Gameballs and Goats

[Six Rings]

Maybe I'm just being emotional, but I think we saw Father Time stick a fork in Ben Roethlisberger.

Nah, we are soooo predictable, it was only a matter of time before a DB jumped one of our bread and butter short passes.

- - - Updated - - -

Considering that we were starting a SS at ILB, the defense played well. Gotta give credit to the Bills for making halftime adjustments to target this area of the field. They ran Diggs into that zone over & over... and by the time we figured out how to stop it, it was 23-7.

Yes, Nelson and Sutton both slipped on the outside (which allowed Diggs to get two of those receptions / it wasn’t just the middle of the field), but the point is the same.

Speaking of Sutton, that field fumble that he caused was indeed a fumble. The refs blew a quick whistle to kill the play (making it non-reviewable). In other words, aside from one slip up (literally), he had a great game.

Where are our adjustments? The Bills made their's.

[CV1]

Perhaps he injured his elbow again because his passes look like presurgery.

Which game was the, “Funny Bone” hit?

Since then, his passes have been a tad less stellar than normal.

It’s been a wonderful ride with Ben... two Championships one lost.

One more would be rad though...

Just win the North... fuck the Browns... my goodness... we’ve played keep away from them for 31 years... keep it going


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Bark]

Goats Fichtner and Ben

Pretty much this. The offense has been dreadful and they need to ditch the dink and dunk stuff. The only halfway decent drive is where Ben dropped back and actually hit the receiver streaking down the field 20 or so yards. That was all-day early in the season. I'm surprised the pick-6's don't happen more often with the quick throws outside. Seems like Claypool has just about all but disappeared from the offense. It's not all Ben's/Fichtner's fault as there were enough dropped passes at the beginning of the game.

[Shoes]

Which game was the, “Funny Bone” hit?

Since then, his passes have been a tad less stellar than normal.

It’s been a wonderful ride with Ben... two Championships one lost.

One more would be rad though...

Just win the North... fuck the Browns... my goodness... we’ve played keep away from them for 31 years... keep it going


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it was the first ravens game.

[86WARD]

Perhaps he injured his elbow again because his passes look like presurgery.

Possible...

[Mojouw]

This game can basically be encapsulated with two plays:

Ben’s INTs

On 3rd-&-10, after the defense jumped (I’m not sure why we didn’t get a free play), the Steelers run the same formation, same play, same everything on 3rd-&-5. Due to this, the defense got a quick look at where the receivers were going to go... and the Buffalo defender jumped the route for a pick-six. If you want to pour salt into that wound, Claypool was WIDE OPEN for a TD.

Washington has his man beaten by 5 yards. If Ben leads him, it’s a TD. At a minimum, Ben throws it inside, it’s a reception of 25 yards. Instead, the throw is behind and also it goes to the outside (right at the defender).

SUMMATION:
The first play was a swing of 14 points, and the second was 7 points left on the field.

We can make all the rationalizations that we want, but both of those picks are on the QB. The throw on the pick six was to the hash mark side of a WR running to the sideline. He puts it on the other side of the WR, there is no chance for the DB to "jump the route". The deep ball was just a horrible throw. The kinda throw that when other QBs make it against the Steelers, people around here make fun of their QB for. These types of throws have been extremely common all year. Early in the season, teams still played Ben R with respect and he got away with them. Now? Teams are telling him he is done. They are playing up and waiting for him to float balls late, behind, or underthrow the WR.

I've been one of Ben Roethlisberger's biggest defenders for years. But, unless someone has a better explanation for why he can't get the ball downfield and why almost every throw is behind a WR...all I can come up with is that one of the following:

A. The elbow just isn't right and all the rosy off-season reports were not wrong, they just didn't realize how "not right" Ben would feel.
B. He is not able to "turn it loose". For either physical or mental hurdles that he has not been able to clear. But it looks like he is throwing a combination of darts and whiffle-ball out there.
C. 2020 is a "lost" season for Ben and he just never got conditioned well enough to go through a normal NFL season, much less 3 games in 12 days and he has a "dead arm" -- like a MLB pitcher.

Regardless of which choice we want to pick out...they all end up the same place. I am hesitant to shovel dirt on Ben's career or the Steelers 2020 season. But...it is getting hard to come up with another explanation...

[The Bark]

I think it's a little early to be talking about the demise of Ben and the end of his career. Up until a couple of games ago, his TD/INT ratio was pretty impressive. Something obviously changed and, while it didn't look it last night, maybe there is truth to concerns over his knee. I don't know. It's not like he can't throw deep, it's just getting rid of the ball in 2.2 seconds isn't going to allow for deep routes to develop. It's like they're afraid the offense line isn't going to hold. I don't like to make excuses, but I don't think three games in twelve days have helped, either.

The Washington game was my concern because it was sandwiched between two bigger games. The injuries have certainly piled up, but this change in the offense's direction started before them.

