dude looks the part...but I do not think he is ready for prime-time and I strongly question any prospect who is being sold because "look he is big and SHOULD be able to block" while being asked to ignore the fact that he isn't very good at it.

So what do you expect from a rookie? I mean go back and listen to the entire Steeler O & D after they shit the bed during the season. They sound like a bunch of guys who haven't learned the basic's of football. " we need to block better" "we need to run better", "I need to throw the ball better" "we need to tackle better" etc. This kid will make a difference at the TE position for the Steelers in 2021. I'm sure of it.

[Mojouw]

It seems like your biggest complaints have been that you don’t want any players that need some sort of development? Is that a fair assessment? I mean negatives can be found in every single draft profile out there and if you want to take a negative narrative on any player, anyone could do it. I mean you could probably do one on Trevor Lawrence if someone wanted to.

That's not really it. I just don't think at pick 55 overall that I am all that interested in a player whose being sold as IF he blocks like scouts predict because of his size he MIGHT be a pretty good player.

This guy went at the top of the 5th round and is basically the exact same size and I think viewed as a bit faster - https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/luke-farrell and most scouting reports I have read have his blocking above Freiermuth's now with same arguments about the ability to develop/improve.

I don't have a great deal to back this up because I am not a scout, but I think Freiermuth is ranked high mostly because the rest of the 2021 TE class isn't very good and Steelers fans in particular are totally susceptible to "aww shucks" TEs that had success at PSU.

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So what do you expect from a rookie? I mean go back and listen to the entire Steeler O & D after they shit the bed during the season. They sound like a bunch of guys who haven't learned the basic's of football. " we need to block better" "we need to run better", "I need to throw the ball better" "we need to tackle better" etc. This kid will make a difference at the TE position for the Steelers in 2021. I'm sure of it.

The bold is the part that I am asking for help in understanding. I can't find a non-highlight sizzle reel reason for why that is the belief. I can find moving pictures of struggles with blocking college players that will not be appearing in the NFL. I can find lots of people wondering if he can win on routes that aren't short area or blocking the defender out with his frame.

I keep reading that he will become good because he has a big body and tries hard but not a lot of analysis on what he actually does on a football field, right now, that really separates him into that group of drafted TEs that actually do something in the NFL. I fully acknowledge that TE is one of the toughest non-QB positions to scout and for players to adjust to at the NFL level.

[DesertSteel]

That's not really it. I just don't think at pick 55 overall that I am all that interested in a player whose being sold as IF he blocks like scouts predict because of his size he MIGHT be a pretty good player.

There's probably 10 guys in the whole draft where it's NOT about potential and projection.

[Mojouw]

There's probably 10 guys in the whole draft where it's NOT about potential and projection.

Let me try it this way. I am not arguing against the concept of potential and projection. You are right that it is the name of the game in the draft.

But if the Steelers drafted an ILB that was a good mix of size and frame, tested pretty decently, seemed to play hard, but multiple scouting reports said "isn't really a good tackler, but he should get better because he has the size to do it" would you be excited about the pick?

I would not. Just like I am not all that excited about this pick. I feel that everyone is projecting what they want a TE to be onto this guy without a lot of tangible evidence that will actually happen. Even if we take ALL drafted players as projections based on how someone sees their potential...I think that folks are predicting a ceiling for Freiermuth that simply isn't there.

[Shoes]

That's not really it. I just don't think at pick 55 overall that I am all that interested in a player whose being sold as IF he blocks like scouts predict because of his size he MIGHT be a pretty good player.

This guy went at the top of the 5th round and is basically the exact same size and I think viewed as a bit faster - https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/luke-farrell and most scouting reports I have read have his blocking above Freiermuth's now with same arguments about the ability to develop/improve.

I don't have a great deal to back this up because I am not a scout, but I think Freiermuth is ranked high mostly because the rest of the 2021 TE class isn't very good and Steelers fans in particular are totally susceptible to "aww shucks" TEs that had success at PSU.

- - - Updated - - -



The bold is the part that I am asking for help in understanding. I can't find a non-highlight sizzle reel reason for why that is the belief. I can find moving pictures of struggles with blocking college players that will not be appearing in the NFL. I can find lots of people wondering if he can win on routes that aren't short area or blocking the defender out with his frame.

I keep reading that he will become good because he has a big body and tries hard but not a lot of analysis on what he actually does on a football field, right now, that really separates him into that group of drafted TEs that actually do something in the NFL. I fully acknowledge that TE is one of the toughest non-QB positions to scout and for players to adjust to at the NFL level.

I understand it by what I've seen in his games. I don't know how else you can make a judgement unless you you have inside info and are part of an NFL scouting team.

[Mojouw]

I understand it by what I've seen in his games. I don't know how else you can make a judgement unless you you have inside info and are part of an NFL scouting team.

Ok. Fair enough. I am not claiming any special insight. I am just saying that an objective reading of this report (as an example): https://steelersdepot.com/2021/01/20...at-freiermuth/ sounds to me like MAYBE dude can block in the NFL or MAYBE he can be Jesse James.

For the sake of comparison here is another TE write up: https://steelersdepot.com/2021/02/20...-luke-farrell/. In this one we seem to be given more examples of TE blocking. These two players were drafted 2 rounds apart from one another. I realize that Farrel may be a zero in the passing game due to his almost total lack of usage at OSU. His testing #'s indicate he might have more to give there, but that is a big projecting. In contrast, Freiremuth has better receiving/running #'s but does not appear to be in the same class as a blocker. And he is being touted as a "TE that will totally help by blocking".

So help me to understand what is it about his game that makes him such a great prospect that goes at 55. What is it about his game...right now... that makes him 90 picks better than Farrell? Because, based on what information I have come across it isn't blocking.

[Shoes]

Ok. Fair enough. I am not claiming any special insight. I am just saying that an objective reading of this report (as an example): https://steelersdepot.com/2021/01/20...at-freiermuth/ sounds to me like MAYBE dude can block in the NFL or MAYBE he can be Jesse James.

For the sake of comparison here is another TE write up: https://steelersdepot.com/2021/02/20...-luke-farrell/. In this one we seem to be given more examples of TE blocking. These two players were drafted 2 rounds apart from one another. I realize that Farrel may be a zero in the passing game due to his almost total lack of usage at OSU. His testing #'s indicate he might have more to give there, but that is a big projecting. In contrast, Freiremuth has better receiving/running #'s but does not appear to be in the same class as a blocker. And he is being touted as a "TE that will totally help by blocking".

So help me to understand what is it about his game that makes him such a great prospect that goes at 55. What is it about his game...right now... that makes him 90 picks better than Farrell? Because, based on what information I have come across it isn't blocking.

Farrell had 380 yards across 34 games and 37 yards as a senior. Freiermuth tied Mike Gesicki career TD on 25 fewer games.

You seem to think he can't block at all. I suppose you will just have to wait and see come game day.

[Mojouw]

Farrell had 380 yards in over 34 games and 37 as a senior. Freiermuth tied Mike Gesicki career TD on 25 fewer games.

You seem to think he can't block at all. I suppose you will just have to wait and see come game day.

Ok. I don't think anyone questions Freiermuth's receiving numbers, especially in the red zone. But Gesicki can't block in the NFL. So he is a more productive red zone receiver than Gesicki - Great! But he is being sold as the in line blocking solution for the Steelers while Ebron spends another season handling the receiving duties.

And I can't find anyone, anywhere, comparing Freiermuth to good blocking NFL TEs. I see a great deal of Eifert and Rudolph comps. And those guys were lethal short area threats, especially in the redzone. But no one really ever counted on either of those guys adding to the run game with their blocking prowess. But that is what everyone here is talking about - how PF helps the run game with his blocking. But I have yet to see anyone dig out a scouting report, clip reel, what have you that shows PF doing that blocking.

I feel like everyone is taking this as me saying the kid sucks. I'm not. He might be awesome and I am rooting for him. But I feel like everyone is looking at an apple saying it is an orange and then offering no reasons for why they see it that way.

[Shoes]

Ok. I don't think anyone questions Freiermuth's receiving numbers, especially in the red zone. But Gesicki can't block in the NFL. So he is a more productive red zone receiver than Gesicki - Great! But he is being sold as the in line blocking solution for the Steelers while Ebron spends another season handling the receiving duties.

And I can't find anyone, anywhere, comparing Freiermuth to good blocking NFL TEs. I see a great deal of Eifert and Rudolph comps. And those guys were lethal short area threats, especially in the redzone. But no one really ever counted on either of those guys adding to the run game with their blocking prowess. But that is what everyone here is talking about - how PF helps the run game with his blocking. But I have yet to see anyone dig out a scouting report, clip reel, what have you that shows PF doing that blocking.

I feel like everyone is taking this as me saying the kid sucks. I'm not. He might be awesome and I am rooting for him. But I feel like everyone is looking at an apple saying it is an orange and then offering no reasons for why they see it that way.

I have read many reviews that say he can block and have seen him making good blocks. Does that mean he doesn't need work in that area? Of course not. These kids all need work, hell the vets need it even more. He's got a high football iq and has said clearly that if the Steelers want him to only block, he will gladly do it. Even if he isn't the best blocker in the class, he can still block, he has good bend, feet and punch and more than anything has the desire for it. I don't know what more you can ask of him.

[Born2Steel]

https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/2021...pat-freiermuth

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/fo...ootball-value/

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/01/20...at-freiermuth/

https://withthefirstpick.com/2020/12...1-nfl-draft/3/

https://primetimesportstalk.com/2021...at-freiermuth/

https://247sports.com/Article/Pat-Fr...021-164890482/

ALL of these articles are talking about Pat Freiermuth from mainly a 'blocking' viewpoint. MAYBE these will help out with the discussion.

[Mojouw]

https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/2021...pat-freiermuth

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/fo...ootball-value/

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/01/20...at-freiermuth/

https://withthefirstpick.com/2020/12...1-nfl-draft/3/

https://primetimesportstalk.com/2021...at-freiermuth/

https://247sports.com/Article/Pat-Fr...021-164890482/

ALL of these articles are talking about Pat Freiermuth from mainly a 'blocking' viewpoint. MAYBE these will help out with the discussion.

Thanks.

This https://withthefirstpick.com/2020/12...1-nfl-draft/3/ and the Steelers Depot one are the kind of reports that I keep finding that are troubling.

Again...I see what people are hoping PF can develop into. But I think that there is also a possibility that he ends up being a better version of Jesse James or a healthier Vance McDonald. And that type of player/TE has real tangible value on a roster across the NFL. I guess I just don't see this sure-fire high end TE prospect.

But, again, what do I know? I am just some guy reading stuff and watching random clips on the internet.

I have no idea who this dude is and what he does or does not know...but this isn't really a glowing review: https://youtu.be/0kU4bK04lRA

Again...I have no idea who this dude is...but another breakdown really trying to talk themselves into blocking being a good tool -- https://youtu.be/r_BnFOEKxYA

[Shoes]

Thanks.

This https://withthefirstpick.com/2020/12...1-nfl-draft/3/ and the Steelers Depot one are the kind of reports that I keep finding that are troubling.

Again...I see what people are hoping PF can develop into. But I think that there is also a possibility that he ends up being a better version of Jesse James or a healthier Vance McDonald. And that type of player/TE has real tangible value on a roster across the NFL. I guess I just don't see this sure-fire high end TE prospect.

But, again, what do I know? I am just some guy reading stuff and watching random clips on the internet.

I have no idea who this dude is and what he does or does not know...but this isn't really a glowing review: https://youtu.be/0kU4bK04lRA

Again...I have no idea who this dude is...but another breakdown really trying to talk themselves into blocking being a good tool -- https://youtu.be/r_BnFOEKxYA

How these kids come into the nfl is directly related to what they are ask to do in school. I don't know what the Steelers value the most in their TE's. Since they took Dobbs over Kittle maybe blocking isn't that important to them. Maybe it's having an ok blocker and more of this? He'll be what the Steelers want him to be.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles...pat-freiermuth

[DesertSteel]

Let me try it this way. I am not arguing against the concept of potential and projection. You are right that it is the name of the game in the draft.

But if the Steelers drafted an ILB that was a good mix of size and frame, tested pretty decently, seemed to play hard, but multiple scouting reports said "isn't really a good tackler, but he should get better because he has the size to do it" would you be excited about the pick?

I would not. Just like I am not all that excited about this pick. I feel that everyone is projecting what they want a TE to be onto this guy without a lot of tangible evidence that will actually happen. Even if we take ALL drafted players as projections based on how someone sees their potential...I think that folks are predicting a ceiling for Freiermuth that simply isn't there.

The thing I've learned about Colbert is that he's probably never read a single one of those multiple scouting reports published in the media. I mean, I never read a single thing about Green from Illinois. So far, after 20 years Colbert has mostly done well. I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt. Plus, all those scouting reports you refer to still have him as the #2 TE in the draft. Look up JJ Watt's, Aaron Donald's and Khalil Mack's scouting reports. I'm sure there's plenty of weaknesses listed.

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

The best TEs in Steelers history (SB era at least) were Heath and Eric Green. After that it falls off precipitously.

Freiermuth was a good pick in that context.

He twists his body and high points the ball like a WR. That's impressive for a man who is 6'5 260.

Going to trust the new OL coach to get the OL right. Steelers have better insight into Chuks' ceiling, Green's ability to start immediately etc.

[Mojouw]

Clearly I am the only one who doesn't like the pick. That is fine. I am likely not correct.

Bottom line, the more I read and watch on the guy the more I see Vance McDonald or a more athletic Jesse James assuming PF continues to develop. Rarely do rookie TEs impact in the NFL.

Here is what I am trying to get at...if in 2023 Pat Freiermuth is a Vance McDonald with better hands and less injuries...how does everyone feel about that pick?

[Fire Goodell]

The best TEs in Steelers history (SB era at least) were Heath and Eric Green. After that it falls off precipitously.

Freiermuth was a good pick in that context.

He twists his body and high points the ball like a WR. That's impressive for a man who is 6'5 260.

Going to trust the new OL coach to get the OL right. Steelers have better insight into Chuks' ceiling, Green's ability to start immediately etc.

One of my favorite moments as a steeler fan was watching Eric Green literally make some dude go airborne on a peelback block. It was one of the most vicious blocks I ever seen, that was 270 lbs at full speed just clocking a linebacker lol. If that happened today a suspension would have been in order lol.

I believe it was from a 1991 game vs Buffalo. We lost pretty bad but Barry Foster had some really good runs that game, one of them a long TD sprung by that Green block.

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

If Freiermuth gets 50 catches a year and 6+ TD I think it was a great pick. I don't get the comparison to McDonald. McDonald was a freak athlete with bad hands. Freiermuth at first glance seems much more dexterous and agile than McDonald with much better hands.

Really you should try to appreciate how well Friermuth turns his giant body around to locate the ball perfectly and routinely. I don't see how he won't be a red zone threat honestly.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

The thing I've learned about Colbert is that he's probably never read a single one of those multiple scouting reports published in the media. I mean, I never read a single thing about Green from Illinois. So far, after 20 years Colbert has mostly done well. I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt. Plus, all those scouting reports you refer to still have him as the #2 TE in the draft. Look up JJ Watt's, Aaron Donald's and Khalil Mack's scouting reports. I'm sure there's plenty of weaknesses listed.

Peter Schrager asked Mike Mayock on NFLN yesterday if he was expecting to hear some criticism for taking Leatherwood in the first round, when all the mock drafts done by pundits and network analysts has so many more Tackles being drafted ahead of Leatherwood and most had a 2nd round grade on Leatherwood.

Mayock said something like this;" Peter, I want to be as polite as possible, but we don't really care at all what your or anybody outside the building thinks of our draft".

Rich Eisen, DJ, Charles Davis etc were just chuckling on air the minute Schrager asked the question, because they knew what Mayock was going to say. Same to your point with Colbert.

[Mojouw]

If Freiermuth gets 50 catches a year and 6+ TD I think it was a great pick. I don't get the comparison to McDonald. McDonald was a freak athlete with bad hands. Freiermuth at first glance seems much more dexterous and agile than McDonald with much better hands.

Really you should try to appreciate how well Friermuth turns his giant body around to locate the ball perfectly and routinely. I don't see how he won't be a red zone threat honestly.

I don't think McDonald was that freaky of an athlete: https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/vance-mcdonald

He is only 0.03 faster in the 40 that Freiermuth's listed best time and seems to have run a slower shuttle. McDonald was about the same height and was actually listed 12 pounds heavier when he came out.

Freiermuth @ 4.72 40 yard time is only a 0.1 second faster than Jesse James listed best time: https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jesse-james. I remember everyone saying that if nothing else, James would be a "redzone weapon" and he wasn't: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...J/JameJe00.htm

To me, Freiermuth looks like a great #2 TE in the NFL that will occasionally put together a monster game. But I do not see a player that changes the run game significantly or alters coverage schemes in the passing game. I see a nice solid well rounded NFL TE but nothing to get really hyped up about. That is all I am saying. I just question drafting "average" with the 55th pick in the draft.

[Shoes]

I don't think McDonald was that freaky of an athlete: https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/vance-mcdonald

He is only 0.03 faster in the 40 that Freiermuth's listed best time and seems to have run a slower shuttle. McDonald was about the same height and was actually listed 12 pounds heavier when he came out.

Freiermuth @ 4.72 40 yard time is only a 0.1 second faster than Jesse James listed best time: https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jesse-james. I remember everyone saying that if nothing else, James would be a "redzone weapon" and he wasn't: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...J/JameJe00.htm

To me, Freiermuth looks like a great #2 TE in the NFL that will occasionally put together a monster game. But I do not see a player that changes the run game significantly or alters coverage schemes in the passing game. I see a nice solid well rounded NFL TE but nothing to get really hyped up about. That is all I am saying. I just question drafting "average" with the 55th pick in the draft.

Daniel Jeremiah had him ranked at 46

https://www.nfl.com/news/best-remain...2021-nfl-draft





Moats has a video on PF before the draft and this one after the draft

[DesertSteel]

Really you should try to appreciate how well Friermuth turns his giant body around to locate the ball perfectly and routinely. I don't see how he won't be a red zone threat honestly.

This is what all great tight ends possess - the ability to locate the ball and adjust their big bodies. Gronk is the master and I think PF possesses some of that.

I always love the "I could be wrong" modesty right before doubling down.

[Mojouw]

Daniel Jeremiah had him ranked at 46

https://www.nfl.com/news/best-remain...2021-nfl-draft





Moats has a video on PF before the draft and this one after the draft

Right. And both of those say exactly what I am saying. Moats says he is better than Ebron at blocking. Ok. That is faint praise. Jeremiah says "he fights to stalemate...falls off at times" in run blocking.

Maybe my standards are out of whack...but that is "average TE doing average TE things". I don't see how this is going to just unlock the Steelers running game.

I realize that by being so contrarian and ranting about it I am setting myself up to eat a lot of crow and get mocked in threads whenever the "muth" has a devastating block. And that is fine. I just keep seeing this pick being praised and saying how it will elevate the running game and present match-up problems in the passing game. And I literally do not see it. I have spent parts of last night and today watching videos around the internet and I just don't see a guy who is going to regularly rock NFL defenders as a run blocker and then run away from them in the passing game. I see a guy that will play 100 percent all out every snap and has really good body control to go get footballs in his area. That is awesome. Great to see. But I just don't think that is enough to justify the draft capital used to pick him.

[Shoes]

Right. And both of those say exactly what I am saying. Moats says he is better than Ebron at blocking. Ok. That is faint praise. Jeremiah says "he fights to stalemate...falls off at times" in run blocking.

Maybe my standards are out of whack...but that is "average TE doing average TE things". I don't see how this is going to just unlock the Steelers running game.

I realize that by being so contrarian and ranting about it I am setting myself up to eat a lot of crow and get mocked in threads whenever the "muth" has a devastating block. And that is fine. I just keep seeing this pick being praised and saying how it will elevate the running game and present match-up problems in the passing game. And I literally do not see it. I have spent parts of last night and today watching videos around the internet and I just don't see a guy who is going to regularly rock NFL defenders as a run blocker and then run away from them in the passing game. I see a guy that will play 100 percent all out every snap and has really good body control to go get footballs in his area. That is awesome. Great to see. But I just don't think that is enough to justify the draft capital used to pick him.

I'll get that crow on the grill for you!

[Mojouw]

I'll get that crow on the grill for you!

Always happy to be wrong! I like my crow a nice medium-rare with some solid grill marks.

[Shoes]

Always happy to be wrong! I like my crow a nice medium-rare with some solid grill marks.

Probably will be pretty well-done by the end of the season

[SteelerCountry58]

Well... we haven’t had a stud TE since Heath and we really needed one bad. An elite TE or two good ones are necessary in today’s NFL I believe. Just my two cents... Hopefully in Canada’s new offense we’ll be treated on exploiting match ups and being creative, cross you’re fingers.

[buzz998]

i think i like the player but i kind of agree i would rather have seen the o-line addressed first. that being said... having him in at TE will NOT tip off the defense as to run or pass because he is willing to block and he can get out in space and catch a pass. that in itself has to help the run and the pass game a bit on both sides...

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

I don't think McDonald was that freaky of an athlete: https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/vance-mcdonald

He is only 0.03 faster in the 40 that Freiermuth's listed best time and seems to have run a slower shuttle. McDonald was about the same height and was actually listed 12 pounds heavier when he came out.

Freiermuth @ 4.72 40 yard time is only a 0.1 second faster than Jesse James listed best time: https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jesse-james. I remember everyone saying that if nothing else, James would be a "redzone weapon" and he wasn't: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...J/JameJe00.htm

To me, Freiermuth looks like a great #2 TE in the NFL that will occasionally put together a monster game. But I do not see a player that changes the run game significantly or alters coverage schemes in the passing game. I see a nice solid well rounded NFL TE but nothing to get really hyped up about. That is all I am saying. I just question drafting "average" with the 55th pick in the draft.

If a player is 97th percentile in upper body strength and 72nd percentile for 40 time I think that qualifies as a freak athlete. I guess it's subjective to some degree.

The running game will be neglected as long as Tomlin is coach. Heath Miller was a great TE and great at blocking. Tomlin had 1 top ten rushing offense in 9 seasons with Miller as TE.

Freiermuth is there to be a decent blocker but mostly a red zone target.