My QB thoughts......

[Lamberts_Lunatic]

I don't post here that much, but today I'd thought I'd put down my thoughts about the season. Maybe I'm looking for a cathartic moment......

I guess my thoughts are really centering on the QB position. I'm old and have lots of grey in my beard and remember the days of Kent Graham and Cliff Stoudt. Not fun. My boyhood hero was Bradshaw (even gave my second son the middle name "Bradshaw"). So.....When Ben finally came along it felt like a release from some kind of purgatory. Finally released from 26 years of the Curse of the Bad QB's (I blame it all on that fuggin Mynah Byrd). I'm a Manly Man, but i gotta admit, I shed a tear of happiness/relief in 2005 when I watched him raise the Lombardi.

I've been really fortunate to have been able to watch the entire careers of two Hall of Fame QB's playing for my team. It really has been a blast for both. At this point I really don't know how I feel about Ben coming back. He looked done after the Cleveland game. Looked like all the spirit he had had been beaten out of him. But then I really thought about the game he'd had, both good and bad, and realized he was out there playing with a team skill level that was really, really lacking from the the two SB teams. And he never quit. He still gave it his all. Just like Bradshaw in 83 against the Jets.

But then I look at the salary cap implications of what happens when he comes back. I hate to say it, but it'll be hell for quite a few years. I think if he goes the team has an opportunity to start moving forward immediately and/or position it self much better for upcoming seasons.

So....let a legend have a farewell victory tour or cut bait like they did with other big names who were past their prime?

Love ya Big Ben and thank you for the memories, but it's time to go.

LambertsLunatic

[ThorndikeFFA]

We're going to find out where Ben's loyalties and priorities lie very soon. Does he stick around and play with a mediocre team while sucking out every dime of that $41 million? Or does he announce a final year or two and do a team building restructure and play for $12-$15 million? I think if he insists on the first option the team will cut him, pay him his guaranteed money and move on. On the other hand, a cheaper Ben with some new OL and an actual running back/game could be really interesting. *shrug*

[Born2Steel]

We're going to find out where Ben's loyalties and priorities lie very soon. Does he stick around and play with a mediocre team while sucking out every dime of that $41 million? Or does he announce a final year or two and do a team building restructure and play for $12-$15 million? I think if he insists on the first option the team will cut him, pay him his guaranteed money and move on. On the other hand, a cheaper Ben with some new OL and an actual running back/game could be really interesting. *shrug*

Ben's loyalties? Ben's priorities? He's under contract for X and you suggest he play for 1/3X instead, or that means he has no loyalty to the Steelers? If they fire him he gets roughly half. I think sometimes fans forget this is a job for the players. It's just a hobby for the rest of us, but this is the future of his family. He's not going to play for a third of his contract just because.

[Mojouw]

Ben can choose to make the salary cap implications of retirement and playing in 2021 basically the same. FWIW, Ben can not restructure to give the Steelers as much cap relief. Contract has been restructured a bunch already.

From this article (really good breakdown of the various maths): https://steelersdepot.com/2020/08/lo...ing-scenarios/

Faux Extension: "Below is an example of what a faux extension with voidable years would look like in paper when it comes to 2021 numbers and the prorated bonus amounts in the subsequent years. Roethlisberger would still get the $19 million he was already due in 2021 and the Steelers would get $14.34 million in 2021 cap relief at the expense of having $14.34 million in 2022 dead money."

Retirement: "If Roethlisberger were to retire before his roster bonus is due, the Steelers would save $19 million in 2021 salary cap space and be on the hook for $22.25 million in dead money next season."

Financially, the "best" thing that Ben could do for the Steelers would be to play in 2021 and sign an extension without any new money in it with a bunch of voidable years at the end. Similar to this contract by Brees (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orle...ew-brees-4542/).

That pushes Ben's cap charges around in a more team friendly way in both the 2021 present and the post-2021 future. But that would mean Ben signs a deal with not a single extra penny in it....

