I can't believe how some in ESPN write stupid things!

[polamalubeast]

Like this one...

Barnwell’s explanation was, “T.J. Watt narrowly slipped out when he allowed a touchdown pass as the primary defender in coverage against Garrett Gilbert (Dallas) on Sunday, although it’s also probably telling that the Steelers actually trust him in the flat against CeeDee Lamb on third down. He could easily win this award with a hot second half.”

https://triblive.com/sports/first-ca...-the-steelers/

The one is to blame for this TD is Keith Butler,not Watt!!!

I mean a pass rusher or a linebacker should never be on a WR!

Myles Garrett,Aaron Donald would not been better in this matchup but to say that Watt lost a few votes or something on this play for the DPOY is a horrible argument!

[teegre]

CeeDee Lamb was taken high in the draft for a reason. Heck, ANY receiver should be able to out-maneuver a LB.

[steel striker]

More Steelers Bias and, like I said Ben could throw for 6000 yards 58TD's someone else would win MVP!! Like Teegre said, any WR should be able to dust a LB. How TJ Watt is not considered one of the best is insulting as well.

[Squeegee Thompson]

And you wonder why ESPN just whacked another 500 jobs ...

[EzraTank]

And you wonder why ESPN just whacked another 500 jobs ...

ESPN is bleeding jobs because they were bought by the most WOKE company in the world, Disney. They stopped caring about sports, got political, and started ramming that shit down people's throats not realizing that people tune into sports to GET AWAY from all that day to day nonsense. Why do you think the NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB numbers plummeted when they all started with this crap. No one cares what woke Lefraud James thinks, he's worth $480 million and cries that America is unfair.

[tube517]

Never take a BSPN writer or on air personality seriously

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

[SteelersNorth]

More Steelers Bias and, like I said Ben could throw for 6000 yards 58TD's someone else would win MVP!! Like Teegre said, any WR should be able to dust a LB. How TJ Watt is not considered one of the best is insulting as well.

They'd give it to Aaron 'Mr Overrated' Rodgers.
And yes he is grossly overrated for a plethora of reasons one of which is how the media just omits how piss poor he played against the Bucs or how they LOST to the 1-5 Vikings. If that were Ben or any other QB you'd be reading about how shitty they were in said games or didn't make the comeback. Rodgers always gets a free pass.
Aside from that IF and flip the script where Rodgers is in Bens shoes injury and all... I can guarantee every sunday on every pregame show all you'd be watching are highlights of how amazing Rodgers is coming back from this injury and how he's a LOCK for MVP.

[Fire Goodell]

i can

[Mojouw]

You guys are all riled up today. But the article, while phrased to get clicks (like everything on the internet) is pretty close to the mark.

You could put half the QBs in the league on the Steelers right now and if they could read a defense quickly, the team would still be around 6-2 to 8-0. Roethlisberger is better than his backups, but he isn't much more than a middle of the road NFL starter right now. Some of that is understandable and some of it is worrisome that this is where he is at and it isn't improving. His deep passing and overall accuracy does not look better week to week. As for the award, Alex Smith was supposed to not walk. Smith might have had to have his leg removed. Now he plays NFL football, even if it is badly. Everyone but talking heads in need of something to fill airtime and pessimistic Steelers fans expected Ben R to return to the field and play.

Watt isn't the defensive player of the year. It is Donald by light years. The only reason we ever consider giving it to anyone else is that everyone gets tired of just seeing Donald win year in and year out. Watt is 2 sacks behind Garrett and Donald. You are not winning DPOY when their is an interior DT and another edge rusher ahead of you on the sack leaderboard. I know Watt is down a game to those guys...so we will see.

[Fire Goodell]

You guys are all riled up today. But the article, while phrased to get clicks (like everything on the internet) is pretty close to the mark.

You could put half the QBs in the league on the Steelers right now and if they could read a defense quickly, the team would still be around 6-2 to 8-0. Roethlisberger is better than his backups, but he isn't much more than a middle of the road NFL starter right now. Some of that is understandable and some of it is worrisome that this is where he is at and it isn't improving. His deep passing and overall accuracy does not look better week to week. As for the award, Alex Smith was supposed to not walk. Smith might have had to have his leg removed. Now he plays NFL football, even if it is badly. Everyone but talking heads in need of something to fill airtime and pessimistic Steelers fans expected Ben R to return to the field and play.

