Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 43

Thread: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array title="polamalubeast has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    28,368

    How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Ed Bouchette think that it would have been at least 3


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array title="lipps83 has a reputation beyond repute"> lipps83's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Gender
    Posts
    2,227

    Re: How many Super Bowl the steelers would have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Ed Bouchette think that it would have been at least 3
    Some people like to say 'ALL OF THEM' but that isn't even in wildest dreams category. And I find it highly unlikely they would win 3.

    They might have been lucky to even make a Super Bowl and they did without Marino, so I would say 'they might have been a little more successful, but I think everything pretty much would mostly turn out the same'. I think they would have had pretty much the same amount of success.

    You want to know why?

    Every time this comes up "What if they drafted Marino", nobody talks about the fact that everything else would change for every other team too. This is the elephant in the room to the discussion. This discussion is always merely INSERT DAN MARINO INTO 80's & 90's TEAM WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING ELSE. Would that team be awesome? Yes. However, there is no way that team could ever have happened, unfortunately.

    You can't truly do that without taking into consideration the dynamic that literally everything else in the NFL must change too.

    Would the Steelers have been more successful? Yes. And since they would have been, therein lies the problem. That isn't even taking into account the Dolphins would have been less successful. Draft position builds teams, you can't draft Dan Marino and then pretend every draft after that would have been the same for the Steelers and everyone else. Not only are the Steelers now drafting different, but the Dolphins are too and that ripple effect impacts all the other teams and who they select. AFC East teams wouldn't have to defend against Marino, so none of them are drafting to defend against him (and they wouldn't be picking in the same spots either, Dolphins are worse, so AFC East opponents have more accumulative wins). AFC Central teams would so that changes their drafting strategy.

    Chances are almost 100% that you now have no Rod Woodson. Probably no Dawson or Lake either. Those three players were a huge part of the success of the 90's team and parts of the team were built around them. You are no longer drafting in the same spot. You are more successful now so you get to pick later in the round out of the lesser talent. You certainly aren't picking 10th in 1987 so there goes Woodson. If you want to say "Sure they still could have" than you miss the point of drafting Dan Marino instead of Rivera. You don't draft Dan Marino to still pick 10th in 1987.

    You might have also missed out on selecting Rienstra in 86 (which would be a good thing). Probably still would have picked Ricketts in 89 though because you have to protect Dan Marino and Ricketts is from Murrysville.

    It is impossible to say how many Super Bowls they would have won with Marino. It certainly is a fun conversation but I think one that people take a little bit too seriously in thinking that it would have been the team we watched in the 90's, just with Marino added. It wouldn't have been.

    Maybe with the Steelers being a bit more successful, maybe Noll sticks around another year or two? Maybe the Steelers miss out on getting Cowher because Noll was there until 95.

    That's the conversation I want to have. It is too complicated so nobody likes to talk about it with me. Sad Face.

    This same thing goes for games that "If only Ben threw that touchdown instead of the interception" talk too. If Ben made that pass, the rest of the game plays out completely differently. It doesn't magically go from a 24-28 loss to a 31-28 win. If Ben made that pass, the rest of the game unfolds differently at that point because both coaches are going to coach it differently from that point forward.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array title="HollywoodSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> HollywoodSteel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    6,897

    Re: How many Super Bowl the steelers would have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by lipps83 View Post
    Some people like to say 'ALL OF THEM' but that isn't even in wildest dreams category. And I find it highly unlikely they would win 3.

    They might have been lucky to even make a Super Bowl and they did without Marino, so I would say 'they might have been a little more successful, but I think everything pretty much would mostly turn out the same'. I think they would have had pretty much the same amount of success.

    You want to know why?

    Every time this comes up "What if they drafted Marino", nobody talks about the fact that everything else would change for every other team too. This is the elephant in the room to the discussion. This discussion is always merely INSERT DAN MARINO INTO 80's & 90's TEAM WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING ELSE. Would that team be awesome? Yes. However, there is no way that team could ever have happened, unfortunately.

