Fire Tomlin - 2021 Edition

[SteeleReign]

Tomlin's had 10 years to right the ship after the Super Bowl team finally got too old. I think we know what we have by now, and that is a coach who is adequate but nothing special. Some coaches are tactical geniuses who will out-scheme you, but he doesn't do that. Some are great teachers who get the most out of their players, but he isn't that either. Some are great motivators, and Tomlin talks a lot like one, but it doesn't actually do much. Some are great leaders and organizers, who find great staff and collaborate with them, but that doesn't sound like him either. As the saying goes, "A" people hire other "A" people. "B" people hire "C" and "C-minus" people. And that looks a lot like what we've got going on.

It's very frustrating that the last two-thirds of Ben's career went by without even seriously competing for a championship. Tomlin is near the top of all kinds of leaderboards because he had a running start, but the results over the next decade have been pretty ho-hum. The team's never been BAD, but it's never been that good either. Every team for the last 10 years has had some obvious problem, and it's always, "give him a chance, we're almost there, it'll be fixed soon, we'll get 'em next year," but then next year is not much different, except maybe the obvious problem has shifted somewhere else like a game of whack-a-mole.

Eventually, you can either keep stringing things along "just a couple more years" and holding out hope that things will be great once you finally get those couple problems out of the way, and then you look up and another frustrating decade has passed and you're still just drifting along, kind of like that one ex-girlfriend who was always vaguely dissatisfied about something, and you thought she'd be really great if she ever got over it, but eventually you figured out that's just who she was.

Well, that's who Tomlin is. The Andy Dalton or Tony Romo of head coaches. He's not bad, but he's not going to win you anything that matters. But you can't bring yourself to cut him loose, because there's so much history and you don't have anything better lined up - so just like your ex, you stick it out for another couple years, and another, until finally no one can stand each other anymore, so you flip out and start banging the secretary and spend your savings on a Ford Mustang. That's about where we are right now, or at least we should be.

That may be the single best summation of the recent Tomlin era I've ever read. I think it's time to write the Dear John letter and move on.

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[SteeleReign]

^ I pretty much agree, I thought at the very least overhaul the coaching staff but ultimately, yeah, this team needs a no nonsense detail oriented coach who will have the team prepped, who is on top of what his coordinators are doing and win when they’re supposed to (like Noll). I think the pitfalls of being a buddy or players coach are obvious

This team under Tomlin brings to mind a Chuck Noll quote:

"Champions are not champions because they do extraordinary things, but because they do the ordinary things better than anyone else."

Tomlin's teams have become lazy and undisciplined at doing the ordinary football things well.

We need to find coaches that demand perfection with the ordinary things.



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[Lloydwoodsonjr]

Personally I think the Steelers should move on from Tomlin for two reasons- the past and the future.

Only 2 of the last 11 seasons resulting in a playoff win. (Special thank you to Pacman and Burfict having a historical meltdown so we could beat AJ McCarron's Bengals.) That is a mediocre past over the last decade.

The other part is the future. The Post-Ben era will need to find and develop the QB of the future. What qualifications does Tomlin have in that regard? None of the QBs the Steelers have drafted under Tomlin are even good backups.

At least Colbert was here when the Steelers drafted Ben. But even then he is 64. When does he want to retire? Could be a good time for a switch at GM also.

The most important job for the HC going forward is developing the QB and offense. The Steelers have been underwhelming with a HOF QB and a talented supporting cast.

Tomlin has already said he does not want to develop a rookie QB. So... how is Tomlin the right coach to develop a top QB and offense going forward with a major rebuild?

[fansince'76]

I'm sure that next year the opposite of your wish will come true. Tomlin will be coaching and Ben will be retired.

Yep.

Flashing back to early 1989 (after finishing 7-9 in 1985, 6-10 in 1986, 8-7 in 1987 and 5-11 in 1988)

The Pittsburgh Steelers today fired four assistant coaches after several weeks of hints of a staff shake-up, and defensive coordinator Tony Dungy resigned.

