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Thread: Veteran QB Roulette

  1. #31
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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    @Born2Steel, if I was the Eagles and able to trade back and pick up an extra 2nd round pick I would look at something like this:

    R1. Najee Harris RB (a good running game is a QB's best friend)
    R2. Nick Bolton LB Mizzou (Iggles LB group needs help)
    R2. Walker Little OT Stanford (Opted out of 2020 season and may slip) or Liam Eichenberg if Little is gone
    R3. Jordan Smith Edge UAB (have to look at Brandon Graham's replacement)

    The Eagles spent draft picks on Jaylen Reagor and John Hightower at WR in 2020. They also have Travis Fulgham under contract, so have some young WR targets. They still have some good RB's, but I think Harris is special type RB. Plus they have 2 5th round picks to look at a C to replace Kelce in a year, or look at a #2 TE to put behind Goedart, or D line, CB.


    Miles Sanders is a damn good RB.

    If they draft Harris, I hope Sanders becomes available.

  2. #32
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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    Miles Sanders is a damn good RB.

    If they draft Harris, I hope Sanders becomes available.
    For sure, Sanders is a good RB.

    But do you know who has more rushing yards at Alabama than Derrick Henry(3591)? Najee Harris 3843 yards rushing.
    Who has more rushing TD's than Henry (42TD)?........................................... ........ Najee Harris 46 TD.
    Do you know who had a better avg yards from scrimmage than Henry (6.3 yds/play)? Najee Harris 6.4 yds /play.

    I am not saying that Najee Harris is Derrick Henry, they are different type RB's as I think Harris has better cut ability, receiving and quickness. He does have better production at Alabama than any other RB of recent memory.

    I think passing on a potential all pro RB like Harris, because you are satisfied with Miles Sanders, is like passing on Dan Marino, because you are satisfied with Cliff Stoudt in 1983.

  3. #33
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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    For sure, Sanders is a good RB.

    But do you know who has more rushing yards at Alabama than Derrick Henry(3591)? Najee Harris 3843 yards rushing.
    Who has more rushing TD's than Henry (42TD)?........................................... ........ Najee Harris 46 TD.
    Do you know who had a better avg yards from scrimmage than Henry (6.3 yds/play)? Najee Harris 6.4 yds /play.

    I am not saying that Najee Harris is Derrick Henry, they are different type RB's as I think Harris has better cut ability, receiving and quickness. He does have better production at Alabama than any other RB of recent memory.

    I think passing on a potential all pro RB like Harris, because you are satisfied with Miles Sanders, is like passing on Dan Marino, because you are satisfied with Cliff Stoudt in 1983.

    Don't get me wrong. I love Harris.

    What I'm saying is that they are weaker at every other offensive position than they are at RB.

    I also think Bama's OL and offense in general was more dominant this year than any Alabama offense I have ever seen. Harris definitely benefited from that.

    Lastly.....comparing Sanders to Cliff Stoudt is way out of line. That's hitting below the belt.

    Sanders averages 4.9 yards per attempt behind that bad OL, and he's a good receiver as well. He had 1327 yards from scrimmage starting 11 games his rookie season.

    That would be a hell of a tandem!

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    Don't get me wrong. I love Harris.

    What I'm saying is that they are weaker at every other offensive position than they are at RB.

    I also think Bama's OL and offense in general was more dominant this year than any Alabama offense I have ever seen. Harris definitely benefited from that.

    Lastly.....comparing Sanders to Cliff Stoudt is way out of line. That's hitting below the belt.

    Sanders averages 4.9 yards per attempt behind that bad OL, and he's a good receiver as well. He had 1327 yards from scrimmage starting 11 games his rookie season.

    That would be a hell of a tandem!
    I get what you are saying. My belief is that you take the BPA at a position of need. RB is a need, O line is a need. IMO, Harris may be more impactful as an NFL runner than Nick Chubb or Derrick Henry, while whatever O lineman they might draft instead in the 1st round may be as good as Lane Johnson, because the top 2 or 3 OT's will be off the board by then.

    Reminds me of the Steelers drafting Troy Edwards, because they needed a WR and the other top WR's were already off the board. But they also needed O line IMO and they passed on John Tait, who instead went on to have a 10 year long career as a LT for the Bears and Chiefs. Seemingly they thought they had a bigger need at WR than OT. Steelers reached for Troy Edwards and instead had Anthony Brown at RT that year and had to go get Wayne Gandy in FA.

    So I think you take the best player, rather than the bigger need in the draft and risk reaching for the lesser football player. And yes, the Cliff Stoudt comparison was hitting below the punching machine and breaking your arm on a post. I will admit that I went there for a bit of emphasis.

  5. #35
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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I get what you are saying. My belief is that you take the BPA at a position of need. RB is a need, O line is a need. IMO, Harris may be more impactful as an NFL runner than Nick Chubb or Derrick Henry, while whatever O lineman they might draft instead in the 1st round may be as good as Lane Johnson, because the top 2 or 3 OT's will be off the board by then.