Watt isn't the defensive player of the year. It is Donald by light years. The only reason we ever consider giving it to anyone else is that everyone gets tired of just seeing Donald win year in and year out. Watt is 2 sacks behind Garrett and Donald. You are not winning DPOY when their is an interior DT and another edge rusher ahead of you on the sack leaderboard. I know Watt is down a game to those guys...so we will see.

nfl.com ranked Ben #9 or #10 in the league. I think that's accurate. He's not an elite QB at this point but he's still considered good.

[Dissolv]

Not always a bad thing, ironically. Manning wasn't elite at all in his last Superbowl, but he got the ring.

This week was a bit of a "what the hell am I seeing?" But they have had a very rough schedule lately, and were worn and tired looking. They also got the win, which was by far the most important stat of the day, just like every day.

The game plan was clearly to sell out to stop the run, which isn't bad against a newb QB. But they just couldn't execute even that. We'll see how they are next week with hopefully a little bit of rest under them, and not having to travel. If things start to look better, especially on the two lines, then we might be okay, and it might have been cases of coaches calling stuff that the guys just couldn't execute. If we start being able to get to the QB and stop the run again, you will start seeing more nickel and dime packages, which I believe is what you need to get the LB off of the WR's. But if you can't stop the run, they are going to stay in there and you are going to get those mismatches. That's what selling out to stop the run means.

Prediction: Next week will be another close run, dog fight type game, where Steelers talent and Bungles Bungling manages to barely make it 9-0 Steelers. Some stuff will work better, but Ben will still suck with the deep ball.

[Fire Goodell]

The Bengals won't be an easy game, they were a tough out in almost every loss they had. It will be another nail biter. Without Ben I'd be less optimistic

[DesertSteel]

It's better for the Steelers when the media disrespects them. They play better, with a chip on their shoulders.

[Mojouw]

nfl.com ranked Ben #9 or #10 in the league. I think that's accurate. He's not an elite QB at this point but he's still considered good.

That seems reasonable. By the end of the year he could drift up or down those rankings.

[polamalubeast]

You guys are all riled up today. But the article, while phrased to get clicks (like everything on the internet) is pretty close to the mark.

You could put half the QBs in the league on the Steelers right now and if they could read a defense quickly, the team would still be around 6-2 to 8-0. Roethlisberger is better than his backups, but he isn't much more than a middle of the road NFL starter right now. Some of that is understandable and some of it is worrisome that this is where he is at and it isn't improving. His deep passing and overall accuracy does not look better week to week. As for the award, Alex Smith was supposed to not walk. Smith might have had to have his leg removed. Now he plays NFL football, even if it is badly. Everyone but talking heads in need of something to fill airtime and pessimistic Steelers fans expected Ben R to return to the field and play.

Watt isn't the defensive player of the year. It is Donald by light years. The only reason we ever consider giving it to anyone else is that everyone gets tired of just seeing Donald win year in and year out. Watt is 2 sacks behind Garrett and Donald. You are not winning DPOY when their is an interior DT and another edge rusher ahead of you on the sack leaderboard. I know Watt is down a game to those guys...so we will see.

I agree that Donald is the DPOY but Watt deserve to be second...

[Mojouw]

I agree that Donald is the DPOY but Watt deserve to be second...

Fine. But the overall point still holds. The article wasn't wrong. We can quibble all we want with that or that detail(s) we consider more relevant because we obsess over every last detail of the Steelers to a degree no national writer/talking head can. Barnwell is a pretty smart, informed, and reasonable guy. Not prone to outrageous or unreasonable statements.

There is nothing really all that hard to swallow that Watt is not currently the DPOY and that right now Ben R is an average QB. According to some of the stats he is literally defining the middle point of the rankings.

[polamalubeast]

Fine. But the overall point still holds. The article wasn't wrong. We can quibble all we want with that or that detail(s) we consider more relevant because we obsess over every last detail of the Steelers to a degree no national writer/talking head can. Barnwell is a pretty smart, informed, and reasonable guy. Not prone to outrageous or unreasonable statements.

There is nothing really all that hard to swallow that Watt is not currently the DPOY and that right now Ben R is an average QB. According to some of the stats he is literally defining the middle point of the rankings.

