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Thread: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Find a stat 2020 Ben ranks top 5 in. Top 10? I can find one. He is #6 in TDs. He’s average or worse in the other stats. Based on 17 years, that’s a drop-off.

    Did you feel like you were watching high level QB play in Rivers last week? I didn’t. But the season stats say the two are similar or Rivers slightly ahead.
    What/who are you comparing to? The statement that Ben is not what he was is the conversation. I gave you stats that show he still is doing what he has always done. If that means he was never top5 or top10 then ok. I'm talking about the QB play for the Steelers, this offense, and the difference between what you say is the issue and what the issue actually is. You go compare Ben and Rivers, has nothing to do with the conversation. OMG Ben doesn't scramble around like Mahomes, Ben doesn't have the completion% of Brees, whatever that means it has nothing to do with his numbers have remained fairly constant his entire career. I think you got started in the Ben for MVP debate and are still trying to show how much others are more worthy. That is not the debate here. If you think Ben is the cause of all the offensive struggles then cool, you do you.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    I’d have my eye on Oklahoma QB Rattler when he is eligible. He reminds me of Mahomes.
    He’ll be the #1 overall in 2022.

    In the Draft section, I talk about the team with the #2 overall pick this year should trade back, accumulate a bunch of future picks, tank the 2021 season... and use those aforementioned picks to create a great team around Rattler.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    As an AAC football guy, I have watched Ridder for a few seasons. Big arm and good mobility. This year Josh Allen/Carson Wentz. ???
    My view, my Memphis Tigers defense has never had a problem containing him outside of this season. But that was mostly the Cincy defense honestly.
    Ridder is worth taking a long look at but I haven’t seen anything special from him. Maybe the light came on for him this season.
    Please, clarify. If you are comparing him to Josh Allen, I’d take him at 32 without blinking. That said, it seems like you haven’t seen much from him (until this season)... and thus, maybe 64 would be a better spot to take him...???

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    What/who are you comparing to? The statement that Ben is not what he was is the conversation. I gave you stats that show he still is doing what he has always done. If that means he was never top5 or top10 then ok. I'm talking about the QB play for the Steelers, this offense, and the difference between what you say is the issue and what the issue actually is. You go compare Ben and Rivers, has nothing to do with the conversation. OMG Ben doesn't scramble around like Mahomes, Ben doesn't have the completion% of Brees, whatever that means it has nothing to do with his numbers have remained fairly constant his entire career. I think you got started in the Ben for MVP debate and are still trying to show how much others are more worthy. That is not the debate here. If you think Ben is the cause of all the offensive struggles then cool, you do you.
    Prior to 2020 Ben annually finished in the top 5-10 in multiple statistical categories.

    Sure, he’s only fallen off a tick here and a bit there from his previous stats. But those are enough to knock him to the average or below average tier(s) compared to the other 31 starters.


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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Prior to 2020 Ben annually finished in the top 5-10 in multiple statistical categories.

    Sure, he’s only fallen off a tick here and a bit there from his previous stats. But those are enough to knock him to the average or below average tier(s) compared to the other 31 starters.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    He hasn't had his greatest year, but he has thrown for the 2nd most TDs of his career and if he was playing today he'd set his personal record. Further, he's had 8 seasons where he's thrown for less yards and 11 seasons where he's completed a lower percentage of his passes. Aside from his 4 game slump, he's had a great year.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    He hasn't had his greatest year, but he has thrown for the 2nd most TDs of his career and if he was playing today he'd set his personal record. Further, he's had 8 seasons where he's thrown for less yards and 11 seasons where he's completed a lower percentage of his passes. Aside from his 4 game slump, he's had a great year.
    To me it was only a game and a half slump. We would have beaten Washington and Buffalo if not for several drops by our receivers.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Mason Rudolph's progression's today really put the 2021 draft into question.

    If the unthinkable happens and the Steelers completely flub to an early exit next Weekend, then it's time to start looking towards the future.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Watching highlights of the Texans game got me thinking...

    The Texans have surrounded Deshaun Watson with absolutely nothing. Ergo, once again, they are picking in the top 5... with a bunch of QBs available. Also, the Texans are desperate for draft picks. They could unload Watson’s contract, and use that money to sign free agents to surround the (inexpensive) rookie QB. Plus, by trading Watson, they could recoup a bunch of draft picks. As in:

    Colbert could trade our ENTIRE draft to the Texans in exchange for Deshaun Watson.

