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Thread: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

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    Senior Member Array title="st33lersguy has a reputation beyond repute">

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    Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Seriously. It's amazing the ridiculous amount of media hype he gets. Unanimous mvp from simply running through wide open holes was a joke. Should be noted that Baltimore was ranked behind the bears in terms of passing yards and Baltimore didn't win a game after trailing by 7. Endless media attention from the media being dazzled by his ability to run fast

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    I 100% disagree.

    The Ravens were low in passing yards because of the same reason that the steelers in 2004 and 2005 ... They were last in pass attempts ... Lamar still led the league in TD pass, something Kordell has never been close to doing .... The Ravens have also been ahead in the scoreboard almost for the entire season, so very few chance of making a huge comeback when this is the case.

    Jackson is a special player .... The Ravens played for .500 since 2013 before his first start ... since his first start, the ravens are 19-3 in the regular season with him as starter

    And finally, the biggest difference between Lamar and Kordell is that Lamar saved the job of their head coach, John Harbaugh ... In the case of Kordell, Cowher was almost fired because of Kordell.

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Let's take the last five QB MVPs, and compare the average of their performances with Jackson's 2019 performance.
    Lamar Jackson 2019 stats.

    Year G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Rate 4QC GWD AV
    Jackson 2019*+ 15 15 265 401 66.1 3127 36 9.0 6 1.5 113.3 1 2 25
    Avg. MVP ---- 16 16 355 542 65.5 4567 38.6 7.12 8.4 1.56 109 1.8 2.2 20.6
    Patrick Mahomes 2018 stats.
    Year G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Rate 4QC GWD AV
    2018*+ 16 16 383 580 66.0 5097 50 8.6 12 2.1 113.8 2 2 22
    Tom Brady 2017 stats.
    Year G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Rate 4QC GWD AV
    2017*+ 16 16 385 581 66.3 4577 32 5.5 8 1.4 102.8 2 2 19
    Matt Ryan 2016 stats.
    Year G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Rate 4QC GWD AV
    2016*+ 16 16 373 534 69.9 4944 38 7.1 7 1.3 117.1 1 2 21
    Cam Newton 2015 stats.
    Year G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Rate 4QC GWD AV
    2015*+ 16 16 296 495 59.8 3837 35 7.1 10 2.0 99.4 3 4 20

    Aaron Rodgers 2014 stats.
    Year G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Rate 4QC GWD AV
    2014*+ 16 16 341 520 65.6 4381 38 7.3 5 1.0 112.2 1 1 21
    Generated 6/27/2020.

    Analysis. he threw considerable less passages, however, he was a hair more accurate than the average MVP QB over the last five years. He through for less yards as well, but remember the Ravens are still a very strong run team. The passing TD numbers are misleading because of Mahomes's 50 TDs. It is so far out of the norm that it throws the averages off. Without it, the average is 35.75 TDs, and Jackson threw for 36. Also, note the interception, and the interception percent. Both are lower (although the INT percent is just a hair lower) than the average MVP. The QB rates also telling. In fact, is rate is only .5 points lower than the highest (Mahomes at 113.8). While he has a lower comeback percent, he has just a slightly lower game winning drive percent, which is more important, in my opinion. Finally, the AV (average value as computed by PFR). He has a higher AV than anyone else on the list.

    BTW, Kordell Stewart, taking his best numbers the years he started all season, had a 60.2 completion percentage, 21 TDs for a 4.8 TD percent, a 2.5 INT percent, and his best QB rate was 81.7. He had four 4th Q comebacks and 5 GWDs. So, that's better, but his best AV was 16, and that's the highest he ever reached. Those numbers are tremendously lower than the MVPs of that era. For instance, Kurt Warner, who was MVP twice around Kordell's time, is comparable to the MVP numbers except his INTs were higher. His TDs were lower in his 2001 year but in 1991, he hit 41 TDs with a 2.6 INT average. Favre, who was MVP 3 times, also has comparable numbers ecxept for a little lower TD percent and lower AV. That means Kordell Stewart, while playing in an era less conducive to passing, still played at a time when the numbers reached by MVP QBs were almost equal to today's QBs.

    Summary: In Lamar Jackson's MVP year, according to the stats, he was as accurate a passer as the average MVP, hits the average TD percent almost dead on without Mahomes's outlier that artificially distorts the percentage, is just as good as the other MVPs at protecting the football, was a tad above average in QB rating, and was more important to his team than any other player (AV). When compared with Kordell Stewart's best numbers across all his years starting for a season, Stewart consistently ranked very low against the MVP QBs, QBs whose numbers were very close to today's MVP Quarterbacks.

