The W/L record is what it is under the criteria of 100 years rushing.Originally Posted by Mojouw
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The W/L record is what it is under the criteria of 100 years rushing.
And it is a correlation not a causation. Rushing for 100 yards does not necessarily cause team to win. But teams that win tend to rush for 100 yards+.
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Rushing for 100 yards in a game is a benchmark number for a reason. No, it does not mean teams win when they rush for 100 yards but it does mean the LOS is being controlled. At least controlled enough to have a 100 yard rusher. And controlling the LOS wins games.
Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute">
We need more correlation.
For sure. I am the last guy to hold anything to a magic number with regards to football. When I am coaching kids during a game, I may set a short goal of points per quarter on offense or points given up per quarter, so they look at short term goals not the end result. But at the end of the game, we generally know a benchmark of how many offensive plays that we have, will determine if we are moving the football well, or punting way too much. If we are running too much and getting stuffed, or passing too much and not completing passes, I will likely give the OC input that we need to mix things up.
So yes, Ben needs a running game to help with his deteriorating QB skills and his eventual successor will need a good running game to help support their development, but the passing game likely needs to be at least 60% of the offensive play calls.
don't worry, Ben will audible out of called running plays if they aren't.
That sounds totally reasonable and logical to me.
I think it was 2018, the Steelers didn't run the ball much. But they did convert a high % of 3rd downs (one way or the other), turned a high % of drives into TDs, and were really good in the red zone. Maybe it was 2017 -- to lazy to look it up.
For me, that is what I tend to look at for an NFL team. In 2020, the Steelers didn't do those things very (or at least not as) well and it bit them in the butt in the last quarter of the season.
You don't need a top 5 rushing game, but you can't be 32nd either. More on Cowher? He hasn't coaches in years. This year, Tomlin has no scapegoat but himself, and with free agency and our schedule I expect him to fall flat...even with Ben back.
The last time the Steelers won a playoff game it was 2016. That is six years ago. We are keeping the Jets and Lions company. The standard remains the standard.
The bottom line is you have to be winning ball games and be able to rush when needed. It doesn’t matter if the run/pass ratio is 2%/98% as long as you are effective in that 2%. If you are winning ball games, it doesn’t matter. When you can’t convert on 2nd & 3, 3rd & 2, 4th & 1...that’s what matters.
Just has to be effective.
Spot on
In 2018, we were 31st in “yards”... but, also first in red-zone efficiency. It’s kind of like the Bettis stat-line from two decades ago: 5 rushes, 1 yard, 3 TDs.
In other words, I’d rather convert every single “3rd-&-less than two yards” than have a few long runs that pad the overall stats.
Bettis vs Famous Amos ....
or
Bettis vs Fast Willie .....
scenario 1 is clear ...
scenario 2 not as clear but a solid argument can be made ...
thus in Teegre terms ...
summation : you must be able to run the football effectively on your terms
Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now
But teams with good running games they are confident in their rushing will run on 3rd and short while the Steelers won't.
Seems like everyone drank the Kool-Aid. The most successful season the Steelers have had was in 2016-17 which ended with the Steelers being down 27 with 4 minutes to play. Other than that 8 of the last 10 seasons produced 0 playoff wins and the only other season which did was the AJ McCarron Bengals meltdown that blew a certain victory.
Knowing what we know now and hindsight being 20/20 it seems everyone would do it again.
Nothing will change going forward so expect the next 10 years to be less successful than the last 10. It is doubtful Ben's successor will be better at running this Manning Coltsesque offense than he was.
I expect the Steelers to become the Bengals while everyone celebrates their own intellect for having the aptitude to understand the "new NFL" and analytics.
This whole comment section is bewildering to me.
The Bus, and the OL/TE and even WR's of that era were exceptional. They could, and did run against an 8 man front. It got a lot of success and allowed the team to grind out an amazing % of wins if the team could start the second half up by 3 point. Famous stat in Cowher's favor. That team also struggled in the playoofs despite the #1 Run game AND the #1 Defense in one year. Add in Ben and a respectable passing attack and sudden the defenses can't just stack the box. This combo led to a superbowl very shortly.
