Anyway, whatever "yeah but" you want to put on it (because let's face it, we all know the outcome you want) ... there already exists a year's worth of evidence in this country alone that the places where they took extreme measures are no better off than the places where they did not.Originally Posted by Mojouw
Besides which, what they did is simply illegal - so there's that.
See you Space Cowboy ...
So you are just gonna wax poetic about civil liberties for a year and totally yada-yada that the way South Korea got to "less restrictive" was to MANDATE that the government track every single person in the countries movements via their cell phones as unimportant?
Who the heck is it that wants to get to a pre-determined outcome?
I started this entire thing by repeatedly saying that lockdowns were only due to the comically inept testing regime the US had and still has. That is the other factor in the comparisons that needs to be weighed. South Korea was accurately testing everyone in less than 1 hour as soon as days after they learned of COVID.
I think that there is totally a useful and productive conversation to be had about pandemic response flavors. But it isn't useful to separate things into lockdown and no lockdown without acknowledging the counterweights that come along with those designations.
Want schools and business to never close? Then you will have to consider mobilizing public funds to stand-up a rapid and accurate testing regime that is available to every citizen and produces results in less than week(s). We will also have to discuss mandatory government run contact tracing. Because that is precisely what South Korea did. It isn't like they just did nothing -- which is how you want to paint it.
So lets talk about it.It is a great idea. But be willing to acknowledge all the variables in play.
Our delusional and tortured friend needs a vaccine that produces a reality response.
What I am talking about is that first and foremost, in this country, the majority of government-mandated COVID responses are simply illegal.
Stay-at-home orders? Illegal.
Mask mandates? Illegal.
Business closures? Illegal.
Mandatory surveillance? Illegal.
Restrictions on movement? Illegal.
You don't like it, there are a whole bunch of other places you could go that just love government overreach. The world awaits you. But in this country, there are just oodles and oodles of laws laying out exactly why the government doesn't have those kinds of powers under any circumstances. Is that worth the 60,000 or so deaths that happened over the course of the past year? Absolutely.
Now, even in this country, some state and local officials decided to play cowboy and ignore the law to do what they wanted. What were the results of that? You got it - the most restrictive places are no better off than the least. I mean, the evidence is all right there from the separate experiments that were run in this country. Lockdowns don't work, mask mandates don't work.
What is really going on is that liberal Democrats have a long history of being so stupid that they think they can overpower nature, and this is just one more example. A big show is made of signaling their righteousness through pointless rituals of sacrifice and self-flagellation - and ultimately all that they succeed in doing is imposing ridiculous burdens on society while accomplishing next to nothing. It is rather like a religious ceremony, except because the government is their god, they often succeed in enforcing their religion on the general population.
I am sure that under the upcoming illegitimate U.S. government, we will all be doing a lot of running around for nothing to show our reverence for the God of Climate Change, the God of Racial Justice, the God of Income Inequality, and of course the big one, the newest and the king of all the gods, our Almighty Lord COVID. I can even tell you the outcome: As they always do, liberals will make everything worse for everybody.
See you Space Cowboy ...
Well....that is a bunch of crazy word vomit. But that is what you believe and that is fine.
BUT...you originally posted a summary of a study that you claimed "proved" a bunch of stuff. I attempted to have a conversation about that study and the claims it made. When I pointed out that there were trade-offs between the types of pandemic response protocols the study was comparing that posed significant civil liberties issues (at least on a philosophical level), you have retread to just yelling LIBERALS ARE EVIL CRIMINALS THAT ARE ENGAGED IN A GLOBAL CONSPIRACY TO DESTROY THE WORLD. ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS A MORON.
I mean, way to take a potentially interesting, valuable, and meaningful discussion and just drive it onto the rocks in like 35 seconds. For someone who claims to believe strongly in data driven results, you certainly ignore them willy nilly whenever it allows you to go on a solid rant.
I get Trump's appeal, I really do, but I mean, people can support the guy and still not fall for the conspiracy theories and shit lol
Just like many of us support his policies, but have no use for the man.
It's not even being in favor of Trump, it's that no one wants the left's crazy ideas.
Say what you will about the far-right extremists, the left's MAINSTREAM ideology is a bunch of conspiracy theories and unhinged rants, mixed in with a healthy dose of hatred and pseudoscience. It is utterly worthless.
Anyone who who would take offense at being "arbitrarily" labeled stupid or evil over following such an ideology would probably do well to consider whether that happens over and over because everyone else is crazy and doesn't know what they are talking about, or the simpler explanation: that no one wants their ideas because they're all dogshit.
But, as usual with liberals, it's everyone else that's the problem.
See you Space Cowboy ...
everybody that doesn't agree with your views 100% is a liberal lol. you're impossible man.