    Conclusion: Comparing Jackson to Stewart is like comparing a model rocket to High Power Rocketry. Sure, they have similarities, but similarities does not equal similar, and similar does not equal is as in A is B. Consequently, Lamar Jackson is not Kordell Stewart, with or without media coverage. he is a much better player with a more accurate arm.
    Last edited by Craic; 06-27-2020 at 06:38 PM.


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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    The Tennessee playoff game last year showed that the Ravens could be beat by simply forcing Jackson to win by throwing the ball. It should also be noted that John Harbaugh and OC Greg Roman have carefully constructed an offensive system solely suited to Jackson's strength as a fast guy out of necessity as his limitations as a passer limit the offense. This combined with one of the elite O-lines helped him continue to run and cover up Jackson's limitations as a thrower. Until Jackson can show he can throw the ball consistently and win with his arm the Ravens will continue to fail in the postseason with him at QB
    Last edited by st33lersguy; 06-27-2020 at 10:59 PM.

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Their playoffs loss was because they were horrible in situation football(like in the red zone or in fourth down and 1)...Nothing to do with Jackson throwing the ball...Also their defense could not stop Henry.

    Also,this is important for every player that their coach play to the players strength...The strength of Jackson are the only reason why they had the best running game in the NFL since 1978 and they were by far the best team in the NFL in time of possession.First in points per game too.

    BTW,I think in the NFL of today,QB like Vick and Kordell would been also a superstar in a good situation.

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Steeler fans: Get pissed when they perceive that the coaches aren't calling plays to the players strengths.

    Steeler fans: Down play players abilities on other teams when coaches call plays to their strengths.


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    Senior Member Array title="polamalubeast has a reputation beyond repute">

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Many Steelers fan hates running QB so much because of what happen with Kordell.

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Many Steelers fan hates running QB so much because of what happen with Kordell.
    Or what DIDN'T happen with Kordell...


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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Quote Originally Posted by 43Hitman View Post
    Steeler fans: Get pissed when they perceive that the coaches aren't calling plays to the players strengths.

    Steeler fans: Down play players abilities on other teams when coaches call plays to their strengths.
    Nailed it.

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Many Steelers fan hates running QB so much because of what happen with Kordell.
    Well that, and running QBs tend to suck as passers at the NFL level.

    Personally, I lump Jackson in with Cam Newton at this point.

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    I just hope it turns out to be true.

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind


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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    He's a better passer than Kordell.

    What he reminds me of is Colin Kaepernick before the 49ers inexplicably scrapped the read-option offense a season and a half into his career as a starter. Very good in an offense that was designed around his strengths, probably not so good as a "traditional" drop-back passer.

    For that matter, a lot of that was the same reason why Kordell struggled as the full-time starter. The biggest part of his success, the element of uncertainty, was completely taken out of the game plan. It would be like having Troy Polamalu line up in the same spot in deep centerfield pass coverage every time. It doesn't work.

    Bottom line, Jackson could continue to be good, but it will be interesting to see whether the Ravens keep playing to his strengths. Past history indicates that most teams get spooked before long and turtle up to "protect their investment," thereby ruining their investment by taking away his best weapon. A guy like that, you have to let it ride and take your chances. Sometimes you'll get a bad break abd it'll wind up like RG3, sometimes not. But trying to rein in the offense is just throwing in the towel.
    An empty victory is a victory nonetheless.

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Quote Originally Posted by FrancoLambert View Post
    I just hope it turns out to be true.
    This. More Stewart or RGIII and less Randall Cunningham or Steve Young.

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    The person to ask is Coach Cowher. If Cowher starts kissing him, then you know he is Kordell 2.0.
    All Defense!

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind




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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Kordell was better
    My Avatar is worse than the Madden Curse. My Previous avatars: 1- Antonio Brown, 2- Juju / Conner, 3- Tom Brady, 4- Lamar Jackson. Their careers all went south when I added them as my avatar, so I'm trying to make something good out of the bad

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    Kordell was better
    no

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    no
    yea
    My Avatar is worse than the Madden Curse. My Previous avatars: 1- Antonio Brown, 2- Juju / Conner, 3- Tom Brady, 4- Lamar Jackson. Their careers all went south when I added them as my avatar, so I'm trying to make something good out of the bad

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    yea
    The biggest difference between Lamar and Kordell is that in 2018,Lamar has saved the job of John Harbaugh....Kordell almost cost the job of Bill Cowher after the 1999 season.

