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Thread: Can Anyone Answer This?

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Can Anyone Answer This?

    https://steelersdepot.com/2020/11/ro...in-jumbo-sets/

    Look at the second set of moving pictures in the above post. What the heck are #47 and the deep safety for the Jags doing?

    As near as I can tell, the deep safety watches the ONLY other receiver in the pattern run to the corner of the endzone with the Jags CB in tow and just kinda doesn't react. So clearly he isn't giving help on the outside WR. Then he sees Ebron running a route all the way. He watches Ebron get separation and then decides to challenge the route/catch point from inside the endzone? Why isn't he moving faster to come up and eat up the space between him and Ebron? Bad recognition Or is there an assignment/role issue I don't get here?

    As for #47 for the Jags...what is he even trying to do there? Did he have a short zone coverage and the route splits zones? Or did he not get enough depth on his drop because he waited a beat to see if it was a run play?

    I mean, I guess it could just be that the Jags are 1-9 for a reason. Or was this clever play design by the Steelers?

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    NFL's Dirtiest Player Array title="86WARD has a reputation beyond repute"> 86WARD's Avatar

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    Re: Can Anyone Answer This?

    It almost looks like 47 is shadowing Conner there and it almost looks like the deep safety is caught staring at Conner as well and doesn’t realize what is happening.

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    Senior Member Array title="RunNGun has a reputation beyond repute"> RunNGun's Avatar

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    Re: Can Anyone Answer This?

    Yeah it looks like Conner is 47's responsibility. The corner on Ebron definitely thought he had inside help from the safety, but to me it looked like the safety didn't know if he should help on Ebron or help with Claypool on the corner, so instead he did absolutely nothing...or the NFL is rigged.

    On 2nd glance it looks like Conner was actually the LOLB's responsibility. 47 should have taken away the inside on Ebron's route. They were funneling Claypool to the deep safety by keeping outside leverage. 47 is at fault, IMO.

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Can Anyone Answer This?

    Thanks! It just looks to me like the safety got caught between decisions and didn't move fast enough.

    But not my background. So wanted to see what others thought. If coming out in a run look and then play actioning works often, Ebron could be repeatedly lethal on that route.

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    Re: Can Anyone Answer This?

    I can understand your confusion. I mean, how often have we see play action from the Steelers over the years? Half a dozen times maybe?

    But, to me it looks like the play action froze the guys down the center of the field who were trying to decide whether they needed to come downhill at Conner. Of course, like you, I'm a armchair QB at best, so . . .


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    Senior Member Array title="RunNGun has a reputation beyond repute"> RunNGun's Avatar

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    Re: Can Anyone Answer This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    I can understand your confusion. I mean, how often have we see play action from the Steelers over the years? Half a dozen times maybe?

    But, to me it looks like the play action froze the guys down the center of the field who were trying to decide whether they needed to come downhill at Conner. Of course, like you, I'm a armchair QB at best, so . . .
    Agreed. The play action was definitely the reason 47 botched his coverage assignment.

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: Can Anyone Answer This?

    Looks like the Jags are in man coverage with single hi safety.

    At snap of ball, the Steelers O line stands up and pass blocks, so #47 doesnt come to attack the run. (honestly, I would prefer the O line to show run block, to sell the fake. Kind of block it like an RPO technique on the O line.) If they were in zone, #47 would be getting a deeper drop to take away the lane.

    #47 looks to Conner slipping out in the flat as that would be his coverage responsibility. #44 on the other side, mirrors Watt, as that is his coverage responsibility.

    The single safety does a poor job of not reading Ben and playing passive. He has to know there is only 10 yards behind him and see that Ben looks to Ebron in the seam from the snap of the ball. Even as Ebron stems the corner to the outside, the Safety has to be breaking on the seam and not standing in cement, because no receiver stems a route to break in the same direction as the stem.

    Good pass and catch, but really weak play action fake and line action that didn't draw the LB's towards the LOS like you would want with play action. Essentially the play worked because the safety and #47 were in "no man's land" and the throw was on time and location.

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    Senior Member Array title="RunNGun has a reputation beyond repute"> RunNGun's Avatar

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    Re: Can Anyone Answer This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Thanks! It just looks to me like the safety got caught between decisions and didn't move fast enough.

    But not my background. So wanted to see what others thought. If coming out in a run look and then play actioning works often, Ebron could be repeatedly lethal on that route.
    There is some unique personnel with that package. Should create some mismatches in the passing game if defenses go heavy, especially in the red zone. It'd be great if they could actually run the ball out of it though to make it even more lethal.

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    Senior Member Array title="RunNGun has a reputation beyond repute"> RunNGun's Avatar

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    Re: Can Anyone Answer This?

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Looks like the Jags are in man coverage with single hi safety.

    At snap of ball, the Steelers O line stands up and pass blocks, so #47 doesnt come to attack the run. (honestly, I would prefer the O line to show run block, to sell the fake. Kind of block it like an RPO technique on the O line.) If they were in zone, #47 would be getting a deeper drop to take away the lane.