    You can't truly do that without taking into consideration the dynamic that literally everything else in the NFL must change too.

    Would the Steelers have been more successful? Yes. And since they would have been, therein lies the problem. That isn't even taking into account the Dolphins would have been less successful. Draft position builds teams, you can't draft Dan Marino and then pretend every draft after that would have been the same for the Steelers and everyone else. Not only are the Steelers now drafting different, but the Dolphins are too and that ripple effect impacts all the other teams and who they select. AFC East teams wouldn't have to defend against Marino, so none of them are drafting to defend against him (and they wouldn't be picking in the same spots either, Dolphins are worse, so AFC East opponents have more accumulative wins). AFC Central teams would so that changes their drafting strategy.

    Chances are almost 100% that you now have no Rod Woodson. Probably no Dawson or Lake either. Those three players were a huge part of the success of the 90's team and parts of the team were built around them. You are no longer drafting in the same spot. You are more successful now so you get to pick later in the round out of the lesser talent. You certainly aren't picking 10th in 1987 so there goes Woodson. If you want to say "Sure they still could have" than you miss the point of drafting Dan Marino instead of Rivera. You don't draft Dan Marino to still pick 10th in 1987.

    You might have also missed out on selecting Rienstra in 86 (which would be a good thing). Probably still would have picked Ricketts in 89 though because you have to protect Dan Marino and Ricketts is from Murrysville.

    It is impossible to say how many Super Bowls they would have won with Marino. It certainly is a fun conversation but I think one that people take a little bit too seriously in thinking that it would have been the team we watched in the 90's, just with Marino added. It wouldn't have been.

    Maybe with the Steelers being a bit more successful, maybe Noll sticks around another year or two? Maybe the Steelers miss out on getting Cowher because Noll was there until 95.

    That's the conversation I want to have. It is too complicated so nobody likes to talk about it with me. Sad Face.

    This same thing goes for games that "If only Ben threw that touchdown instead of the interception" talk too. If Ben made that pass, the rest of the game plays out completely differently. It doesn't magically go from a 24-28 loss to a 31-28 win. If Ben made that pass, the rest of the game unfolds differently at that point because both coaches are going to coach it differently from that point forward.
    Man, imagine how much more successful we’d have been if we’d never drafted Bradshaw or Ben, because we’d have been so much less successful that we’d have drafted so much better.

    If only we hadn’t been to 8 Super Bowls and won 6, this team might have amounted to something.


  4. #4
    NFL's Dirtiest Player Array title="86WARD has a reputation beyond repute"> 86WARD's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Gender
    Posts
    50,469

    Re: How many Super Bowl the steelers would have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by lipps83 View Post
    Some people like to say 'ALL OF THEM' but that isn't even in wildest dreams category. And I find it highly unlikely they would win 3.

    They might have been lucky to even make a Super Bowl and they did without Marino, so I would say 'they might have been a little more successful, but I think everything pretty much would mostly turn out the same'. I think they would have had pretty much the same amount of success.

    You want to know why?

    Every time this comes up "What if they drafted Marino", nobody talks about the fact that everything else would change for every other team too. This is the elephant in the room to the discussion. This discussion is always merely INSERT DAN MARINO INTO 80's & 90's TEAM WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING ELSE. Would that team be awesome? Yes. However, there is no way that team could ever have happened, unfortunately.

    You can't truly do that without taking into consideration the dynamic that literally everything else in the NFL must change too.

    Would the Steelers have been more successful? Yes. And since they would have been, therein lies the problem. That isn't even taking into account the Dolphins would have been less successful. Draft position builds teams, you can't draft Dan Marino and then pretend every draft after that would have been the same for the Steelers and everyone else. Not only are the Steelers now drafting different, but the Dolphins are too and that ripple effect impacts all the other teams and who they select. AFC East teams wouldn't have to defend against Marino, so none of them are drafting to defend against him (and they wouldn't be picking in the same spots either, Dolphins are worse, so AFC East opponents have more accumulative wins). AFC Central teams would so that changes their drafting strategy.