[DesertSteel]

Goats: the OC and the DC

[Mojouw]

I think it's a little early to be talking about the demise of Ben and the end of his career. Up until a couple of games ago, his TD/INT ratio was pretty impressive. Something obviously changed and, while it didn't look it last night, maybe there is truth to concerns over his knee. I don't know. It's not like he can't throw deep, it's just getting rid of the ball in 2.2 seconds isn't going to allow for deep routes to develop. It's like they're afraid the offense line isn't going to hold. I don't like to make excuses, but I don't think three games in twelve days have helped, either.

The Washington game was my concern because it was sandwiched between two bigger games. The injuries have certainly piled up, but this change in the offense's direction started before them.

The positive stats were "hiding" the same issues earlier in the season. His throws have been off-target, underthrown, and not crisp all year.

There is a reason that the 2020 Steelers offense looks like no other version the team has ever ran. When they were winning people (I may have been at the head of the line!) wanted to put a positive spin on Ben just being a "point guard" and getting the ball to his playmakers in space. And that was true. Then defenses realized that Ben wasn't Ben anymore. They realized he can't throw deep and he no longer makes accurate and precise throws into really small windows. So, they don't guard against the deep ball and they play everything else close and attempt to jump "mistakes". It started in early November or so. Then the Ravens and the WFT kinda refined the new defensive game plan. Last night, the Bills perfected it. Everyone plays within the "box". Compress the field. That takes away the run and the space for run after the catch. Then just basically play basketball defense. Buzz "passing lanes" to deflect balls, jump all over badly thrown passes, etc.

To return to my overall point...I think this version of an offense has been created on the fly to adapt to Ben not having the ability to move or throw deep anymore. While I am not a Fichtner fan and could care less one way or the other on his fate...I am having a hard time hanging the OC when his starting QB can only do a limited version of QB things. Just like last year...I will say that Fichtner is not really the guy you want drawing up an offense that has to "clever" its way out of QB limitations. For instance, Sean Payton has been wallpapering over the same issues with Drew Brees for a few seasons now. Of course Michael Thomas catching anything within 10 yards of him doesn't hurt...

[Fire Goodell]

I think it's a little early to be talking about the demise of Ben and the end of his career. Up until a couple of games ago, his TD/INT ratio was pretty impressive. Something obviously changed and, while it didn't look it last night, maybe there is truth to concerns over his knee. I don't know. It's not like he can't throw deep, it's just getting rid of the ball in 2.2 seconds isn't going to allow for deep routes to develop. It's like they're afraid the offense line isn't going to hold. I don't like to make excuses, but I don't think three games in twelve days have helped, either.

The Washington game was my concern because it was sandwiched between two bigger games. The injuries have certainly piled up, but this change in the offense's direction started before them.

The concerning thing is they're stacking terrible performances, and it started with Baltimore. If they played a Baltimore team with LJ, it would have been a guaranteed loss. From there the trajectory hasn't been righted, and actually has been pointing downward.

[86WARD]

The concerning thing is they're stacking terrible performances, and it started with Baltimore. If they played a Baltimore team with LJ, it would have been a guaranteed loss. From there the trajectory hasn't been righted, and actually has been pointing downward.

This is the problem I have...it’s not an isolated incident. It’s recurring every week...and that’s an issue...

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

This is the problem I have...it’s not an isolated incident. It’s recurring every week...and that’s an issue...

Its been happening all season, but chalked up to "winning ugly" or "style points dont matter".

Can we honestly look at a number of wins vs teams like Giants, Broncos, Eagles, Cowboys, Jaguars and think the Steelers played a good game in all phases? This isnt some mirage that happened in the last 3 games.

I have been watching Steeler football for over 40 years and will still do so proudly. I'm not going to pretend this season has been really good football being played or that I thought this team was going to be a Super Bowl team.

[The Bark]

The positive stats were "hiding" the same issues earlier in the season. His throws have been off-target, underthrown, and not crisp all year.

There is a reason that the 2020 Steelers offense looks like no other version the team has ever ran. When they were winning people (I may have been at the head of the line!) wanted to put a positive spin on Ben just being a "point guard" and getting the ball to his playmakers in space. And that was true. Then defenses realized that Ben wasn't Ben anymore. They realized he can't throw deep and he no longer makes accurate and precise throws into really small windows. So, they don't guard against the deep ball and they play everything else close and attempt to jump "mistakes". It started in early November or so. Then the Ravens and the WFT kinda refined the new defensive game plan. Last night, the Bills perfected it. Everyone plays within the "box". Compress the field. That takes away the run and the space for run after the catch. Then just basically play basketball defense. Buzz "passing lanes" to deflect balls, jump all over badly thrown passes, etc.

To return to my overall point...I think this version of an offense has been created on the fly to adapt to Ben not having the ability to move or throw deep anymore. While I am not a Fichtner fan and could care less one way or the other on his fate...I am having a hard time hanging the OC when his starting QB can only do a limited version of QB things. Just like last year...I will say that Fichtner is not really the guy you want drawing up an offense that has to "clever" its way out of QB limitations. For instance, Sean Payton has been wallpapering over the same issues with Drew Brees for a few seasons now. Of course Michael Thomas catching anything within 10 yards of him doesn't hurt...

