Rules change proposals: 4th and 15 instead of an onside kick?

[polamalubeast]

Stupid proposals rule and Unfortunately I would not be surprised if this is a new rule in 2020...We will see

[Butch]

They need to do something because as it stands right now the onside kick no longer exists.

[86WARD]

What did the XFL do for onside kicks? Didn’t they have an idea that was decent?

[st33lersguy]

Maybe go back to way the onside kick was to make it fair. "But Muh, player safety" bullcrap, the league lost the ability to play the player safety card when they went with the 17 game season

[teegre]

I’d say that 4th-&-15 with your starting QB is far more likely to be converted than an onside kick being recovered by the third-string fullback.

[pczach]

I’d say that 4th-&-15 with your starting QB is far more likely to be converted than an onside kick being recovered by the third-string fullback.

The team needs to assemble a special "Hands Team" with Limas Sweed, Sammy Coates, Ike Taylor, and Dwight "Stone Hands" leading the charge!

[teegre]

The team needs to assemble a special "Hands Team" with Limas Sweed, Sammy Coates, Ike Taylor, and Dwight "Stone Hands" leading the charge!

Two words: Dwayne Washington

I remember that I kept track of his dropped INTs over the course of a season. Had his hands been “decent”, he would have had 17 INTs. Really. It’s kind of crazy how good, yet how “bad”, he was.

[pczach]

Two words: Dwayne Washington

I remember that I kept track of his dropped INTs over the course of a season. Had his hands been “decent”, he would have had 17 INTs. Really. It’s kind of crazy how good, yet how “bad”, he was.

The new corrected "Hands Team" per your input:

Limas Sweed
Sammy Coates
Ike Taylor
Dwight "Stone Hands"
Dewayne Washington

Anyone should feel free to add to the list!

[tube517]

The new corrected "Hands Team" per your input:

Limas Sweed
Sammy Coates
Ike Taylor
Dwight "Stone Hands"
Dewayne Washington

Anyone should feel free to add to the list!

Moncrete dropped the invitation to the team

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[Born2Steel]

I like having the option. I don't think this would take anything away from the game or the enjoyment for the fans. If anything this would add some excitement to the end of a blowout game.

[pczach]

I like having the option. I don't think this would take anything away from the game or the enjoyment for the fans. If anything this would add some excitement to the end of a blowout game.

How about the first time somebody goes for this, and there is a pass interference call that results in an automatic first down? In a one score game, that is a huge call.

IMO, I think it should be harder than a 15 yard play or a PI penalty to essentially create a turnover.

[Born2Steel]

How about the first time somebody goes for this, and there is a pass interference call that results in an automatic first down? In a one score game, that is a huge call.

IMO, I think it should be harder than a 15 yard play or a PI penalty to essentially create a turnover.

Like what for instance? The current onside kickoff is such a low percentage play(6% in 2019) that it doesn't even make much sense. The only time teams really use it is when the other teams expect it. Other than the Saints in the SB when was the last time somebody called an onside kick a great play and idea? Given the 4th and 15 option, defenses can still expect it but teams get to let their offense go get rather than depending on a kicker to kick the ball just perfectly and the ball to bounce just right and go just the exact distance and all those variables that make it a pointless play in the vast majority of cases. If a team is down by 16 points or less, the 4th and 15 option actually keeps it a game. At least this is how I see it. Maybe not a perfect option in all cases but immensely better than the current onside Kick or bust option.

[pczach]

Like what for instance? The current onside kickoff is such a low percentage play(6% in 2019) that it doesn't even make much sense. The only time teams really use it is when the other teams expect it. Other than the Saints in the SB when was the last time somebody called an onside kick a great play and idea? Given the 4th and 15 option, defenses can still expect it but teams get to let their offense go get rather than depending on a kicker to kick the ball just perfectly and the ball to bounce just right and go just the exact distance and all those variables that make it a pointless play in the vast majority of cases. If a team is down by 16 points or less, the 4th and 15 option actually keeps it a game. At least this is how I see it. Maybe not a perfect option in all cases but immensely better than the current onside Kick or bust option.

I'm not saying to keep the onside kickoff the same. It's nearly impossible and pure luck.

I would like it better if it was maybe 4th and 20. The additional time to get off a play of that depth, plus the yardage makes it a little more difficult. I don't want a team to be getting their asses kicked all game and then complete two 4th and 15 plays, complete the drives, and suddenly they win the game.

I just see 4th and 15 as too simple a play to make in this passing league and with pass interference calls.

Here's an interesting read with deep passing accuracy percentages. I think some of the stats explain why there is a pretty high percentage of deep throws that were completed in the 2018-19 seasons. This article is about throws of 21 yards or deeper in the air. This article references another study by him with throws of 16 yards or more in the air. Pretty interesting.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...p-ball-project

[Born2Steel]

I'm not saying to keep the onside kickoff the same. It's nearly impossible and pure luck.

I would like it better if it was maybe 4th and 20. The additional time to get off a play of that depth, plus the yardage makes it a little more difficult. I don't want a team to be getting their asses kicked all game and then complete two 4th and 15 plays, complete the drives, and suddenly they win the game.

I just see 4th and 15 as too simple a play to make in this passing league and with pass interference calls.

Here's an interesting read with deep passing accuracy percentages. I think some of the stats explain why there is a pretty high percentage of deep throws that were completed in the 2018-19 seasons. This article is about throws of 21 yards or deeper in the air. This article references another study by him with throws of 16 yards or more in the air. Pretty interesting.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...p-ball-project

I still think this would be an improvement and I guess I have no problem with a team struggling for most of a game and winning with back to back 4th and 15 conversions. They would still need to drive the field and score after the conversions. The conversions don't instantly turn into points. So there is still that 'football' element to it.

[silver & black]

Is it one or the other or a choice? It it's a choice, I'm all about it.

[Mojouw]

Onside kick was just random dumb luck. We all bought into it because it was just the way it always was.

[polamalubeast]

[polamalubeast]

It will not happen…

[Mojouw]

Why don’t they just use preseason games to workshop this kinda thing?

A year before a major change, encourage teams to try it out for the preseason. Examine what worked and what didn’t. Revise and put it to a vote.

Oh. Wait. That makes actual sense.


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[polamalubeast]

[ALLD]

[polamalubeast]

[Six Rings]

Once the NFL figures out QB's are more likely to get hurt in 4th and 15, this silly idea, if passed will die.

If the NFL wants to add juice to the onside kick, simply allow the defense to advance the ball after recovering it. And while you at it, move kickoffs back 5 yards where they use to be. A kickoff return is an exciting play.

[polamalubeast]

0 on 104?!

This is not possible!