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Thread: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

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    Senior Member Array title="polamalubeast has a reputation beyond repute">

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    Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Rank his head coach

    John Harbaugh
    Mike McCarthy
    Sean Payton
    Pete Carroll



    His head coach have all won a super bowl in their first 5 years in their career but after they had a few disappointments but they are still considered among the best HC in the NFL.They are also with their current team(except for McCarthy) since at least 2006

    I make an exception with Mike McCarthy since he has a very similar resume than the others and I don't put Tomlin in that despite a similar resume since his thread always ends badly!

    I don't put Andy Reid and Belichick in this since they are the only two current HCs that are locked for the HOF.

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    Re: Rank his head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Pete Carroll: Helped keep the Seahawks winning and making the playoffs after losing almost all of his defensive veterans in a short amount of time (even if Russell Wilson has a big role in that)

    John Harbaugh: Impressed how he went 14-2 after all the defensive veterans he lost the prior offseason. His coaching also helped lift his glorified RB to be named unanimous NFL MVP.

    Sean Payton: He may have run into some bad luck recently but playcalling mistakes he's made helped contribute to the last 2 home playoff defeats. Also don't think Harbaugh and Carroll would have gone 7-9 3 straight seasons with Drew Brees

    Mike McCarthy: Carried by Aaron Rodgers and before him Brett Favre his entire career. Underachieved with Rodgers and his teams often fell to crap without Rodgers at the helm

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    Re: Rank his head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Who is “his”?

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    Re: Rank his head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Who is “his”?
    Sorry, the English is not my first language so it will happen again to make mistakes like that!

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Rank his head coach

    John Harbaugh
    Mike McCarthy
    Sean Payton
    Pete Carroll



    His head coach have all won a super bowl in their first 5 years in their career but after they had a few disappointments but they are still considered among the best HC in the NFL.They are also with their current team(except for McCarthy) since at least 2006

    I make an exception with Mike McCarthy since he has a very similar resume than the others and I don't put Tomlin in that despite a similar resume since his thread always ends badly!

    I don't put Andy Reid and Belichick in this since they are the only two current HCs that are locked for the HOF.
    I Agree thar Reid and Belicheck are locks for the Hall of fame as the for other coaches who each won a super bowl, here's how I'd rank them:

    1 ) Harbaugh to me is an excellent football coach. His teams over achieve, and I can't stand the Ravens.
    2 ) Payton, at least from an X's an O's perspective. If the Saints GM could draft a defense...
    3 ) McCarthy. His teams won playoff games in many seasons.
    4 ) Carrol. Carrol's bone headed decision not to run Lynch on the goal line probably cost Seattle the super bowl.

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    A mixture of facts and personal bias.

    1. Pete Carroll
    For what he did in the community around USC, he’s easily #1. I love that man. (That would be personal bias.) He drafted great when he was able to basically draft the guys that he had recruited while at USC. After that, he struggled for a little bit... but now, he’s found his groove again. His defense has been top-notch for a decade. Again, he’s easily my #1.

    2. John Harbaugh
    I cannot stand his whining. He complains about every single play. He’s knowledgeable, and I feel he’s an excellent coach... but, I’d never want him as my HC.

    3. Sean Payton
    He is great with X’s & O’s. People say that having Drew Brees has helped, but IMO, one hand washes the other. I don’t think he’s as good of an “overall” coach as Harbaugh, but I’d gladly take Payton.

    4. Mike McCarthy
    Meh

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    I’d say Carroll, Harbaugh and Payton are close to even, but McCarthy a distant 4th.

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    I’d say Carroll, Harbaugh and Payton are close to even, but McCarthy a distant 4th.
    That's my take as well.

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    A mixture of facts and personal bias.

    1. Pete Carroll
    For what he did in the community around USC, he’s easily #1. I love that man. (That would be personal bias.) He drafted great when he was able to basically draft the guys that he had recruited while at USC. After that, he struggled for a little bit... but now, he’s found his groove again. His defense has been top-notch for a decade. Again, he’s easily my #1.