This is exactly the same thing I've said in years past with regards to them and Tomlin in particular: winning isn't good enough; you have to work to improve on your weaknesses each week, otherwise, they'll catch up to you. In years past, it's been like that where there's been failures to make adjustment and we won - yet, here I was, critical as hell, lol.

So no, I don't disagree with you one bit - other than I do think Ben has, over the course of this season, made plenty of throws in tight windows where only his receivers could catch it. That's why I don't necessarily believe it's anything in his mechanics or injury related. They used to be pretty efficient with the long ball on play action passes, but you can't do that without a decent run game. For whatever reason, they're trying to get the ball out of his hands quicker and it's backfiring at this point.

At any rate, something has to change.

- - - Updated - - -

The concerning thing is they're stacking terrible performances, and it started with Baltimore. If they played a Baltimore team with LJ, it would have been a guaranteed loss. From there the trajectory hasn't been righted, and actually has been pointing downward.

I don't disagree, but I am willing to cut them a little slack. That movement around of the Baltimore game really screwed their schedule up. I don't think ANY team would have faired well playing 3 games in 12 days and suffering the number of injuries they have. Having an extra day off on what should be a (hopefully) uneventful, regular week should help a bit - but lord have mercy if they come out flat playing the Bungles.

[teegre]

We can make all the rationalizations that we want, but both of those picks are on the QB. The throw on the pick six was to the hash mark side of a WR running to the sideline. He puts it on the other side of the WR, there is no chance for the DB to "jump the route". The deep ball was just a horrible throw. The kinda throw that when other QBs make it against the Steelers, people around here make fun of their QB for. These types of throws have been extremely common all year. Early in the season, teams still played Ben R with respect and he got away with them. Now? Teams are telling him he is done. They are playing up and waiting for him to float balls late, behind, or underthrow the WR.

I've been one of Ben Roethlisberger's biggest defenders for years. But, unless someone has a better explanation for why he can't get the ball downfield and why almost every throw is behind a WR...all I can come up with is that one of the following:

A. The elbow just isn't right and all the rosy off-season reports were not wrong, they just didn't realize how "not right" Ben would feel.
B. He is not able to "turn it loose". For either physical or mental hurdles that he has not been able to clear. But it looks like he is throwing a combination of darts and whiffle-ball out there.
C. 2020 is a "lost" season for Ben and he just never got conditioned well enough to go through a normal NFL season, much less 3 games in 12 days and he has a "dead arm" -- like a MLB pitcher.

Regardless of which choice we want to pick out...they all end up the same place. I am hesitant to shovel dirt on Ben's career or the Steelers 2020 season. But...it is getting hard to come up with another explanation...

I don’t think that I was rationalizing. I saw them as two bad throws, for multiple reasons/on multiple levels: the locations of the throw themselves, not seeing the open man (not early with Washington, not ever with Claypool), running the same play twice in a row...

[Mojouw]

I don’t think that I was rationalizing. I saw them as two bad throws, for multiple reasons/on multiple levels: the locations of the throw themselves, not seeing the open man (not early with Washington, not ever with Claypool), running the same play twice in a row...

Fair. Wasn't trying to snap at you. I've been down/concerned about Roethlisberger's placement and arm strength most of the season. Early in the year I figured it was rust and conditioning. That seemed totally reasonable. Figured he would round into form. For a few weeks it looked like it was happening. Then about a month ago, the bottom fell out.

Maybe it's 4 games in like 3 weeks or whatever. Maybe it's the knee. Maybe it's a bit of everything. But he's not good enough right now.

Like I said, I'm likely emotionally over reacting but last night sure looked like alot like when you could tell Eli or Elway or Favre were done.

[teegre]

Fair. Wasn't trying to snap at you. I've been down/concerned about Roethlisberger's placement and arm strength most of the season. Early in the year I figured it was rust and conditioning. That seemed totally reasonable. Figured he would round into form. For a few weeks it looked like it was happening. Then about a month ago, the bottom fell out.

Maybe it's 4 games in like 3 weeks or whatever. Maybe it's the knee. Maybe it's a bit of everything. But he's not good enough right now.

Like I said, I'm likely emotionally over reacting but last night sure looked like alot like when you could tell Eli or Elway or Favre were done.

I think it’s a combination of a bunch of things:
-bad knee since Dallas
-arm fatigue
-age
-receivers dropping balls
-O-line not playing well
-O-line being injured
-Fitchner

[Mojouw]

I think it’s a combination of a bunch of things:
-bad knee since Dallas
-arm fatigue
-age
-receivers dropping balls
-O-line not playing well
-O-line being injured
-Fitchner

Hope you're right and I'm waaaaayyy wrong. Because your version is "fixable" and mine means we start prepping for Bens Zoom retirement ceremony.

I hate to be so pessimistic and "sky is falling" but (and I can't back this up) I really do think he's done.

Either way, I'll watch every game to the final second and am still rooting for a wild 2020 playoff run.