[pczach]

Ben's loyalties? Ben's priorities? He's under contract for X and you suggest he play for 1/3X instead, or that means he has no loyalty to the Steelers? If they fire him he gets roughly half. I think sometimes fans forget this is a job for the players. It's just a hobby for the rest of us, but this is the future of his family. He's not going to play for a third of his contract just because.

Does anyone think Tom Brady would have played for $12 million a year if his wife didn't make $100 mil per?

So...I guess technically.....it's Ben's wife's fault!

[Born2Steel]

Does anyone think Tom Brady would have played for $12 million a year if his wife didn't make $100 mil per?

So...I guess technically.....it's Ben's wife's fault!

Now ask Tom if he would play for 4.

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Ben can choose to make the salary cap implications of retirement and playing in 2021 basically the same. FWIW, Ben can not restructure to give the Steelers as much cap relief. Contract has been restructured a bunch already.

From this article (really good breakdown of the various maths): https://steelersdepot.com/2020/08/lo...ing-scenarios/

Faux Extension: "Below is an example of what a faux extension with voidable years would look like in paper when it comes to 2021 numbers and the prorated bonus amounts in the subsequent years. Roethlisberger would still get the $19 million he was already due in 2021 and the Steelers would get $14.34 million in 2021 cap relief at the expense of having $14.34 million in 2022 dead money."

Retirement: "If Roethlisberger were to retire before his roster bonus is due, the Steelers would save $19 million in 2021 salary cap space and be on the hook for $22.25 million in dead money next season."

Financially, the "best" thing that Ben could do for the Steelers would be to play in 2021 and sign an extension without any new money in it with a bunch of voidable years at the end. Similar to this contract by Brees (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orle...ew-brees-4542/).

That pushes Ben's cap charges around in a more team friendly way in both the 2021 present and the post-2021 future. But that would mean Ben signs a deal with not a single extra penny in it....

If Ben decides he's coming back for 1 more season to finish out his contract and has no desire to sign any extension, that does not diminish his loyalty to the Steelers. That was my point. CAN it be done? Of course.

[Mojouw]

Now ask Tom if he would play for 4.

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If Ben decides he's coming back for 1 more season to finish out his contract and has no desire to sign any extension, that does not diminish his loyalty to the Steelers. That was my point. CAN it be done? Of course.

Sure. But I will call out any athlete on any team, including Ben, for their tired old cliched bullshit. They always talk about "doing it for the guys" or "making sacrifices for the team" or "keeping everyone together" and on and on. Then when it comes time to put their money where their mouth is...hardly anyone does anything besides take the biggest paycheck they can. I totally get it. I would do the same darn thing. Destroy my body and have no life for most of my adult years aside from my profession can really only be balanced by giant stacks of cash. But all these guys getting to say one thing and do the opposite is tiring.

[86WARD]

Ben can choose to make the salary cap implications of retirement and playing in 2021 basically the same. FWIW, Ben can not restructure to give the Steelers as much cap relief. Contract has been restructured a bunch already.

From this article (really good breakdown of the various maths): https://steelersdepot.com/2020/08/lo...ing-scenarios/

Faux Extension: "Below is an example of what a faux extension with voidable years would look like in paper when it comes to 2021 numbers and the prorated bonus amounts in the subsequent years. Roethlisberger would still get the $19 million he was already due in 2021 and the Steelers would get $14.34 million in 2021 cap relief at the expense of having $14.34 million in 2022 dead money."

Retirement: "If Roethlisberger were to retire before his roster bonus is due, the Steelers would save $19 million in 2021 salary cap space and be on the hook for $22.25 million in dead money next season."

Financially, the "best" thing that Ben could do for the Steelers would be to play in 2021 and sign an extension without any new money in it with a bunch of voidable years at the end. Similar to this contract by Brees (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orle...ew-brees-4542/).

That pushes Ben's cap charges around in a more team friendly way in both the 2021 present and the post-2021 future. But that would mean Ben signs a deal with not a single extra penny in it....

So if they save the $14M this season on Ben. How much are they saving on Pouncey and the other guys that have left or not been signed?

[Mojouw]

So if they save the $14M this season on Ben. How much are they saving on Pouncey and the other guys that have left or not been signed?