    2. John Harbaugh
    I cannot stand his whining. He complains about every single play. He’s knowledgeable, and I feel he’s an excellent coach... but, I’d never want him as my HC.

    3. Sean Payton
    He is great with X’s & O’s. People say that having Drew Brees has helped, but IMO, one hand washes the other. I don’t think he’s as good of an “overall” coach as Harbaugh, but I’d gladly take Payton.

    4. Mike McCarthy
    Meh

    Seattle might have the best GM in football, John Schneider. Imo Carroll is lucky to have him.

    In January 2010, the Seahawks announced the hiring of Pete Carroll as head coach, and the Seahawks then hired Schneider one week later. Schneider works in collaboration with Pete Carroll overseeing all of football operations.
    Since arriving, Schneider and Carroll have orchestrated a complete overhaul of Seattle's roster. In 2010, Schneider completed 284 roster transactions, including trading for Marshawn Lynch.[3] On February 2, 2014, the Seahawks won Super Bowl XLVIII, their first championship in their existence. Of those on the championship roster, only Max Unger, Red Bryant, Jon Ryan and Brandon Mebane were Seahawks prior to Schneider's arrival in Seattle. Schneider and Seattle followed their Super Bowl win with another NFC Championship, but lost to New England in Super Bowl XLIX. In 2015, the Seahawks clinched a wild card berth, but fell in the NFC Divisional Round to the Panthers. Schneider signed a 5-year contract extension with the Seahawks in July 2016 that keeps him in Seattle through the 2021 season. The Seahawks won their fourth NFC West title under Schneider in 2016, but were eliminated in the divisional round of the playoffs for the second straight year.
    Schneider has been praised for his late-round draft picks and undrafted free agent signings. With Seattle, he drafted Russell Wilson, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Tyler Lockett, and KJ Wright in the third round or later, and signed Doug Baldwin, Thomas Rawls, and Jermaine Kearse after they went undrafted. The Seahawks have been active in free agency and the trade market under Schneider as well, signing key free agents Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril, and trading for Jimmy Graham.
    In August 2019, traded with the Texans giving Barkevious Mingo, Jacob Martin and a third round pick for pass rusher Jadeveon Clowney,[4] getting a compensatory third round pick back if he signs with other team on the 2020 free agency.
    Wiki link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S...all_executive)

    Six Ring's take: Since Schneider took over in 2010, Seattle has drafted ten pro bowl players.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Seahawks_draft_history#2016_draft

    And his cap management is very good. With a talented roster, John Schneider has plenty or room to make moves. Take note he doesn't have many dead money guys or over pay for older veterans on the decline. They currently have 14 million in cap space, does any team with a better record have more? This guy is a Rock Star GM.

    https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    I think Pete Carroll has some power in the team decisions ... Schneider and Carroll arrived in Seattle at the same time, so they work together and the two have about the same power.

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Schneider is good at his job. But he isn't this towering figure that everyone makes him out to be. 7 of those 10 Pro Bowlers were basically guys that Carroll recruited and told the team to draft because he knew they would do well in his system. Another one was a punter. And then Frank Clark and Tyler Lockett. Lockett might be the only one on that entire list of 10 Pro Bowl draft picks that Schneider really could get sole credit for. The rest, are either primarily on Carroll or were Russell Wilson and Frank Clark.

    Also, as to the cap thing. When you run your entire defensive core out of town (Sherman and Thomas and Bruce Irvin) and trade your expensive pass rusher (Frank Clark), well than cap space is pretty easy to find. That is like 30 million or more in contracts right there. Prior to that, they afforded everyone because Wilson was playing on a laughably cheap rookie deal.

    Again, Scheider is good but he isn't some savant with a real knack for this. They had 3 draft classes where Carroll basically knew these guys would excel in his system. Add in Wilson and then they rode that to success.