    #47 looks to Conner slipping out in the flat as that would be his coverage responsibility. #44 on the other side, mirrors Watt, as that is his coverage responsibility.

    The single safety does a poor job of not reading Ben and playing passive. He has to know there is only 10 yards behind him and see that Ben looks to Ebron in the seam from the snap of the ball. Even as Ebron stems the corner to the outside, the Safety has to be breaking on the seam and not standing in cement, because no receiver stems a route to break in the same direction as the stem.

    Good pass and catch, but really weak play action fake and line action that didn't draw the LB's towards the LOS like you would want with play action. Essentially the play worked because the safety and #47 were in "no man's land" and the throw was on time and location.
    If you watch the video clear to the end you can see that the Jags LOLB was actually mirroring Conner. Imo, 47 was suppose to be in a hook zone, but either peaked in the backfield too long, or thought he was in man coverage on Conner for a split second.

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Can Anyone Answer This?

    Ok. So follow up question, shouldn't the safety have closed the distance? Once he doesn't follow the WR to the corner, what's the point of keeping depth? Ebron, to my untrained eye, is clearly abandoning any second move to the outside and it looks like the other defender is on his outside hip anyways.

    I played other sports but it was never a good idea to give ground. Sure keep stuff in front of you, but the goaline is the final straw anyway. It seems the "play" would've been to break towards the TE and at least squeeze the 2indow for the throw.

    It's one play. I get that these guys have split seconds to make a choice. Just seems that in this case the player didn't make a choice.

    Not arguing with anyone. Just thought it was interesting to talk about. Learning stuff is fun.

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    Senior Member Array title="RunNGun has a reputation beyond repute"> RunNGun's Avatar

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    Re: Can Anyone Answer This?

    I think the safety did his job there. He was shutting down the post route from Claypool, forcing an outside route, where the CB already had outside leverage. If 47 does his job, then Ebron is basically double covered, as well as Claypool.

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: Can Anyone Answer This?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    If you watch the video clear to the end you can see that the Jags LOLB was actually mirroring Conner. Imo, 47 was suppose to be in a hook zone, but either peaked in the backfield too long, or thought he was in man coverage on Conner for a split second.
    When the Steelers go 2 TE right and no WR, the CB takes the outside gap and the Sam LB (Correia) takes the gap over Hawkins. You can see when Ebron and the WR release, the coverage is man. That leaves the MLB(47) on the first RB to his left and the WILL LB (Jack#44) has the RB to the defensive right(Watt). If Hawkins reports as eligible, then the SAM LB most likely has him in coverage and he comes off the line when he sees Ben open his shoulders to throw.

    I think the MLB was waiting for Conner to release thru B gap, but saw Ben locked in on the seam, so tried late to close down the throwing lane.

    Still, the FS played that like a road pylon.

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    Re: Can Anyone Answer This?

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    When the Steelers go 2 TE right and no WR, the CB takes the outside gap and the Sam LB (Correia) takes the gap over Hawkins. You can see when Ebron and the WR release, the coverage is man. That leaves the MLB(47) on the first RB to his left and the WILL LB (Jack#44) has the RB to the defensive right(Watt). If Hawkins reports as eligible, then the SAM LB most likely has him in coverage and he comes off the line when he sees Ben open his shoulders to throw.

    I think the MLB was waiting for Conner to release thru B gap, but saw Ben locked in on the seam, so tried late to close down the throwing lane.

    Still, the FS played that like a road pylon.
    It was cover 1 hole. 47 was in a hook zone, but you're right about Conner being 47's first responsibility. 47 was definitely way too late reacting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Imo, the safety was damned if he did and damned if he don't. If he cheats to Ebron then Claypool runs a post for an easy TD. It looked like an option route Claypool was running where the safety dictated if he was going to run an outside or inside route.

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: Can Anyone Answer This?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    It was cover 1 hole. 47 was in a hook zone, but you're right about Conner being 47's first responsibility. 47 was definitely way too late reacting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Imo, the safety was damned if he did and damned if he don't. If he cheats to Ebron then Claypool runs a post for an easy TD. It looked like an option route Claypool was running where the safety dictated if he was going to run an outside or inside route.
    Yup, but I think the MLB reads pass instantly and is shading to Conner with the thought he is leaking out in hook/curl, but when Conner doesnt and he sees Ben locked on the TE, the MLB then looks to get depth, but its too late.

    As for the FS...if he is in a position to read Ben's eyes, then he HAS TO shade to the TE, as Ben never looked anywhere else. Look at where the FS is compared to the O in the end zone writing, both when the ball is in Ben's hands and then when its delivered to Ebron. The difference is barely more than a yard. He is an effin pylon.

    The FS has 3 choices in that situation:
    -shade to Claypool thinking that Ben is looking him off
    -Shade to Ebron by reading Ben's eyes, head and shoulders
    -Stand between both and be as useless as an orange road pylon in coverage.

    The FS chose the 3rd option and being in "no mans land" is as useless as a kick stand on a tank. That is exactly what he should be hearing in film session this week and better learn from it.

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