    It is a win-win.

    With Watson having so many years left on his deal, Khan could easily push that money down the road (in order to keep TJ, Hilton, and JuJu).
    Sorry, that's a hard no from me. Watson was the 2nd highest paid player in football for the 2020 season. He's NOT that good, and is part of the reason his team sucks.

    Watson also has an injury history. Check his knee.

    I'd rather get M. Jones in round 1-2 OR trade our #1,#2,#3, #4 and next years #1 for T Lawerence.

    Ben is 40 million on the cap next year, he's not worth that at this stage of his career.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    To be fair, the Steelers haven't had a "top tier" QB for many years now. Ben even in his prime was among the top of the second-tier "very good" class, but never among the "elite" QB's.

    It looked like Ben finally graduated to top tier for the 11-0 stretch, until, well... you know.

    Finding a "Top-tier" quarterback is rare and impossible in this day and age. The best the Steelers can do is just find their guy and go for it.
    That's some crazy revisionist history. Ben in his prime was no worse than a top-6 QB in a historically great grouping of QBs: Brady, Brees, Rodgers, P. Manning, Roethlisberger, Rivers. Brady and P. Manning are in contention for the best QB of all time, so being a notch below them is no real knock on Ben- almost all HoF QBs are a notch below them. And although Brees has better counting stats than Ben (playing in a dome in a pass always offense works wonders for your stats), I would have taken Ben over him given Ben's physicality and ability to extend the play and improvise. Plus, while no one ever doubted Ben's ability to play in the league, Brees washed out of the Chargers before resurrecting his career in NO. Nevertheless, while I think it's debatable, I can understand ranking Ben below Brees (who does have historically great stats). While I think prime Rodgers was better than prime Ben, I think most would give the edge to prime Ben over prime Rivers. So, at worst, prime Ben ranked behind the three statistically greatest QBs of all time and Aaron Rodgers (a sure-fire HoFer), and tied with Rivers, a likely HoFer.

    Also, when comparing stats, remember that Brees, Manning, and Brady have thrown thousands more passes than Ben: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...att_career.htm. Give Ben 2,000 more passing attempts and he probably has 500 TD passes by now. Rodgers is so impressive in part because he has beaten Ben in career TDs with significantly fewer attempts- his TD % is markedly better than the rest of his peers'.

    The "very good" tier at this time (mid -00s through -mid 10s) would have included the likes of Joe Flacco in his prime. Remember the eternal "is Flacco elite" debate? There was never any similar debate about Ben. Ben was certainly elite in his prime and essentially no one disputed that at the time. Ben is certainly a Hall of Famer, and I'd argue still in the top half of QBs in the league. All things considered, Ben is probably in the top 25 best QBs who have ever played in the NFL. If the Steelers can get another QB of Roethlisberger's caliber after Ben retires, then they'll be set for another 20 years.
    Last edited by W&M_Steeler; 01-04-2021 at 10:16 AM. Reason: Clarity

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    Senior Member Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Born2Steel's Avatar

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Again, Ben's ranking has nothing to do with his stats today compared to his stats for his career. Equals Ben has not dropped off. Not to the extent of he needs to be shown the door at the very least. That idea is ludicrous!

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Again, Ben's ranking has nothing to do with his stats today compared to his stats for his career. Equals Ben has not dropped off. Not to the extent of he needs to be shown the door at the very least. That idea is ludicrous!
    The idea that Ben should be cut mostly rests on the idea that Ben's arm is shot, that he's fallen off the cliff physically and can't function any more. If that were true, then I could see the case for cutting him- I just don't think it's true. I think the Steelers would be best served by working out an extension with him to help defray the Cap hit, let Ben play out his final 2 or 3 productive seasons while drafting the QB of the future in 2022 or 23.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    He’ll be the #1 overall in 2022.