The Steelers said Chuck Noll will remain with the team for the rest of his career.

The firings are the most in Noll’s 20 years as head coach and the first since he dismissed secondary coach Dick Walker in 1981. The Steelers ended the season 5-11, posting their worst record since 1969, when Noll’s first Steelers team finished 1-13.

Speculation over a coaching shake-up escalated Dec. 26, when CBS-TV reported that Noll had threatened to resign over proposed changes in his staff. The network said Noll told his coaching staff that he was considering quitting because he could not follow Rooney’s orders to fire some of them.

Read more: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...267-story.html

Like it or not, Tomlin isn't going anywhere for a while yet.

[that1guy]

Personally I think the Steelers should move on from Tomlin for two reasons- the past and the future.

Only 2 of the last 11 seasons resulting in a playoff win. (Special thank you to Pacman and Burfict having a historical meltdown so we could beat AJ McCarron's Bengals.) That is a mediocre past over the last decade.

The other part is the future. The Post-Ben era will need to find and develop the QB of the future. What qualifications does Tomlin have in that regard? None of the QBs the Steelers have drafted under Tomlin are even good backups.

At least Colbert was here when the Steelers drafted Ben. But even then he is 64. When does he want to retire? Could be a good time for a switch at GM also.

The most important job for the HC going forward is developing the QB and offense. The Steelers have been underwhelming with a HOF QB and a talented supporting cast.

Tomlin has already said he does not want to develop a rookie QB. So... how is Tomlin the right coach to develop a top QB and offense going forward with a major rebuild?

This. Tomlin said he doesn't want a rookie QB because he realizes that if he couldn't win playoff games with a future HOFer what chance will he have starting fresh? Tomlin talks but that's it they're empty words. Mike Tomlin is praised by talking heads for his never a losing season Stat and the negative is swept under the rug. Espn ect won't talk about his inability to win playoff games, Tomlin constantly being outcoached, the lack of football IQ his players have displayed for a decade or his clock management. All of these things have equated to 5 seasons (going on 6) without a playoff win.

[fansince'76]

Well, at least nobody has mentioned the old "maybe they can get Cowher to come back" theme yet.

[Mojouw]

Well, at least nobody has mentioned the old "maybe they can get Cowher to come back" theme yet.

Or brought up Urban Meyer. But we should start hearing about how great at least one of the Harbaugh’s are any minute now.

[Steel Peon]

Tomlin has already said he does not want to develop a rookie QB.

I have yet to see him develop any player, let alone a QB, and every "Raw talent" we've ever brought in under him has stayed raw. The only way a player does good in this system is if they're already good when drafted, and motivated to learn outside of our practices, which seem farcical to non-existent at this point. I honestly couldn't tell you what we practice the most because we don't look like we practice anything... Besides kicking, Boswell's a beast. Admittedly though, you could practice Devin Bush all day for 10 years and he'd still look dumb, no matter the HC.

[86WARD]

I have yet to see him develop any player, let alone a QB, and every "Raw talent" we've ever brought in under him has stayed raw. The only way a player does good in this system is if they're already good when drafted, and motivated to learn outside of our practices, which seem farcical to non-existent at this point. I honestly couldn't tell you what we practice the most because we don't look like we practice anything... Besides kicking, Boswell's a beast. Admittedly though, you could practice Devin Bush all day for 10 years and he'd still look dumb, no matter the HC.

I have yet to see him develop any player, let alone a QB, and every "Raw talent" we've ever brought in under him has stayed raw. The only way a player does good in this system is if they're already good when drafted, and motivated to learn outside of our practices, which seem farcical to non-existent at this point. I honestly couldn't tell you what we practice the most because we don't look like we practice anything... Besides kicking, Boswell's a beast. Admittedly though, you could practice Devin Bush all day for 10 years and he'd still look dumb, no matter the HC.

