its rebuild /retool time

[dislocatedday]

As dislocatedday said:

Cut ties with Ben, Pouncey, Haden, Ebron, McDonald.

DeCastro was playing through injury; so, he gets a pass.

I keep JuJu. He is the only receiver who can get open consistently, catches the ball consistently, fights for extra yardage, and doesn’t run backwards.

Without releasing/restructuring any players that are under contract for next year, The Steelers are sitting at $202 million against the cap. Cutting ties with those players listed above reclaims approximately $51 million in cap space (Decastro would add another 8 million to it), which would bring that number down to $151 million.

If the cap goes down to the floor of $175 million then the Steelers would have $24 million to work with this offseason with the above cuts. I'd rather keep some younger guys who are still in their prime, rather than hold onto these older guys who are just not worth that amount of money. It's the rough side of the business, but I'd rather the team bite the bullet this year. They still have a good , young defense, and a good set of young WRs. The team is not barren or bereft of talent, but I do not think they are winning a Super Bowl with the current offense and they will need to get the Oline and running game improved...............and obviously figure out the QB situation.

The team can't just stand pat though this offseason, and I surely do not want them to do a bunch of restructures of these older players in order to get under the cap. That just makes the future cap situation even worse and prevents them from re-tooling/re-loading (...I prefer that term as there are some good pieces on the team....).

[FrancoLambert]

There better be significant changes in coaches and players.
Coming back with the same cast will change nothing.
A lot of dead wood has been exposed.
Time to make tough decisions.

[dislocatedday]

There better be significant changes in coaches and players.
Coming back with the same cast will change nothing.
A lot of dead wood has been exposed.
Time to make tough decisions.

I think they will finally make those tough decisions. I hope Colbert stays on at least 2-3 more years to get this team some more young talent and set them up with the QB going forward.....and perhaps bring in the next HC if something happens with Tomlin in that time span.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Washington needs more time to get open?

Please, clarify.

Sure he runs longer routes then DJ and Ebron! Should be obvious!

[86WARD]

Love how everyone wants to cut everyone and have plenty of “cap space”. The. What are you going to do with the cap space and the empty roster?? Lol.

[Fire Goodell]

Love how everyone wants to cut everyone and have plenty of “cap space”. The. What are you going to do with the cap space and the empty roster?? Lol.

tank for a qb?

[DesertSteel]

tank for a qb?

Reek for Rattler.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Love how everyone wants to cut everyone and have plenty of “cap space”. The. What are you going to do with the cap space and the empty roster?? Lol.

I know, laughable huh.

You plan to pay, or pay for the young guys that will contribute the next 4 years. Fitzpatrick, Watt, Bush,, DeCastro, Tuitt, Claypool, JuJu, Dotson, Okorafor, maybe even Johnson are the core to move forward with. I know the haters are gonna hack on JuJu, but if you can get him with a reasonable contract, he is the most reliable receiver on the team right now and you cant just let everbody walk.

Use the excess cap space for some veteran depth or fill some holes, while your draft picks develop. If Ben and Pouncey are not part of the Steelers in 2021, then you look for a veteran QB and center. AluAlu and Cam getting old, so need depth via FA or the draft. Haden is likely gone and Hilton and Feiler could get decent contracts, so look at moving forward with Dotson and then pay Sutton.

Some people think this is such a puzzle, but its been done by tons of teams, including the Steelers, all the time. Time to plan for moving to the future, rather than clutching awkwardly at the past, IMO.

[pczach]

I know, laughable huh.

You plan to pay, or pay for the young guys that will contribute the next 4 years. Fitzpatrick, Watt, Bush,, DeCastro, Tuitt, Claypool, JuJu, Dotson, Okorafor, maybe even Johnson are the core to move forward with. I know the haters are gonna hack on JuJu, but if you can get him with a reasonable contract, he is the most reliable receiver on the team right now and you cant just let everbody walk.

Use the excess cap space for some veteran depth or fill some holes, while your draft picks develop. If Ben and Pouncey are not part of the Steelers in 2021, then you look for a veteran QB and center. AluAlu and Cam getting old, so need depth via FA or the draft. Haden is likely gone and Hilton and Feiler could get decent contracts, so look at moving forward with Dotson and then pay Sutton.

Some people think this is such a puzzle, but its been done by tons of teams, including the Steelers, all the time. Time to plan for moving to the future, rather than clutching awkwardly at the past, IMO.

JuJu is also the most physical WR. This team needs more of that. JuJu and Claypool give you two guys that would compliment a physical offensive line and run game perfectly. That should be the objective going forward.