Not sure what your question is. If a guy isn't signed because his contract expires, they are saving nothing because that was never on the 2021 cap. If you want to know how much they can save by cutting or restructuring guys, use this site to get a quick idea: https://overthecap.com/calculator/pittsburgh-steelers/

Playing around with it, I come up with following "roguh" outcome. They can enter the 2021 League year with about $15-17 million in cap space if they do the Ben fake extension thing, cut Pouncey, max restructure Tuitt and Heyward, and cut McDonald.
Then you can get several million more by extending TJ Watt. Do something with Haden's contract and you can likely wring a few more million.

I can readily see them having $15-20 million in cap space by sometime in March. They still aren't signing a lot of guys. $8 million or so of that will be the rookie class. They usually want to have an in-season contingency of around $3 million. So they don't have a great deal to play around with, but somewhere between $6-10 million in cap space isn't exactly peanuts either.

[86WARD]

Didn’t Pouncey have one more year of salary left?

[Mojouw]

Didn’t Pouncey have one more year of salary left?

Yes. See my reply above and the linked site provided for every detail you could want. FWIW, Pouncey and anyone else has not left.

[DesertSteel]

I’d just like a QB who can execute a sneak and run a play action. I’ve never witnessed another professional athlete lose the amount of athleticism that Ben has from his 20’s to his mid 30’s. He simply does not fit today’s NFL.

[ThorndikeFFA]

Yeah, I do suggest he play for 1/2 to 1/3 of his projected $41+ salary. If he thinks he has something to prove then he'll need an improved team around him to help him prove it. Put your money where you mouth is, Ben.

And again, yes, I do see it as a loyalty issue. He has a chance here to go out a winner with a little less cash, or a loser with a ton of cash. Time will tell.

[86WARD]

Yes. See my reply above and the linked site provided for every detail you could want. FWIW, Pouncey and anyone else has not left.

Not officially...lol

[DesertSteel]

Ben's loyalties? Ben's priorities? He's under contract for X and you suggest he play for 1/3X instead, or that means he has no loyalty to the Steelers? If they fire him he gets roughly half. I think sometimes fans forget this is a job for the players. It's just a hobby for the rest of us, but this is the future of his family. He's not going to play for a third of his contract just because.

Yet the one interesting facet is that the fans are paying for the salaries. That clearly means nothing but it’s still interesting.

[EzraTank]

Ben's loyalties? Ben's priorities? He's under contract for X and you suggest he play for 1/3X instead, or that means he has no loyalty to the Steelers? If they fire him he gets roughly half. I think sometimes fans forget this is a job for the players. It's just a hobby for the rest of us, but this is the future of his family. He's not going to play for a third of his contract just because.

Yes but there are a lot of players in all the major sports that restructure their contracts because they want to win. Ben, if not a complete moron with money (that's open to debate) should be more than set for multiple life times. If he really wants to win and go out on top, which is very hard to do, then he would consider it to make the team better.

[Six Rings]

I don't post here that much, but today I'd thought I'd put down my thoughts about the season. Maybe I'm looking for a cathartic moment......

I guess my thoughts are really centering on the QB position. I'm old and have lots of grey in my beard and remember the days of Kent Graham and Cliff Stoudt. Not fun. My boyhood hero was Bradshaw (even gave my second son the middle name "Bradshaw"). So.....When Ben finally came along it felt like a release from some kind of purgatory. Finally released from 26 years of the Curse of the Bad QB's (I blame it all on that fuggin Mynah Byrd). I'm a Manly Man, but i gotta admit, I shed a tear of happiness/relief in 2005 when I watched him raise the Lombardi.

I've been really fortunate to have been able to watch the entire careers of two Hall of Fame QB's playing for my team. It really has been a blast for both. At this point I really don't know how I feel about Ben coming back. He looked done after the Cleveland game. Looked like all the spirit he had had been beaten out of him. But then I really thought about the game he'd had, both good and bad, and realized he was out there playing with a team skill level that was really, really lacking from the the two SB teams. And he never quit. He still gave it his all. Just like Bradshaw in 83 against the Jets.