Do you have examples of other coaches developing players? Trying to gauge your definition of developing a player because a lot of players have come to this team and turned into Pro Bowlers...probably the most raw was Alejandro Villanueva went from raw to All-Pro. Diontae Johnson is developing nicely. Antonio Brown went from a 6th round pick to a #4 WR to a pretty nice player. TJ Watt is developing nicely but does he not count because he was a first round pick? Maybe Robert Spillane? Went from nothing to a rotational guy. I mean right there is a pretty large range of different players.

[Shoes]

Tomlin seemed to say (post game) that he was going to make changes on the O & D lines. I'd like to know who these players are that will be part of that change?

[86WARD]

Tomlin seemed to say (post game) that he was going to make changes on the O & D lines. I'd like to know who these players are that will be part of that change?

I heard in the game, yesterday, that Banner had checked in a few times as an eligible receiver…perhaps they are slowly bringing him back? Maybe Tuitt will return??

[teegre]

I’d like to see Tomlin choose his own coordinators. He was told LeBeau was staying on, and Butler was “promised” the reins afterwards. Tomlin wanted Raheem Morris, but that hire has been nixed at least twice.

A very similar thing has been going on with our OCs. I can get why… the team’s QB is always going to have a huge say in who is hired (and fired), but it seems like we’ve “settled” for a couple of meek coordinators who don’t want to rock the boat. Haley was an a$$hole, but at least he had the gumption to make some changes to the offense. What would be nice is to get an assertive OC who actually has some good knowledge of how to build an offense.

[Shoes]

I heard in the game, yesterday, that Banner had checked in a few times as an eligible receiver…perhaps they are slowly bringing him back? Maybe Tuitt will return??

Watt isn't fully recovered, as we witnessed yesterday, nor is banner, I believe he played 2 snaps. I forgot Tuitt was on the team but doubt he will be of much help this season. So I still don't know who these replacement players are.

[fansince'76]

I’d like to see Tomlin choose his own coordinators.

This.

He was told LeBeau was staying on, and Butler was “promised” the reins afterwards. Tomlin wanted Raheem Morris, but that hire has been nixed at least twice.

And we've continued to get the same LeBeau Lite "Tackle the catch!" garbage that the rest of the league caught on to about 20 years ago.

A very similar thing has been going on with our OCs. I can get why… the team’s QB is always going to have a huge say in who is hired (and fired), but it seems like we’ve “settled” for a couple of meek coordinators who don’t want to rock the boat. Haley was an a$$hole, but at least he had the gumption to make some changes to the offense.

Yet Haley is now an OC at the high school level.

What would be nice is to get an assertive OC who actually has some good knowledge of how to build an offense.

Agreed. Maybe when Roethlisberger hangs them up(?)

And how Danny Smith continues to hang on year after year is a mystery.

[Shoes]

I didn't know Tomlin had no choice in picking his own C? Fitch & Butler were his long ago buddies if I recall correctly. Who is choosing them? If it's Rooney we need a new owner! I mean at least Dan understood football.

[teegre]

I didn't know Tomlin had no choice in picking his own C? Fitch & Butler were his long ago buddies if I recall correctly. Who is choosing them? If it's Rooney we need a new owner! I mean at least Dan understood football.

Butler was the OLB coach under LeBeau. Some team tried to sign him as their DC, but we interjected and “promised” him the DC spot here if he stated.

Fitchner was Ben’s QB coach under Arians… much like how Canada was the QB coach under Fitchner. In other words: cloning.

[Shoes]

Butler was the OLB coach under LeBeau. Some team tried to sign him as their DC, but we interjected and “promised” him the DC spot here if he stated.

Fitchner was Ben’s QB coach under Arians… much like how Canada was the QB coach under Fitchner. In other words: cloning.

Yes, I know they promised butler LeBeau's job and I understand the Ben fitch union, but there is also this.

[tube517]

Tomlin seemed to say (post game) that he was going to make changes on the O & D lines. I'd like to know who these players are that will be part of that change?

Who? The preseason game 4 starters?

I mean the OL is already depleted and they need to start new players due to injury. DL rotates alot. There's nobody really "new" unless the Davis brothers can get a hat or Stephon Tuitt miraculously shows up which I doubt will happen this season.