[teegre]

Without releasing/restructuring any players that are under contract for next year, The Steelers are sitting at $202 million against the cap. Cutting ties with those players listed above reclaims approximately $51 million in cap space (Decastro would add another 8 million to it), which would bring that number down to $151 million.

If the cap goes down to the floor of $175 million then the Steelers would have $24 million to work with this offseason with the above cuts. I'd rather keep some younger guys who are still in their prime, rather than hold onto these older guys who are just not worth that amount of money. It's the rough side of the business, but I'd rather the team bite the bullet this year. They still have a good , young defense, and a good set of young WRs. The team is not barren or bereft of talent, but I do not think they are winning a Super Bowl with the current offense and they will need to get the Oline and running game improved...............and obviously figure out the QB situation.

The team can't just stand pat though this offseason, and I surely do not want them to do a bunch of restructures of these older players in order to get under the cap. That just makes the future cap situation even worse and prevents them from re-tooling/re-loading (...I prefer that term as there are some good pieces on the team....).

I agree, for the most part. I still say that DeCastro is worth keeping. Pouncey has been looking weaker every season; whereas, DeCastro simply appeared to be playing injured this season. Im for a youth movement, but he’s also currently our best O-lineman (and I’m not sure that I want an O-line comprised of two rookies and three second-year starters).

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JuJu is also the most physical WR. This team needs more of that. JuJu and Claypool give you two guys that would compliment a physical offensive line and run game perfectly. That should be the objective going forward.

100

Plus, he’s consistent. DJ might be more dynamic, but you can’t count on him. When I see the ball heading his way, I assume he’s going to drop it OR he will catch it and run backwards. Every so often, he surprises me (and it’s usually a very good RAC), but it’s never a sure thing.

[Six Rings]

Fixed it for you

Co signed. You might want to add a better long snapper to the list too. Not that I'm for spending a draft choice on one.

1,000 posts.

[dislocatedday]

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I agree, for the most part. I still say that DeCastro is worth keeping. Pouncey has been looking weaker every season; whereas, DeCastro simply appeared to be playing injured this season. Im for a youth movement, but he’s also currently our best O-lineman (and I’m not sure that I want an O-line comprised of two rookies and three second-year starters).

I do not think the team should release DeCastro. I was just indicating that if for some reason the team needed to clear space that they could get another $8 million from him. I would just like for them to keep some of their proven, younger guys who are FA if they can.

- - - Updated - - -



100

Plus, he’s consistent. DJ might be more dynamic, but you can’t count on him. When I see the ball heading his way, I assume he’s going to drop it OR he will catch it and run backwards. Every so often, he surprises me (and it’s usually a very good RAC), but it’s never a sure thing.

I agree, and I think they should make a solid effort to keep JuJu. I do not think he should get a mega $$$ deal like Michael Thomas or Keenan Allen signed more recently, but more along the lines of $12 million per year or so. Diontae Johnson is not due for his next contract for another couple years and Claypool just played his rookie year so he is under contract for next 3-4 years. Signing Juju to a 3-4 year deal now seems reasonable to me as long as he is not wanting a mega deal. Sportrac (and I do not know the specifics of how it works, but I assume it compares his stats against other guys) indicates his market value is $15.75 million per year, which seems too high to me, but I am not an expert of this stuff.

I do not really think the team should release DeCastro. I was just indicating that if for some reason the team needed to clear space above $51 million that they could get another $8 million from him. I would just like for them to keep some of their proven, younger guys who are FA if they can.

[Six Rings]

Love how everyone wants to cut everyone and have plenty of “cap space”. The. What are you going to do with the cap space and the empty roster?? Lol.

Promote the younger, cheaper and more durable players? Pouncey is cooked. He has been out before, and we don't miss him much when he was in his prime. His last game could have been his worst.

Do you think Ben is worth 41 million next year?

I want to keep Ju-Ju. We can't afford it. Please go for more than that I'll take a 4th or 5th round comp pick in 2022. Ju-Ju is going to demand 9+million a year, and once " paid " This cat could very well go diva on you. Teams with diva receivers usually don't win a super bowl. Speaking of comp picks, I'm going to create a thread on it later. It's our best path in 2022.

It was 4th and 1 two nights ago on our window to play in another super bowl. We punted. Now, the aftermath and second guessing what could have been for the last ten years.