    Chances are almost 100% that you now have no Rod Woodson. Probably no Dawson or Lake either. Those three players were a huge part of the success of the 90's team and parts of the team were built around them. You are no longer drafting in the same spot. You are more successful now so you get to pick later in the round out of the lesser talent. You certainly aren't picking 10th in 1987 so there goes Woodson. If you want to say "Sure they still could have" than you miss the point of drafting Dan Marino instead of Rivera. You don't draft Dan Marino to still pick 10th in 1987.

    You might have also missed out on selecting Rienstra in 86 (which would be a good thing). Probably still would have picked Ricketts in 89 though because you have to protect Dan Marino and Ricketts is from Murrysville.

    It is impossible to say how many Super Bowls they would have won with Marino. It certainly is a fun conversation but I think one that people take a little bit too seriously in thinking that it would have been the team we watched in the 90's, just with Marino added. It wouldn't have been.

    Maybe with the Steelers being a bit more successful, maybe Noll sticks around another year or two? Maybe the Steelers miss out on getting Cowher because Noll was there until 95.

    That's the conversation I want to have. It is too complicated so nobody likes to talk about it with me. Sad Face.

    This same thing goes for games that "If only Ben threw that touchdown instead of the interception" talk too. If Ben made that pass, the rest of the game plays out completely differently. It doesn't magically go from a 24-28 loss to a 31-28 win. If Ben made that pass, the rest of the game unfolds differently at that point because both coaches are going to coach it differently from that point forward.
    Exactly what Lipps said...had they drafted Marino, maybe they make it to the 84 Super Bowl but probably lose to the 49ers. Just because they beat them in the regular season doesn’t automatically give them a Super Bowl victory as well. The 49ers were a much, much better team and on the upswing.

    After that, the drafting of Marino May have turned this team into a team built similar to the Dolphins with Marino...you never know...they may still be sitting with 4 Super Bowls...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array title="Hawkman has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Posts
    3,695

    Re: How many Super Bowl the steelers would have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Time for people to get out and about. Stop thinking about what could have been.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Posts
    15,076

    Re: How many Super Bowl the steelers would have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Lipps makes a valid point.

    That said, let’s assume that the Steelers lose out on their R1 pick, but the rest of their draft remains the same. Even if the Steelers were in the Super Bowl, their R2 picks wouldn’t change. For example, Dawson isn’t drafted in R2, but instead, he is drafted at the end of R1. You would still have every outstanding player (Dawson, Lake, Lloyd) drafted in the 80s on the 90s rosters... except for Woodson.

    btw: Looking at those R1 picks, you’d really are not losing much: Worley, Richardson, Rienstra. Meh.

    Assuming we have those core players, but we get to add Marino to the 1994, 1995, and 1997 teams, I like our chances of winning it all in at least one (probably two) of those seasons.

  7. #7
    NFL's Dirtiest Player Array title="86WARD has a reputation beyond repute"> 86WARD's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Gender
    Posts
    50,469

    How many Super Bowl the steelers would have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Lipps makes a valid point.

    That said, let’s assume that the Steelers lose out on their R1 pick, but the rest of their draft remains the same. Even if the Steelers were in the Super Bowl, their R2 picks wouldn’t change. For example, Dawson isn’t drafted in R2, but instead, he is drafted at the end of R1. You would still have every outstanding player (Dawson, Lake, Lloyd) drafted in the 80s on the 90s rosters... except for Woodson.

    btw: Looking at those R1 picks, you’d really are not losing much: Worley, Richardson, Rienstra. Meh.

    Assuming we have those core players, but we get to add Marino to the 1994, 1995, and 1997 teams, I like our chances of winning it all in at least one (probably two) of those seasons.
    But with Marino on the team, the draft pick order may be better, may be worse and they may look at building the team totally different than they did. Maybe they look towards more offense and the defense isn’t as good as what it was? It would be an interesting excersise to go back and redraft a team in hindsight (based on draft status and not nfl career) building it around Marino...you would have to account for how many more games he would win and what those new/different players may or may not bring to the table.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Posts
    15,076

    Re: How many Super Bowl the steelers would have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    But with Marino on the team, the draft pick order may be better, may be worse and they may look at building the team totally different than they did. Maybe they look towards more offense and the defense isn’t as good as what it was? It would be an interesting excersise to go back and redraft a team in hindsight (based on draft status and not nfl career) building it around Marino...you would have to account for how many more games he would win and what those new/different players may or may not bring to the table.
    There are indeed infinite possibilities, which is why I “kept it the same” in my post. There are too many “what if...” to account for changing anything beyond just the QB.