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    The biggest difference between Lamar and Kordell is that in 2018,Lamar has saved the job of John Harbaugh....Kordell almost cost the job of Bill Cowher after the 1999 season.
    The biggest difference is that in 1998 NFL coaches still tried to change players to fit syatems. In 2020, coaches actually change systems to fit players.

    If Kordell Stewart was drafted into this version of the NFL, he would be far more successful.

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    The biggest difference is that in 1998 NFL coaches still tried to change players to fit syatems. In 2020, coaches actually change systems to fit players.

    If Kordell Stewart was drafted into this version of the NFL, he would be far more successful.
    Agree. Kordell was in the wrong era...and wrong offense.


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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Kordell didn’t have half the athletic ability Lamar has. Way to soon to count him out. They easily could be 8-2 right now and we wouldn’t be writing him off. Not to mention he knows he needs to and wants to improve and is fairly humble. Unlike Kordell. I think Vick a much better comparison.

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Quote Originally Posted by cubanstogie View Post
    Kordell didn’t have half the athletic ability Lamar has. Way to soon to count him out. They easily could be 8-2 right now and we wouldn’t be writing him off. Not to mention he knows he needs to and wants to improve and is fairly humble. Unlike Kordell. I think Vick a much better comparison.
    Very true. But even Vick in what teams are willing to do now versus then? It looks better. Are guys like Vick, Stewart, young Cunningham etc. Viewed different? I think so. Instead of teams being focused on what they couldn't do, they'd be salivating over what they could do.


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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Agree. Kordell was in the wrong era...and wrong offense.
    ...and wrong position. I doubt a change of eras would have solved the little problem he had of being unable to hit the broad side of a barn with a football, or his penchant for throwing it to guys wearing the wrong-colored jerseys, particularly in big games.

    The guy just wasn't a NFL QB - then or now.

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Kordell might be the most elusive player we’ve ever had. Starting DBs had trouble keeping up with him.

    Kordell’s two biggest problems:
    -starring down a receiver
    -not running when it was beneficial

    The last INT in the 1997 AFCCG is a perfect example of both. Charlie Batch could have ran for the 3-yard touchdown. Instead, Kordell locked onto his target, resulting in the LB and the safety to both converge on the receiver (triple-coverage)... leading to the game-losing INT by Kordell.

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Kordell might be the most elusive player we’ve ever had. Starting DBs had trouble keeping up with him.

    Kordell’s two biggest problems:
    -starring down a receiver
    -not running when it was beneficial

    The last INT in the 1997 AFCCG is a perfect example of both. Charlie Batch could have ran for the 3-yard touchdown. Instead, Kordell locked onto his target, resulting in the LB and the safety to both converge on the receiver (triple-coverage)... leading to the game-losing INT by Kordell.
    And that was because Stewart was coached in both the NCAA and the NFL to stay in the pocket and "run the offense". Now, he would be encouraged to run. The offense would be simplified and streamlined to hide his flaws. Stewart was a square peg in a round hole. Now, the NCAA and the NFL has finally realized that you will have more success changing the shape of the system rather than way a guy plays in some scenarios.

    I am not arguing that Stewart would/could be great or anything. But if he was almost/kinda/sorta a viable starting QB in a system that really didn't cater to his skills...what would he be if he was put in a system that highlighted his positive traits and hid his flaws?

    I would have to go back and watch highlights/lowlights...but how much worse of a passer was Stewart than Josh Allen? Just going by college and pro completion percentages...they are a push until this year by Allen. But Allen is only a few percentage points better and plays in a pass wacky era with a system specifically tailored to him.

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    Re: Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    And that was because Stewart was coached in both the NCAA and the NFL to stay in the pocket and "run the offense". Now, he would be encouraged to run. The offense would be simplified and streamlined to hide his flaws. Stewart was a square peg in a round hole. Now, the NCAA and the NFL has finally realized that you will have more success changing the shape of the system rather than way a guy plays in some scenarios.

    I am not arguing that Stewart would/could be great or anything. But if he was almost/kinda/sorta a viable starting QB in a system that really didn't cater to his skills...what would he be if he was put in a system that highlighted his positive traits and hid his flaws?

    I would have to go back and watch highlights/lowlights...but how much worse of a passer was Stewart than Josh Allen? Just going by college and pro completion percentages...they are a push until this year by Allen. But Allen is only a few percentage points better and plays in a pass wacky era with a system specifically tailored to him.
    I would agree Kordell would be much better at RPO plays than offense he played in. My recollection was he was most successful as Slash and not as QB. Hard for me to be objective because Im not a Kordell fan. My buddy who now works in marketing for NFL team started as a sportscaster 25 plus years ago and to this day says Kordell was cockiest and most arrogant athlete he ever interviewed.

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