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Thread: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

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    Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight


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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Including a 3rd and 17 before half that if they don't allow the conversion gives Ben and the offense a chance for points before half and then getting the ball again after the half.

    Istina

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Always room to improve.

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    So we can c9mp,Ian but what happened since last season. The parts are about the same, is it age, declining skills? Only Haden really has any age to show. So what’s the problem, because this defense is not the same one help Duck win games
    Last year


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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    So we can c9mp,Ian but what happened since last season. The parts are about the same, is it age, declining skills? Only Haden really has any age to show. So what’s the problem, because this defense is not the same one help Duck win games
    Last year


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    I expect they are going to be better as the season goes on ... they need some adjustment too.They are great for the most part in the first and second down but the 3rd down is awful.

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    What are you guys talking about? They took away Ertz. They held the run game to 94 yards including that early 74 yard TD run. Somebody had to be in 1on1 coverage and the Eagles won some of those battles. The Steelers defense also got 5 sacks and 2 INTs. We took away what they do best and let them try to win with what was left. The result was a 9pt win even with the Ebron fumble and 86 yards in penalties. The Eagles converted on 10of14 3rd downs, the Steelers converted on 11of15, pretty even there.

    I'm feeling very positive moving forward considering this offense lost DeCastro and DJ during the game. Claypool was unstoppable for the Eagles and Ben completed 27of34 with 3TDs and zero INTs. 38 points!!!

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    What are you guys talking about? They took away Ertz. They held the run game to 94 yards including that early 74 yard TD run. Somebody had to be in 1on1 coverage and the Eagles won some of those battles. The Steelers defense also got 5 sacks and 2 INTs. We took away what they do best and let them try to win with what was left. The result was a 9pt win even with the Ebron fumble and 86 yards in penalties. The Eagles converted on 10of14 3rd downs, the Steelers converted on 11of15, pretty even there.

    I'm feeling very positive moving forward considering this offense lost DeCastro and DJ during the game. Claypool was unstoppable for the Eagles and Ben completed 27of34 with 3TDs and zero INTs. 38 points!!!
    Thanks for clarifying! I thought we lost.

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    What are you guys talking about? They took away Ertz. They held the run game to 94 yards including that early 74 yard TD run. Somebody had to be in 1on1 coverage and the Eagles won some of those battles. The Steelers defense also got 5 sacks and 2 INTs. We took away what they do best and let them try to win with what was left. The result was a 9pt win even with the Ebron fumble and 86 yards in penalties. The Eagles converted on 10of14 3rd downs, the Steelers converted on 11of15, pretty even there.

    I'm feeling very positive moving forward considering this offense lost DeCastro and DJ during the game. Claypool was unstoppable for the Eagles and Ben completed 27of34 with 3TDs and zero INTs. 38 points!!!
    Offense was great...Run defense was great outside of one run.The defense were good for the first and second down.But the 3rd down defense need to be much better!

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Offense was great...Run defense was great outside of one run.The defense were good for the first and second down.But the 3rd down defense need to be much better!
    There will always be room for improvement. Answer this though, how did the Eagles convert 11 straight 3rd downs(thread title) when they converted 10of14 total? Again, what are you guys talking about?
    Here: https://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401220175

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    This defense was trash on third down all day. No one could be watching that game thinking oh they'll stop them here.

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    They better fix those woes this week, a certain division rival they are facing next week appears to have figured out how to play NFL football this year and has 2 pro bowl WRs

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    They better fix those woes this week, a certain division rival they are facing next week appears to have figured out how to play NFL football this year and has 2 pro bowl WRs
    So do we.

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    There will always be room for improvement. Answer this though, how did the Eagles convert 11 straight 3rd downs(thread title) when they converted 10of14 total? Again, what are you guys talking about?
    Here: https://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401220175
    Maybe it included a DPI that doesn't count on this stats, but the result is the same

    But regardless, 10 or 11 is not good and overall, the steelers were not good in 3rd down in defense after 4 games ... 19th before this game .... This is the most important stats in defense

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Good news was that the Steelers converted a shit load of third downs as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Maybe it included a DPI that doesn't count on this stats, but the result is the same

    But regardless, 10 or 11 is not good and overall, the steelers were not good in 3rd down in defense after 4 games ... 19th before this game .... This is the most important stats in defense

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    So true, they didnt do a good job of getting off the field on 3rd downs and against Philly, they should have started bracketing Fulgham when he was getting hot. The 2nd best receiver for the Eagles was Greg Ward with 4 receptions.