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

I’d like to see Tomlin choose his own coordinators. He was told LeBeau was staying on, and Butler was “promised” the reins afterwards. Tomlin wanted Raheem Morris, but that hire has been nixed at least twice.

A very similar thing has been going on with our OCs. I can get why… the team’s QB is always going to have a huge say in who is hired (and fired), but it seems like we’ve “settled” for a couple of meek coordinators who don’t want to rock the boat. Haley was an a$$hole, but at least he had the gumption to make some changes to the offense. What would be nice is to get an assertive OC who actually has some good knowledge of how to build an offense.

Raheem Morris took over the 1st defense in the NFL and has it 21st... that doesn't look good on Morris or Tomlin. That defense has three HOF on it currently.

OC don't typically have a big impact on offenses from what I've seen. When Josh McDaniel was OC to Tom Brady he was the best in the NFL, and when he was the OC in STL he was the worst. How does an OC go from 32nd in points in one year to 1st the next with a change in QB? How important is an OC really?

With the Steelers the OC have all had similar success in terms of points scored from run heavy Whisenhunt to shotgun formation since Haley. The OC never scored more than 27 ppg. Roethlisberger has finished top 5 in points scored once in his career over 5 different OC and 16 seasons. Typically the Steelers score 21-24 ppg any given season, exceeding that only a handful of times with Haley and Fichtner who are typically hated by us as fans.

The next OC needs to develop Ben's replacement, assuming it is a rookie. Whoever is the best at that.

Also, Fichtner was Tomlin's guy. They are friends since coaching together at Arkansas St. in 1997 and 1998. I think Tomlin made a good call personally (scoring the 2nd and 4th most points of Ben's career- getting fired for scoring 26 ppg with less talent than usual).

I'm not saying Tomlin isn't capable of selecting an OC just that the QB drives the offense.

[tube517]

I’d like to see Tomlin choose his own coordinators. He was told LeBeau was staying on, and Butler was “promised” the reins afterwards. Tomlin wanted Raheem Morris, but that hire has been nixed at least twice.

A very similar thing has been going on with our OCs. I can get why… the team’s QB is always going to have a huge say in who is hired (and fired), but it seems like we’ve “settled” for a couple of meek coordinators who don’t want to rock the boat. Haley was an a$$hole, but at least he had the gumption to make some changes to the offense. What would be nice is to get an assertive OC who actually has some good knowledge of how to build an offense.

The offensive position coaches were really good at one point. Under Haley - Munchak, Mann, Saxon. All are now gone. Mann's replacement, Darryl Drake passed away. After Munch left, the o-line fell apart over 2 years. The WRs regressed. The RB depth is weak.

[Steeler-in-west]

Don’t care if Haley is coaching at the HS level - he was still better than his successors - which shows just how dysfunctional our selection process is for hiring coaches. The team is regularly just not prepared, it’s becoming more of a recurrence, and we’re not the only team with injuries, in fact our IR numbers are right around league average

[Dwinsgames]

if you have not watched the video shoes shared a few posts above .... WATCH IT

[Rotorhead]

Remember when Arians was the OC, and our OL was trash, and Ben was getting Hulk smashed almost every down because the WR routes took 5s to develop, but we were ok because Ben could shake off the first 3 hits before throwing it? Well, we are back to there now, only Ben isn’t young anymore. I have seen the exact same offensive gameplan rolled out every game this season. We can’t run up the middle, but that is all we do, we can’t throw even mid range passes because Ben is under pressure almost immediately after the snap against good DL’s (against poor and avg our offense has been much better and we get the W’s or are at least competitive). Going empty backset without a TE to help with pass blocking is just stupid at this point. Yeah I understand it makes the WRs easier to cover, but at least Ben will have more than 3s to try to throw the ball, and he will have 2 options for outlet passes with NH and PF. Why do our screen plays only have 2 blockers when almost every other team has 4? I may have missed something, but we have ZERO pick plays to get our guys open. Ben can call the plays all day long, but the designs he is calling are flawed. Until that changes or we get the best OL in football, we can expect more of the same. It is like Canada is calling college plays on a top team playing against a Div II defense where he thinks his WRs are just going to be open all day.

