Jameis Winston

[AtlantaDan]

Here’s a stat (from PFF... so, take it for what it’s worth):

Most turnover-worthy plays since 2006:

Winston (2019): 40
Palmer (2013): 40
Luck (2012): 40

What is the common denominator? Bruce Arians

The extent to which Arians has corrupted the quality of play in the NFL is nefarious and far reaching

EATD - Everything Arians Touches Dies

[Drazo85]

The extent to which Arians has corrupted the quality of play in the NFL is nefarious and far reaching

EATD - Everything Arians Touches Dies

Hopefully this translates to his new QB.

Gesendet von meinem Mi A1 mit Tapatalk

[DesertSteel]

Here’s a stat (from PFF... so, take it for what it’s worth):

Most turnover-worthy plays since 2006:

Winston (2019): 40
Palmer (2013): 40
Luck (2012): 40

What is the common denominator? Bruce Arians

That’s fascinating. Of course, Winston was already a turnover machine before BA got there. Still fascinating.

[teegre]

Of course, Winston was already a turnover machine before BA got there.

Was he though? Really. His INTs were never great, but I know of another “big bodied” QB with similar stats.

One QB had these stats:
16, 14, 13, 16 ... 59 total INTs

The other QB had these stats:
14, 11, 18, 15 ... 58 total INTs

Based off of INTs alone, which one would you take?

[DesertSteel]

Was he though? Really. His INTs were never great, but I know of another “big bodied” QB with similar stats.

One QB had these stats:
16, 14, 13, 16 ... 59 total INTs

The other QB had these stats:
14, 11, 18, 15 ... 58 total INTs

Based off of INTs alone, which one would you take?

You make a very good point. His average INTs were 14.5 per season for 4 years, then with BA he doubled it to 30. If Winston had thrown 14 INTs last year he would have gotten scooped up the first day of FA.

[pczach]

The extent to which Arians has corrupted the quality of play in the NFL is nefarious and far reaching

EATD - Everything Arians Touches Dies

If only a Kangol can die....

[Craic]

Would I take him over Rudy and Hodges as the back up, quick answer YES if he's getting paid what they are.

This. And a bit more. Right now, Rudy is around a 1 million dollar cap hit for the year. I'd be willing to take Winston at a two or three million cap hit (if we can fit it in under the cap. I wouldn't take him at the expense of another non-QB, however).

[teegre]

You make a very good point. His average INTs were 14.5 per season for 4 years, then with BA he doubled it to 30. If Winston had thrown 14 INTs last year he would have gotten scooped up the first day of FA.

If someone who knows how to coach discipline (I don’t know... maybe Belichick) gets his hands on Winston, and teaches him to simply “throw it away”, we could see one of the most notable “steals” of free agency.

[st33lersguy]

I have no interest in seeing Jamies Winston paired with Randy Fichtner. Talk about things getting ugly really quick

[polamalubeast]

Many were crazy and are still crazy that Ben led the league with 16 interception in 2018,so why not Winston with 30 last year!

- - - Updated - - -

Here’s a stat (from PFF... so, take it for what it’s worth):

Most turnover-worthy plays since 2006:

Winston (2019): 40
Palmer (2013): 40
Luck (2012): 40

What is the common denominator? Bruce Arians

Rookie Peyton Manning had also 28 interception with Bruce Arians as QB coach in his rookie season.Tim Couch had 21 interception in the first year with Bruce Arians as OC.Ben never throw over 15 interceptions in 5 years with Bruce Arians...Impressive!

[polamalubeast]

If it would be under 5 million, maybe I would think, but Winston wants a contract of at least 10-20 million and it's not worth it if it's only for a year.

30 interceptions is way too much ... Many were crazy when Ben had lead the league for the interceptions in 2018 with 16, but how can we accept a QB who has a 30 interceptions season in his career?

A great defense would be a bottom 10 scoring defense with Winston because of its 30 million interceptions.

- - - Updated - - -

Was he though? Really. His INTs were never great, but I know of another “big bodied” QB with similar stats.

One QB had these stats:
16, 14, 13, 16 ... 59 total INTs

The other QB had these stats:
14, 11, 18, 15 ... 58 total INTs

Based off of INTs alone, which one would you take?

I would like to see the INT% of Ben and Winston from 2015 to 2018.

[teegre]

I would like to see the INT% of Ben and Winston from 2015 to 2018.

Those are indeed the numbers.

[pczach]

Those are indeed the numbers.

I know those are Winston's and Ben's INT numbers, but I think they create a little bit of a false sense of who he is compared to Ben. These are the numbers from the years you are talking about 2015-2018:

Jameis had 88 TD's, 58 INT's, 14,646 yards in 1,922 attempts in that period, with a record of 21-33.

Ben had 112 TD's, 59 INT's, 17,137 yards in 2,214 attempts during that period, with a record of 38-17-1.



If we use Winston's 5 full season compared to Ben's last 5 full seasons(2014-2018):


Winston: Won/loss record of 28-42, 2548 attempts, 19,737 yards, 121 TD's, 88 INT's, 50 fumbles.

Ben: Won/loss record of 49-22-1, 2,822 attempts, 22,089 yards, 144 TD's, 68 INT's, 29 fumbles.


Here's what I believe about Winston. I think he's a guy that makes bad decisions. The year he was drafted, I said that I would never take him with a top 10 pick because he made too many bad decisions in college. The more people talked about him and praised him, the more reckless he was with the football. He simply turned the football over way too often with the talent around him. Not much has changed. He also fumbles at a very high rate and doesn't take care of it that way either.

