Jones is a 4-3 ILB. He would play ILB in a 3-4.Originally Posted by EzraTank
He is a 6'1" version of Devin Bush. Sideline to sideline tackler with 4.4 speed. He could replace Bush the rest of this season and serve as security for Bush until he recovers from the ACL injury. IF this is actually happening or just a rumor.
You can use spotrac for every NFL team and player to find all the cap details one could ever want.
For VW: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsbur...illiams-12488/
If they release or trade him in 2021, they take on $3 million and change in dead cap but save $4 million against the 2021 cap. So long story short; they still would need to find at least $4 million dollars in 2021 cap money to pay Deion Jones even if they released VW.
Deion Jones playing next to a healthy Devin Bush would be hilariously fun to watch. So would Dupree continuing to bookend Watt. Unless the Steelers know something about the 2021 salary cap that we don't; neither has a snowball's chance in hell of happening.
Okay I want him now, bye Sutton.
If the Steelers do not see Sutton as anything more than a sub-package CB (even if that is a really good one) and you can trade that guy for a LB with Jones' skillset, you do it every time. In fact, I would be offering to help drive Sutton to the airport if I was the Steelers.
However, Sutton is a lot to give up if you do not have a concrete plan for keeping Jones on the roster past 2020. Why? Two reasons:
1. No one is going to have a great deal of cap space in 2021. So Sutton may not see the $$$ on the open market he usually would. Basically I think the Steelers can sign him or Hilton for less than many have previously thought. Not both, but one for like a one year $3 million dollar deal or something. Sutton plays nickelback on presumably a really good 2021 defense and hits the 2022 market with increased reputation and when teams will have actually cap dollars to spend.
2. Say that Sutton DOES leave. And so does Hilton. The Steelers are certainly not signing anyone of note in 2021. They will be cutting guys to get cap compliant. So maybe Sutton is part of getting a 2022 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick. But not if you trade him. As nice as Deion Jones is. I might rather have an extra 2022 draft pick (even in the 4-6 round) that turns into a cost controlled player for 4 years than 10+ games of Deion Jones in 2020. Then I have to cut him in 2022.
HOWEVER...all that being said. You could start getting SUPER galaxy brain with all this. Sutton for Jones in 2020. Sutton doesn't help in comp picks or anything. BUT...But...Jones does. So you cut Jones due to the cap after this season. He is almost certain to get a big ass deal somewhere. Or at least more certain than Sutton. Jones almost certainly equals a 3rd round comp. pick.
The steelers have no intention to trade Sutton according to Kaboly
Good, if we can pick up a guy like Williamson for a late pick I'd rather do that. But dreaming of our 2021 starting linebackers being Watt, Bush, Jones, and Dupree ... yummy.
So is the Deion Jones trade squashed? Haven't heard much about it, but that would be huge if we could land him.
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I would think the Steelers would have to give up someone with a higher contract to afford this trade. Sutton doesn't fit the bill. Joe Haden comes to mind, but I don't see why the Falcons would want an aging CB unless we threw in a 1st or 2nd rounder.
Y'all need to reign yourselves in a bit. There is no way aside from the NFL setting the 2021 salary cap at $200+ million dollars that the Pittsburgh Steelers can add 2021 salary, let alone sign a big $$$ deal like Dupree.
Almost always NFL trades have very little to do with best roster fits or best available player(s) but to do with $$$. The cash just doesn't line up for anyone they acquire being on the roster in 2021.
IF the Steelers trade for a LB; it will be a rental for the remainder of the 2020 season.
Why are you so sure they won't set the cap at 200,000,000? I'm going to guess there are several teams with a financial status similar to the Steelers. I wouldn't rule the NFL increasing the cap limit out.There's also a lot of guys on their last season of their contracts that will free up a lot of space. Nearly 25 mil saved if they part ways with AV, Bud, JuJu, and Alu Alu. They could also get some restructured contracts in there to get to possibly 30 mil. That's not a terrible number to be at. If they were all in this season, they could make it work and go after Deion Jones is what I'm saying.
Playing the numbers game...what would make the most sense to me is Haden.
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Whew! Someone got it!
The NFL owners have said that they are barely okay with the $175 million dollar cap. There has been zero indication that they are really into increasing that. For the Steelers to not need to cut players in 2021, back of the envelope math says you would need 200-205 million cap. Then maybe up from there if you want to keep fancy things like Dupree and Deion Jones.