    R2 picks become R1 picks... R3 picks become R2 picks. That way, even if we won the Super Bowl (picked last every draft), it wouldn’t really change anything else about the roster... except for losing all of those R1 picks (most of which were meh anyway).

  9. #9
    Administrator Array title="fansince'76 has a reputation beyond repute"> fansince'76's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Gender
    Posts
    24,127

    Re: How many Super Bowl the steelers would have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    ... except for losing all of those R1 picks (most of which were meh anyway).
    Not getting Woodson because they picked later would have been HUGE, though.

    However, I think the spirit of Bouchette's tweet assumes that everything else would have stayed constant. In that scenario, I think the Steelers win SB XXX at a minimum.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array title="st33lersguy has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    15,230

    Re: How many Super Bowl the steelers would have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    I think this should be mentioned. The Dolphins missed the playoffs 4 straight years from 86-89 and was as bad as 6-10 '88 with Marino starting all but 3 games in that time. From 86-91, the Dolphins won an average of 1 game more per season than the Steelers. In that timeframe, they won more than 1 game twice and more than 2 games once. Now I don't know what that means as far as draft position exactly but I don't see any reason why they have to lose too many players.

    All things remaining constant though, they make Super Bowl 19 with Marino passing to Lipps and Stallworth but lose to the 49ers (who were just too damn good that year but it's closer with a better defense). They also make Super Bowl 29 but again lose to the 49ers as no one was going to stop Steve Young from winning that game. They do win Super Bowl 30 (for obvious reasons) and again Super Bowl 32 (Marino doesn't give away the 97 AFC Championship game and they then defeat the Packers like the Broncos did)

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Posts
    15,076

    Re: How many Super Bowl the steelers would have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    Not getting Woodson because they picked later would have been HUGE, though.

    However, I think the spirit of Bouchette's tweet assumes that everything else would have stayed constant. In that scenario, I think the Steelers win SB XXX at a minimum.
    True... not having Woodson would have hurt

    That said, in my scenario, we’d be in the Super Bowl in 94, 95, & 97 seasons. Rod wouldn’t have been starting on the 95 team (he was injured), and he was gone completely by 97. In other words, we would have missed him in 94... but, if you give me a HOF QB along with Barry Foster/Bam Morris, I think it would have more than made up for the hole created by not having Rod for that one playoff run.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array title="Butch has a reputation beyond repute"> Butch's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Gender
    Posts
    3,985

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    While football is a team sport there is no doubt in my mind the single most important position is the QB. Having Woods on or any other player is really nice but we still need the QB to win on a consistent basis. I would argue while not having Woodson or other said player is not as important as having Marino. I also think our D was better with Dan behind center than what we had at that time.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array title="JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue has a reputation beyond repute"> JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Gender
    Posts
    5,653

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Every SB till Dan retired!

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Posts
    20,179

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Two at most. One if they were lucky. There were some strong and loaded NFC squads in that era.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array title="HollywoodSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> HollywoodSteel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    6,897

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    All I know is that we won zero Super Bowls while Marino was on a different team so how could it have been worse if we’d drafted him?

    Obviously it would have changed other things about our future drafts, but so what? Would you ever not take the best possible player at any given time because it might make your team better to the point where youll draft in a worse position in the future? Of course not! This is an exercise in silliness. Especially since we know for a FACT we won no Super Bowls in that era without him.

    It is less than a no brainer that we should have taken Marino.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Array title="Butch has a reputation beyond repute"> Butch's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Gender
    Posts
    3,985

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    All I know is that we won zero Super Bowls while Marino was on a different team so how could it have been worse if we’d drafted him?

