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Thread: Fichtner and more let go ....

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Absolutely. I do think motion and play-action are a fundamental part of pre-snap and post-snap reads. Some QBs are just better at pre-snap reads with/without motion than others so there will be a difference in effectiveness from team to team. Same in post-snap reads with watching LBs/Safeties at the snap. Play-action is not completely dependent on the QB alone though. The defenses are making reads too and play-action takes more than just fake a handoff. The Steelers were just not good at it in recent years. I don't know exactly why, I'm sure there are multiple reasons. Mostly I think it was due to the Fichtner 'throw short/run long' offensive system and play calls. With a more run committed offensive approach maybe play-action can be a successful and viable part of the Steelers offense again.

    Agreed I would love to have this option but from how I understand the scheme, which is very little, a successful RPO offense requires a QB that is a threat to run or throw. Even when using a 'bell cow' RB, an RPO suggests the possibility of hand-off, QB run, or play-action pass from the same formations, as you alluded to. I don't see this being run successfully by Ben or Rudolph. Maybe the next guy? I think Tannehill has been a very good RPO QB for the Titans.
    Yeah. the specifics of how to implement that stuff and what players you do or don't need is not my bag either.

    What I wonder is what a new OC will have to say about Ben and Conner? Does he come and tell Tomlin, Colbert, etc. that his breakdown of the film shows a QB that can still get it done or one that is washed? What about Conner? Does a new OC see a dual-threat RB (lets leave health aside for a moment) or does he see a flawed below the line back?

    I guess what I am trying to say is do they look for an OC that says "I can get more out of the roster you have (and yes I know that Conner is a UFA)" or do they go with a guy that is more "This is what I run and you need to get me these guys so I can run it."

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    Senior Member Array title="BlackAndGold has a reputation beyond repute"> BlackAndGold's Avatar

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Per Dulac, Teryl Austin is interviewing with the Titans to be their DC.
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    Per Dulac, Teryl Austin is interviewing with the Titans to be their DC.
    So the Steelers will let Austin go and keep Butler?

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    What they don't want to interview Butler?
    Age, I'm assuming.

    Austin has made a big impact since coming to the Steelers. He would be a loss.
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    So the Steelers will let Austin go and keep Butler?
    Austin wasn’t that good as a DC if Imremember correctly?

    Still not seeing the words DANNY or SMITH anywhere in this thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    Though I'm not an o-line/scheme expert, I liked how Sarrett developed Dotson, Chuk and Feiler, though Feiler was here under Munchak but Sarrett was just involved as an assistant coach.

    I'd have to go back and research some charting but it seems like they played under center a lot more with Bell, which puts the o-line in a better position to open up running holes. Some of that blame goes toward Ben since he doesn't enjoy being under center.

    Overall, I'm not going to dismiss the age and decline of the players that that were apart of that group.. AV/Foster/Pouncey/DD/Gilbert were all Pro Bowl caliber players in their prime, two of which were multiple time All-Pros. Conner is a solid back but he isn't Bell, we all watched that man create negative plays into big positives, Conner can't do that. Bell running the ball was like art.
    I dont think Sarrett was that good of an O line coach, at least not what is needed at the NFL, but I also dont think that Fichtner's offense did him any favors.

    Dotson started 4 years at Louisiana and was an All American last year in college. I dont think a lot of development was on Sarrett, as much as the young man has a lot of skills, strength, athleticism, experience and long arms for pass protection.

    Think back to LeVeon Bell and how every commentator mentioned he was so "patient" to wait for his blocking to setup. Then think of what we saw the past couple years with Sarrett. It looked like the O line was not staying on their blocks that long, in order for any RB to be "patient", as much as they were trying to get to a shoulder and establish a seam. I think there was a difference in philosophy in how to block between Sarrett...OR it was a difference of how Fichtner wanted things blocked up or run.