    In the Draft section, I talk about the team with the #2 overall pick this year should trade back, accumulate a bunch of future picks, tank the 2021 season... and use those aforementioned picks to create a great team around Rattler.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Please, clarify. If you are comparing him to Josh Allen, I’d take him at 32 without blinking. That said, it seems like you haven’t seen much from him (until this season)... and thus, maybe 64 would be a better spot to take him...???
    Sorry. I only meant his playing style is closer to that of Allen/Wentz. He does have a big arm and has good mobility. He's not fast like Tannehill nor accurate like Rodgers. But I think he has a place in the NFL. Is that as a starting franchise QB? I can't even guess on that one.
    My alma mater plays Cincy every year in football, twice last season, so I have seen him a few times. I wouldn't consider him first round talent. (Which means he's probably the next great thing.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by W&M_Steeler View Post
    The idea that Ben should be cut mostly rests on the idea that Ben's arm is shot, that he's fallen off the cliff physically and can't function any more. If that were true, then I could see the case for cutting him- I just don't think it's true. I think the Steelers would be best served by working out an extension with him to help defray the Cap hit, let Ben play out his final 2 or 3 productive seasons while drafting the QB of the future in 2022 or 23.
    If you look at the numbers he is putting up this year, look at the numbers he has consistently always put up for 17 seasons, you will see he has not dropped off. Other QBs have come into the league that are doing it differently in that time, some doing it better maybe, so Ben has slid down the media rankings. BUT his production has not waned this season from his norm. Talking QB numbers only. The offense is not slowing down because of Ben.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    If you look at the numbers he is putting up this year, look at the numbers he has consistently always put up for 17 seasons, you will see he has not dropped off. Other QBs have come into the league that are doing it differently in that time, some doing it better maybe, so Ben has slid down the media rankings. BUT his production has not waned this season from his norm. Talking QB numbers only. The offense is not slowing down because of Ben.
    I agree. I think Ben is the least of the team's offensive worries. He's not quite what he was when he was in his prime physically, but he's still a good / very good starting QB (and I think he's probably better in the mental aspect of the game than he used to be). Calls to cut him based on the last few games are nothing more than knee-jerk reactions based on the inexplicable offensive miasma of the past few weeks, which I think has multiple causes (poor Oline play, terrible running game featuring untalented running backs (except Conner, who missed most of those games during the stretch of putrid O), WRs dropping too many passes, questionable offensive coaching and philosophy). Ben still has a few more good years left.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by W&M_Steeler View Post
    That's some crazy revisionist history. Ben in his prime was no worse than a top-6 QB in a historically great grouping of QBs: Brady, Brees, Rodgers, P. Manning, Roethlisberger, Rivers. Brady and P. Manning are in contention for the best QB of all time, so being a notch below them is no real knock on Ben- almost all HoF QBs are a notch below them. And although Brees has better counting stats than Ben (playing in a dome in a pass always offense works wonders for your stats), I would have taken Ben over him given Ben's physicality and ability to extend the play and improvise. Plus, while no one ever doubted Ben's ability to play in the league, Brees washed out of the Chargers before resurrecting his career in NO. Nevertheless, while I think it's debatable, I can understand ranking Ben below Brees (who does have historically great stats). While I think prime Rodgers was better than prime Ben, I think most would give the edge to prime Ben over prime Rivers. So, at worst, prime Ben ranked behind the three statistically greatest QBs of all time and Aaron Rodgers (a sure-fire HoFer), and tied with Rivers, a likely HoFer.

    Also, when comparing stats, remember that Brees, Manning, and Brady have thrown thousands more passes than Ben: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...att_career.htm. Give Ben 2,000 more passing attempts and he probably has 500 TD passes by now. Rodgers is so impressive in part because he has beaten Ben in career TDs with significantly fewer attempts- his TD % is markedly better than the rest of his peers'.

    The "very good" tier at this time (mid -00s through -mid 10s) would have included the likes of Joe Flacco in his prime. Remember the eternal "is Flacco elite" debate? There was never any similar debate about Ben. Ben was certainly elite in his prime and essentially no one disputed that at the time. Ben is certainly a Hall of Famer, and I'd argue still in the top half of QBs in the league. All things considered, Ben is probably in the top 25 best QBs who have ever played in the NFL. If the Steelers can get another QB of Roethlisberger's caliber after Ben retires, then they'll be set for another 20 years.
    Sorry to quote myself, but I was thinking about this more and thought it would be interesting to take a survey of the best QBs in their primes over the past 25 seasons (i.e. from the 1996-97 season until now). Excluding QBs who were in the last few years of their career during this period (e.g. Marino, Elway) and those who are just starting now but look great (e.g. Mahomes), and the list is the following:

    Favre, McNair, Warner, P. Manning, Brady, Brees, E. Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Ryan, and Stafford. Twenty-Five years is a long time in professional sports, so to be included in a list of the 12 best QBs to have their careers over that span is impressive enough and pretty much shows that a QB is historically elite. For the sake of argument, you might include Aikman and Young on the list, as they arguably had prime years left in the mid-late 1990s (Young in particular is a real stretch for this group- he is more known as a 1990s QB rather than for his play in the 1980s so I included him even though his best years were in the early 1990s and he probably would better fit in the 1970-1995 list discussed below), and you might include Russell Wilson as well (although the jury's still out and he still has a long stretch of prime career remaining). I'd exclude Newton from the list, as his prime was too short.