    Obviously it would have changed other things about our future drafts, but so what? Would you ever not take the best possible player at any given time because it might make your team better to the point where youll draft in a worse position in the future? Of course not! This is an exercise in silliness. Especially since we know for a FACT we won no Super Bowls in that era without him.

    It is less than a no brainer that we should have taken Marino.
    Agreed and that brings up another question. Who would you rather have Marino or Woodson? FWIW I will take Dan

    - - - Updated - - -

  17. #17
    Senior Member Array title="BnG_Hevn has much to be proud of"> BnG_Hevn's Avatar
    Battleball Champion!

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,070

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Probably as many as the dolphins. The Butterfly Effect rules.

    Also, Marino had a huge ego and the offense was so tailored to him and the money he commanded, they couldn't field a good team around him. I saw an interview with one of his WRs, not sure if it was a Marks brother or not, or if it was Marino himself, but the gist was that the ball was catchable and Marino got pissed so the WR said "You make all the money, put it in my hands".

    Now, if you could simply let things play out the way the did with Marino on the roster, then Cowher's team would have at least 3 or 4 SBs.

    But alas, Marino winning means you don't draft same players (Butterfly Effect) and the roster would be totally different.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Lipps makes a valid point.

    That said, let’s assume that the Steelers lose out on their R1 pick, but the rest of their draft remains the same. Even if the Steelers were in the Super Bowl, their R2 picks wouldn’t change. For example, Dawson isn’t drafted in R2, but instead, he is drafted at the end of R1. You would still have every outstanding player (Dawson, Lake, Lloyd) drafted in the 80s on the 90s rosters... except for Woodson.

    btw: Looking at those R1 picks, you’d really are not losing much: Worley, Richardson, Rienstra. Meh.

    Assuming we have those core players, but we get to add Marino to the 1994, 1995, and 1997 teams, I like our chances of winning it all in at least one (probably two) of those seasons.
    With Marino on '94 and '95 teams I think those are SB wins for sure.
    “They say all marriages are made in heaven, but so are thunder and lightning.”
    ― Clint Eastwood

  18. #18
    Senior Member Array title="Hawkman has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Posts
    3,695

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Two at most. One if they were lucky. There were some strong and loaded NFC squads in that era.
    Yep, I was going to go with one.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Array title="EzraTank has a reputation beyond repute"> EzraTank's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Gender
    Posts
    6,880

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    21.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BnG_Hevn View Post
    Probably as many as the dolphins. The Butterfly Effect rules.

    Also, Marino had a huge ego and the offense was so tailored to him and the money he commanded, they couldn't field a good team around him. I saw an interview with one of his WRs, not sure if it was a Marks brother or not, or if it was Marino himself, but the gist was that the ball was catchable and Marino got pissed so the WR said "You make all the money, put it in my hands".

    Now, if you could simply let things play out the way the did with Marino on the roster, then Cowher's team would have at least 3 or 4 SBs.

    But alas, Marino winning means you don't draft same players (Butterfly Effect) and the roster would be totally different.

    - - - Updated - - -



    With Marino on '94 and '95 teams I think those are SB wins for sure.
    What? The 1994 49ers were a juggernaut. They destroyed the Chargers and would have easily beaten the Steelers whose defense would have kept it closer but still lost. I think they could have won the 95 and 97 years but Marino was getting pretty old by then. And of course this all assumes the rest of the team stayed the same (players, coaches, etc). We were coming back against the Cowboys in the 1995 game, and had tons of momentum until O'Donnell found the Cowboys Larry Brown with no receivers covering him.

    The teams in the 80's were suffering from years of high draft picks from being so good in the 70's (this was before free agency) and not really that good so having Marino then would have only helped a little. We didn't get better until Cowher came around.