Currently we have a vastly improved passing attack compared to those teams, but we have gone from being able to run for 3+ years on a very high number of plays even if the opposition keys up on the run, to a team that can't really run well under any circumstance. 7 man front, goal line, nothing. So the short passing attack is substituted and it carries the team....until it doesn't. 100 yard running games are good as a kind of marker, but it really is down to being able to pass AND run the ball effectively, and mix up the play calling so that the defenses are stretched, stressed, and confused as much as possible. Right now they know what's coming, can start with their best personnel, know what to look for and what to do, and even though we were actually pretty good at it (short passing game), we just didn't have the threat down the field, or in the run game to compliment it. That was the main reason our offense bogged down.
In the playoffs our defense also hit just the tipping point for injuries so they weren't as effective as they had been, plus the "Pouncy 7" we spotted them, and it was just too much to overcome. To get to the big game, we are going to have to remain effective at passing, but also be able to mix in a threat of reliable running in the situations where we need it -- like to rest our defense and gas theirs, get reliable (and safe) short yard situations dealt with, and to finish out games by running out the clock with long drives, taking away multiple chances for the other team to make a comeback.
Interesting... I’m not sure I said any of that.
Let me ask you this. Would you rather have...
Two drives. 120 rushing yards. 2 FGs.
Two drives. 30 rushing yards, but you convert several third-&-shorts plus you punch it into the end-zone for 2 TDs.
SUMMATION:
It’s more than just “yards”...
C'mon. You've heard this argument before. Every season the Steelers don't host a SB parade, the majority of the off-season is a low-level complaint-fest about how if they only ran the ball more they would've won it all. Then for good measure you link that back to either Cowher, the 1970's (when men were men and football was football), or, for bonus points, both.Interesting... I’m not sure I said any of that.
Let me ask you this. Would you rather have...
Two drives. 120 rushing yards. 2 FGs.
Two drives. 30 rushing yards, but you convert several third-&-shorts plus you punch it into the end-zone for 2 TDs.
SUMMATION:
It’s more than just “yards”...
Like I posted earlier...Cowher's one non-Ben SB appearance, he had his offense pass the ball 3rd most in league, about a dozen passes off the league leading pace and that is with his starting QB missing games. Then in his Ben SB win, they had a strong running game and it was integral to winning the SB...but everyone seems to gloss over the pass first approach they rode in the play-offs to the SB.
The names of the posters change each year, but the "argument" is the same. And has been for as long as there has been a Steelers internet.
click on the link below to listen to the podcast:
NFL Insider John Clayton On Ben Coming Back
February 24, 2021
John has been saying that he doesn't think Ben will take a paycut, rather he'll restructure and give the team some money to work with. John believes Ben wants to play through the 2022 season and then see where he is after that. John admits that the Steelers won't be as talented next year, but you can say that about most teams in the league as they have to adjust to a much lower cap than expected. Asked where this leaves Mason Rudolph, John thinks he'll be gone unless he just wants to sign again with the Steelers as a backup.
https://www.radio.com/podcasts/the-p...back-357829817
That’s okay, because all of your comments are bewildering to me.
Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute">
Does Mason think he’s gonna sign somewhere as the starter??
perhaps in the CFL.
1 playoff win in 10 years with the strategy you are advocating.
1 win.
10 years.
why so negative all the time?
Last edited by hawaiiansteeler; 02-25-2021 at 11:58 PM.
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I think you mean run OR CATCH for 167 yards. No? Otherwise, you're going to have to prove to me that those stats are legitimate. Links, please. And, I'm going to laugh if it's like one game we won with Bell and one without.
"Ben is like so a-maze-balls! Tomlin is like a genius like I swear to God."
Is that how to fan? Be a teenage girl as to a boy band?
Miami 2016 - Ben threw 18 times; Bell and Williams rushed 31 times
Bell finished with 29 carries 167 yards - I am not advocating for this much running. I'm making a point.
