Very interesting article on examples that choosing a QB was not a strong point for Cowher like in 1992,1996,2000 and 2004.He also says it's time to recognize Cam Heyward.
https://www.steelers.com/news/labrio...r-s-qb-history
Very interesting article on examples that choosing a QB was not a strong point for Cowher like in 1992,1996,2000 and 2004.He also says it's time to recognize Cam Heyward.
https://www.steelers.com/news/labrio...r-s-qb-history
Love reading that about Cam Heyward.
So glad he’s part of this organization as a player, a leader, and a human being. I’m especially happy that he is now surrounded by super stars, because this defense is gonna be something special and Cam is going to be a huge part of that. We should be talking about TJ and Minkah and even the rising star, Devin Bush. But Cam Hayward is still the leader and heart and soul of this defense.
Cam Heyward was part of a unit who was clearly second fiddle to the Steelers' Killer B Offense for many years. I think that is why he mostly goes unrecognized. 2019 marked a changing of the guard for the Steelers back to the basics. The Defense has all the top talent and runs the show now, even with Ben returning. The accolades will start rolling in for Heyward and the others.
Originally Posted by polamalubeast
Hmmmm, Labriola is a good writer, but he's also in Rooney's pocket. It wasn't Bill Cowher fault that Dan Rooney didn't want to re-sign Neil O'Donnell who grew into a competent quarterback who can pass when needed. By doing this, the Steelers Super Bowl window slammed shut.
But to tell the truth, here would be blaming ownership, and that's something Labriola would never do.
Cowher found ways to win with Miller, Tomzack, Graham, Stewart, and Maddox at quarterback, making the playoffs often and even the AFC championship game.
Why Rooney would want that Labriola talk about Cowher like that ... Especially this article has nothing to do with Tomlin in this case but rather on Cowher's comments on Winston.
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At the time, the Jets overpaid for O'Donnell. He wasn't worth that kind of money.
I had no problem with the team letting him go. It just took a long time to get a great replacement when they drafted Ben.
Once again, Cowher didn't want to draft a quarterback in the first round in 2004. Mr. Rooney needed to force Cowher to draft Roethlisberger. It is well documented.
Remember, Cowher wanted Miller, Tomczak, Graham, Stewart, and Maddox as his quarterbacks. He chose to go with budget quarterbacks and stack the rest of the roster. It was his philosophy on how to win.
Um, the Rooney's were known as cheapskates in the 1990's and were picked apart in free agency. They let their super bowl QB go in his prime. Who does that? IMO Neil was worth 5 million a year back then to the Steelers. 1996-2003....dark times at QB. But Bob won't say that. It's true. The Rooney's started to spend more money once the Heinz field was built.
I don't know what type of draft grade the Steelers had on Drew Brees, but I sure as heck liked him.
It seems like Labriola is taking a shot at Cowher for suggesting Winston should be a Steeler. I'd certainly take him as a back up over Rudy and Duck. Who wouldn't.
Letting go Neil O'Donnell was not a mistake since O'Donnell was not a QB who could step up when it was time and he not make the team better as we saw with the jets, not just in 1996 but in 1997 too with Bill Parcells when the team was better ... 5 million a year at this time was a lot of money
To say that letting go of O'Donnell was a mistake is like saying that the ravens made a mistake of releasing Trent Dilfer after their super bowl in 2000 ... Very hard to be a true contender year after year with a QB like that , especially with a big contract in the salary cap era.
Where was the plan B? Neil had four 4th quarter comeback wins that year of the Super Bowl. Ben himself only did better once in his career. Its was Rooney's money not yours or mine, and by letting O'Donell go, he slammed the door shut on another super bowl, which I think we could have had. The Jets were a bad football team. ( 3-13 ) when the signed O'Donnell. O'Donnell got hurt on his first year with the Jets ( 1996 ), but 8-6 on the Jets in 1997, which says something.Letting go Neil O'Donnell was not a mistake since O'Donnell was not a QB who could step up when it was time and he not make the team better as we saw with the jets, not just in 1996 but in 1997 too with Bill Parcells when the team was better ... 5 million a year at this time was a lot of money
To say that letting go of O'Donnell was a mistake is like saying that the ravens made a mistake of releasing Trent Dilfer after their super bowl in 2000 ... Very hard to be a true contender year after year with a QB like that , especially with a big contract in the salary cap era.
The Ravens let Dilfer go because he wasn't good. In their super bowl year he had 12 TD's 11 INT's.
Do you know that the NFL has had a salary cap since 1994?
I compare Neil O'Donnell to Alex Smith ... A team can win with him but that limits the team's potential .... We can criticize that the steelers had no plan B (Kordell was their plan B but unfortunately he was even worse in big game) but letting O'Donnell go was not a mistake ... Bill Parcells changed QB after 1997 despite a winning record by O'Donnell.
After Super Bowl XXX, there is no way that a certain unnamed QB would have ever played a down again as a Steeler. Period.
As far as the rest goes... read the posts in the other twenty-dozen Cowher threads started this off-season. Here are the words to search for:
-Joe Montana
-Drew Brees
-Shawn Andrews
-as Fan76 states Cowhers philosophy
I find a thread on this and it was this one..
http://www.steelersuniverse.com/foru...sting-numbers?
I don't know if there are others thread on this in the last few month?
My apologies, beast. I wasn’t referring to you. I was talking to the other guy... who has been bringing up Cowher for a few months now (but, ignoring replies).
I always enjoy the back-&-forth discussions with you.
Don't worry, I knew you weren't talking to me and yes I enjoy talking with you and with others on this board too!My apologies, beast. I wasn’t referring to you. I was talking to the other guy... who has been bringing up Cowher for a few months now (but, ignoring replies).
I always enjoy the back-&-forth discussions with you.
Six Rings has a version of history that no one else subscibes to. How can the Rooney's be cheap if the team is always capped out?
Welcome back Pbeast! I have a theory that your long absences are because your a globe trotting secret agent that periodically saves the world James Bond style.
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The Steelers have been basically maxing out the salary cap since its inception. I don't understand how they could have spent more money when they really couldn't. They always have minimal room under the cap every year as they spend as much as they can to improve the team.
Sure, if you want to believe that not re-signing O'Donnell was good for our Super Bowl window in the mid to late 1990s, keep living your dream. I won't wake you up.
Stewart submarined the Steelers in the AFC championship game with three interceptions vs. the Broncos if you care to remember. If O'Donnell was the quarterback, the Steelers probably go back to the super bowl. He sucked and was beaten out by the likes of Kent Graham.
But Rooney was too cheap to pay for O'Donnell and it took nearly 10 years to find better.
- - - Updated - - -
That's not the case. Rooney was tight fisted when if came to money in the early to mid 1990's. This could have happened before some of you were born, so I'm not surprised if you were not aware of it.
If you want an example, read below:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/flashback-steelers-only-spent-131m-for-entire-teams-salary-in-1990/
If it would be Rod Woodson, Kevin Greene or others it would be one thing, but Neil O'Donnell?! ... Please
He was only a game manager at best and the steelers had to pay like a franchise QB to keep him ... The mistake the steelers made at this position was not having a replacement and having had too much confidence in Kordell Stewart , who might have been a star in the NFL now but not in the 1990s.
I mean we can pretend that your version is a what happened, or we can look at the actual events.
1, Odonnell was signed to one of the largest FA contracts ever handed out. https://vault.si.com/vault/1996/03/1...stead-of-glory
2. Important to remember that the Steelers were within 1.5 million per year of the Jets offer. At the time, that was salary cap altering money.
3. From the SI article above: "If the Steelers had paid to keep O'Donnell, it would have been next to impossible to keep their defensive core--Brown, Levon Kirkland, Carnell Lake, Greg Lloyd and Woodson--intact."
4. The Odonnell deal was widely panned at the time and is now viewed as one of the worst contracts ever put out there: https://thesportsdrop.com/the-13-wor...n-nfl-history/; https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2016/0...gs-in-history/
5. who on the 1990 roster are you paying money to aside from Rod Woodson and Greg Llyod: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...990_roster.htm? Also there was no free agency, so if you didn't draft well (which they hadn't in awhile) was the owner just going to hand out $$$ to look awesome?
As mojoUW just posted, and I have posted in several threads: Cowher’s philosophy was to re-sign 4 or 5 of his defenders... versus signing one QB. I can’t argue with that philosophy.
I’m just glad that we’ve moved on from blaming Tomlin to blaming Dan Rooney... and, I can’t wait until start blaming Three Rivers Stadium.
Great search for that!
For O'Donnell, he was in the top 10 in nfl network for the worst free agent signing of all-time about 10 years ago, so it would have been a horrible idea to sign O'Donnell to a monster contract at this time!
If you wanted to pay a free agent QB, Cowher could have had Joe Montana for $3.5 million... but, we’ve already gone over that (in multiple threads that end exactly the same way).
Re-sign his defenders you say?As mojoUW just posted, and I have posted in several threads: Cowher’s philosophy was to re-sign 4 or 5 of his defenders... versus signing one QB. I can’t argue with that philosophy.
I’m just glad that we’ve moved on from blaming Tomlin to blaming Dan Rooney... and, I can’t wait until start blaming Three Rivers Stadium.
Like Kevin Green and Rod Woodson? Sure. The Steelers DID NOT Re-sign either. Both proved that had a lot left. Bad move. Wanna talk about Chad Brown while we are at it? We lost all three star defenders in free agency. While I would not call O'Donnell a star QB ( He did make a pro bowl as a Steeler ) , he was a decent player at his peak and we let him go after leading the team to the AFC championship game and the Super bowl. Who does that? Its not like we had a rising star behind him at quarterback.
Would you let the Qb go who took you to the AFC championship game and the super bowl in back to back seasons, with no plan B? A simple yes or no will do. Be honest.
Worry not Rooney, doesn't pay any bills here, you can speak your mind.
As for Tomlin, he has to make the playoffs this year. With a 7th playoff spot added in each conference there is no excuses. I think even MoJoUW would agree with that. Three seasons with no playoffs should = you're fired.
If Tomlin fails to make the playoffs this year, he's out of Pittsburgh. If he makes the playoffs but loses in round one, he's 3-7 in his last playoff games...Rooney might keep him.
Kevin Green had been signed by the steelers in the 1993 offseason as a free agent, so if Rooney was cheap in the 1990s they wouldn't have done that
The reason also that the steelers did not sign Rod Woodson after 1996 was because of his injury in 1995 and that the steelers thought he was no longer the same player as before ... it was a mistake, not a question of money
For Neil O'Donnell, read what Mojouw said in post number 19 in this thread ... The steelers had a great team, but the O'Donnell problem was not at its best in big time ... The steelers were in the AFC title game 2 years later with Kordell Stewart.
For 2020, if Ben is healthy and our defense continues to play at a high level (even if the turnovers are much lower) the steelers should make the playoffs easily, but if Ben is not healthy and our QB are playing like the worst of the NFL, it's going to be like 2019...
It was an accomplishment that the steelers were in the playoffs race until the very end in 2019 with a depleted offense and one of the worse in steelers history.
For the record in the playoffs, yes Tomlin could be better than he was in the last decade, but I'm sure he can be better...If we look at the head coaches who are in the same tier as Tomlin
Pete Carrol is 3-5 in his last 8 playoffs games
Sean Payton is 4-6 in his 10 playoff games since 2010 (Tomlin has 5 in this period) and that includes a loss against a 7-9 Seattle seahawks.
John Harbaugh has only 1 win playoffs since 2013
Even Andy Reid was 1-7 in playoffs games between 2008 to 2017 and that included a collapse against the colts in 2013 and against a very weak titans team in 2017.
My point is that every coach can have a bad period and nobody is perfect ... That doesn't mean that they are not great coaches and need to be fired everytime there are a disappointment...
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Just... No.
First, that was from 1990, not 1995. In those five years, something called the salary cap was put in place. In the 1995 season, the salary cap was $37.1 million dollars. The Steelers' payroll that year? 37.4 million. While other teams were way over the cap, they got caught the next year and had to start cutting money and players left, right, and center, which forced many teams to go the Steelers way after that and start signing in house.
By the way, in '95, Aikman earned 3.5 million. That was going to go up to 5+ million the next year. That same year, Neil O'Donnell made 2.8 million. The Steelers offered 3.15 million per season. The Jets signed him for what averaged out to be a 5 million a year contract. There is no way O'Donnell was close enough to Aikman in talent that he should be making within 15 percent of Aikman's salary.
In 1996, the Steelers had to restructure Olsavsky's contract in order to come in under the cap. He was the first Steelers player to ever have his contract restructured. But that also means the Steelers were right at the cap in 1996.
So, were the Steelers "cheap" coming into the 90s? Yes. But by 1995, the cap was in place and the Steelers had to pay league mandated money. And, they were at the cap pretty much from then on.
This is the worst attempt at reasoning I've seen today. And I've been evaluating stuff from college freshman working from home with no effort or interest level.
Steelers offered to resign Woodson at a pretty solid salary for a safety. He wanted to play CB. So he went to San Fran to CB. Then he signed with Baltimore to play....wait for it....safety.
Greene went bye bye because the Steelers wanted to start Gildon and Lloyd -- https://steelersdepot.com/2016/07/ke...panthers-1996/
Brown left for a combination of money and playing role. Steelers wanted him to stay inside and he wanted to play on the edge and be paid like a pass-rusher. They didn't see it that way.
For someone who contends to remember an almost encyclopedic amount of Steelers and NFL history, you get your facts and arguments wrong more often than not.
As to the QB thing - absolutely if he wanted to be one of the highest paid players in the league and he kinda actually sucks. No problem telling him to pound sand.
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Fine counterpoint. Lots of meat in this thread.
All Defense!
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Pretty much.
This really isn't that hard. I don't understand why he doesn't get it.
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