  20. #20
    raising him properly Array title="vasteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> vasteeler's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    richmond va
    Gender
    Posts
    1,931

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Eleventy five

    "Zeds dead baby, Zeds dead." - Butch

  21. #21
    Administrator Array title="fansince'76 has a reputation beyond repute"> fansince'76's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Gender
    Posts
    24,127

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra Tank View Post
    What? The 1994 49ers were a juggernaut. They destroyed the Chargers and would have easily beaten the Steelers whose defense would have kept it closer but still lost.
    Easily? I dunno about that. I think the Rice-Woodson matchup would have been worth the price of admission alone and a hell of a lot more compelling than the crapfest that SB XXIX turned out to be with the Chargers as the AFC representative. That game was pretty much over in the first quarter. The '94 Steelers (with Marino) would have at least given the '94 Niners a game.

    I think people forget just how good the '90s Blitzburgh defenses were, thanks largely to their anemic offenses and less-than-stellar QBing.

  22. #22

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by BnG_Hevn View Post
    Probably as many as the dolphins. The Butterfly Effect rules.

    Also, Marino had a huge ego and the offense was so tailored to him and the money he commanded, they couldn't field a good team around him. I saw an interview with one of his WRs, not sure if it was a Marks brother or not, or if it was Marino himself, but the gist was that the ball was catchable and Marino got pissed so the WR said "You make all the money, put it in my hands".

    Now, if you could simply let things play out the way the did with Marino on the roster, then Cowher's team would have at least 3 or 4 SBs.

    But alas, Marino winning means you don't draft same players (Butterfly Effect) and the roster would be totally different.
    There's a good chance the butterfly effect lands Cowher on a different team as head coach. Why? If the Steelers were winning that many SBs in the '80s and early '90s, I'll almost guarantee Noll stays around for a few more years (he was sixty at retirement).


  23. #23
    Senior Member Array title="steelreserve has a reputation beyond repute"> steelreserve's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Old Mexico
    Gender
    Posts
    13,413

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    They might not have won anything. NFC teams won 15 of 16 Super Bowls during that stretch, and it included probably the two strongest "dynasty" teams of all time.

    The '85 Bears were basically the same team as the '84 Bears, the '86 Bears, the '87 Bears, and the '88 Bears (minus a declining Walter Payton), and they only made the Super Bowl once. Think about that shit.

    Remember, the '80s and '90s were the era when there was no salary cap preventing anyone from splurging to stockpile talent, and those were the biggest juggernauts of all time. Our biggest problem of that era was that we didn't have the resources to go toe-to-toe with that, and had to win by being clever, the NFL version of Moneyball before it was cool. Having Marino wouldn't have changed that.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

  24. #24
    Administrator Array title="fansince'76 has a reputation beyond repute"> fansince'76's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Gender
    Posts
    24,127

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    The '85 Bears were basically the same team as the '84 Bears, the '86 Bears, the '87 Bears, and the '88 Bears (minus a declining Walter Payton), and they only made the Super Bowl once. Think about that shit.
    And thoroughly average (at best) QB play interspersed with thoroughly less-than-average QB play when McMahon was injured, which was quite regularly throughout that entire period. Which goes right back to the point of the thread.

    For example. the Bears went 14-2 in 1986, including a 7-0 stretch with Mike Tomczak under center where the guy threw 10 INTs against 2 TDs while completing less than 50% of his passes.

    They then went one-and-done in the '86 postseason against the Redskins with Doug Flutie going 11-31 for 134 yards with 1 TD and 2 INTs.

    Kinda hard to overcome that kind of suck in the postseason regardless of how good your defense and legendary RB is, especially when the rest of the NFC was as strong as it was at the time.

    Historically speaking, the Bears have had even worse luck with QBs than the Steelers have had (it was the Bears who lost the coin flip with the Steelers for the rights to draft Bradshaw to boot). And that's saying something.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Array title="Six Rings is a splendid one to behold">

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Gender
    Posts
    1,124

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    1984. Steelers vs Dolphins. AFC championship game. The Steelers actually had an early lead. They had Marino, we had Malone...

    If the Steelers drafted Marino, they probably win at least one more Super Bowl.