[teegre]

I agree, and I think they should make a solid effort to keep JuJu. I do not think he should get a mega $$$ deal like Michael Thomas or Keenan Allen signed more recently, but more along the lines of $12 million per year or so. Diontae Johnson is not due for his next contract for another couple years and Claypool just played his rookie year so he is under contract for next 3-4 years. Signing Juju to a 3-4 year deal now seems reasonable to me as long as he is not wanting a mega deal. Sportrac (and I do not know the specifics of how it works, but I assume it compares his stats against other guys) indicates his market value is $15.75 million per year, which seems too high to me, but I am not an expert of this stuff.

Exactly

From the list that I saw, the receivers making $15 million were in a different tier than JuJu. Honestly, $12 would be his highest (which a team with cap since could indeed offer), but I think that we can get him to stay in “Pittsburgh” for about $10 million.

[86WARD]

I know, laughable huh.

You plan to pay, or pay for the young guys that will contribute the next 4 years. Fitzpatrick, Watt, Bush,, DeCastro, Tuitt, Claypool, JuJu, Dotson, Okorafor, maybe even Johnson are the core to move forward with. I know the haters are gonna hack on JuJu, but if you can get him with a reasonable contract, he is the most reliable receiver on the team right now and you cant just let everbody walk.

Use the excess cap space for some veteran depth or fill some holes, while your draft picks develop. If Ben and Pouncey are not part of the Steelers in 2021, then you look for a veteran QB and center. AluAlu and Cam getting old, so need depth via FA or the draft. Haden is likely gone and Hilton and Feiler could get decent contracts, so look at moving forward with Dotson and then pay Sutton.

Some people think this is such a puzzle, but its been done by tons of teams, including the Steelers, all the time. Time to plan for moving to the future, rather than clutching awkwardly at the past, IMO.

I’m with you. Some of the lists are crazy though. Pretty much anyone that is a veteran or free agent is gone. It’s really like 1/3 of the roster. Lol.

JuJu and Hilton would be my top priorities this off season. As someone else said, JuJu brings a physicality that the team needs and match him up with Claypool and you’re solid for a long time. I’d also try to get him outside a little more as well. Hilton brings that game changing ability on defense...up there with Watt and Fitzpatrick. I’d do what ever I need to keep those two part of the core.

[teegre]

I’m with you. Some of the lists are crazy though. Pretty much anyone that is a veteran or free agent is gone. It’s really like 1/3 of the roster. Lol.

JuJu and Hilton would be my top priorities this off season. As someone else said, JuJu brings a physicality that the team needs and match him up with Claypool and you’re solid for a long time. I’d also try to get him outside a little more as well. Hilton brings that game changing ability on defense...up there with Watt and Fitzpatrick. I’d do what ever I need to keep those two part of the core.

What might convince JuJu to sign elsewhere isn’t necessarily money. If a team lets him play outside, he might jump at that opportunity. So, Yes, letting him know that he will play more outside for the Steelers might be critical during negotiations.

[W&M_Steeler]

Exactly

From the list that I saw, the receivers making $15 million were in a different tier than JuJu. Honestly, $12 would be his highest (which a team with cap since could indeed offer), but I think that we can get him to stay in “Pittsburgh” for about $10 million.

I doubt that JuJu is back. My bet is that some team like the Jets will overpay for JuJu on the belief that JuJu can be a true #1 receiver.

[teegre]

I doubt that JuJu is back. My bet is that some team like the Jets will overpay for JuJu on the belief that JuJu can be a true #1 receiver.

Honestly, they would be correct. When targeted 20+ yards he had a 100% catch-rate. He just wasn’t targeted downfield very often in this offense. In fact, in the five games without AB where JuJu played outside (before the moved him permanently to the slot), he had 100 yard games in each of those.

JuJu loves Sam Darnold. If the Jets keep Darnold, I could see them offering JuJu $15-$17 million. Add in DeVonta Smith, and BOOM!!! the Jets have a passing attack worth a darn.

[dislocatedday]

A concern for this team in another couple years will be the defensive line. They are getting up there in years, with Heyward and Alualu both already old by NFL standards, and Tuitt is in his prime at 27 years old now.

While I think the Oline is the immediate priority. I think starting next year they need to start spending some high picks again on the Dline. I realize they could not keep Hargrave last year, but I wish there was some way they could have.

There is still the old line of thinking that football is won in the trenches, and I agree in that everything starts from there, and I would hate for the Steelers to not be strong along both lines (...and I don't think the Oline is strong enough right now..).

[W&M_Steeler]

A concern for this team in another couple years will be the defensive line. They are getting up there in years, with Heyward and Alualu both already old by NFL standards, and Tuitt is in his prime at 27 years old now.