    Lots of dynamics between O line coach and OC, when it comes to offensive system. Maybe Fichtner wanted things a different way, but wasn't going to override the HOF in Munchak, but when Sarrett was there he changed the blocking scheme? Maybe Sarrett changed the scheme once he became the guy? I dont know, but all I know is that I am glad they are both gone, because the rhythm of the playcalling sucked and the run game blocking scheme and finish sucked.

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I dont think Sarrett was that good of an O line coach, at least not what is needed at the NFL, but I also dont think that Fichtner's offense did him any favors.

    Dotson started 4 years at Louisiana and was an All American last year in college. I dont think a lot of development was on Sarrett, as much as the young man has a lot of skills, strength, athleticism, experience and long arms for pass protection.

    Think back to LeVeon Bell and how every commentator mentioned he was so "patient" to wait for his blocking to setup. Then think of what we saw the past couple years with Sarrett. It looked like the O line was not staying on their blocks that long, in order for any RB to be "patient", as much as they were trying to get to a shoulder and establish a seam. I think there was a difference in philosophy in how to block between Sarrett...OR it was a difference of how Fichtner wanted things blocked up or run.

    Lots of dynamics between O line coach and OC, when it comes to offensive system. Maybe Fichtner wanted things a different way, but wasn't going to override the HOF in Munchak, but when Sarrett was there he changed the blocking scheme? Maybe Sarrett changed the scheme once he became the guy? I dont know, but all I know is that I am glad they are both gone, because the rhythm of the playcalling sucked and the run game blocking scheme and finish sucked.
    I will co sponsor the above ..this line regressed each year it was removed from Munchak in both pass blocking and run blocking , they never constantly won the leverage battle in the run game technique continued to wain ...
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    some guy named cassius darsh was playing half the game vs cleveland
    Marsh was filling in for Dupree / Highsmith. Watt played the whole game as far as I am aware.

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Austin wasn’t that good as a DC if Imremember correctly?

    Still not seeing the words DANNY or SMITH anywhere in this thread...

    He's done a great job keeping every steeler player 10 yards from the opposing teams punter this season.

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Austin wasn’t that good as a DC if Imremember correctly?

    Still not seeing the words DANNY or SMITH anywhere in this thread...
    I think he had a good year in Detroit where the defense lead the league in INT, then a lackluster year. Still, the guy was on the Seahawks staff around the time of SBXL I think and that was a good secondary. Likewise in Arizona 3 years later when Tomlin and the Steelers beat the Cards in SBXLIII.

    Austin is a good football coach, with a mindset for takeaways. Be a shame to lose him, but such is the NFL.

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    HIRE ARIANS!

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    So the Steelers will let Austin go and keep Butler?
    The way that I read it, the Titans are interested in Austin (Austin is not being released by the Steelers).

    Conversely, no one is interested in Butler.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I will add this:

    During Munchak's last season with the Steelers, the rushing offense ranked 31st.

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I dont think Sarrett was that good of an O line coach, at least not what is needed at the NFL, but I also dont think that Fichtner's offense did him any favors.

    Dotson started 4 years at Louisiana and was an All American last year in college. I dont think a lot of development was on Sarrett, as much as the young man has a lot of skills, strength, athleticism, experience and long arms for pass protection.

    Think back to LeVeon Bell and how every commentator mentioned he was so "patient" to wait for his blocking to setup. Then think of what we saw the past couple years with Sarrett. It looked like the O line was not staying on their blocks that long, in order for any RB to be "patient", as much as they were trying to get to a shoulder and establish a seam. I think there was a difference in philosophy in how to block between Sarrett...OR it was a difference of how Fichtner wanted things blocked up or run.

    Lots of dynamics between O line coach and OC, when it comes to offensive system. Maybe Fichtner wanted things a different way, but wasn't going to override the HOF in Munchak, but when Sarrett was there he changed the blocking scheme? Maybe Sarrett changed the scheme once he became the guy? I dont know, but all I know is that I am glad they are both gone, because the rhythm of the playcalling sucked and the run game blocking scheme and finish sucked.


    This is pretty much what I think about it.

    Sarrett may have had his hands tied with the offense and schemes Fichtner forced him to work with. He could only do so much based on the dynamics you talk about. If you play football long enough, you will always see pretty good coaches that are caught up in bad situations for one reason or another.

