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Thread: Big Ben MVP?

  1. #91
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    And by the time the season is over I can see Ben being in the top 5 in every major statistical category. The season is barely half over and he's just now building rapport with 2 of his top 3 receivers.
    If that happens, the argument shifts and his MVP case becomes highly realistic. Which is what I have said since the beginning. If he is top 4 or better in major passing stats and the Steelers grab the #1 seed in the AFC and/or go undefeated...then his case is strong. If his stats stay middle of the pack, I do not think that an amazing team record will be enough for him to leapfrog those ahead of him on the stat board.

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    If that happens, the argument shifts and his MVP case becomes highly realistic. Which is what I have said since the beginning. If he is top 4 or better in major passing stats and the Steelers grab the #1 seed in the AFC and/or go undefeated...then his case is strong. If his stats stay middle of the pack, I do not think that an amazing team record will be enough for him to leapfrog those ahead of him on the stat board.
    Honestly, I think there's a greater chance of Ben stockpiling stats over the next 7 games than there is of the team going 7-0. But hey... who knows... maybe they will both happen.

  3. #93
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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    In 2017, Brady:

    Led the league in passing yards.
    Was 4th in completion percentage.
    Was 5th in yards per attempt.
    Was 3rd in TDs (only 2 behind the league leader).
    Was 3rd in QB rating.

    The numbers in context of the 2017 NFL year, paint a different picture than those same statistics would paint in the 2020 NFL year.

    Ben is 600 yards off the league lead. 6 TDs off the lead. 12 points off the rate lead. 7% points off the completion lead. 2 full yards per attempt off the pace.

    Ben is my favorite NFL QB - has been his entire career. I've always thought he was consistently under-rated by fans, pundits, and NFL "experts" basically every season. I think he has done more than he has been credited for his entire career. If he leads the 2020 Steelers to 12 or more wins, it will be another impressive achievement in a HOF resume. If they go undefeated, he locks in his legacy for all time. If he leads the Steelers to a SB victory, his legacy goes up into the top tiers of "all time" guys.

    But I just don't see how that equates with an MVP if he continues to have middle of the road stats compared to the rest of the league.
    fair points but again Ben is the sole difference in this team being 9-0
    I don't want to do it but its because the media does it...IF and i stress that ARod was doing the EXACT same thing as Ben is he's the universal LOCK.
    And then if anyone 'tried' to debate it they'd say but but but he's got this team 9-0 after last years atrocity blah blah blah and well its Aaron Rodgers.
    and then the circle jerk continues.

    Now I'm not saying Ben is MVP never said that nor will I BUT he should be in the discussion.
    It was Wilsons to lose and now i'm not sure where he stands really
    Mahomes and then it's Kyler/Ben in my book but Mahomes is going to be tough to catch

  4. #94
    Senior Member Array title="HollywoodSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> HollywoodSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelersNorth View Post
    fair points but again Ben is the sole difference in this team being 9-0
    I don't want to do it but its because the media does it...IF and i stress that ARod was doing the EXACT same thing as Ben is he's the universal LOCK.
    And then if anyone 'tried' to debate it they'd say but but but he's got this team 9-0 after last years atrocity blah blah blah and well its Aaron Rodgers.
    and then the circle jerk continues.

    Now I'm not saying Ben is MVP never said that nor will I BUT he should be in the discussion.


    It was Wilsons to lose and now i'm not sure where he stands really
    Mahomes and then it's Kyler/Ben in my book but Mahomes is going to be tough to catch
    I think the ONLY way for Ben to win MVP without being at the very top of the stat board (which he won't be. We just won't get the type of passing yards that Mahomes, Wilson, and Rodgers get) is if he goes 16-0 and simply can't be ignored. And then only if he's very close to the top with most of his stats.

    We can argue all day that the Steelers need Ben to win, but the exact same thing holds true for the other potential MVPs. What do Seattle, Green Bay, and KC look like without their QB? Seattle and Green Bay would probably lose every game. Those QBs are even more valuable to their teams than Ben is to ours. At least we have a defense.

    But if we DO go 16-0 it will get very interesting.