    Reminds me of the Steelers drafting Troy Edwards, because they needed a WR and the other top WR's were already off the board. But they also needed O line IMO and they passed on John Tait, who instead went on to have a 10 year long career as a LT for the Bears and Chiefs. Seemingly they thought they had a bigger need at WR than OT. Steelers reached for Troy Edwards and instead had Anthony Brown at RT that year and had to go get Wayne Gandy in FA.

    So I think you take the best player, rather than the bigger need in the draft and risk reaching for the lesser football player. And yes, the Cliff Stoudt comparison was hitting below the punching machine and breaking your arm on a post. I will admit that I went there for a bit of emphasis.
    Agreed. The 1st round is always for BPA. This is where you build a team around the best players possible. Although this draft is DEEP with OTs, only a couple really stand out from the crowd. And the 'best of the crop' sat out a whole season. Once Najee Harris comes off the board, the 'need' for a 1st round RB kinda goes away too. There are players from nearly every position group that could be in play in the 1st depending on how the board falls. I have done about 20 mocks on the different SIMs and I have even had Trey Lance fall to pick 24 once.

  6. #36
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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I get what you are saying. My belief is that you take the BPA at a position of need. RB is a need, O line is a need. IMO, Harris may be more impactful as an NFL runner than Nick Chubb or Derrick Henry, while whatever O lineman they might draft instead in the 1st round may be as good as Lane Johnson, because the top 2 or 3 OT's will be off the board by then.

    Reminds me of the Steelers drafting Troy Edwards, because they needed a WR and the other top WR's were already off the board. But they also needed O line IMO and they passed on John Tait, who instead went on to have a 10 year long career as a LT for the Bears and Chiefs. Seemingly they thought they had a bigger need at WR than OT. Steelers reached for Troy Edwards and instead had Anthony Brown at RT that year and had to go get Wayne Gandy in FA.

    So I think you take the best player, rather than the bigger need in the draft and risk reaching for the lesser football player. And yes, the Cliff Stoudt comparison was hitting below the punching machine and breaking your arm on a post. I will admit that I went there for a bit of emphasis.


    How the hell are the Steelers going get Najee Harris if everyone is going to take the BPA?

  7. #37
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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    How the hell are the Steelers going get Najee Harris if everyone is going to take the BPA?
    Honestly, I think it wont happen. Harris should not get past the Dolphins (who coached him at Senior Bowl) at #18. And...I think the Jets select Etienne at #23. So the Steelers should look at another position at #24.

    But stranger things have happened in the draft. Marcus Allen, Dan Marino, Randy Moss, Aaron Rodgers all slid in the first round, so who knows until it happens on draft day.

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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Honestly, I think it wont happen. Harris should not get past the Dolphins (who coached him at Senior Bowl) at #18. And...I think the Jets select Etienne at #23. So the Steelers should look at another position at #24.

    But stranger things have happened in the draft. Marcus Allen, Dan Marino, Randy Moss, Aaron Rodgers all slid in the first round, so who knows until it happens on draft day.
    Art Rooney has been waiting for a running game (2009) longer than I've been waiting for a TE. (2014) . I'd say Art has 100% of Colbert's & Tomlin's attention after this season. You never know he just may bump up enough to grab Harris.

  9. #39
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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    Art Rooney has been waiting for a running game (2009) longer than I've been waiting for a TE. (2014) . I'd say Art has 100% of Colbert's & Tomlin's attention after this season. You never know he just may bump up enough to grab Harris.
    As much as I do like Harris as a RB prospect, if the Steelers use draft capitol to trade up and draft any RB, EVER, it would be a huge mistake, IMO. Dominating the LOS is the goal, and using early picks on those that accomplish that has to be the plan. As Parcell's put it, get a QB, someone to protect the QB, or someone to get after the QB. I don't think there is any way this FO trades up to get Najee Harris. Now if he should fall to 24, now he is in the conversation. But he is still not the automatic pick.

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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    As much as I do like Harris as a RB prospect, if the Steelers use draft capitol to trade up and draft any RB, EVER, it would be a huge mistake, IMO. Dominating the LOS is the goal, and using early picks on those that accomplish that has to be the plan. As Parcell's put it, get a QB, someone to protect the QB, or someone to get after the QB. I don't think there is any way this FO trades up to get Najee Harris. Now if he should fall to 24, now he is in the conversation. But he is still not the automatic pick.
    It wouldn't be the first huge mistake they made and I'm sure there are a few more on the horizon.

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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    It wouldn't be the first huge mistake they made and I'm sure there are a few more on the horizon.
    As true as that statement is, it is still a mistake.

  12. #42
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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    As true as that statement is, it is still a mistake.
    Art doesn't care what we think.

