Data Shows Steelers Both Avoid Play-Action Passing And Are Bad At It

[polamalubeast]

I still remember the time that Todd Haley was brought in as offensive coordinator, and he talked about how big a part of the Pittsburgh Steelers offense play-action passing would be. For much of his career, Ben Roethlisberger liked to utilize play-action passing and was very successful doing it. That hasn’t bene the case for most of the past decade, however.

In fact, thanks to numbers posted by Aaron Schatz of Football Outsiders, we can see not only how little the Steelers have actually used play-action in the past half a decade, but also how poorly they have executed it—or at least how poor their results have been.

“Last year was the FIFTH straight year that Pittsburgh had a backwards relationship with play-action”, he wrote on Twitter, meaning that they have had more success on offense when they passed the ball without play-action rather than with it. The purpose of using it is, of course, to gain better results. And basically every other team manages to do this.

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https://steelersdepot.com/2020/05/da...are-bad-at-it/

Maybe they need to practice this more!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

First you need a successful running game, and some form of commitment to the run game, or opposing defenders wont actually buy on the run fake of play action. That hasn't happened the past few years IMO>

Next you need successful routes designed off play action and talented receivers or TE to get open off the play action. Whether its a quick seam route behind the ILB, a backside rollout or even a TE screen opposite the run action.

I don't think the Steelers have designed those plays at all, nor had decent enough TE play to actually challenge the seam or spots behind ILB's that would bite on run fakes. Maybe if Ebron and Mcinjured are healthy, they have the talent, but will Fichtner draw it up remains to be seen.

[Mojouw]

The really annoying thing about this is that there is a small mountain of recent evidence that indicates running success and/or attempts has zero impact on the success/effectiveness of play action passing. I can't find the most recent thing I saw about it right now and am far too lazy this morning to bother Googling it. Point is, that they could and should be doing this w/out requiring drastic differences in running success or attempts.

The lack of play action and pre-snap movement in the Steelers offense has been one of my biggest sources of frustration past few seasons.

[polamalubeast]

The really annoying thing about this is that there is a small mountain of recent evidence that indicates running success and/or attempts has zero impact on the success/effectiveness of play action passing. I can't find the most recent thing I saw about it right now and am far too lazy this morning to bother Googling it. Point is, that they could and should be doing this w/out requiring drastic differences in running success or attempts.

The lack of play action and pre-snap movement in the Steelers offense has been one of my biggest sources of frustration past few seasons.

I think Matt Canada will help for this ... I hope so!

In the last 5 years,the steelers had been very good to run the ball at least 3 of his years(2015 to 2017 with Haley as OC)

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

The really annoying thing about this is that there is a small mountain of recent evidence that indicates running success and/or attempts has zero impact on the success/effectiveness of play action passing. I can't find the most recent thing I saw about it right now and am far too lazy this morning to bother Googling it. Point is, that they could and should be doing this w/out requiring drastic differences in running success or attempts.

The lack of play action and pre-snap movement in the Steelers offense has been one of my biggest sources of frustration past few seasons.

If your running game isn't that good, or isn't much of a threat, the opposing DC isn't going to commit another player to play close to the line of scrimmage to stop it. Nor will opposing Inside Linebackers bite hard on the run fake, as much as watch for TE's or FB/HB leaking out into a pass pattern. Any poster on here that has played ILB or safety can attest to that.

I'm still confused as to why the Steelers rarely run play action, other than its more effective IMO from under center than in pistol.

[polamalubeast]

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/9...-2019-oddities

https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-foo...on-play-action

2 articles about that...One was before the 2019 season the other after the 2017 season...Ben and the steelers need to be better in play action

Another one during the 2018 season when this article said that you don't need to be great in running the ball to be great in play action

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...action-passing

[Mojouw]

If your running game isn't that good, or isn't much of a threat, the opposing DC isn't going to commit another player to play close to the line of scrimmage to stop it. Nor will opposing Inside Linebackers bite hard on the run fake, as much as watch for TE's or FB/HB leaking out into a pass pattern. Any poster on here that has played ILB or safety can attest to that.