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by W&M_Steeler View Post
    Awesome news! Is Butler next out the door? If your defense loaded with All-Pros can't stop an offense with a 2nd string line when it counts, if your defense has multiple playoff collapses, then maybe your defensive coordinator is not very good...
    Can't do it with 1's hurt and playing multiple backups. Must have high quality depth which we do not have. Not Coach's fault players got hurt.
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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by katmandu View Post
    Can't do it with 1's hurt and playing multiple backups. Must have high quality depth which we do not have. Not Coach's fault players got hurt.
    I'm not buying that excuse against the Browns. We've hashed out this argument already on this thread, so you can go back and read the arguments if you want to.

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    Senior Member Array title="BlackAndGold has a reputation beyond repute"> BlackAndGold's Avatar

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Experienced OC targets.

    Brian Schottenheimer, former Seattle OC
    Jay Gruden, Former Bengals OC/Wash HC/current Jags OC
    Anthony Lynn, Former Chargers HC.

    Inexperienced OC targets but could come with upside.
    Ken Dorsey: Bills QB coach
    Mike Kafka: Chiefs QB coach/passing coordinator
    Matt Weiss: Ravens RB coach
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    I hope they go out and a find a creative offensive mind at OC.
    1 ) Tomlin track record for hiring them is pretty poor. Haley_Fichtner

    2 ) We still don't know who the QB is fr 2021.

    3 ) Tomlin himself could be gone next year, and the new head coach could bring in " His guy "

    Consider all of the above and riddle me this. What What OC worth his weight is going to want to coach for Pittsburgh unless it's an only option?
    The last time the Steelers won a playoff game it was 2016. That is six years ago. We are keeping the Jets and Lions company. The standard remains the standard.

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    Senior Member Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Born2Steel's Avatar

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    1 ) Tomlin track record for hiring them is pretty poor. Haley_Fichtner

    2 ) We still don't know who the QB is fr 2021.

    3 ) Tomlin himself could be gone next year, and the new head coach could bring in " His guy "

    Consider all of the above and riddle me this. What What OC worth his weight is going to want to coach for Pittsburgh unless it's an only option?
    3 ) The OC that wants to be on the short list to be the next HC for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    1 ) Tomlin track record for hiring them is pretty poor. Haley_Fichtner

    2 ) We still don't know who the QB is fr 2021.

    3 ) Tomlin himself could be gone next year, and the new head coach could bring in " His guy "

    Consider all of the above and riddle me this. What What OC worth his weight is going to want to coach for Pittsburgh unless it's an only option?
    if memory serves Haley was a Art II Hire or so the rumor mill would have one to believe because of his Steeler ties
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    if memory serves Haley was a Art II Hire or so the rumor mill would have one to believe because of his Steeler ties


    I think you are correct.

    The organization is know for having and keeping the power in decision-making when it comes to coordinators and assistant coaches. That has helped them keep head coaches in place because they install many of the coaching pieces around them, so ultimately, the organization is on the hook for bad decisions instead of burning the whole thing down to ashes.

    That has served them well keeping stability at the head coaching position.

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    Senior Member Array title="BlackAndGold has a reputation beyond repute"> BlackAndGold's Avatar

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    1 ) Tomlin track record for hiring them is pretty poor. Haley_Fichtner

    2 ) We still don't know who the QB is fr 2021.

    3 ) Tomlin himself could be gone next year, and the new head coach could bring in " His guy "

    Consider all of the above and riddle me this. What What OC worth his weight is going to want to coach for Pittsburgh unless it's an only option?
    Haley was a AR2 hire if I remember correctly, so was Canada I believe(maybe AR2 needs to step back?). Ben is big fan of Fichtner and Tomlin's passed connection with him got him the job.


    Some solid points overall but Tomlin is here to stay, unless it's a complete collapse. We can talk about Tomlin being on the hot seat but the reality is the seat is cool, I'm sure coaches around the league knows that.
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    Haley was a AR2 hire if I remember correctly, so was Canada I believe(maybe AR2 needs to step back?). Ben is big fan of Fichtner and Tomlin's passed connection with him got him the job.