Word of advice if you're actually aiming for constructive dialogue you have to cut the shit about taking shots after you say anything. That's a good way to get people to shut you off.
But as usual with steelreserve, he'll continue taking shots cause he's a dick (you see how that works?)
Hes the biggest clown on this board. By far. Not even close.everybody that doesn't agree with your views 100% is a liberal lol. you're impossible man.
Word of advice if you're actually aiming for constructive dialogue you have to cut the shit about taking shots after you say anything. That's a good way to get people to shut you off.
But as usual with steelreserve, he'll continue taking shots cause he's a dick (you see how that works?
I told him a long time ago to stick with football posting...he was good at it.
Then he went nuts on Soapbox.
If he has children, I pity them.
None of it is illegal...lol. It is a mandate. it's not a law. If you don't follow it, nothing is going to happen to you. Businesses (ie: bars and restaurants) that have stayed open have received violations but no one has been shut down for violating a law...because they aren't violating a law. Theres a big difference between instituting a mandate (which governors can do...that's not illegal) and creating a new law (which would have to be followed).
If a business decides to follow the mandates or the guidelines, then as a patron or customer, you need to follow their rules. Again, not illegal. otherwise, you can be asked to be removed.
Uh ... None of what you said is correct at all. The government has been arresting people and padlocking businesses' doors shut, or turning off electricity and water to those who don't comply.
Yes, they do not have the authority to issue anything more than "mandates," e.g., suggestions. But since they use government resources including police to enforce them as if they were laws - then they have broken the law. They do not give people or businesses the choice to comply or not.
Additionally, the courts have ruled many times, "hey, you can't do that, the government is prohibited from doing it," and then the governors simply ignore the court order and have a different state agency re-issue the same order and use the police to enforce it. I have never seen such a blatant disregard for the law in my life.
If we were following the rules any more, at least a couple dozen governors should have been in federal prison since March, and by law several should have gone to the gas chamber.
See you Space Cowboy ...
So despite the clamoring that the internet was dead and we would all be getting our mind control chips soon...Parler came back online.
Wonderful to see these guys where the free-market has decided they belong - on the same hosting service as 8kun, white supremacists, Proud Boys, and Nazis. There is something there about the company you keep and all that...but I am too dumb to figure it out.
You're not wrong.
See you Space Cowboy ...
Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now
So, now that the recommendation is to wear two masks for added protection from respiratory droplets, I would expect the morons who discounted masks from the outset of this pandemic to finally admit they were wrong and woefully misinformed.
As well as the former denier-in-chief.
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India has about 1Billion MORE population than the US in a much smaller area than the US. By the numbers, India has between 1/3 and 1/2 the confirmed Covid cases as the US. There are probably several reasons for this but I think the highlights are simply this:
1. India has been under rule of Britain and government leaders that have made a culture more easily controlled and more apt to do what they are told/asked to do. Quarantine and isolate specifically, so numbers may actually be close to actual.
2. Because of this mentality of being ruled, Indians are probably not reporting symptoms at the same rate as a free American society would. This would be due to fear of those with symptoms, and possibly the entire household, being taken to more strictly controlled quarantine areas. So numbers may actually be very much lower than actual cases.
India is currently a Democratic Republic just like the US. The main difference here is the subjugated mentality of the Indian populace in contrast to that of the US. The environmental response has been very positive in both countries, but the socio-economic response has been much more disastrous and crippling in India than in the US.
You can probably stop there, and here are the real reasons:
1. India does not have 1/3 to 1/2 of the cases as the U.S. India has far more cases than the U.S., but does not psychotically count cases and sensationalize them. They only have the resources to address real emergencies, so that's what they do. Similarly, India has 2-3 times more actual "COVID deaths" than the U.S., which is because they count deaths that are actually caused by the disease, not every possible other cause of death - but your uncle's cousin's sister-in-law might have once talked to a guy who had COVID, so you must have died from COVID.
Like, really, back in May or June, random testing found 60% of people in Mumbai already had the disease and recovered without even knowing. It is just not very dangerous.
But in the U.S., our motto is, "We said half a million deaths, and damn it, we're going to GET half a million deaths." It is no coincidence that the severity of the disease across different countries correlates almost exactly with the ability to do mass medical programs and the pervasiveness of hysterical media. In other places, people have other shit to do, so it's not a huge deal. Take away the overboard human response to it, and you probably wouldn't even notice COVID was a thing at all.
See you Space Cowboy ...
Dr. Fauci discounted them at the start of this, did he not?