    For a comparison's sake to show how long we're talking about here, the previous 25-season span would cover 1970-1995 and include QBs like Bradshaw and Staubach as well as Montana, Marino, Elway, Kelly, etc.- in other words, 25 years is enough time for many great QBs to rise and play full careers in the league.

    So Ben is clearly in the top 15 of the best QBs of the past 25 years. Out of the group I identified above, I'd only rank Favre, P. Manning, Brady, and Rodgers as clearly above him. I'd rank McNair, Warner, E. Manning, Ryan, and Stafford as clearly below Ben. That leaves Ben to compete with Brees, Rivers, and possibly Russell Wilson, Troy Aikman, and Steve Young for the title of 5th best QB of the past 25 years. So, at worst, Ben is the 10th best QB of the past 25 years even when really stretching the definition to pull into the argument two Hall of Famers like Aikman and Young as well as a guy who I am including mostly on potential with many years ahead needed to prove himself (Wilson).

    Think of all of the QBs who have played out the bulk of their careers over the past 25 years. The number is in the hundreds at least. Out of that group, I'd put Ben no worse than 6th, maybe 7th. If that's not elite in your eyes, then I think you have a skewed definition of what constitutes "Elite." I can understand debating how much Ben has left in the tank and how the Steelers should proceed. I cannot understand how any Steelers fan could denigrate Ben's historical performance. I used to think of Ben as a better version of Steve McNair; I now see him as the 2000s version of John Elway. We'll be lucky to get another QB anywhere close to as good as Ben any time soon- we just have to hope the Steelers don't have the post-Elway Broncos' luck with QBs.
    Last edited by W&M_Steeler; 01-04-2021 at 11:41 AM. Reason: Clarity

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Look at Justin Herbert. He really has the chance to be just as good as Mahomes. Kid is a beast with a rocket arm.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Rumblings that Miami might be moving off of Tua...anyone watch the "Phins this year and have take on why Tua was so bad?

    Anyways...there are potentially a great # of current QBs that are going to be moving around this off-season. Wonder if the Steelers try and get in on a Winston style "rehab" signing or trade? I suspect that they won't prioritize the resources and will focus on building the best overall roster for another 2021 play-off run. But it is kinda fun to think on the hypothetical options.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Rumblings that Miami might be moving off of Tua...anyone watch the "Phins this year and have take on why Tua was so bad?

    Anyways...there are potentially a great # of current QBs that are going to be moving around this off-season. Wonder if the Steelers try and get in on a Winston style "rehab" signing or trade? I suspect that they won't prioritize the resources and will focus on building the best overall roster for another 2021 play-off run. But it is kinda fun to think on the hypothetical options.
    I don't think Tua was bad. I didn't see any from yesterday, but the 5-6 times I saw him, he just played it safe like a game manager. Not many dynamic plays. After 2-3 starts he made the statement that "the NFL isn't as hard as he thought it would be" and it was all downhill from there. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a great year 2.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    I don't think Tua was bad. I didn't see any from yesterday, but the 5-6 times I saw him, he just played it safe like a game manager. Not many dynamic plays. After 2-3 starts he made the statement that "the NFL isn't as hard as he thought it would be" and it was all downhill from there. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a great year 2.
    That is the same things I saw DesertSteel in regards to Tua. He is playing like a guy who is trying at all costs to avoid big mistakes and turnovers, but the offense then becomes very stagnant and does not really make any progress.

    It's the complete opposite right now compared to Justin Herbert, a rookie QB who was taking shots all over the field this year.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Rumblings that Miami might be moving off of Tua...anyone watch the "Phins this year and have take on why Tua was so bad?

    Anyways...there are potentially a great # of current QBs that are going to be moving around this off-season. Wonder if the Steelers try and get in on a Winston style "rehab" signing or trade? I suspect that they won't prioritize the resources and will focus on building the best overall roster for another 2021 play-off run. But it is kinda fun to think on the hypothetical options.
    I've read some of those same rumblings, which just further illustrates how hard it is to get a "Franchise" QB. Tua may become that guy, but it sounds so odd that there are already doubts about him after 1 year when prior to his hip injury he was the presumed #1 overall pick who would alter the fate of a franchise. I kept hearing the phrase "Tank for Tua" back in the 2019 season.