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    Senior Member Array title="RunNGun has a reputation beyond repute"> RunNGun's Avatar

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    I think the ONLY way for Ben to win MVP without being at the very top of the stat board (which he won't be. We just won't get the type of passing yards that Mahomes, Wilson, and Rodgers get) is if he goes 16-0 and simply can't be ignored. And then only if he's very close to the top with most of his stats.

    We can argue all day that the Steelers need Ben to win, but the exact same thing holds true for the other potential MVPs. What do Seattle, Green Bay, and KC look like without their QB? Seattle and Green Bay would probably lose every game. Those QBs are even more valuable to their teams than Ben is to ours. At least we have a defense.

    But if we DO go 16-0 it will get very interesting.
    Agreed. I'd say if he was around 35+TDs and -10ints, and the Steelers finished 14-2 or better then he will be considered. I think most would say they don't believe Ben will actually win the award, but should at least be recognized for what he's achieving. If the Steelers do continue to run the table and he keeps the same pace, then he is undoubtedly a legitimate candidate.

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    awful list


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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Ben has never received one single, solitary vote.

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Chris Simms - LOL.

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    awful list



    The amazing thing is that there are many people here who believe that list is accurate.

    I defy anyone that understands football to say that they would not pick Ben and Brady in a big game against a top defense over almost all of that list.

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    The amazing thing is that there are many people here who believe that list is accurate.

    I defy anyone that understands football to say that they would not pick Ben and Brady in a big game against a top defense over almost all of that list.
    I’d roll with Ben or Brady over a majority of that list. The little things that Ben is doing to get receivers open is pretty crazy right now. Against Cincinnati, he’s toying with the safeties and LBs. There’s a good Merrill Hoge video on Steelers.com that breaks down a couple plays and shows what Ben did with his head fakes and pump fake. He broke ankles with his pump fake and it’s actually pretty funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    He should be.

    Wrote this a few weeks ago about Ben and the Steelers WR's.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by fansince'76; 11-22-2020 at 08:35 AM. Reason: SPAM

  12. #102
    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Another illogical opinion:

    “I think absolutely he has to be an MVP candidate,” said his former coach, Bill Cowher, who watches every Steelers game in his role as a studio analyst for CBS Sports. “You’re talking about the best team in football with the best record, you look at what he’s done after being off a year, his story is remarkable.”

  13. #103
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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by YinzerCrazy View Post
    He should be.

    Wrote this a few weeks ago about Ben and the Steelers WR's.


    What do you think?
    I think it's !

    Hasta la vista, baby...

  14. #104
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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    almost 3 week ago...


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    Senior Member Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute"> pczach's Avatar

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    People will never figure out that quarterbacks that trail in games and lose more games throw for more yards and stats against softer defenses. The also don't seem to get that quarterbacks that play in warm weather, great weather cities, or domes have a huuuuge advantages as quarterbacks. Imagine if a guy like Ben played in a dome his entire career. Not in stadiums where it's difficult just to make a long field goal. Playing in cold temps, high winds, monsoons, snow storms, ice, and the like aren't conducive to great quarterback numbers.

    If Rivers doesn't play in San Diego and now a dome, and played the teams in his division in mostly warm weather, does anyone really believe he would have better stats?

    If Drew Brees played in cold weather and heavy winds his entire career instead of a dome and playing all the teams from his division in warm weather and domes, does anyone think he would have the same numbers?

    There are some legitimately great quarterbacks out there. No doubt. But the fact that this stuff never gets mentioned or factored into some of the nonsense that people talk about when evaluating certain quarterback's careers should be embarrassing to them. They don't know what they don't know. Some of this is just common sense, but I'm always amazed at how little so many people know or understand.

    I'd love to get some of these people on a field and watch them throw in perfect conditions, and then take them somewhere to throw in 30 mile and hour winds and rain and see how they feel about it. It's hard to even describe how much more difficult it is to someone that has never done it. It is literally a night and day difference in difficulty.

    That's also why quarterbacks that win tons of games in bad weather cities and stadiums are much greater than the stats say they are.

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    People will never figure out that quarterbacks that trail in games and lose more games throw for more yards and stats against softer defenses. The also don't seem to get that quarterbacks that play in warm weather, great weather cities, or domes have a huuuuge advantages as quarterbacks. Imagine if a guy like Ben played in a dome his entire career. Not in stadiums where it's difficult just to make a long field goal. Playing in cold temps, high winds, monsoons, snow storms, ice, and the like aren't conducive to great quarterback numbers.