I don't believe the cloth strip across my face does a damn thing to prevent giving or getting the virus. I wear it out of respect for other people, not because I believe it works.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/25/us/to...spt/index.htmlTom Brady's dad reveals 'life and death' battle with Covid-19
(CNN) — Tom Brady's father spent almost three weeks in the hospital with Covid-19, he revealed Monday, calling it a "matter of life and death."
Tom Brady Sr., the father of Tampa Bay Buccaneers quarterback Tom Brady, opened up about his experience battling the virus in an interview with ESPN Radio's "Greeny" show.
"When the (NFL) season started this year, I was in the hospital with Covid for almost three weeks, and my wife was sick with Covid at the same time," Brady told host Mike Greenberg. "We didn't even see the first two games of the year."
The father of the NFL star said he and his wife, Galynn, were both "sick as a dog," although Galynn did not require hospitalization. Brady's parents are both 76 years old, and his mom is a breast cancer survivor.
"For the first two games when I was in the hospital, I didn't even care if they were playing much less missing game," Brady said. "It was a matter of life and death. Just like anybody goes into the hospital, it's serious stuff.
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What are the real numbers then?
Given a year's worth of comparative evidence, it would not seem like the places with strict lockdowns and mask orders are doing even the tiniest bit better than the places that do not have any. Given also that the entire premise of mask-wearing is to prevent asymptomatic spread, which they keep discovering over and over is not really a thing (only to quickly bury it until it is discovered again) ... Well, I'd feel pretty confident they're not necessary. Sorry, Fauci, wrong again.
Two masks, though? That's almost as if they're deliberately saying it to mess with people, seeing how far you can push a prank. Wear a buttplug, it's for safety! What's the matter, you selfish science denier, you wanna kill grandma? Plug up, we're all in this together!
See you Space Cowboy ...
Around 65,000 or 70,000 dead on 60 to 80 million cases.
No, really, the CDC's own research said that only about 1 out of every 5 to 6 COVID deaths actually had COVID as a "significant" contributing factor. 1 in 16 as the sole factor. All the rest were people near death anyway, and anything beyond a slight breeze would have killed them. But I bet you can guess how well publicized that was.
There have also been a fair number of more well-publicized reports about how many more actual cases than detected cases there have been, and those tend to be about 3x.
Basically, you've got a disease with a fatality in the low tenths of a percent, and lower than that for most people, yet they are still trying to make it look like many times that by using whichever number or percentage sounds the worst and counting on you not to have a good sense of scale.
See you Space Cowboy ...
Yeah, I'm sure that's it.
Imagine?
- - - Updated - - -
Ah huh. And how many illegal votes were there for Trump?
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I understand the inflation of numbers, specifically US numbers. But why should they be so skewed around the world. My post was to point out mainly that other countries, India in example, have other living experiences and history that may cause the populace to 1. Be more permissible to social distancing mandates, thus the possible reason for actual lower numbers. and 2. Simply not want to report symptoms as readily as more 'western' cultures. Thus creating false lower numbers.
Only talking about reported confirmed cases, not death toll vs Covid cases. Of worldwide reported confirmed cases, the US has about 1/4 of all of them. That number cannot be accurate. The US reports around 25M confirmed cases, not deaths. The rest of the planet makes up 75M cases of a total 100M cases. The reason has to be somewhere in the realm of other countries under-reporting cases, social distancing mandates are working MUCH better elsewhere than here(and reasons why), and the US over-reporting cases. It's just not possible from a vector standpoint for the numbers to be that skewed.
Not anywhere close to the amount for Biden. Trump would still be POTUS if there was.Ah huh. And how many illegal votes were there for Trump?
I'm not even going to argue with you or anyone else about it. It is what it is. You and all the rest have to look in the mirror knowing there was no way Trump lost this election... no way.
A raymond Bradbury story comes to mind with this election............... Something Evil Comes This Way.
I don't think it's that the numbers around the world are skewed.
I think it's that in the Western world, with overactive media and governments, we have been obsessed with looking under every corner for bad news, and have more resources to throw at it. We have found more of the cases that exist, and in the U.S. especially, inflated the number of deaths.
Elsewhere in the world, the approach is more practical because there is no other choice. Look for cases when you have a reason, respond to outbreaks that you can see, count deaths that are clearly caused for that reason, be alarmed only when there is cause to be alarmed. There is no bullshit because they have no time for bullshit, and overall they seem to be getting on with things just fine. Probably a much clearer picture of the "real" effect of this weak ass disease.
Overall, it is highly likely that around a billion people, give or take, have had and recovered from the disease, but few have been tested for it, and the death toll outside of the West is pretty accurate.
See you Space Cowboy ...
Steelreversethinking still thinks there have only been 60,000 actual COVID deaths in the US and Raiders here still thinks Trump actually won the election. How did these people get so fucked up? How does this happen?
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