It is with NOT counting all the guys you listed that the Steelers are STILL 20 some million over the $175 million dollar cap floor for 2021. So those guys don't free up any 2021 money. Here is one of the many Steelers Depot articles laying out the math of it all: https://steelersdepot.com/2020/07/po...r-on-steelers/
"..the Steelers are essentially $21.5 million over a $175 million cap number in 2021..."
"Even if the 2021 salary cap number were to come in flat [same as this season] at $198.2 million, you can probably already forget about the team being able to re-sign players such as outside linebacker Bud Dupree, wide receiver JuJu Smith-Schuster, running back James Conner, tackle Alejandro Villanueva, guard Matt Feiler, cornerback Mike Hilton and cornerback Cameron Sutton, all of whom are currently scheduled to be unrestricted free agents in March. Even tackle Zach Banner might be too rich for the Steelers blood come next March."
"...the Steelers could sign Roethlisberger to another contract extension next February to help with the salary cap, but even if they do, the max room that could be created is $14.34 million and that’s only via a faux four-year extension with the quarterback not taking any new money...a more realistic extension that would allow for Roethlisberger to play through at least the 2023 season, would likely result in just $8-10 million or so in 2021 salary cap space being created."
Long story short. Working with the $175 million dollar number, the Steelers are looking at a minimum of $11 million to just get cap compliant for 2021 (that counts a Ben R extension). Then for every guy you sign, you have to come up with the cap space elsewhere. It can be done. They always do. But taking on serious salary amounts in 2021 is likely not in the cards. Additionally there is almost zero chance that Bud Dupree is on the 2021 Steelers roster barring serious injury.
As I have posted elsewhere, I suspect that AV, Feiler, Hilton, McDonald, Haden, VW, Dupree, and Conner are NOT on the roster next season.
That definitely clears it up. I was taking a shot in the wind there. My salary cap knowledge all comes from Madden, believe it or not. Imo, Ben 100% has to restructure.
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I do find it strange Teegre posted that Deion Jones started following the Steelers. The same thing happened with Lev Bell and the Chiefs a couple weeks ago and shortly after it was announced that he was traded. I don't buy too much into social media, but it is definitely strange.
Agreed!! I'd love that deal. figure 2021 out in 2021 I guess.
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Just bring Kirkland out of retirement.
The CAP stuff should be simple. If they roll the CAP back 10% then every player salary and subsequent CAP hit should be automatically rolled back 10%.
Summation: Teegre really likes Sutton.Guilty as charged.
(For those not around back then, coming out of that draft, I felt Sutton was our biggest steal.)
UPDATE:
Several other Steelers players started posting the “peace sign” emoji on their Twitter and IG feeds. Their cohorts then replied with comments essentially saying “Stop clowning” (indicating that everyone is reacting to a non-story).
I gotta say: it was a fun few hours.
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Wait, so you're saying the Steelers trolled us fans? That's hilarious.
(For those not around back then, coming out of that draft, I felt Sutton was our biggest steal.)
UPDATE:
Several other Steelers players started posting the “peace sign” emoji on their Twitter and IG feeds. Their cohorts then replied with comments essentially saying “Stop clowning” (indicating that everyone is reacting to a non-story).
I gotta say: it was a fun few hours.
In what world does ANYONE agree to that? I mean look at the last several CBA negotiations. Players want way more of the revenue pie and owners are insistent on giving far far less.
There are two totally antithetical approaches. Ownership only cares about maximizing their profits. If that means they play with lesser players or a lower quality on field product, the majority of owners don't give a crap. Because what are the fans going to do -- watch the other trash football leagues? We, the fans, have demonstrated that we aren't going to do that! Players just want to get paid the most amount possible every year because they (rightly?) feel that with the high injury risk and the non guaranteed nature of most NFL contracts that they are one play away from never seeing another dime.
For this season, the original proposal by the owners was a 8-10% cap rollback with no mechanism to allow teams to get in compliance. That was a 15-20 million reduction in salary cap that the owners were just fine with. That would've meant almost every team in the league would have been forced to cut critical players in order to get compliant. Then have a shortened camp and no preseason to figure out how to make the new roster work. In the Steelers case that would have likely meant no Vance McDonald/Eric Ebron (pick one) and several other depth guys. Likely no D. Watt signing. Bottom line is that the original ownership proposal was made solely to protect their bottom line and with no regard to the impact on the on field product. The 2021+ salary cap floor compromise is more of the same, it just attempts to give teams and players a fighting chance to plan for it.