KC 2016 - Ben threw 31 times; Bell rushed 30 times for 170 yards.
CIN 2015 - Ben/Landry threw 36 times; Todman, Toussaint, Bryant ran 29 times
The closest thing to an aerial attack resulting in a win was CIN 2015.
1 playoff win.
10 years.
You can't say that playoff wins in which Bell ran as much or more than Ben threw and for massive yards was the result of the passing game.
Did the offensive strategy of the last ten years pad Ben's stats? Yes. He may be a first ballot HOF.
Did this strategy result in playoff success? It did not.
Expect this to get much worse when Ben leaves.
Interesting thing about 2015 - I distinctly recall that season ending in the divisional round thanks to a 4th string RB coughing up the football about halfway through the 4th quarter with the Steelers leading and driving towards what would have likely been a game-icing score, only to have the "LeBeau Lite" defense subsequently and quite predictably allow a by-then-very-seriously-in-decline Peyton Manning to walk the Broncos right back down the field for the go ahead TD and quite effectively kill the clock while doing it.
But if folks wanna blame that loss on being pass-happy or being "Manning Coltesque," or whatever, then that's their prerogative.
I also think the defense's role in the postseason disappointments of the last decade or so have been very much glossed over by many as well. They have been coming up small in big games on a regular basis ever since the 4th quarter of SB XLIII. Hell, they even made Tebow look almost like an actual NFL QB once upon a time. But of course Arians got the blame and the sack for that game while LeBeau got 3 more years and the defense continued to get progressively worse.
Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute">
Absolutely correct.
Wait, wait, wait... are you’all telling me that there is not a “magic pill” that a team can take in order to win a Super Bowl??? Are you telling me that things such as injuries (to an ILB and also his backup) and turnovers might also be a factor??? Next you will be telling me that with 11 players on offense, each & every one could possibly play a role in victory and/or defeat. Pfft... whatever.
It is this simple, people: as long as you run the ball on every play, you will absolutely win every single game. I mean, just look at the Titans. They have won the last dozen (or more?) Lombardis. Game. Set. Match.
- I bring up that Roethlisberger's playoff INT % is worse than Jameis Winston's career INT % and it's crickets. You just pretend that isn't true. Then you strawman that I said pulling a RB off the practice squad is the best way to incorporate a running game. Pretty hard on the RB aren't you? Kind of inconsistent no? Ben throwing INTs good; practice squad RB fumbling bad. I will concede that running the ball after your 1st and 2nd string RB are injured is much less productive.
- And all this time I thought that the decline of the defense was that Farrior, Hampton, A Smith, Woodley, Harrison, Foote, Taylor, and Clark were all gone by 2014. Now I know it was all scheme or something and Lebeau's fault. /s
Kind of like how Pete Carroll hasn't changed but the Seahawks suck without ETIII, Chancellor, Sherman, Bennett and Mebane.
Why is that In one thread you are singing Ben’s praise, and in another you’re slamming him?
Last year the Titans beat NE in the playoffs in a game where Tannehill threw for 72 yards and Henry ran for 182...
I get that you're all having a little circle jerk over the Steelers' 1 playoff win in the last 10 years not riding the back of Bell- got to show off for the boys that you get analytics and the "new NFL"; but the Titans were a bad example. The Titans massively overachieved last year and made the AFC Championship game.
The Titans literally ran the ball more than they passed over the last two years and made the AFCCG and then went 11-5 the following year, losing in the WC.
That strategy won't work for everyone because there's only one Derrick Henry just like there are only probably three quarterbacks who should be throwing 2:1 as much as they run.
The Titans have wins over the Patriots, Ravens and Chiefs in the last 4 years, and as many playoff wins in that time as the Steelers have in 10. I don't see the Titans roster as being overly talented. The Titans had just 19 sacks this year in a pass happy NFL... ending 11-5 is pretty amazing.
No one has advocated becoming the Titans on offense; but now that you mention it winning playoff games ugly is better than not winning them at all. Maybe you're onto something?
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