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    Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Sean Payton is the NFC version of Mike Tomlin and Todd Haley rolled into one. Payton runs his offenses to precision but then, like Haley and Tomlin, he tries to throw a trick play at the most in opportune time and winds up screwing up Drew Brees’ rhythm.

    In the last 10 seasons, the cream of the crop are Belichick, Reid, Carroll, Tomlin, Payton and Harbaugh in no particular order. McCarthy isn’t up there with those other guys. He’s just not
    IMO. After that, it’s all just middle ground stuff and then the bottom of the barrels: Adam Gase, Bill O’Brien, Jason Garrett...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Sean Payton is the NFC version of Mike Tomlin and Todd Haley rolled into one. Payton runs his offenses to precision but then, like Haley and Tomlin, he tries to throw a trick play at the most in opportune time and winds up screwing up Drew Brees’ rhythm.

    In the last 10 seasons, the cream of the crop are Belichick, Reid, Carroll, Tomlin, Payton and Harbaugh in no particular order. McCarthy isn’t up there with those other guys. He’s just not
    IMO. After that, it’s all just middle ground stuff and then the bottom of the barrels: Adam Gase, Bill O’Brien, Jason Garrett...

    I would add Marvin Lewis in the bottom of the barrels!

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    I’d say Carroll, Harbaugh and Payton are close to even, but McCarthy a distant 4th.
    Yes, I agree and I think that Tomlin is in the same tier that Carroll, Harbaugh and Payton.Close to even!

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Schneider is good at his job. But he isn't this towering figure that everyone makes him out to be. 7 of those 10 Pro Bowlers were basically guys that Carroll recruited and told the team to draft because he knew they would do well in his system. Another one was a punter. And then Frank Clark and Tyler Lockett. Lockett might be the only one on that entire list of 10 Pro Bowl draft picks that Schneider really could get sole credit for. The rest, are either primarily on Carroll or were Russell Wilson and Frank Clark.

    Also, as to the cap thing. When you run your entire defensive core out of town (Sherman and Thomas and Bruce Irvin) and trade your expensive pass rusher (Frank Clark), well than cap space is pretty easy to find. That is like 30 million or more in contracts right there. Prior to that, they afforded everyone because Wilson was playing on a laughably cheap rookie deal.

    Again, Scheider is good but he isn't some savant with a real knack for this. They had 3 draft classes where Carroll basically knew these guys would excel in his system. Add in Wilson and then they rode that to success.
    None the pro bowl player drafted came from USC, so how would Carroll know them well? He wouldn't. Schneider is a top GM. He gets high marks for the draft, cap management and trades. That's impressive. Don't say oh but one of those players was a punter. Look at who he is and tell me you would not rather have that punter and spent a 5th round pick or keep the very sub par and highly paid Berry.

    Give it another year, he have 11 pro bowl players drafted in 11 years. DK Metcalf is likely next. Finding 10 pro bowl players for the past 10 years in the draft is something very few if any GM's can boast.

    Many coaches think player XYZ can fit in their system It doesn't always work out that way. I'm sure the Steelers thought Jones and Burns would fit.

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    The steelers have drafted a lot of pro bowl caliber player in the last 10 years so...

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    None the pro bowl player drafted came from USC, so how would Carroll know them well? He wouldn't. Schneider is a top GM. He gets high marks for the draft, cap management and trades. That's impressive. Don't say oh but one of those players was a punter. Look at who he is and tell me you would not rather have that punter and spent a 5th round pick or keep the very sub par and highly paid Berry.

    Give it another year, he have 11 pro bowl players drafted in 11 years. DK Metcalf is likely next. Finding 10 pro bowl players for the past 10 years in the draft is something very few if any GM's can boast.

    Many coaches think player XYZ can fit in their system It doesn't always work out that way. I'm sure the Steelers thought Jones and Burns would fit.
    Not all these years yielded Pro Bowl players. It is widely documented and discussed that Carroll had recruited/studied almost all of the defensive core while he was at USC. Whether or not they went to that school or USC offered them is not the point. Carroll leveraged his knowledge of specific college players over 2-3 year period to draft guys that he was highly familiar with and knew were "locks" for his particular defensive system.

    Is it a great achievement and an amazing blueprint for building a winner? Absolutely, but it isn't like Schneider had some golden touch. The deck was stacked in their favor because they had MORE knowledge than most of the other teams.

    Again, this is not some crack-pot theory that I cooked up. It is all over the interwebs.

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Not all these years yielded Pro Bowl players. It is widely documented and discussed that Carroll had recruited/studied almost all of the defensive core while he was at USC. Whether or not they went to that school or USC offered them is not the point. Carroll leveraged his knowledge of specific college players over 2-3 year period to draft guys that he was highly familiar with and knew were "locks" for his particular defensive system.

    Is it a great achievement and an amazing blueprint for building a winner? Absolutely, but it isn't like Schneider had some golden touch. The deck was stacked in their favor because they had MORE knowledge than most of the other teams.

    Again, this is not some crack-pot theory that I cooked up. It is all over the interwebs.

    Correct. When Carroll was head coach at USC, he had his years of recruiting to fall back on. In big programs, they already have eyes on top prospects when they are in their early teens. College coaches have intimate knowledge of top recruits from around the entire country.....not just the players that went to USC. USC's recruiting base was literally the entire country. That gave Carroll probably a solid 8 years of info on players, including the stuff NFL teams need to dig for.....like a kid's background....or his parental situation...work ethic.....leadership.......maybe his brushes with the law.....his personality traits before he was influenced by other coaching......etc...etc... It can't be overstated.

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    As I stated in my post, and mojoUW iterated, and pczach has mentioned as well... Carroll deserves a lot of credit for those early drafts. That’s not to say that the other guy is t a great GM... but, Carroll having input/hitting on those players has been documented for almost a decade.

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Not all these years yielded Pro Bowl players. It is widely documented and discussed that Carroll had recruited/studied almost all of the defensive core while he was at USC. Whether or not they went to that school or USC offered them is not the point. Carroll leveraged his knowledge of specific college players over 2-3 year period to draft guys that he was highly familiar with and knew were "locks" for his particular defensive system.

    Is it a great achievement and an amazing blueprint for building a winner? Absolutely, but it isn't like Schneider had some golden touch. The deck was stacked in their favor because they had MORE knowledge than most of the other teams.

    Again, this is not some crack-pot theory that I cooked up. It is all over the interwebs.
    As the head coach, Carrol sees 100's of people in recruiting. If they don't sign with him, he doesn't work with them. That is the point. Not one of the pro bowl players went to USC. Keep in mind he's seeing high school prospects, not finished college players. There is a huge gap of difference, and no scout, GM or Head coach would dare go off a high school or recurring service evaluation for the NFL draft.

    At best Carrol deserve just some credit. Schneider get the lions share. A GM who can draft, manage the cap, and come up with solid trades. Dude is a rare talent. He built it, it wasn't handed to him.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    The steelers have drafted a lot of pro bowl caliber player in the last 10 years so...

    Yes they have. If the Pro Football Hall of Fame understood the importance of a GM, Colbert would be a Golden jacket guy once he retires. But they view GM's like Kicker and Punters. Colbert has done a good job with the draft, it's the cap and free agency where he often comes up short. For whatever reason Colbert is really bad at picking DB', and selects guys with character issues, and not it not just Bell and Brown. He also had way to many goofy picks that you just know won't pan out such as Archer, and Jones.

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    As cap management, Colbert is one of the best for bypass the cap!

    I mean, the steelers rarely lost great players because they were in the cap hell .... Colbert struggle to draft for the DB but at least he was good in that in the free agent at this position in the last couple years with Nelson and Haden

    No GM is perfect and the thing I would like for Colbert would be to know when to let a player go ... I wish he had trade Bell during the 2018 offseason when it was obvious that his price was too high

    But Colbert is 205-113-2 in 20 years, so it's very impressive and one of the most underrated GM in the NFL ... For the character issues, the last time the steelers drafted one was in 2014 with Martavis Bryant.

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    As the head coach, Carrol sees 100's of people in recruiting. If they don't sign with him, he doesn't work with them. That is the point. Not one of the pro bowl players went to USC. Keep in mind he's seeing high school prospects, not finished college players. There is a huge gap of difference, and no scout, GM or Head coach would dare go off a high school or recurring service evaluation for the NFL draft.

    At best Carrol deserve just some credit. Schneider get the lions share. A GM who can draft, manage the cap, and come up with solid trades. Dude is a rare talent. He built it, it wasn't handed to him.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Yes they have. If the Pro Football Hall of Fame understood the importance of a GM, Colbert would be a Golden jacket guy once he retires. But they view GM's like Kicker and Punters. Colbert has done a good job with the draft, it's the cap and free agency where he often comes up short. For whatever reason Colbert is really bad at picking DB', and selects guys with character issues, and not it not just Bell and Brown. He also had way to many goofy picks that you just know won't pan out such as Archer, and Jones.
    Schneider is super over-rated in my opinion. And that is just my opinion. In draft classes not buoyed by Carroll's knowledge -- he has a less than stellar track record. In terms of managing the cap, how good is he? Sure he signed a bunch of star defensive players when he didn't have to pay for a QB. Welcome to what every single non-brain dead team does now in the NFL. Since he had to pay his QB, he has had to let Earl Thomas go. He traded an elite pass rusher rather than pay him. And now he can't sign the other impact defender he traded for.

    Here is others thoughts on Carroll's early drafts:

    https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/...ng-department/

    "For the third straight year, Carroll delivered on draft day." -- https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...in-the-process

    There are dozens and dozens of reports out there about how Carroll runs the player acquisition side of things and Schneider runs the contracts. There are other reports, and this is just one example, that Carroll was big on Sherman since he knew all about him from the recruiting and college game-planning process, etc. Knew Sherman was rated poorly pre-draft. And just waited to late to pick a guy he was certain would excel in his system. There are other stories. There is also the basic math of it all. In Carroll's first three drafts, the Seahawks record of not only hitting on picks, but hitting those picks out of the park is almost unbelievable. It is a multi-year run that fueled a SB champion and will go down in NFL history. But...notice how after Carroll's "advantage" of familiarity and knowledge about players evaporates because of his time away from the college game...the Seahawks are still good at drafting but not staggeringly, unbelievably, how is this happening good? Weird.

    Is the guy good at his job? Yup. Is he a stand-out in his field? I don't know. I would put him up there...but there are other guys that I think are just as good or better.

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Here’s a recorded discussion:

    SCOUT: I’m thinking about checking out cornerbacks.

    CARROLL: Focus on Stanford. Their recruiting class was above par. They give the PAC-12 fits.

    SCOUT: We need a couple of linebackers.

    CARROLL: There’s a kid from Cali named Bobby Wagner. Keep tabs on him at... uh... where did he end up??? Utah? BYU?

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    Re: Rank the head coaches with 10 or more years experience with their current team

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Here’s a recorded discussion:

    SCOUT: I’m thinking about checking out cornerbacks.

    CARROLL: Focus on Stanford. Their recruiting class was above par. They give the PAC-12 fits.

    SCOUT: We need a couple of linebackers.

    CARROLL: There’s a kid from Cali named Bobby Wagner. Keep tabs on him at... uh... where did he end up??? Utah? BYU?
    Here the video that Carroll knew much more than the others!

    The experts were so wrong, especially in Sherman, Wagner and Wilson!


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