[86WARD]

I’ve noticed it as well. The play designs aren’t feasible against NFL defenses. Using your screen example, the first time you think maybe it’s busted. Second time you think maybe the defense made a play. Third time and beyond…WTF.

The Steelers WRs do not get open like other teams do. They aren’t schemed open like the Rams or Packers guys. All you need do is watch any other NFL game and you see guys open…really open. Not just “thread the needle” open. Steelers receivers are very rarely open like that. Almost like they run into the coverage opposed to sitting down in a zone or running a pick/rub.

[Shoes]

Moats on possible changes

starts @1:15

[Mojouw]

Teams only defend horizontal against Steelers. No need to deal with a vertical element.

The Seahawks are struggling because they’re the opposite with only a vertical component.

If you can’t pull the shape of the defense apart from both of those directions, you can’t create the space, angles, and breakdowns that cause acres of space.

[86WARD]

When the Steelers go vertical, those guys are covered like blankets. If these receivers are as good as they say, they should be finding ways open yet they are never open and this goes back years…the plays are very basic and easy to defend and they have been since Haley left.

[Mojouw]

When the Steelers go vertical, those guys are covered like blankets. If these receivers are as good as they say, they should be finding ways open yet they are never open and this goes back years…the plays are very basic and easy to defend and they have been since Haley left.

Juju and Claypool have been wide open and missed or under thrown multiple times.

Latest was in the Detroit game. Claypool could’ve wandered into the end zone but Ben couldn’t heave it far enough.

The WRs could be better but 6 yards a pop pass attempts tells you the source and root of the problem.

I seem to remember AB and Bryant being stupid open many times.

[pepsyman1]

Raheem Morris took over the 1st defense in the NFL and has it 21st... that doesn't look good on Morris or Tomlin. That defense has three HOF on it currently.

OC don't typically have a big impact on offenses from what I've seen. When Josh McDaniel was OC to Tom Brady he was the best in the NFL, and when he was the OC in STL he was the worst. How does an OC go from 32nd in points in one year to 1st the next with a change in QB? How important is an OC really?

With the Steelers the OC have all had similar success in terms of points scored from run heavy Whisenhunt to shotgun formation since Haley. The OC never scored more than 27 ppg. Roethlisberger has finished top 5 in points scored once in his career over 5 different OC and 16 seasons. Typically the Steelers score 21-24 ppg any given season, exceeding that only a handful of times with Haley and Fichtner who are typically hated by us as fans.

The next OC needs to develop Ben's replacement, assuming it is a rookie. Whoever is the best at that.

Also, Fichtner was Tomlin's guy. They are friends since coaching together at Arkansas St. in 1997 and 1998. I think Tomlin made a good call personally (scoring the 2nd and 4th most points of Ben's career- getting fired for scoring 26 ppg with less talent than usual).

I'm not saying Tomlin isn't capable of selecting an OC just that the QB drives the offense.

I think Haley took a lot of grief without much credit. Wisenhunt was the OC for 3 years with Cowher the the team averaged just over 23 pts a game for those 3 years. Arians was OC for 5 and averaged a little less than 23. Halley averaged just under 25 points a game for 6 years and got Ben to get rid of the ball quicker which kept him alive and took a lot of pressure off the O line. Ben might not have liked him as much as Bruce or Fichner but Ben's was successful with him. I don't think Fichner made any significant changes when he took over, at that point he was comfortable with what developed under Haley.

[teegre]

Yes, I know they promised butler LeBeau's job and I understand the Ben fitch union, but there is also this.

Whoa!!! Very interesting

That said, it’s it a coincidence (akin to how Schobert and Watt both played on the same Wisconsin team and now both play for the Steelers) or is it a legitimate causation???