    Some solid points overall but Tomlin is here to stay, unless it's a complete collapse. We can talk about Tomlin being on the hot seat but the reality is the seat is cool, I'm sure coaches around the league knows that.
    Oh, his contract is up next year, and I do not see Art offering a new one. Next year we have a tough schedule, a cap problem in free agency, and Ben either retired or on his last legs. I predict a losing season and no playoffs. That's enough for Tomlin not to get a new contract.

    The seat is warm.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    3 ) The OC that wants to be on the short list to be the next HC for the Pittsburgh Steelers.
    Hmmm, maybe, but I don't see it. We bring in the best out there for 2022. Who wouldn't want the rebuilding job the Steelers history and an easy owner to work with?
    The last time the Steelers won a playoff game it was 2016. That is six years ago. We are keeping the Jets and Lions company. The standard remains the standard.

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    Senior Member Array title="BlackAndGold has a reputation beyond repute"> BlackAndGold's Avatar

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    Oh, his contract is up next year, and I do not see Art offering a new one. Next year we have a tough schedule, a cap problem in free agency, and Ben either retired or on his last legs. I predict a losing season and no playoffs. That's enough for Tomlin not to get a new contract.

    The seat is warm.
    That's enough for Tomlin not to get blamed and get a contract extension.
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

  24. #84
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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Peon View Post
    Can we fire SOMEONE please?!
    I guess I have to be happy, because it's something... And someone(s).
    “They say you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone. So I got rid of everything to see what I had.” ~ Steven Wright

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    The Steelers missed the playoffs 3 years in a row between 98'-00', two of which were losing seasons, Cowher still got a contract extension before the 01' season.

    I for one believe Tomlin should be on the hot seat but this is how the Steelers do business.
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

  26. #86
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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Tomlin’s seat is not even warm.

    He is the Steelers coach for at least the next 2 years... and longer if Ben retires this year.

    Let’s say Ben walks this year... we know Rudy is the QB moving forward for at least a year... then if we somehow with the 2021 schedule end up 8-8 or 9-6... Tomlin is there for 2022.

    Then if said new OC and Rudy click and things show promise... my goodness... 2 more years

    When the presidential election cycle comes around again... we can look back at this and laugh and go... “we blame CV1 for Tomlin still being here”


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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Well the DBs were playing well and the fact that I totally forgot they brought Teryl Austin in...lol.
    Austin interviewed for DC with Titans

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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    Anthony Lynn, Former Chargers HC


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    if memory serves Haley was a Art II Hire or so the rumor mill would have one to believe because of his Steeler ties
    The Rooneys have made all of Tomlin’s coordinator hires/fires. IMO, it’s kind of odd that a HC doesn’t have control over his own coordinators.

  29. #89

    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post


    - - - Updated - - -



    The Rooneys have made all of Tomlin’s coordinator hires/fires. IMO, it’s kind of odd that a HC doesn’t have control over his own coordinators.
    I remember when Dan Rooney was getting up there in age. HTG warned us that the Steelers organization would take a downturn when Art Jr. took the helm. She mentioned having to deal with him when she worked in the legal realm and came away with very a pretty negative view. IIRC, she even said he was the type to take control (but don't quote me on the last, it's been a while).


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    Re: Fichtner and more let go ....

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I think he had a good year in Detroit where the defense lead the league in INT, then a lackluster year. Still, the guy was on the Seahawks staff around the time of SBXL I think and that was a good secondary. Likewise in Arizona 3 years later when Tomlin and the Steelers beat the Cards in SBXLIII.

    Austin is a good football coach, with a mindset for takeaways. Be a shame to lose him, but such is the NFL.
    I don’t think there’s any doubt that he’s a good DB coach.

    In Detroit, the Lions D was ranked 3, 23, 13 and 21 while he was a DC. Cincinnati was 30 in 2018 when he was the DC there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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