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Maybe it included a DPI that doesn't count on this stats, but the result is the same

    But regardless, 10 or 11 is not good and overall, the steelers were not good in 3rd down in defense after 4 games ... 19th before this game .... This is the most important stats in defense
    I don’t think it’s the most important stat in defense. It is perhaps the most fixable stat in defense.

    If teams are just driving and scoring on you without needing to pick up third down conversions, that’s way worse. And our defense does tend stop teams at the ends of games.

    I’m not saying it’s nothing. It’s definitely something that needs to improve, but for the most part it’s a result of offenses just really making great calls and executing at the right time. The games seems way worse in real time then they are when you go back and look at it in retrospect.

    Wentz was just great on 3rd Downs and his receivers made big time plays. They found the right matchups and hit on them.

    There were also a few drives extended by bad calls and missed holding calls, but whatever. We have to play well enough not to let bad calls affect the outcome. And so far we have.

    I think Born2Steel made some excellent points about our game plan and what it achieved. We forced them to make plays with their “no name” receivers... and it turns out those guys can totally play football. It was like a perfect storm of them making the exact calls and plays they needed to make at the right times... and we still won by 9 points.

    This might sound weird, but ultimately I think the fact that the Ravens do what we’d all like to see our team do - they blow lesser teams away and get all the bounces and have everything go exactly according to plan at all times and face no stressful situations - actually is worse for them in the long run. Because inevitably NOT everything is gonna go perfectly and it’ll probably happen against good teams, ESPECIALLY in the playoffs. And we see how the Ravens handle things when they face adversity.

    Our guys face heart attack games every week. Bad calls. Bad luck. Everything that can go wrong going wrong... we have faced it all and won in all those situations. Our guys will be far more battle tested when it matters most.

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    I don’t think it’s the most important stat in defense. It is perhaps the most fixable stat in defense.

    If teams are just driving and scoring on you without needing to pick up third down conversions, that’s way worse. And our defense does tend stop teams at the ends of games.

    I’m not saying it’s nothing. It’s definitely something that needs to improve, but for the most part it’s a result of offenses just really making great calls and executing at the right time. The games seems way worse in real time then they are when you go back and look at it in retrospect.

    Wentz was just great on 3rd Downs and his receivers made big time plays. They found the right matchups and hit on them.

    There were also a few drives extended by bad calls and missed holding calls, but whatever. We have to play well enough not to let bad calls affect the outcome. And so far we have.

    I think Born2Steel made some excellent points about our game plan and what it achieved. We forced them to make plays with their “no name” receivers... and it turns out those guys can totally play football. It was like a perfect storm of them making the exact calls and plays they needed to make at the right times... and we still won by 9 points.

    This might sound weird, but ultimately I think the fact that the Ravens do what we’d all like to see our team do - they blow lesser teams away and get all the bounces and have everything go exactly according to plan at all times and face no stressful situations - actually is worse for them in the long run. Because inevitably NOT everything is gonna go perfectly and it’ll probably happen against good teams, ESPECIALLY in the playoffs. And we see how the Ravens handle things when they face adversity.

    Our guys face heart attack games every week. Bad calls. Bad luck. Everything that can go wrong going wrong... we have faced it all and won in all those situations. Our guys will be far more battle tested when it matters most.
    You are right when you said this is not the most important stats,but this is still one of the 3-4 most important stats on defense.They are in the bottom 5 in 3rd down defense right now.They are great for the most part in the first and second down but the 3rd down defense,it's so frustrating right now!

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Never was a fan of Butler or Lebeau. It is apparent they will never get rid of Butler, so could they get a defensive assistant for strictly 3rd down play calling?

    I haven't expected the Steelers to consistently stop a 3rd and long for over 10 years. I automatically assume the offense will convert those situations.

    His 'prevent' defense is atrocious as well.

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    I'm wondering if it's because the playcalling on defense is too aggressive on 3rd down, leaving the secondary on islands? The Raiders constantly dropped 8 into coverage and pretty much contained Mahomes. I'm always seeing us rush 5. We get to the passer but that leaves the secondary vulnerable.