My problem he was talking about the play that Watt gave up a TD against a receiver when there was not good reason that Butler has put Watt in this impossible position...I do not understand why this is one of his arguments....Watt is a pass rusher,not a corner.

We can have better argument to put Garrett and Donald ahead of Watt than this arguments.

[Craic]

My problem he was talking about the play that Watt gave up a TD against a receiver when there was not good reason that Butler has put Watt in this impossible position...I do not understand why this is one of his arguments....Watt is a pass rusher,not a corner.

We can have better argument to put Garrett and Donald ahead of Watt than this arguments.

Except, there is. The Cowboys, from what I heard, were specifically running an offense meant to pull off the OLBs and make them play coverage. I have a feeling that no matter what sub package they ran in there, the Cowboys were going to counter with something that would take whoever they thought Watt's assignment was, and run him as a WR (or line up so that Watt's assignment was a WR) so that Watt must play DB rather than LB. It's a very good scheme against a 3-4 to stop a talented OLB.

Don't forget, Watt was playing a zone defense. The only way to counter that is to run a man-on-man defense, but then you simply run out three WRs, and now you're left with only one safety up top. Run an empty backfield, and now you're left with one of the LBs having to plan man against a WR. It's schemes and counterschemes. We want Watt rushing as much as possible, but in today's league you simply cannot have a backer that is only a rusher. He has to be able to play zone and at least be okay at it.

[Mojouw]

Except, there is. The Cowboys, from what I heard, were specifically running an offense meant to pull off the OLBs and make them play coverage. I have a feeling that no matter what sub package they ran in there, the Cowboys were going to counter with something that would take whoever they thought Watt's assignment was, and run him as a WR (or line up so that Watt's assignment was a WR) so that Watt must play DB rather than LB. It's a very good scheme against a 3-4 to stop a talented OLB.

Don't forget, Watt was playing a zone defense. The only way to counter that is to run a man-on-man defense, but then you simply run out three WRs, and now you're left with only one safety up top. Run an empty backfield, and now you're left with one of the LBs having to plan man against a WR. It's schemes and counterschemes. We want Watt rushing as much as possible, but in today's league you simply cannot have a backer that is only a rusher. He has to be able to play zone and at least be okay at it.

Great points. There were a few articles up around the internet this morning talking about just this. Steelers ran base against Cowboys 3 WR sets like 50-60% of the time or something unusual like that. If you run base against 3 WR sets, you have to drop at least one LB into zone coverage. I would rather that LB be Watt than anyone else currently on the roster.

Basically, the Steelers went into Sunday's game believing that no matter what the Cowboys showed them pre-snap with formations, personnel packages, or motion that they were going to run the ball. The Cowboys then crossed them up and passed the ball.

At some point, the Steelers are going to have to have an answer for multi receiver sets and their base defense. Or it will never see the field again this season. Teams will just force them to play sub packages.

[polamalubeast]

Except, there is. The Cowboys, from what I heard, were specifically running an offense meant to pull off the OLBs and make them play coverage. I have a feeling that no matter what sub package they ran in there, the Cowboys were going to counter with something that would take whoever they thought Watt's assignment was, and run him as a WR (or line up so that Watt's assignment was a WR) so that Watt must play DB rather than LB. It's a very good scheme against a 3-4 to stop a talented OLB.

Don't forget, Watt was playing a zone defense. The only way to counter that is to run a man-on-man defense, but then you simply run out three WRs, and now you're left with only one safety up top. Run an empty backfield, and now you're left with one of the LBs having to plan man against a WR. It's schemes and counterschemes. We want Watt rushing as much as possible, but in today's league you simply cannot have a backer that is only a rusher. He has to be able to play zone and at least be okay at it.

On this play, it was on a 3rd down and 7, no excuse to not have the right personal... You have to remove an ILB or a DL like Huggs and put a CB like Sutton or even Layne if you need to match the lineup from the other team.Too often we see an LB like Williams, Dupree or Watt against a WR, that should never happen if you have the right personal on the field, but for some reason Butler puts our players in an impossible situation.

I don't want to start my anti-Butler rant again but it's a big challenge when I see thing like that.