While I think the Oline is the immediate priority. I think starting next year they need to start spending some high picks again on the Dline. I realize they could not keep Hargrave last year, but I wish there was some way they could have.

There is still the old line of thinking that football is won in the trenches, and I agree in that everything starts from there, and I would hate for the Steelers to not be strong along both lines (...and I don't think the Oline is strong enough right now..).

I think D-line is already a concern. They sure had a disappearing act Sunday night! All three starters will likely be gone within the next three years (with the possible exception of Tuitt, but he's had a bad injury history so who knows- it seemed like a somewhat down year for him this year anyway). Unfortunately, the looming rebuild looks like it's shaping up to be a massive project. The 2010s were disappointing. The 2020s look like they might be downright ugly.

[dislocatedday]

I think D-line is already a concern. They sure had a disappearing act Sunday night! All three starters will likely be gone within the next three years (with the possible exception of Tuitt, but he's had a bad injury history so who knows- it seemed like a somewhat down year for him this year anyway). Unfortunately, the looming rebuild looks like it's shaping up to be a massive project. The 2010s were disappointing. The 2020s look like they might be downright ugly.

Yeah, I do have some concerns now but I just think the bigger concerns are on the offensive side of the ball. The team will not be able to "replenish" or stock up on everything at once. I think the Oline, another RB, a TE, and obviously the uncertainty at QB are ahead of Dline this offseason. I think getting high picks invested in the Dline becomes an absolute necessity in 2022 and 2023.

However, the Steelers front office may see things differently, and depending on what players are available when in the upcoming draft they may go Dline somewhere in the early rounds.

[dislocatedday]

I am kind of excited to see where the Steelers go this offseason. I think next season might be rough going, but I just want to see the team make some choices and implement a plan going forward into this next decade of football. I do not want to see them just sputter along indecisively and try to keep a core of aging and expensive veteran players together for "one last push". I'd rather see them keep some younger guys who are going into Free Agency this offseason that can make a difference for the next few years, and build the remaining roster through the drafts.

Of course, finding the right long-term QB sooner rather than later will make everything else easier.

[BlackAndGold]

JuJu is gone. No way should the Steelers pay him $15+ mil. He and Bud will bring back two 22' 3rd round comp pick. DJ and Claypool are your future. Dulac noted after the game that reports are JuJu wants to play in a major market and expand his brand. So New York or back close to home out West.


Sutton, Feiler(moves back to RT), Alualu are three players I see the Steelers prioritize to re-sign.

[86WARD]

JuJu is gone. No way should the Steelers pay him $15+ mil. He and Bud will bring back two 22' 3rd round comp pick. DJ and Claypool are your future. Dulac noted after the game that reports are JuJu wants to play in a major market and expand his brand. So New York or back close to home out West.


Sutton, Feiler(moves back to RT), Alualu are three players I see the Steelers prioritize to re-sign.

Nobody should be giving JuJu that kind of money. His price range should be in the 7.5 to 10 million range.

[Blast Furnace]

Even if you went out and got another OC, Tomlin's offensive acumen is about as good as what my cat throws up. He will quickly neuter him with his offensive desires and we will still continue to suck ass. Tomlin just can't help himself - he just brings everyone down to his suckaledge level! He uses his vast vocabulary to make you think he is smart, but when his see his work, you walk a way shaking your head with that WTF look frozen on your face! The point is: if you get rid of RF, nothing will change unless you also get rid of MT! Now, that could be avoided if Art hires a new coordinator and tells MT to keep his hands off and his mouth shut!

[teegre]

A concern for this team in another couple years will be the defensive line. They are getting up there in years, with Heyward and Alualu both already old by NFL standards, and Tuitt is in his prime at 27 years old now.

While I think the Oline is the immediate priority. I think starting next year they need to start spending some high picks again on the Dline. I realize they could not keep Hargrave last year, but I wish there was some way they could have.

There is still the old line of thinking that football is won in the trenches, and I agree in that everything starts from there, and I would hate for the Steelers to not be strong along both lines (...and I don't think the Oline is strong enough right now..).

I’m calling it now: JJ Watt will be playing NT for the Steelers in the 2021 season.

But, Yes, after next season, we are going to need to two starters on the D-line. Draft one early, and one late in each of the next two drafts. Hope to hit on another Tuitt and an Aaron Smith with two of those four.

[dislocatedday]

I’m calling it now: JJ Watt will be playing NT for the Steelers in the 2021 season.