    Every year there is this assumption that any QB drafted in the 1st round is the "franchise QB", but I think history shows that maybe 1 in 3 QBs drafted in the first round become long-term, viable starters for the franchise that drafted them. It's rare when you get a year like the 2004 season where Ben, Rivers, and Eli are all drafted and all do become franchise QBs for those teams (..and each a likely HOFer...).

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by dislocatedday View Post
    I've read some of those same rumblings, which just further illustrates how hard it is to get a "Franchise" QB. Tua may become that guy, but it sounds so odd that there are already doubts about him after 1 year when prior to his hip injury he was the presumed #1 overall pick who would alter the fate of a franchise. I kept hearing the phrase "Tank for Tua" back in the 2019 season.

    Every year there is this assumption that any QB drafted in the 1st round is the "franchise QB", but I think history shows that maybe 1 in 3 QBs drafted in the first round become long-term, viable starters for the franchise that drafted them. It's rare when you get a year like the 2004 season where Ben, Rivers, and Eli are all drafted and all do become franchise QBs for those teams (..and each a likely HOFer...).
    Suck for Luck also didn't turn out so great in the end - talent is only valuable if the player wants to play. Also, even the 2004 draft wasn't entirely successful- J.P. Losman was also a 1st round pick that year.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by W&M_Steeler View Post
    Suck for Luck also didn't turn out so great in the end - talent is only valuable if the player wants to play. Also, even the 2004 draft wasn't entirely successful- J.P. Losman was also a 1st round pick that year.
    I used to always call him JP Loseman

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Given the option:

    Hurts or Tua?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    I'd let Rudolph try to compete, if he can keep nailing those long passes, it wouldn't be ridiculous to say he's possible starter material.

    His knock on him last year was he was too dink & dunk and wasn't a threat to hurt you deep. This last game showed very improved accuracy on those long throws.
    Last edited by Fire Goodell; 01-04-2021 at 07:08 PM.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Given the option:

    Hurts or Tua?
    Neither are cant miss prospects, but Id go with Hurts. More durable and I think more room to grow. He looks really poised and comfortable, especially running rpo’s. He’s gradually improved in last 3 years.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by cubanstogie View Post
    Neither are cant miss prospects, but Id go with Hurts. More durable and I think more room to grow. He looks really poised and comfortable, especially running rpo’s. He’s gradually improved in last 3 years.
    I dont know. Sometimes Tua looks more Like a college player to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    @Six Rings
    I can see disagreeing about paying Watson and/or giving up too much to get him. But, saying he’s not good... The dude led the NFL in passing yards, threw 36 TDs (and only 7 INTs), completed 70% of his passes, and has the second-highest passer rating in the NFL.

    @Born to Steel
    Thank you for the clarification.

    @W&M Steeler
    Luck was surrounded by nothing. His O-line got him nearly killed (literally... he almost died). Luck retired due to bring far too injured to continue. As in: he did not “quit” on his team.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    @Six Rings
    I can see disagreeing about paying Watson and/or giving up too much to get him. But, saying he’s not good... The dude led the NFL in passing yards, threw 36 TDs (and only 7 INTs), completed 70% of his passes, and has the second-highest passer rating in the NFL.
    Yeah I was scratching my head on his comments too!

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    @W&M Steeler
    Luck was surrounded by nothing. His O-line got him nearly killed (literally... he almost died). Luck retired due to bring far too injured to continue. As in: he did not “quit” on his team.
    He didn't say he retired because he couldn't physically play anymore; rather, he said he retired because he was tired of rehabbing and wasn't having fun anymore. He played through pain in 2016 and didn't want to do it again: https://www-cbssports-com.cdn.amppro...ant-to-live%2F

    If Ben had that attitude he probably would have retired 10 years ago.