I'm still confused as to why the Steelers rarely run play action, other than its more effective IMO from under center than in pistol.

That is why the recently available evidence is so odd. It appears that the “instinct” to react instantly and stop the run is so drilled into NFL defenders that play action works even when you aren’t running the ball.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ey-havent-yet/
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/06/nfl...ion-pass-stats
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...action-passing

It is a lot of graph nerd stuff, but the basic idea can be repeatedly measured and identified. A team can be running the ball infrequently and/or poorly and play action still works really well!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

That is why the recently available evidence is so odd. It appears that the “instinct” to react instantly and stop the run is so drilled into NFL defenders that play action works even when you aren’t running the ball.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ey-havent-yet/
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/06/nfl...ion-pass-stats
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...action-passing

It is a lot of graph nerd stuff, but the basic idea can be repeatedly measured and identified. A team can be running the ball infrequently and/or poorly and play action still works really well!

Thanks, but there are so many variables to consider.

Do they count a RPO as play action, since some teams have QB put ball in RB hands from pistol formation? In that case the QB reads the defender, not as much as the defender reads the play action.
Does it take into account the QB proficiency in executing a play action fake? Some QB's are really good at it, others not.
Does it factor in if blitzes were called on plays that ran play action, where there is not ILB read since they are blitzing.

I am with you in that I would like to see it run more by the Steelers and I agree if executed well with the right talent on the field, it may be tough to stop. For instance, a well placed throw to a 6'5" TE in the seam with even a lousy play action fake run to the 4 hole, should be completed and caught over a 6'2" ILB dropping in coverage if he pauses a bit. But if I am the ILB and the opposing team cant run past the 4 man front in front of me, I am shading the TE more than jumping at the RB.

[Born2Steel]

If there is no way to successfully measure an actual play-action play vs a non-play-action play, doesn't that bring into question the validity of the entire premise and article for the thread? AND pre-snap motion is not the same thing as play-action, at least by my definition, so are we talking about both as the same thing?

When Conner or Bell have been in the backfield(last 5 seasons according to the OP), play-action with Ben under center vs in shotgun success rate is the real measuring stick for this conversation. Actually last 5 seasons minus last season(no Ben). I'm really not that interested in doing that math but it is an interesting question. One I'm sure the offensive coaches have been discussing a lot lately, with emphasis on making the running game better and all supposedly the focus.

VS number of total play-action plays it makes sense the Steelers would be lower than the league average. 1. The Steelers run a zone OL blocking scheme. Depending on even or odd runs you block the guy left or right in your assigned zone which means the whole OL shifts at the snap. Play-action would not make sense here since the shift gives away run or pass. 2. Look at the teams that run more play-action how many times is it used to bootleg the QB or for a QB keeper play? Pulling ILBs and/or Safety in to stop the run opening space outside the pocket. Ben does not run bootlegs or call his own number often.

[Steeler-in-west]

Ben has seldom used it throughout his career, and I read on couple sites that his stats are worse when he’s used it. It just may not be his preference, and I don’t see that changing at the end of his career. Maybe it will be used more for the next QB

[Mojouw]

Thanks, but there are so many variables to consider.

Do they count a RPO as play action, since some teams have QB put ball in RB hands from pistol formation? In that case the QB reads the defender, not as much as the defender reads the play action.
Does it take into account the QB proficiency in executing a play action fake? Some QB's are really good at it, others not.
Does it factor in if blitzes were called on plays that ran play action, where there is not ILB read since they are blitzing.

I am with you in that I would like to see it run more by the Steelers and I agree if executed well with the right talent on the field, it may be tough to stop. For instance, a well placed throw to a 6'5" TE in the seam with even a lousy play action fake run to the 4 hole, should be completed and caught over a 6'2" ILB dropping in coverage if he pauses a bit. But if I am the ILB and the opposing team cant run past the 4 man front in front of me, I am shading the TE more than jumping at the RB.

The details contained in the articles and the associated ESPN play charting data appear to indicate that RPO's are tagged separately.

If you can't measure it; then why would you argue that it works or doesn't work? OR is this one of those only people who played or coached can understand things?

No real point in arguing about it. But it does raise a really interesting idea that actually running the ball doesn't really matter here. The results from KC and the Rams over the last several years also provide "real world" data that appears to support that idea as well.

[Edman]

The Steelers were not built to run the football/playaction even in the days of Le'Veon Bell. It was a pass-blocking line designed to let Ben get the ball out quickly. Bell's patient running style covered for the lack of real run blocking. This was not exactly a team that could confidently line up to get critical short yardage when they needed to. The Jaguars playoff game made that gruesomely apparent.

[RunNGun]

First you need a successful running game, and some form of commitment to the run game, or opposing defenders wont actually buy on the run fake of play action. That hasn't happened the past few years IMO>

Next you need successful routes designed off play action and talented receivers or TE to get open off the play action. Whether its a quick seam route behind the ILB, a backside rollout or even a TE screen opposite the run action.

I don't think the Steelers have designed those plays at all, nor had decent enough TE play to actually challenge the seam or spots behind ILB's that would bite on run fakes. Maybe if Ebron and Mcinjured are healthy, they have the talent, but will Fichtner draw it up remains to be seen.

I agree 100%. Another reason our playaction game isn't successful is we have had no vertical threats. Hopefully Claypool can help in that area.

[Mojouw]

The fascinating thing is that there are tons of assumed truths about football and what is needed to make this or that work well. It's only been in the last 2-3 years that raw data has been available outside of whatever efforts an individual team, at any level, did on their own. The data is beginning to call into question some entrenched truisms. Just like how "analytics" changed perceptions and priorities in MLB and the NBA: It is going to happen in the NFL. It's already started. I would never argue you let Excel run your team or anything, but I do worry that the NFL is going to have a " moneyball" or Golden State style gap open between teams that use the numbers and teams that trust the "traditional". I hope the Steelers find a way to walk the high wire between the two.

[polamalubeast]

The fascinating thing is that there are tons of assumed truths about football and what is needed to make this or that work well. It's only been in the last 2-3 years that raw data has been available outside of whatever efforts an individual team, at any level, did on their own. The data is beginning to call into question some entrenched truisms. Just like how "analytics" changed perceptions and priorities in MLB and the NBA: It is going to happen in the NFL. It's already started. I would never argue you let Excel run your team or anything, but I do worry that the NFL is going to have a " moneyball" or Golden State style gap open between teams that use the numbers and teams that trust the "traditional". I hope the Steelers find a way to walk the high wire between the two.

Yeah, it's important the teams use their heads for analytics, otherwise they will lose a lot of game because of that… I see a little too much manager in baseball doing their lineup and their pitching changes by analytics without using their head… Or the layup or 3 points strategy by the Houston Rockets in the NBA ... it's far too ridiculous and it's not good for the team and for the games too.

- - - Updated - - -

The Steelers were not built to run the football/playaction even in the days of Le'Veon Bell. It was a pass-blocking line designed to let Ben get the ball out quickly. Bell's patient running style covered for the lack of real run blocking. This was not exactly a team that could confidently line up to get critical short yardage when they needed to. The Jaguars playoff game made that gruesomely apparent.

We saw DeAngelo Williams and James Conner be very good behind this o-line when they were healthy ... If you want an o-line that was awful for the run blocking look at the Jets in 2019 ... For the short yards situation, a team needs to be less predictable and I speak not just for the steelers but all the NFL .... Too often teams run the ball in front of a defensive wall in 3rd down and short and are stopped and this is very predictable

I don't have the stats but I think the steelers were fine on the 3rd down and short between 2014 to 2018

[polamalubeast]

Perhaps the last time a play-action has worked for the steelers!

[Hawkman]

Perhaps the last time a play-action has worked for the steelers!

Such a shame about Bryant. He sure could take the top off. Amazing the number of times Ben hit him in stride.

[pczach]

Perhaps the last time a play-action has worked for the steelers!

That dude could fly! Once he got going his top-end speed was amazing.

[Born2Steel]

Perhaps the last time a play-action has worked for the steelers!

Nice, I thought this was going to be the "butt catch".