But, Yes, after next season, we are going to need to two starters on the D-line. Draft one early, and one late in each of the next two drafts. Hope to hit on another Tuitt and an Aaron Smith with two of those four.

I did not want to suggest JJ Watt, because it would be adding another older player to the D-line, but this was in the back of my mind............if the team clears out some cap space and gets some money to work with, I could easily see JJ Watt coming here for maybe $5-$7 million per year on a 2 or 3 year deal to play in a D-line rotation. He would fill a need, and buy the team a little more time in getting younger help along the D-line.

[teegre]

I did not want to suggest JJ Watt, because it would be adding another older player to the D-line, but this was in the back of my mind............if the team clears out some cap space and gets some money to work with, I could easily see JJ Watt coming here for maybe $5-$7 million per year on a 2 or 3 year deal to play in a D-line rotation. He would fill a need, and buy the team a little more time in getting younger help along the D-line.

Exactly!!! A “hometown” discount to play on the same team as his brothers.

Contract-wise: Watt replaces Alualu.

[Six Rings]

I am assuming this team will start a rebuild/re-tool (call it whatever you want). I think it is time to do this, particularly on offense. Looking at next year's salary cap charges, and the need to free up some money, here is where I would start with players not coming back to the Steelers:

Ben - Retire or Cut - He has a $41 million cap charge, with a $22 million dead cap hit if he is cut. The team gets $19 million back.

Haden - I like Haden, but he will be another year older and he has a cap charge of approximately $15.5 million - If he is released the team carries a cap hit of just under $3 million...so the team gets back about $12.5 million

Pouncey - $14.475 million cap charge next year if he is on roster. If he is cut he will count $6.475 against cap but team gets back $8 million.

Decastro - Similar to Pouncey - $14.297 million cap charge. If he is cut he will count $5.547 million against cap but team gets back about $8.5 million

Ebron - Carries a $8.5 million cap charge. If he is cut he will count $2.5 million against cap, but team gets back $6 million

McDonald - Carries a $7.925 million cap charge. If he is cut he will count $2.727 against the cap, but the team gets back $5.2 million.

So with getting rid of those guys who are not worth those contracts, the team will recoup $59.2 million by my math.

This makes getting guys on the Oline a priority and the team needs a TE too, as well as QB obviously, but I think the team should bite the bullet and do this going forward. I think they could turn around and sign some of these younger guys going into their prime who are FAs (JuJu, Dupree).

I'm not opposed to an all new coaching staff, but I do not think Tomlin will get axed. At a minimum though, I see no good reason to bring Fichtner back as OC.

If the Steelers want to replace Tomlin, now is the time to interview people. What's the point in having Tomlin hire a new OC? And who would want the job knowing the QB is on his way out and the head coach might change too? The Steelers aren't interviewing.

Of the players you mentioned Haden is tricky. We might lose Hilton and Sutton. Then what? Haden's value goes way up. Un-drafted James Pierre becomes the starter as he has passes Lewis who very much looks like a bad draft pick. Nothing against Pierre but he ran a 4.59, has small hands and has limited leaping ability ( Pro day numbers ). This combined with a FAU schedule makes me wonder if he will be exposed in the NFL after starting a few games. Maybe he's a top technician? Dunno

https://nflcombineresults.com/player...Pierre&i=30239

Since we can save a ton on Haden, maybe he can give us a home town deal. I do not want to draft a CB high. It's not something the Steelers are good at.

[dislocatedday]

If the Steelers want to replace Tomlin, now is the time to interview people. What's the point in having Tomlin hire a new OC? And who would want the job knowing the QB is on his way out and the head coach might change too? The Steelers aren't interviewing.

Of the players you mentioned Haden is tricky. We might lose Hilton and Sutton. Then what? Haden's value goes way up. Un-drafted James Pierre becomes the starter as he has passes Lewis who very much looks like a bad draft pick. Nothing against Pierre but he ran a 4.59, has small hands and has limited leaping ability ( Pro day numbers ). This combined with a FAU schedule makes me wonder if he will be exposed in the NFL after starting a few games. Maybe he's a top technician? Dunno

https://nflcombineresults.com/player...Pierre&i=30239

Since we can save a ton on Haden, maybe he can give us a home town deal. I do not want to draft a CB high. It's not something the Steelers are good at.

Those are all valid questions/concerns. The Steelers have some work to do going forward and some key decisions to make. I assume Tomlin is staying, so I think the first thing is to figure out what the future is with Roethlisberger and the OC, and then work down from there on the other positions. I do not think there is any way they let all three of Haden, Sutton, and Hilton leave.