    If Rivers doesn't play in San Diego and now a dome, and played the teams in his division in mostly warm weather, does anyone really believe he would have better stats?

    If Drew Brees played in cold weather and heavy winds his entire career instead of a dome and playing all the teams from his division in warm weather and domes, does anyone think he would have the same numbers?

    There are some legitimately great quarterbacks out there. No doubt. But the fact that this stuff never gets mentioned or factored into some of the nonsense that people talk about when evaluating certain quarterback's careers should be embarrassing to them. They don't know what they don't know. Some of this is just common sense, but I'm always amazed at how little so many people know or understand.

    I'd love to get some of these people on a field and watch them throw in perfect conditions, and then take them somewhere to throw in 30 mile and hour winds and rain and see how they feel about it. It's hard to even describe how much more difficult it is to someone that has never done it. It is literally a night and day difference in difficulty.

    That's also why quarterbacks that win tons of games in bad weather cities and stadiums are much greater than the stats say they are.
    I remember reading a TON of pre-draft scouting reports on the 2004 QB class (or at least Manning, Rivers, and Ben). Opinions varied about all 3. Blah blah blah. BUT...the one thing that was almost universal was that if you played outside in the cold weather and other bad elements...draft Ben R and call it a day.

    We can debate that QB class and Ben's place among other peers, but I do agree that he has proven over and over again...that he is like the postal service. Rain...snow...sleet...or hail...the pass must get through.

  17. #107
    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I remember reading a TON of pre-draft scouting reports on the 2004 QB class (or at least Manning, Rivers, and Ben). Opinions varied about all 3. Blah blah blah. BUT...the one thing that was almost universal was that if you played outside in the cold weather and other bad elements...draft Ben R and call it a day.

    We can debate that QB class and Ben's place among other peers, but I do agree that he has proven over and over again...that he is like the postal service. Rain...snow...sleet...or hail...the pass must get through.
    I'm hoping that Ben goes postal on Thursday!

  18. #108
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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    I'm hoping that Ben goes postal on Thursday!
    Literally LOL...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    If Ben getting the mvp means he also gets to be on the cover of madden....then we don’t want it

  20. #110
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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    I'm hoping that Ben goes postal on Thursday!
    Ben will never stop. He’ll just keep scoring and scoring. He won’t let up, because he’s relentless.

  21. #111
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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Ben can win it this year, but Mahomes has 27 TD's and just 2 INT's so far. That is tough to beat. However is he's the QB on a 16-0 team, with similar numbers, why not?

  22. #112
    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    I'm hearing Big Ben MVP conversation all over the media this week so it's not just the few of us on here who've lost our minds. As with us here, the condition is going 16-0. Seems to be the only way he could overtake Mahomes, and still a long shot.


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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Ben will never stop. He’ll just keep scoring and scoring. He won’t let up, because he’s relentless.

    That’s how the USPS came up with the term, “forever” stamps.

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrancoLambert View Post
    That’s how the USPS came up with the term, “forever” stamps.
    That’s gold!!!

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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    I’ll just stick this right here:



    Fewer than Brees, Brady, Manning, Favre, Elway, Eli, Rivers, etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

  26. #116
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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Just heard it live: “I have Big Ben for MVP right now.” Skip Bayless. Lol

  27. #117
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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Just heard it live: “I have Big Ben for MVP right now.” Skip Bayless. Lol


    So....If Bayless says it....does it disqualify Ben?

  28. #118
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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    So....If Bayless says it....does it disqualify Ben?
    I think it does!

  29. #119
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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Just when you thought there may be a chance Skip Bayless ruins everything! That guys a moron.

  30. #120
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    Re: Big Ben MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    Just when you thought there may be a chance Skip Bayless ruins everything! That guys a moron.
    True! Ben certainly didn’t help his cause. Pic in red zone was awful, other than that a lot of drops. I recorded game and new outcome, thank god. I was fast forwarding the analysis but did hear at one point 6 drops. Seemed like a very vanilla offensive gameplan. I cant even recall any great plays on offense, could be due to fast forwarding. Happy 11-0 and seeing harbaugh whine, bummed about Bud.

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