    The NFL is a rough job, and Luck didn't want to do it anymore. I am not calling him a "quitter", but I haven't seen anything suggesting that Luck faced a situation like Shazier in which his injuries made it impossible for Luck to keep playing. Compared to people like Alex Smith, Luck's decision to retire at 29 suggests that Luck lacked the single-minded obsession for football greatness that successful NFL franchise QBs have. I am not judging him for it- few people have that mindset- but I am saying that his mentality prevented him from turning out to be the generational great that people thought he would be. If Luck did in fact suffer a career-ending injury like Shazier, then I would feel differently about Luck, but I haven't seen anything saying that he did.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by dislocatedday View Post
    Every year there is this assumption that any QB drafted in the 1st round is the "franchise QB", but I think history shows that maybe 1 in 3 QBs drafted in the first round become long-term, viable starters for the franchise that drafted them. It's rare when you get a year like the 2004 season where Ben, Rivers, and Eli are all drafted and all do become franchise QBs for those teams (..and each a likely HOFer...).
    Bingo. The only QB class comparable to the 2004 class in fairly recent times was the class of 1983 (which was even more celebrated than '04), and even that one had its duds (Todd Blackledge and Tony Eason). Ken O'Brien wasn't a bad QB, but he never lived up to being a first round pick either. Then there were Jim Kelly, John Elway and Dan Marino. So even the most celebrated QB class in NFL history only really had a 50% success rate.

    If your team gets an actual bona fide franchise QB in the draft, you can consider yourself lucky.

    One positive development in recent years was the establishment of the rookie salary cap. It used to be that missing on a so-called "can't miss blue chip QB prospect" wreaked havoc on a team's salary cap for years. And for a while there, the guaranteed money being thrown at the next "Big Thing" at QB before they ever took a snap in the NFL was getting more ridiculous every year. Thankfully, that doesn't happen anymore.

  29. #89
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by W&M_Steeler View Post
    He didn't say he retired because he couldn't physically play anymore; rather, he said he retired because he was tired of rehabbing and wasn't having fun anymore. He played through pain in 2016 and didn't want to do it again: https://www-cbssports-com.cdn.amppro...ant-to-live%2F

    If Ben had that attitude he probably would have retired 10 years ago.

    The NFL is a rough job, and Luck didn't want to do it anymore. I am not calling him a "quitter", but I haven't seen anything suggesting that Luck faced a situation like Shazier in which his injuries made it impossible for Luck to keep playing. Compared to people like Alex Smith, Luck's decision to retire at 29 suggests that Luck lacked the single-minded obsession for football greatness that successful NFL franchise QBs have. I am not judging him for it- few people have that mindset- but I am saying that his mentality prevented him from turning out to be the generational great that people thought he would be. If Luck did in fact suffer a career-ending injury like Shazier, then I would feel differently about Luck, but I haven't seen anything saying that he did.
    That is a very well-thought-out response. That said, I disagree with some of your points.

    Luck was in pain for years. Ben has had some nagging injuries, but nothing like the types of injuries that Luck had to endure. No, his injuries weren't as bad as Ryan Shazier nor Alex Smith, but it was more than your typical torn ACL.

    Luck might have been able to have the mental fortitude to push through the physical pain, except his ownership seemingly wasn’t committed to helping him out. Their O-line was awful (even worse than our abysmal 2008 O-line), for half of a decade; the few draft picks the Colts spent on O-linemen turned out to be lemons. The ownership refused to pay their one good O-lineman (Anthony Castanzo) and didn’t bring in any others. Similarly, Donte Mont-crete was the best receiver they added to his arsenal.

    As far as being committed to the game, Luck almost lived in the film room. Every week, he watched every second of an opponent’s game tape from the years prior (looking for tendencies). There haven’t been many QBs as committed to the mental side/to preparation as Luck was.

    Luck retired right before they drafted a stud LG, a rock-solid RT, a couple of very good RBs. Maybe if the Colts had added those types of players a few years earlier, Luck might have felt that they were as committed to winning as he was.

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    Re: The Future QB of the Steelers is...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    To his credit he's played for a terrible team. I think on a decent team he could be alright. Though he's the type of QB that probably needs a running game to succeed.
    Terrible teams can inflate #'s as he's passing all the time from behind in garbage time.

    Waton's cap number in 2022 is $40,400,000.00! Hard pass. Plus he has been 1-2 in the playoffs as has had 2 knee surgeries, both of which were grade 3 injuries. For those wondering, a grade 3 three happens when the ACL is completely torn off and can't provide any stability to the knee.

    Houston is screwed. They can't cut Watson in 2021. Well they can and take a 51,200,000.00 cap hit, which would hurt more than a grade 3 ACL.

    Teegre is a good poster, but after reading this post, he might change his mind.

    See below.

    https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/pl...un-watson/7744

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