    Those who remember the Malone and Brister years, prepare yourself. If Ben can't come back, or retire in 2 years, we'll be back there.

    https://www.drafttek.com/2021-NFL-Dr...ollege-QBs.asp

    One guy I really like is Sam Howell of North Carolina. But he's only 19....

  26. #26
    Senior Member Array title="polamalubeast has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    28,368

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    And thoroughly average (at best) QB play interspersed with thoroughly less-than-average QB play when McMahon was injured, which was quite regularly throughout that entire period. Which goes right back to the point of the thread.

    For example. the Bears went 14-2 in 1986, including a 7-0 stretch with Mike Tomczak under center where the guy threw 10 INTs against 2 TDs while completing less than 50% of his passes.

    They then went one-and-done in the '86 postseason against the Redskins with Doug Flutie going 11-31 for 134 yards with 1 TD and 2 INTs.

    Kinda hard to overcome that kind of suck in the postseason regardless of how good your defense and legendary RB is, especially when the rest of the NFC was as strong as it was at the time.

    Historically speaking, the Bears have had even worse luck with QBs than the Steelers have had (it was the Bears who lost the coin flip with the Steelers for the rights to draft Bradshaw to boot). And that's saying something.
    I think the last time the bears had a HOF QB in their team were in the 1940s I think.

  27. #27
    Administrator Array title="fansince'76 has a reputation beyond repute"> fansince'76's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Gender
    Posts
    24,127

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    I think the last time the bears had a HOF QB in their team were in the 1940s I think.
    Yep, Sid Luckman. After that? Whole lotta nothing.

    One more point about the Bears' 1986 season - they had FOUR different QBs start games for them during the season. Those four QBs wound up throwing 12 TDs against 25 INTs on the season. Ouch.

    in 1984, they had FIVE different QBs start games for them. They were down to their 3rd stringer starting in at least one game in 1987 and '88 as well. Well, actually, they went 2-0 in "scab" games in 1987 (strike year), but even so, Tomczak still started six games that year due to injuries to McMahon.

    So on top of average-to-bad QB play, they also had next to no continuity at the position for the most part.

  28. #28
    Senior Member Array title="polamalubeast has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    28,368

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    Yep, Sid Luckman. After that? Whole lotta nothing.

    One more point about the Bears' 1986 season - they had FOUR different QBs start games for them during the season. Those four QBs wound up throwing 12 TDs against 25 INTs on the season. Ouch.

    in 1984, they had FIVE different QBs start games for them. They were down to their 3rd stringer starting in at least one game in 1987 and '88 as well. Well, actually, they went 2-0 in "scab" games in 1987 (strike year), but even so, Tomczak still started six games that year due to injuries to McMahon.

    So on top of average-to-bad QB play, they also had next to no continuity at the position for the most part.
    The Bears in the 1980s proved that winning one super bowl with an average QB is possible but winning multiple super bowl with an average or below average QB is very hard to do in the NFL

    Also for 1985, I always wondered if the bears were lucky to not play against the dolphins in the super bowl ... The dolphins had won against the bears in regular season, but I'm not saying that the dolphins would have won against the bears in the super bowl since Miami were very weak against the run and Jim Mcmahon had not played in the matchup against Miami in regular season but it would have been a much better super bowl with way more hype before this game.

  29. #29
    Administrator Array title="fansince'76 has a reputation beyond repute"> fansince'76's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Gender
    Posts
    24,127

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    The Bears in the 1980s proved that winning one super bowl with an average QB is possible but winning multiple super bowl with an average or below average QB is very hard to do in the NFL.
    An average QB having the best season of his career. McMahon never sniffed another Pro Bowl after that season.

  30. #30
    Thread DeRailer Array title="tube517 has a reputation beyond repute"> tube517's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Gender
    Posts
    20,012

    Re: How many Super Bowls would the steelers have won in the 1980s and 1990s with Dan Marino?

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    An average QB having the best season of his career. McMahon never sniffed another Pro Bowl after that season.
    Hey he was the "Punky QB"
    Last edited by tube517; 05-30-2020 at 11:39 AM.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •