@LloydWoodson
Would you rather have the team that rushed for 147 yards per game or the team that only rushed fir 94 yards per game?
- - - Updated - - -
You don’t say...Originally Posted by Lloydwoodsonjr
@LloydWoodson
Would you rather have the team that rushed for 147 yards per game or the team that only rushed fir 94 yards per game?
- - - Updated - - -
You don’t say...
I would rather the Steelers run for 147 yards than 94. That a trick question?
Didn't someone post that Ben wins 20% of the games where the Steelers have fewer than 100 rushing yards? So yeah hard pass on that.
Team 1 missed the playoffs.
Team 2 won the Super Bowl.
SUMMATION:
Again. It’s more than just yards.
QUESTION:
Which would you rather have:
-a 1-yard run on fourth-&-goal from the 1
-a 3-yard run on first-&-ten at the 50
(Hint: One option is more yardage, but it’s the wrong answer.)
I don't know how many times I've said it but I'll say it again- what works for Brady and Mahomes has not worked for other QBs. Even Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers have losing records when throwing 40+ times. Only Brady and Mahomes have winning records in that circumstance.
Saying "It worked for Brady" is like saying "Any NBA player could be scoring champ if they just copied MJ's fadeaway jumper." The Titans haven't tried to turn Tannehill into Mahomes. That would be pretty foolish, right?
You will have to explain your argument that teams can rush effectively but choose not to. Of the top 10 rushing teams 9 averaged more than the league average 4.4 ypc. Of the bottom 16 rushing teams 15 were below average in ypc. Who are these teams that can rush but choose not to? Seems like those who can rush do.
Why I want a rushing game is to negate the pass rush, close out leads, convert short yardage. It's not rocket science and I'm confused as to why being able to run the ball is a negative?
When Bell was dominant the Steelers ran more than they passed in certain key games!
Explain why you are arguing that the equivalent to a prime Bell would hurt the team. I don't get it. Why is it bad to be able to run the ball? And why are you inventing these non-existent teams who could rush but choose to pass?
Again, I didn’t say any of that.You brought me into the fray when you disagreed with my point (made to 86Ward) that it’s not “just” about rushing yards.
To clarify: a) it is about being efficient with those yards, and b) it depends on the game situation.
I think you should just give up and acknowledge that we are in the presence of a superior tactician. Clearly he has cracked both the code to winning in the NFL AND discussing on message boards.Again, I didn’t say any of that.
To clarify: a) it is about being efficient with those yards, and b) it depends on the game situation.
I asked you which team you were referencing and showed that teams run a lot when they are good at it but do not run when they aren't.Again, I didn’t say any of that.
To clarify: a) it is about being efficient with those yards, and b) it depends on the game situation.
I showed that only Brady and Mahomes have been successful in very pass heavy offenses.
I asked why 1 playoff win in 10 years without Bell carrying was desirable.
It's you lot who are repeating "It's the new NFL" without applying critical thinking.
Nice job trying to make fun of the Titans ultra conservative offense which has been to the AFCCG and won 3 playoff games in the same 4 years the Steelers have been shut out.
he has probably played AND coached.
Again, I said none of that...
Did the Titans win the Super Bowl? Because, from what I’ve gathered from your posts, getting to AFCCGs don’t really mean much (unless it’s other teams and/or in years that the Steelers don’t make it that far).
details, details.Again, I said none of that...
I just pointed out that the Titans have massively overachieved. They had 19 sacks this year.Again, I said none of that...
Did the Titans win the Super Bowl? Because, from what I’ve gathered from your posts, getting to AFCCGs don’t really mean much (unless it’s other teams and/or in years that the Steelers don’t make it that far).
Your defense of the Steelers playoff performance the last ten years is so weak that you have to strawman my argument as if I am advocating 70% run even on 3.0 ypc and that will equal dominance because defense, special teams and passing don't exist.
Again... 1 playoff win. 10 years. Big brains in here.
I mean are you arguing that running the football causes teams to win football games? Or are you arguing that offensive balance and flexibility is key for teams to be successful?
Those are two extremely different things. We could dive into stats that show teams that rush the ball a high amount of attempts and pass the ball a low number of attempts and lose a ton of games (Jags, Vikings, Houston, Chicago, etc.).