A more realistic approach would be a series of amnesty provisions:
1. Each team can designate a "face of the franchise" and only have so much percent of the contract count towards the cap. Make the percentage the difference in what the 2021 cap is and what it would have been with normal revenues. So in the Steelers case, they wiggle out from Ben R's. massive contract hit.
2. Be able to designate one player who just doesn't count. Either in a release or honoring the contract. Set a cap on how much this can be used for. Say like $ 8million or something. I don't know their are enough math nerds out there that could figure it out. Call it a "Vet Exception". This saves guys like VW job's across the league.
3. Change the formula for franchise tag calculation. Take the average of the top 5 salaries like normal and then cut equal to the cap decrease. So if normally a $15 million franchise tag for OLB is 8% of total salary cap; then the 2021 would be whatever needs to bring the new # in line with that same 8% of total salary cap.
Smarter people than me can figure out the specifics and see if these are workable. What it would do is split NFL ownership into two camps. Those that are willing to spend money to win and put the best product on the field. And those that are just in this to make $$$.
I think the NHL did this. Their salary cap went down and players took a pay cut.
Most likely. But the NHL and the players have a fairly good and high functioning relationship. The NFL and the NFLPA do not.
Since Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft, and other new guard owners have seized control of the NFL from old guard owners like the Rooney, Mara, and Hunt families; the NFL has consistently sought to maximize ownership profits at the expense of player salaries, benefits, and any other thing they can think of. Jones has the ear of the majority of owners because his ideas of how to increase NFL revenues and team revenues have been highly successful. He led the charge to to ridiculous revenues that teams are seeing currently. The trade-off has become that NFL bargaining is a one sided affair where ownership kicks the players asses up between their ears and the players get more and more bitter and unwilling to compromise. From what I can see it is the WORST ownership-player relationship in professional sports. Combine that with a Commissioner whose main selling point is that he is a puppet for the most powerful block of owners and you have a pretty poor situation for compromise and strategic partnership.
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Well, IF we win a Super Bowl this year, I could see several older players taking contract restructures to stay for a run at a second and possible keep the team together.
There was no salary cap in the NHL back in 2004. Spending got out of control, teams losing money so the Owners pushed for a cap, the players at one point offered 24% reduction in salary if they could avoid a Salary Cap. It was rejected. Eventually there was a Salary Cap established in 2005 of $39million and players salaries were adjusted to get under that amount. It has increased every year (except for a lockout year) This past season it was $81.5 million.
https://puckpedia.com/teams
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That is all true. But, they are only paid around 90 percent of their total earnings for the year (currently). The NHL holds part of that in an escrow account. Once the season is over the NHL adds up all the money it made in Hockey Related Revenue, then splits it 50/50 with the players. The fifty percent that is for the players is split evenly between each team. That sets the overall salary cap for the team (the cap up to then was an estimate), and the players then get paid the rest of their out of that. Of course, there's more to it. Here's a good article on the topic.
https://hockeyanswered.com/what-is-escrow-in-the-nhl/
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Watching Deion Jones playing within the Falcons defense vs the Panthers.
Nothing so far indicates worthy of trading away a starter quality slot CB. I see the speed sideline to sideline. I also see #45 getting swallowed up in the flow, unable to avoid OL, and getting blocked out of plays by WRs. Granted this Falcons defensive unit is terrible but do we really want to trade away Cam Sutton for a backup ILB on our current defense?
I don’t think anyone, including owners or the nfl have any clue how the cap is going to work in the 2021 season. Like no idea at all.
Interesting, while I realize stadium revenues will be greatly reduced, advertising revenues will not. People are starved for entertainment....no theaters, big public venues aren’t open. Advertisers are flocking to tv, because everyone has one. Sundays from 1:00-11:00 fans are there......(can you tell I’m in the ad business). While I don’t think there will be any bump up in the cap, I also don’t think there will be much, if any reduction. So far, there has been a great product,...with a marginal amount of issues, and we are almost half way through the regular season.
Ticket revenues are predicted to be down $4 billion. That's not coming out of the owners pockets.
I would love to see those numbers.
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I think that is based on every stadium being filled on every Sunday....or whatever day.
After watching tonight's game I would trade Sutton in a second for Deion Jones.
No one can see the numbers because the NFL doesn't release them.
And yes, the 4 billion is from stadiums.
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