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    I'm wondering if it's because the playcalling on defense is too aggressive on 3rd down, leaving the secondary on islands? The Raiders constantly dropped 8 into coverage and pretty much contained Mahomes. I'm always seeing us rush 5. We get to the passer but that leaves the secondary vulnerable.
    I wonder what the plan is when the Steelers face a "good" passing offense? In the first 4 games they have played they have gone up against poor (on paper) passing attacks that were operating behind bad offensive lines. The Titans would have presented something different, but we didn't see that game. The Browns are the first "test" where there is 2020 game film of their passing attack punishing defenses for mistakes and being overly aggressive.

    There has been some, but not a great deal of "dime" looks (at least based on Cam Sutton's snap % each game). We have yet to see a "3 safety package" - you know that thing that everyone associated with the team talks about every off-season and then never runs. VW has been on the field on seemingly a surprising number of 3rd down plays. No UG3 or Marcus Allen, etc.

    What I am rambling on about is that I feel like all the Steelers have rolled out so far is their "pressure" based pass defense. The Eagles, surprisingly, were the first team that really made them pay for it. Curious to see what they do against the Browns and other teams that are not fronted by a bad o-line and an inexperienced (or whatever is up with Wentz) QB...

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    I feel like they are trying to disguise and hide Fitzpatrick. Maybe not...but they seem to be using him different than they did last season. As for Ertz, he was held in a lot to help against the pass rush...I think held in much more than he’s used to.

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    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Offense was great...Run defense was great outside of one run.The defense were good for the first and second down.But the 3rd down defense need to be much better!
    The Philly's WR was clearly holding Edmunds on that run as well it should have been called back. It wasn't a ticky-tacky hold either you could see Edmunds jersey getting pulled back as Sanders ran by.

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra Tank View Post
    The Philly's WR was clearly holding Edmunds on that run as well it should have been called back. It wasn't a ticky-tacky hold either you could see Edmunds jersey getting pulled back as Sanders ran by.
    The officiating as a whole that game was pretty tuurrrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    The officiating as a whole that game was pretty tuurrrible.
    Agreed, but on the really big plays you expect just a "little" better. That and the 5th TD for Claypool was sad. But we did benefit from some really bad DPI calls. But like people say, you need to be good enough to NOT allow those to affect you.

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra Tank View Post
    Agreed, but on the really big plays you expect just a "little" better. That and the 5th TD for Claypool was sad. But we did benefit from some really bad DPI calls. But like people say, you need to be good enough to NOT allow those to affect you.
    I think Claypool stepped out of bounds on the “5th TD” or are least thats what the announcers claimed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    A nice (at least for me) breakdown of some of the breakdowns: https://steelersdepot.com/2020/10/wa...ers-secondary/

    To me, this just looks like what happens when you play the first 4 weeks of the regular season as the preseason.

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    A nice (at least for me) breakdown of some of the breakdowns: https://steelersdepot.com/2020/10/wa...ers-secondary/

    To me, this just looks like what happens when you play the first 4 weeks of the regular season as the preseason.
    Do you mind summarizing what was shown? I can't play the video at work



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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by tube517 View Post
    Do you mind summarizing what was shown? I can't play the video at work
    Sure. Alex K goes over about 5 plays from the Eagles game. And they all show different versions of the same thing. The Eagles use formations such as a triple stack of WRs to one side, putting a WR as the split back in the backfield, and a few other "odd" alignments that appear to cause the Steelers defense to break down in their communication/coordination.

    On each play, an Eagles pass catcher comes open because the Steelers secondary ends up sending 2+ guys to cover one of the receivers and no one to cover the guy who ends up with the ball.

    Alex K argues, and I tend to agree, that we can not know what the exact breakdowns are since we really don't know the play calls. But that we can easily see that something wasn't working right by the reactions of the Steelers players and on at least one of the plays, the obvious pre-snap confusion on defense.

    Hopefully, this is just all part of the preseason as regular season. Across the league, offense is far ahead of defense.

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    Re: Steelers’ Abysmal Third-Down Defense Nearly Spoils The Day As Eagles Convert 11 Straight


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