- - - Updated - - -

Great points. There were a few articles up around the internet this morning talking about just this. Steelers ran base against Cowboys 3 WR sets like 50-60% of the time or something unusual like that. If you run base against 3 WR sets, you have to drop at least one LB into zone coverage. I would rather that LB be Watt than anyone else currently on the roster.

Basically, the Steelers went into Sunday's game believing that no matter what the Cowboys showed them pre-snap with formations, personnel packages, or motion that they were going to run the ball. The Cowboys then crossed them up and passed the ball.

At some point, the Steelers are going to have to have an answer for multi receiver sets and their base defense. Or it will never see the field again this season. Teams will just force them to play sub packages.

Not hard...Just to put Sutton,Hilton if he comes back healthy and takes a LB or a DL off the field, especially in the passing situation ... Layne is also an option .... Much better chance of being good in passing down if our corners are against the wide receiver than our LBs .... And in addition when Watt or Dupree are in coverage, the steelers pass rush are less dangerous

[pczach]

Fine. But the overall point still holds. The article wasn't wrong. We can quibble all we want with that or that detail(s) we consider more relevant because we obsess over every last detail of the Steelers to a degree no national writer/talking head can. Barnwell is a pretty smart, informed, and reasonable guy. Not prone to outrageous or unreasonable statements.

There is nothing really all that hard to swallow that Watt is not currently the DPOY and that right now Ben R is an average QB. According to some of the stats he is literally defining the middle point of the rankings.

Stats are just numbers. They don't always tell the real story of what is actually happening.

Every single time this team needed a jump start, or needed a drive, or needed a score, Big Ben put the team on his shoulders and got it done. He does it in big moments and in clutch, pressure situations. The team doesn't ask him to do it all the time. He does his thing when he's really needed, and he has been money.

Ask yourself how many middle of the road quarterbacks that describes.

How many do you come up with?

Exactly.....he's not a middle of the road quarterback.

[polamalubeast]

You are not a average QB when your team is one of the best in the league in 3rd down.The thing I would like Ben to do more often is to try more pass attempts in the mid-range (10 to 15 yards) like the JuJu's TD against Dallas but outside of that Ben has been solid and great in the 3rd down, which is crucial for a QB.Also only 4 interceptions this year and 3 of his interceptions were in the same game....The other 7 game,only 1 interception.The fact that he doesn't need to feed a big ego at the WR position helps a lot to have a lower number of interceptions.

[Mojouw]

Stats are just numbers. They don't always tell the real story of what is actually happening.

Every single time this team needed a jump start, or needed a drive, or needed a score, Big Ben put the team on his shoulders and got it done. He does it in big moments and in clutch, pressure situations. The team doesn't ask him to do it all the time. He does his thing when he's really needed, and he has been money.

Ask yourself how many middle of the road quarterbacks that describes.

How many do you come up with?

Exactly.....he's not a middle of the road quarterback.

I think Matt Stafford would flourish in the Steelers 2020 offense. So would Matt Ryan, Teddy Bridgewater, and maybe Wentz if he could get his brain in gear. Basically, any QB that can be accurate and decisive. There are not all that many, but I do not see that Ben is doing a whole lot that elevates the play of the offense to some level that others couldn't achieve. Like he isn't bad and shouldn't be shuffled out the door or anything. He can play like this for infinity more years for all I care. But he is no longer in that tier of guys that can just "make it work" no matter what.

- - - Updated - - -

On this play, it was on a 3rd down and 7, no excuse to not have the right personal... You have to remove an ILB or a DL like Huggs and put a CB like Sutton or even Layne if you need to match the lineup from the other team.Too often we see an LB like Williams, Dupree or Watt against a WR, that should never happen if you have the right personal on the field, but for some reason Butler puts our players in an impossible situation.

I don't want to start my anti-Butler rant again but it's a big challenge when I see thing like that.

- - - Updated - - -



Not hard...Just to put Sutton,Hilton if he comes back healthy and takes a LB or a DL off the field, especially in the passing situation ... Layne is also an option .... Much better chance of being good in passing down if our corners are against the wide receiver than our LBs .... And in addition when Watt or Dupree are in coverage, the steelers pass rush are less dangerous

It is a chess match. You take one of your "big" people off the field and the Cowboys run the ball. That is what they had been doing in the previous several weeks. For whatever, the reason the Steelers felt that getting their pass defenders on the field would expose them to running plays. An interesting thing to look at would be those longer runs by Pollard. Was that against pass defense or run defense? Because if it was against the nickel, you can see why the Steelers didn't want to get into it.