  13. #43
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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    Art doesn't care what we think.
    Another true statement.

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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    As much as I do like Harris as a RB prospect, if the Steelers use draft capitol to trade up and draft any RB, EVER, it would be a huge mistake, IMO. Dominating the LOS is the goal, and using early picks on those that accomplish that has to be the plan. As Parcell's put it, get a QB, someone to protect the QB, or someone to get after the QB. I don't think there is any way this FO trades up to get Najee Harris. Now if he should fall to 24, now he is in the conversation. But he is still not the automatic pick.


    I agree with you. Particularly this year. I don't see them giving up draft picks to move up and take a RB in the 1st round. I just don't see it.

    They have a lot of holes to fill, and not a lot of cap room. I think they need every single one of their picks to try to fill those holes.

    In the unlikely event that they work out a trade for Big Ben and acquire more draft picks, all bets are off and it's open season on moving up and getting as many impact players as possible.

    I think the only way they take Harris is if he falls to them and they can take him without moving up. @El-Gonzo is correct. He may be there.

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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    Art Rooney has been waiting for a running game (2009) longer than I've been waiting for a TE. (2014) . I'd say Art has 100% of Colbert's & Tomlin's attention after this season. You never know he just may bump up enough to grab Harris.

    This is always a wild card w/the Rooneys (Chief, Art Jr, Dan, Art II). They will have their say. I'm not saying Art II will be Jerrah Jones and do some crazy moves but if they have a feeling about a player, then they will override when necessary.



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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    I agree with you. Particularly this year. I don't see them giving up draft picks to move up and take a RB in the 1st round. I just don't see it.

    They have a lot of holes to fill, and not a lot of cap room. I think they need every single one of their picks to try to fill those holes.

    In the unlikely event that they work out a trade for Big Ben and acquire more draft picks, all bets are off and it's open season on moving up and getting as many impact players as possible.

    I think the only way they take Harris is if he falls to them and they can take him without moving up. @El-Gonzo is correct. He may be there.
    Actually E-G says Miami will take Harris most likely.

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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Actually E-G says Miami will take Harris most likely.


    He also said that he could drop to us....you never know.

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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    In the 13 games Frank Reich was the OC for Carson Wentz:

    3296 passing yards
    33 TDs / 7 INTs
    60% completion percentage
    102 QB-rating

    SUMMATION:
    The Colts won​ this trade.

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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    In the 13 games Frank Reich was the OC for Carson Wentz:

    3296 passing yards
    33 TDs / 7 INTs
    60% completion percentage
    102 QB-rating

    SUMMATION:
    The Colts won​ this trade.


    Wentz wasn't the same, and eventually the entire Eagles offense slowly fell apart after Reich left as his influence faded into Peterson's.

    Peterson and Roseman got all the credit for the Super Bowl win. Reich was the guy that got the most out of the offensive talent, particularly Wentz......not the "offensive guru" Peterson.

    Unless Wentz is a disaster, the Colts got the better of this deal.

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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    I would like to see Mariotta ( not sure what the cost would be ) 3rd/ 4th? I just think with his skill set and Canadas supposed style...Run, lots of motion, jet sweeps, misdirection...Mariottas legs, and ability to pull the ball back, roll out and have the run /pass option threat ...would be enticing...

    THIS scenario would be a completely different Offense than the one we've seen for quite awhile!

  22. #52
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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by Disco1981 View Post
    I would like to see Mariotta
    can never have enough Hawaii boys on your team!

  23. #53
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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    can never have enough Hawaii boys on your team!
    Oh ya!

  24. #54
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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by Disco1981 View Post
    I would like to see Mariotta ( not sure what the cost would be ) 3rd/ 4th? I just think with his skill set and Canadas supposed style...Run, lots of motion, jet sweeps, misdirection...Mariottas legs, and ability to pull the ball back, roll out and have the run /pass option threat ...would be enticing...

    THIS scenario would be a completely different Offense than the one we've seen for quite awhile!


    I love Mariotta as a person, but I just don't think he's a good starting NFL quarterback. I believe he will mostly be a career backup from here on in his career.

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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by Disco1981 View Post
    I would like to see Mariotta ( not sure what the cost would be ) 3rd/ 4th? I just think with his skill set and Canadas supposed style...Run, lots of motion, jet sweeps, misdirection...Mariottas legs, and ability to pull the ball back, roll out and have the run /pass option threat ...would be enticing...

    THIS scenario would be a completely different Offense than the one we've seen for quite awhile!
    I kinda like him. He'd be at the least a bridge, but could get a rebirth like Tannehill and never give the job up.

  26. #56
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    Re: Veteran QB Roulette

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    I kinda like him. He'd be at the least a bridge, but could get a rebirth like Tannehill and never give the job up.
    Agree. He is still under contract with the Raiders for another year and looked good when getting some game time with them this season. I doubt it happens here though.

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