Further, you are all over this thread basically saying that an approach to cater to the QB was simply to pad stats, chase trends in the NFL, and whatever else. Then in two (or at least one) other thread you argue that the franchise is doomed without the same QB. Huh?
Finally, if all a team needs is a QB to "manage" the game and be the caretaker while a dominant rushing attack is the primary focus...why are the economics of the NFL the way they are? Why have 32 teams decided that the number one priority is to identify, nurture, and pay a QB? While, most NFL teams change RBs like socks. Is your argument somehow that the entire decision making apparatus from owners, to GMs, to coaches is wrong and you are right?
- - - Updated - - -
Here is the thing, if everyone keeps misinterpreting your argument; rather than just assume there is an entire message board who is out to lunch and knows nothing....you might want to consider that your argument is about as clear as mud and your responses are so all over the place that no one actually understands what it is you are trying to say.
So take a breath, count to 10 or whatever, and use your words to help people understand just what in the foggy heck you are trying to say.
you can skip making insults, that's going to get you absolutely nowhere.
I think the big irony here is that Roethlisberger just threw for 501 yards in a loss.
That was the second most passing yards in a playoff game. Mayfield had 263.
Roethlisberger also has the 4th most passing yards in a playoff game in the loss to the Jags and in 2017 (not to Garrard in 2007). Bortles had 214 yards.
Seems like putting up yards in the air doesn't necessarily equate to points or wins? Ask Stafford or Ryan.
How can Ben gain 240 or 260 more passing yards than the opponent and still lose? Hmm...
throwing 4 interceptions and having our defense suck probably had something to do with it.
Hallelujah!!!... you FINALLY got it.
It is more that "just" rushing yards. Wins and losses are about many, many factors: injuries, defensive lapses, turnovers, missed FGs, bad snaps by the center, snafus on kickoff returns, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera...
somehow, I highly doubt that.
From what I can see you guys are splitting hairs on the stat that is 100 yards rushing. If you think that throwing the ball for 3 yards is as good as a run and you like the skinny khakis that the Rams coaching staff wears, then you make the point that teams only rack up yards to close out games and that 100 yards is a myth.
If you are of the opinion that running the ball opens up play action, can convert 3rd and 2 yards or less and can keep the other team's offense off the field and you like the Titans ability to run Chris Henry and the Ravens ability to run Dobbins, Edwards, Jackson. Then you think that using the run game to get over 100 yards wears down opposing defenses and opens up the passing game.
Its really opinion and what you like, or have experienced. I will tell you that as a guy who has only coached at the highschool and youth level, its a nice thing to look at your OC play mind games with the opposing DC, because he can effectively mix up pass and run game. Its also discouraging when he is frustrated that there is no run game and the opposing DC can just work with his pass coverage play sheet.
I'm not ever of the opinion of needing to hit a benchmark to win games. I am the anti stat nerd. (I do use analytics to scout opposing team tendencies on down and distances). But I do believe you need to be able to pass and run the ball...and running the ball isnt just for closing out games IMO.
I am arguing that copying an approach that only consistently works for Mahomes or Brady will not work for other QBs.
I am arguing that the Steelers being in the bottom half of the league in rushing every year under Tomlin but his first has resulted in little success after one of the all-time great defenses ended.
I am arguing that because Roethlisberger's playoff INT% is a staggeringly high 3.8 that throwing the ball is a big risk. No one has the balls to respond to this point.
It is not contradictory to say that Roethlisberger is used improperly but that the Steelers are better off with an improperly used Roethlisberger than Mason Rudolph. C'mon man. I have no expectations of any future Super Bowl wins. I would like a winning team in the regular season that is exciting to watch. Tomlin's Steelers are very fun to watch and this is entertainment.
That said... 1 playoff win. 10 years.
Roethlisberger has playoff losses to Garrard, Mayfield, Flacco, Tebow, Bortles, Manning as a shell of his self... very nearly AJ McCarron. I thought the better QB always wins?! Explain.
I could not have been more clear- the Steelers philosophy under Tomlin of making the running game an afterthought has made the Steelers one-dimensional, predictable and inefficient.
I don't think that too many would disagree with that. For me, I push back against the whole "you need to establish the run" and if "we aren't rushing the ball X times, we are losing" line of thought.
You can pass the ball and then establish a run. You can run the ball and then use that to establish the pass. Either way, doesn't matter. It seems, based on what I watch on TV and all that, that it is simply not being one-dimensional and letting the defense back you into a corner.
Which, if I am reading your post correctly, seems to be something you would agree with - at least the bit about being one-dimensional.
Yes, I agree with that for the most part. The one caveat is that I dont think you can wait too long to try and establish the run game. If you pass a lot and then think that after 25 - 30minutes has passed that its time to establish the run, it can be really difficult to do.
Trying to establish the run can involve adapting to defensive movements/tendencies of players. If you wait too long, then it doesnt give the O linemen or RB's time to learn that and adapt for the next time the same run call is made.
Example, an inside run may involve a combination block where the C-G double the DT, then one of them chips and goes to ILB on 2nd level. The G may go the 2nd level and DT still works to B-gap to disrupt the run. The correction may be for the C to go 2nd level, G scoops to block DT into B and the RB looks cutback to A-gap instead.
I can recall a counter type play from last season where Feiler was designed to pull and it looks like he was trying to get to the DE/OLB outside shoulder to seal inside, so the run could go outside. He didnt get there in time and the play got blown up. I would look at that and say the DE is either too quick, or reacting too fast upfield and change the blocking to where Feiler should "kick out" the defender and the RB run inside.
Again, these are line blocking and run game adjustments that need to be made with the line and RB's and at times the QB. When you wait too long to pull out your run game, then you have less time to make those adjustments and less time to benefit from good adjustments made.
I never once said it was just rushing yards. That is a straw man. If you actually read what I wrote you would have seen I referenced defenses- of which Roethlisberger had the second most top 10 defenses in NFL history at 11.
All you have is excuses apparently. Roethlisberger is 0-7 in the playoffs and .330 all-time when throwing 40+ because of "injuries and snafus"? Those happen to all teams.
The more pressure on Tomlin and Ben the more they throw. They were throwing 80% of the time during the collapse this year. 68 passes in a playoff game? Just how you like it. This is fine.
NEXT YEAR WILL HAVE A DIFFERENT RESULT DOING THE SAME THINGS! Hahaha.
Interesting that the guy who uses nothing but strawman arguments is trying to say that that is what I am doing. The pot calling the banana black. Case in point: "Just like I like it." Once again, I never said that I like throwing it 40+ times.
That said, what I have indeed consistently stated is that I would have loved to seen them convert their 3rd-&-shorts/4th-&-shorts far more often... I even mentioned how in two different games, converting even on more 3rd/4th down conversion would have (likely) led to a victory.
Lastly, I am pleased to see that you are acknowledging defense (it's kind of important for a team). That is two posts in a row where you realize that there are 21 other starters on the team. Keep it up.
wasn't it Tee Tee that always used the phrase "strawman argument"?
if he posts a vid of a hippo farting I'll know it's him.
.....and you saying the same things over and over again will not help any of us understand your point......if there is one. How many more times are you going to say, “1 playoff win. 10 years”? Are you being obtuse on purpose? (I love using that word)
Last edited by Hawkman; 02-26-2021 at 03:49 PM.
Shawshank Redemption reference possibly?
You got it!Shawshank Redemption reference possibly?
Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute">
The really big irony here is that you don't even understand that everyone here wants them to run the ball more effectively. Everybody wants the team to run the ball better....period. You are now throwing around insults, you can't even understand what you read in other people's posts, you comment on things that haven't even been said or implied by other posters.......and you are questioning the brain size of people here?
I also think everyone here is in agreement that Big Ben can't just carry the team and throw the ball 50 times a game with a bad OL and zero running game. You seem to think that nobody here agrees with that for reasons only you can explain. The rest of us are looking at each other like.....WTF is this guy arguing about and bitching about because he is all over the place?
You seem to make points on both sides of your own argument from post to post. And for the record....ripping legitimately great players that walk into the HOF to try to prove your point makes you look like an ass.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote