Gildon replaced Greene.Originally Posted by Six Rings
Cowher begged Woodson to switch to FS. Woodson demanded to play CB. So they parted ways.
The Steelers stuck with Lloyd over Brown. It turned out to be the wrong choice.
Would I let that QB go? I answered that very clearly. Scroll up...
And, your man-crush (Harbaugh) hasn’t won a playoff game since 2013.
Even Pat Korean, the GM who signed O’Donnell, has said that the contract and decision to sign O’Donnell to that contract wasn’t ideal.
Cowher had a “Plan-B” in place...it was called Kordell Stewart while keeping the defense intact.
Enthroned Into The Good Old Boys Club - 2024
Considering that if we retroactively enact the 7th playoff spot, Tomlin never misses the playoffs in his tenure...if he misses this year is that 1 or 3? Because if missing the playoffs is only a cardinal sin because the 7th spot makes it "easy" then it can not be 1 and 3 at the same time. Unless it is Schrodinger's Playoffs or maybe that'd be Hesienberg's Uncertainty Seeding? I will look into it...
Also, using hindsight to evaluate a plan or a sequence of events isn't the same as an organization not having one. For instance, the Steelers planned on using the cap $$$ not spent on Neil "I thought Larry Brown was on OUR Side" Odonnell to resign Woodson, Brown, and Greene. For a variety of reasons, those players did not want to take that $$$ because there were conflicts over roles. Now, in hindsight, Gildon over Greene was a bad decision in the short term and likely also in the long term. We could debate that in detail. Lloyd over Brown - also maybe bad? Although injuries wrecked both guys careers in short order. Woodson leaving to play CB? Rod was wrong on that one and even he has admitted it. Too lazy to look it up right now.
It is the same with the QB. Just because Stewart didn't pan out; doesn't mean there wasn't a plan. A plan being good, bad, or mediocre does not negate its existence. Now, if you are arguing that the Steelers should've redirected $$$ to Odonnell and away from the defense - fine. But the way your constructing your current house of cards is illogical at least and kinda crazy-pants at worst.
Gildon replaced Green? Funny!Gildon replaced Greene.
Cowher begged Woodson to switch to FS. Woodson demanded to play CB. So they parted ways.
The Steelers stuck with Lloyd over Brown. It turned out to be the wrong choice.
Would I let that QB go? I answered that very clearly. Scroll up...
And, your man-crush (Harbaugh) hasn’t won a playoff game since 2013.
Woodson left because the Steelers didn't offer him a long term deal. The Steelers offered Woodson a one year deal for 3 million. That's it. You can look it up. Rooney who signs the checks let a hall of fame player and one of our best ever go...in his prime.
Let me guess, you are okay with losing both players. Is there some sort of homer hat posters get after then pass 5,000 posts? You wear it 24x7.
Lloyd and Brown played different positions, Rooney was too cheap to keep Chad. You got that one right, if we could only keep one, the Steelers made the wrong choice.
I have no man crush on Harbaugh, I just think he's a fine football coach.
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Stewart was not on the team when the Steelers let O'Donnell go. He was a 2nd round pick in a draft. That's hardly a plan. I do think Cowher should have moved on from Stewart sooner than he did. It was only when XFL player Tommy Maddox outshined him that Kordell was benched for good.
As for keeping the defense intact, that would mean Keeping Rod Woodson, and Kevin Greene. Maybe the people who donate to the board get a pair of rose-colored glasses that conceal the evidence and results of what happened.
Do you really not check facts AT ALL? O’Donnell and Stewart played in the Super Bowl together. Were you not born then.
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Last edited by Hawkman; 04-14-2020 at 11:02 PM.
Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap….
And Stewart was with the steelers in 1995.
Stewart I think, even started at QB once in 95 when O’Donnell was hurt.
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I remember clearly when the Steelers let Woodson walk it was because they were concerned about his injury healing properly and him having enough left in the tank following rehab. In hindsight, Woodson chose wisely. His personal athletic expectations did not materialize as a CB, but he did win a Super Bowl out of it and became a world class, finesse S.
All Defense!
This is absolutely hilarious! On one hand we have documented facts, events, and statements. On the other hand we have a self-constructed fantasy world. Dude, Six Rings, just go back to copying and pasting other peoples posts -- at least those made sense!
Greene is on the record saying he was told that Gildon was replacing him in the starting line-up and the Steelers envisioned him finishing his career as a rotational pass-rusher.
Brown wanted to play the same position as Lloyd - outside pass rusher. In his best season as a Steeler, he did due to injury. Seattle offered him the opportunity to play more on the edge albeit in a different system. Again, these are facts and not filtered perceptions.
Woodson wanted to play CB. The Steelers were only willing to offer him a "prove it" deal for CB. They didn't think he could still play the position at a high level. They basically begged him to switch to FS and talk to them about a longer term deal. He said "nah". The fact that a year later he was on a third team and switching positions kinda demonstrates that the Steelers were correct, Woodson wasn't worth a big $$$ long-term deal at CB. He was at FS, but, at the time of the contract offer, Rod wasn't ready to admit he had to make the switch. This isn't some fantasy that the rest of the MB made up. Most of us remember when it happened.
Maybe I just hallucinated Stewart's rush attempts in the SB? Oh. No. Wait. you're just wrong -- https://www.pro-football-reference.c.../gamelog/post/
No,The steelers would keep all of his players if Rooney was not too cheap!...So what the salary cap!
I guess it helps explain why St. Cowher doesn't have more victories and championships. It was all because the cheap owner was holding him back. No idea what the need to rewrite history is here.No,The steelers would keep all of his players if Rooney was not too cheap!
I thought we left the "Rooney's are cheap" storyline back in the past. But cool to see an old internet favorite revived. Like some sort of zombie from message boards of the past.
I remember he was the fastest to ever recover from that injury. No one thought he would be well/fit enough for the playoffs. Showed everyone wrong. But, I never heard one resentful word from him about the decision to let him go. I’m just sorry he didn’t end his career with Steelers.
And the worst part when you,Teegre and 86ward get the facts out, he says we have rose-colored glasses or things like that!
If you want a cheap owner,look at Mike Brown with the Bengals.This is so stupid to say that Rooney was cheap when the steelers were so close in the salary cap.
FACT: Like it or not, the Steelers’ plan was for their R2 pick to take over for the aging free agent. They weren’t going to keep both.
OPINION: Like many others who watched the young Gildon, we were hopeful that he’d be able to take over for Greene.
FACT: Cowher begged Woodson to play FS. Woodson felt he could still play CB. It was a mutual parting of the ways.
OPINION: I cannot blame Woodson for wanting to play CB.
FACT: When Lloyd was injured, Brown switched to OLB for a year. If you had actually watched the Steelers back then, you’d know this. They weren’t going to keep both.
OPINION: Lloyd was a legend; he was the “heart” choice (Brown was probably the smarter choice).
FACT: Stewart was in the roster in 1995. Again, if you had actually watched the Steelers back then, you’d know this.
OPINION: Scroll up.
FACT: They do not pass out “rose-colored glasses”.
OPINION: You’re not very good at this.
SUMMATION:
I’ll give you credit: when you got caught cutting-&-pasting, at least you tried switching up your M.O. That said, making stuff up... not better.
Then they proceeded to find someone far worse in Grbac.The Ravens let Dilfer go because he wasn't good. In their super bowl year he had 12 TD's 11 INT's.
The Ravens spent the rest of the decade searching for a quarterback until they found Flacco, who even then was questionable. Shannon Sharpe and Ray Lewis were very vocal about it and went on record to say letting Dilfer walk after 2000 was a mistake.
The QB revolving door is a tempting mistress. It calls and beckons to make a change. "You can do better" it always says. Sometimes you strike gold and find a Mahomes, but the rest of the time, you'll have the Browns QB jersey list.
But it was still the right decision by the ravens to try to find a better QB than Dilfer .... It's just that they were unable to find one before 2008 with Flacco ... Even if Flacco was not perfect , he had his moments and was able to step up when it was time.
Kyle Boller's experience was a disaster but no way they would have won or be close from winning another super bowl with Trent Dilfer....Given only 10 points per game in regular season and 23 points in 4 games in the playoffs like ravens defense did in 2000 it only happens once in our life!
Okay, Kordell was a rookie and used as a Wide receiver. I don't think Stewart threw one pass for the super bowl. In fact he completed just 5 passes in his entire rookie year. When the Steeler declined to match the Jets offer, Tomzack started in 1996. Stewart was hardly a plan B after O'Donnell left, that was Tomzack, and he sucked. In the 1996 season, Stewart completed 11 passes our of 30 attempts. That's it.
When Stewart took over in 1997, he was petty poor. Just 53.3% of his passes completed and he threw 17 Interceptions, later sinking us with 18-36 passing day with 3 interceptions and a fumble lost vs the Broncos. Thes Steelers ran the ball well for 161 yards, but asking any team to overcome 4 turnovers by a quarterback is too much. Had the Steelers Kept O'Donell, they are back in the Super Bowl. But Rooney was too cheap.
I've been watching Steeler football since the 1970's.
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FACT: Like it or not, the Steelers’ plan was for their R2 pick to take over for the aging free agent. They weren’t going to keep both.
OPINION: Like many others who watched the young Gildon, we were hopeful that he’d be able to take over for Greene.
FACT: Cowher begged Woodson to play FS. Woodson felt he could still play CB. It was a mutual parting of the ways.
OPINION: I cannot blame Woodson for wanting to play CB.
FACT: When Lloyd was injured, Brown switched to OLB for a year. If you had actually watched the Steelers back then, you’d know this. They weren’t going to keep both.
OPINION: Lloyd was a legend; he was the “heart” choice (Brown was probably the smarter choice).
FACT: Stewart was in the roster in 1995. Again, if you had actually watched the Steelers back then, you’d know this.
OPINION: Scroll up.
FACT: They do not pass out “rose-colored glasses”.
OPINION: You’re not very good at this.
SUMMATION:
I’ll give you credit: when you got caught cutting-&-pasting, at least you tried switching up your M.O. That said, making stuff up... not better.
Cough cough BS. Woodson wanted a multi year deal. The Steelers didn't offer one, just a 1 year deal. And just like that we lost one of our best players ever. Stop living in the Matrix.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
I'm going to stay civil, but I can't believe you don't realize that the NFL with a salary cap since at least 1994 and the steelers were very close in the salary cap .... You can't exceed a salary cap ... I don't know what you don't understand in that, it's not baseball !!!!
Our roster would also have been much weaker in 1997 if the steelers would have given a big contract to Neil O'Donnell and O'Donnell as we have seen with other teams is not a QB which can carry a team, much less in the AFC title game because of its play ...
Stewart's game against Denver was not much worse than O'Donnell's game against the Cowboys, a game he gave the super bowl MVP to Larry Brown that helped Brown get a monster contract with the raiders at this time.At least Kordell can run….
But hey, Rooney was too cheap, even if you can't exceed a salary cap!
Guys, give it up. You can't argue with stupid. Especially that particular kind of stupid that's too dumb to realize when they're wrong.
Plus, he's watched Steelers football since the 70s. What more proof do you need that he knows it all?
Ok. I know I said to stop. But this might be the most entertaining thing I got going on right now. Take a look at this statement:
"...later sinking us with 18-36 passing day with 3 interceptions and a fumble lost vs the Broncos. Thes Steelers ran the ball well for 161 yards, but asking any team to overcome 4 turnovers by a quarterback is too much. Had the Steelers Kept O'Donell, they are back in the Super Bowl. But Rooney was too cheap."
Just look at how glorious it is! I mean there is a ton going on there. But let's just stick to my favorite part - how Stewart's turnovers prevented an otherwise great team and, one can only assume, amazing coach, from reaching their Super Bowl destiny. OK! Let's grant him that hypothesis. Dude's answer is to retain the QB who turned the ball over 3 times in the SB! That guy was going to lead you to the promised land? C'mon. You aren't even being consistent. If the biggest problem with Stewart was turnovers in big games against good defenses...well ol' Neil will see your bet and raise you one. Odonnell throws one less INT in that SB and there is not a hard to imagine version where the Steelers pull off the upset victory.
Dude has got to be one of the weirdest posters we have ever had. How do you even define "cheap" in the salary cap era? Not spending to the cap? Or, as it appears, not signing Six Rings favorite QB?
I can totally get behind the idea that Tomzcak and Stewart were bad QB succession plans but the idea that Neil Odonnell would've held down the turnovers in big games so the Steelers could win...sweet lord...that's was his whole jam!
For once you are “kind of” correct.
Woodson wanted a multi-year deal as a CB. (correct) The Steelers wanted him to play FS. Rod refused to switch positions.
So, the Steelers offered a one-year deal as a CB. (correct) Woodson balked... and, took a one-year deal with the Niners (one of the few teams to offer him any sort of deal).
After that one year with the Niners, Rod came to his senses... and switched to FS. Alas, it was with the Ravens.
QUESTIONS:
Where were the teams lined up to sign Woodson to play CB? Are the other owners just as “cheap” as Dan Rooney???
SUMMATION:
It was a mutual parting of the ways. And, it turns out that the Steelers were correct to ask Rod to play FS. But, you should already know that... if you actually watched the Steelers back then.
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I read a quote a while back(2 maybe 3 seasons ago) where Haden said he expects to eventually make the switch to FS. Haden just celebrated turning 31. I wonder if the Steelers are looking at CB rather than Safety this draft from that very perspective. Haden to FS allows Fitz more freedom to roam and Edmunds to play from the box/NB position. According to contract details Haden becomes a FA after 2020. IF...Winfield is not available at 49, Steelers change direction and go for a CB(not necessarily at 49) and plan to move Haden in 2021???
I think Haden become a free agent after the 2021 season.
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One last BIG paycheck before retirement?
Maybe, maybe not.
It will depend on how he will play next year and the year after ... At his age, you have to take it year to year
Very shortly you have to start restocking the CB spot on the roster. Haden, Hilton, and Sutton are all 2021 FA's. You can keep 2 of the 3. If for no other reason than either Hilton or Sutton is going to try and force their way to another team to play more snaps. So that means your 2021 CBs project as Nelson and Layne on the outside. Hilton or Sutton in the slot and Haden is the wildcard.
Do you pay Haden on some sort of year to year and have him start until he can't anymore? That leaves you potentially very unsure about Layne's abilities and development.
Do you move Haden to safety? If so, does that actually make things worse? Move MF out of FS and maybe he is less impactful. Would Haden be any good as a FS? Not a guarantee.
At some point they have to have a "plan" -- whatever it may be. I suspect that the plan was to move Haden to FS. Maybe sooner than anyone thought because they let Sean Davis walk. Then MF arrived and likely changed a bunch. Heck, MF roaming around at FS may let Haden be an effective outside CB for a few extra years.
One thought is play Haden in Charles Woodson's old role with GB. Where he just roams around and creates havoc. Might work. Although not sure how Haden is attacking the line of scrimmage...
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That is the interesting thing moving forward with this defense. Having movable pieces like Haden, Fitz, and Edmunds in the secondary combined with Sutton who can play inside and outside. Hilton is great in the middle and has moved to safety at times as well. Layne is supposedly the backup for Haden and the hopeful replacement. Like PB suggested, if Haden decides to hit FA after 2020 he may be a loss due to wanting too much money. I don't see CB as a pick this season but maybe some big FA move after the draft?
I could see them taking a CB in the draft. This draft is shaping up to a be a Colbert BPA special. A couple "what! I didn't see that coming picks." and a few "he was just by far the best athlete/player left on our board" picks.
You could argue it is NT, but really there aren't any "must fill" spots on the top 14 guys on either side of the ball. Most of the draft picks made this year are for depth and 2021 forward. Whenever Colbert has been in that position before, he hangs a few odd picks on the board.
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You are correct. And that possibility always makes me smile. When Colbert can just go fill out the roster with guys he deems "Steelers guys" good things happen more often than not. Blue chip OL, off the radar star WR, or putting this thread back on track, how about a small school big armed QB.
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