But then I look at the salary cap implications of what happens when he comes back. I hate to say it, but it'll be hell for quite a few years. I think if he goes the team has an opportunity to start moving forward immediately and/or position it self much better for upcoming seasons.

So....let a legend have a farewell victory tour or cut bait like they did with other big names who were past their prime?

Love ya Big Ben and thank you for the memories, but it's time to go.

LambertsLunatic

Post more often.

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I’d just like a QB who can execute a sneak and run a play action. I’ve never witnessed another professional athlete lose the amount of athleticism that Ben has from his 20’s to his mid 30’s. He simply does not fit today’s NFL.

Does Tom Brady fit?

The QB sneak and play action are not called enough. That's on Tomlin and the OC. With that taken away, we are easier to prepare for. Ben is a good QB sneak player. I think he converted 15 or his last 16 or something like that.

[DesertSteel]

The QB sneak and play action are not called enough. That's on Tomlin and the OC. With that taken away, we are easier to prepare for. Ben is a good QB sneak player. I think he converted 15 or his last 16 or something like that.

They're not called because of Ben's dislike for them. Almost every QB is good at the sneak. It's an easy play. We'd rather try to run Conner to the edge and lose a yard though. Because Ben doesn't want to run it.

[Dissolv]

Good discussion.

I think being the Steelers, Ben is going to play out the contract, and the problem is just built into the Steeler's way. We are loyal to our franchise QB, offered the contract, and now we play it out, better or worse. On the whole I prefer that, even knowing that Ben will have a heavier salary cap hit next year than he will likely be able to carry, in terms of game performance.

But he still is likely a good enough option to make a run, if the rest of the team can clean itself up. That seems unlikely, is the problem. Removing Ben still leaves a hefty cap hit, and we arent' going to be able to automatically just snap-in another handy franchise QB that is laying around. :-(

What I am expecting is Ben to play out his contract, as will Pouncy, as will Tomlin. So basically wait two years and see what you wind up with, based on moves you made two years ago. It isn't fast. It isn't agile, but it is loyal, and players appreciate that they actually get to play out their contracts, unlike so many other teams. What we *should* do, I am not certain. But that is what I expect the Steelers to actually do.

[Born2Steel]

Good discussion.

I think being the Steelers, Ben is going to play out the contract, and the problem is just built into the Steeler's way. We are loyal to our franchise QB, offered the contract, and now we play it out, better or worse. On the whole I prefer that, even knowing that Ben will have a heavier salary cap hit next year than he will likely be able to carry, in terms of game performance.

But he still is likely a good enough option to make a run, if the rest of the team can clean itself up. That seems unlikely, is the problem. Removing Ben still leaves a hefty cap hit, and we arent' going to be able to automatically just snap-in another handy franchise QB that is laying around. :-(

What I am expecting is Ben to play out his contract, as will Pouncy, as will Tomlin. So basically wait two years and see what you wind up with, based on moves you made two years ago. It isn't fast. It isn't agile, but it is loyal, and players appreciate that they actually get to play out their contracts, unlike so many other teams. What we *should* do, I am not certain. But that is what I expect the Steelers to actually do.

Same.

[Born2Steel]

Yet the one interesting facet is that the fans are paying for the salaries. That clearly means nothing but it’s still interesting.

We spend a lot of money on hobbies. Whether tailgating and going to games, hunting and fishing, exercising equipment, etc...I guess hobbyists support/create the hobby. But according to this, fans aren't actually paying much toward player salaries after all.

https://www.investopedia.com/article...akes-money.asp

[Fire Goodell]

Does anyone think Tom Brady would have played for $12 million a year if his wife didn't make $100 mil per?

So...I guess technically.....it's Ben's wife's fault!

I know there will never be a rule against that, but that's basically cheating. He played for many years well below his market value which essentially gave the Patriots****** 30 million extra of cap room that other teams didn't have. Hope the next steelers QB marries a billionaire

[Six Rings]

Not officially...lol

Match 17th is when free agency starts. Ju-Ju and Dupree will be gone by April, Pouncey retired.