[polamalubeast]

I think Matt Stafford would flourish in the Steelers 2020 offense. So would Matt Ryan, Teddy Bridgewater, and maybe Wentz if he could get his brain in gear. Basically, any QB that can be accurate and decisive. There are not all that many, but I do not see that Ben is doing a whole lot that elevates the play of the offense to some level that others couldn't achieve. Like he isn't bad and shouldn't be shuffled out the door or anything. He can play like this for infinity more years for all I care. But he is no longer in that tier of guys that can just "make it work" no matter what.

- - - Updated - - -



It is a chess match. You take one of your "big" people off the field and the Cowboys run the ball. That is what they had been doing in the previous several weeks. For whatever, the reason the Steelers felt that getting their pass defenders on the field would expose them to running plays. An interesting thing to look at would be those longer runs by Pollard. Was that against pass defense or run defense? Because if it was against the nickel, you can see why the Steelers didn't want to get into it.

The pass defense is more important than the run defense in the current NFL ... It's important to contain the run, but not at all costs ... Of course, when you play against the Ravens, it's a different thing , but for the most part you should never be too vulnerable against the pass ... I also don't think that if you put 5 DB (2 S and 3 CB) against the lineup of 3 WR of the other team that you are going to be bad against the run .... If the team is bad against the run, even with the right personal, it is the players who are responsible .... But if the coaches do not match the lineups of the other teams, it's much more frustrating since it is almost certain that the opposing team will have 7-10 yards before the snap.

[Mojouw]

The pass defense is more important than the run defense in the current NFL ... It's important to contain the run, but not at all costs ... Of course, when you play against the Ravens, it's a different thing , but for the most part you should never be too vulnerable against the pass ... I also don't think that if you put 5 DB (2 S and 3 CB) against the lineup of 3 WR of the other team that you are going to be bad against the run .... If the team is bad against the run, even with the right personal, it is the players who are responsible .... But if the coaches do not match the lineups of the other teams, it's much more frustrating since it is almost certain that the opposing team will have 7-10 yards before the snap.

Again, the opposite may also be true. Remember there were several "passing downs" (2nd and long as well as 3rd and long) that Pollard ripped off pretty big runs. What defense was on the field then? Maybe it was 3 CBs and the Cowboys were also guaranteed to have 7-10 yards before the snap.

The other guys get paid to coach, gameplan, and play too. On Sunday, the Cowboys had a better gameplan for 3 quarters. Then, they didn't.

[teegre]

I get how TJ might not be the front-runner for DPOY. What I don’t get is pointing out a play where 99.9% of the LBs in NFL history would have given up that TD.

[polamalubeast]

I get how TJ might not be the front-runner for DPOY. What I don’t get is pointing out a play where 99.9% of the LBs in NFL history would have given up that TD.

It was my point!

[Mojouw]

I get how TJ might not be the front-runner for DPOY. What I don’t get is pointing out a play where 99.9% of the LBs in NFL history would have given up that TD.

It was my point!

Sure. But unless someone actually pays for ESPN+ all we have is a pull quote from a Steelers writer designed to rile Steelers fans up. Interestingly, I have heard the same dude talk about midseason awards on podcasts and other outlets...TJ Watt in coverage is not his main point...It is just something designed to generate controversy and get the article shared around.

[Hawkman]

......and, if people will recall, ( and I know it was a short field), but if an OLB didn’t drop into coverage, we would not have won the SB against the Cardinals.

[HollywoodSteel]

......and, if people will recall, ( and I know it was a short field), but if an OLB didn’t drop into coverage, we would not have won the SB against the Cardinals.

But that was not his designed assignment. It wasn’t his responsibility to drop into coverage. Harrison had an instinct and went with it, which was great. It was also on a much shorter field. “Dropping back” in Harrison’s case wasn’t what TJ had to do with Lamb. Harrison just basically stopped his pass rush and took one step back into the path of a short pass.

But all that aside, of course LBers are occasionally gonna have to cover someone, but on third and seven, you really shouldn’t be in a scheme that puts your best pass rusher on a WR like Ceedee Lamb.