He can flat-out throw the football. If he never had to read defenses and could just throw to open receivers, he's your guy. When he needs to make a lot of tight throws or use judgement to know when to make those tight throws or when to eat the football or throw it away, he has never shown that he can do that consistently well. Remember, he has lost many football games, and is often playing from behind or well behind. When a quarterback is in that situation, they are playing against much softer defenses and compiling stats under much easier conditions than quarterbacks on winning teams playing with a lead and facing tighter, more aggressive defenses. Also, his interception totals seem to be trending higher as the team has more talent around him....and that's not good.

I still think he is a talent, but he seems to be a guy that won't criticize his own play. He also has delusions of grandeur about his performances, and seems to have a problem accepting coaching. He's a guy I like at a cheap number because he can be a backup and show that he can learn to temper his impulsive throws before he is handed the reigns to anything. At the money he is looking to get, he is radioactive IMO. I wouldn't go anywhere near him for big money right now. With that said, if he ever figures it out, he could be a star....I just have a hard time believing he will anytime soon because his ego and his attitude get in the way of him being a selfless player. He always makes it about him and his numbers. There is much more to winning than numbers.

Ben has been winning tons of games his entire career because he understands how to win. It always helps having a good team around you, but great QBs make big plays in big moments of games. Whatever it takes. Sometimes not making the throw is the right play. Sometimes throwing it where only your guy has a chance to get it is the right play. Ben makes mistakes....all quarterbacks do. But he also has an entire career of making game-changing plays in crucial moments that win football games. Jameis hasn't shown the ability to elevate the play of everyone around him yet, and he turns the football over at an alarming rate with both INT's and fumbles. Maybe he will get it someday, but nothing he has done to this point says he will in the immediate future.

I hope he proves me wrong. He needs to mature a lot before he can learn to make adjustments.

[polamalubeast]

Thank pczach for this stats!

So if we judge the QB only on interception,this is very close between 2015 to 2018 but Ben had almost 300 more pass attempts that Winston and he has more fumbles.And it was before 2019 for Winston…

For me, I have always preferred a QB which is aggressive than a QB which is too conservative (Alex Smith or worse, Mariota) but in the case of Winston, its interceptions are too much out of control.

[pczach]

Thank pczach for this stats!

So if we judge the QB only on interception,this is very close between 2015 to 2018 but Ben had almost 300 more pass attempts that Winston and he has more fumbles.And it was before 2019 for Winston…

For me, I have always preferred a QB which is aggressive than a QB which is too conservative (Alex Smith or worse, Mariota) but in the case of Winston, its interceptions are too much out of control.

To simplify it. Ben had 274 more attempts. Ben threw for 2352 more yards....Ben threw 23 more TD passes.....Ben threw 20 less interceptions.....Ben had 21 less fumbles.....The Steelers won 21 more games when they both started.

I like a quarterback that is aggressive too. It is a fine balance living on that edge between forcing things and being too passive. You can live with some mistakes by a QB when you feel that most times he will make up for those mistakes with interest. Winston has just made too many mistakes at this point of his career.

[j-d-s]

Jameis clearly would be top-notch as a backup QB. He's shown that he can win games and certainly is way better than our current backup QBs.

All those INTs are not as bad with our D. Still bad, but if the INTs result in three-and-outs, they don't hurt as much as with a bad defense.

[polamalubeast]

If you had to choose between Newton and Winston at the same price,who would be your choice?

Cam Newton, Jameis Winston landing spots: As Patriots and others ignore them, here are six teams who shouldn't

Jason La Canfora


Pittsburgh Steelers

The Steelers found out the hard way that Duck Hodges and Mason Rudolph are not the answer at QB anytime soon. They have a 38-year old franchise QB who looks like Yukon Cornelius and is coming off major elbow surgery and has taken a lot of hits over the years, and did not look good the 1.5 games he played last year. I'd be trying to get one of these guys behind him, ASAP, even in a cap crunch.

read more

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/c...-who-shouldnt/

[cubanstogie]

I’d take Cam over Winston. Cam when healthy has actually played at elite level. Red rocket better than Winston IMO.

[Born2Steel]

I’d take Cam over Winston. Cam when healthy has actually played at elite level. Red rocket better than Winston IMO.

I would take Dalton over ANY backup currently on the Steelers roster.

[AtlantaDan]

Bill Cowher thinks that the Steelers 'would be a great fit' for Jameis Winston


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/b...ameis-winston/

[86WARD]

In a fantasy world where anyone of the three were affordable and could be had, I’d take Newton, Dalton, Winston in that order.

[DesertSteel]

Bill Cowher thinks that the Steelers 'would be a great fit' for Jameis Winston


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/b...ameis-winston/

Apparently, everyone in the media does. I do, however, give a little more respect to Cowher re all things Steelers.

[teegre]

@pczach Good stats breakdown

My thing is that if you take away the Arians season, Winston is pretty good. I’ll give Arians credit: he gets them “fearless”... and afterwards, the INT numbers do drop. So, I expect Winston to drop back to the 15 INT range. As far as his wins go, that’s a team stat (and, Tampa is a bad team).

Here’s how I think about it: between Bradshaw and Ben, I’d have killed for a guy like Winston. He’s better than anyone that we had during that era.

Is Winston as good as Bradshaw / Ben? No way.
Is Winston our next “franchise” QB? Probably not.
Once Ben retires, would o feel comfortable with Winston as my QB? Yes

It would tier it like this:
1. Ben/Bradshaw
...large gap...
3. Winston
...small gap...
4. Maddox
5. Brister, Stewart, The Unnamed One
8. every other schlep

[pczach]

@pczach Good stats breakdown

My thing is that if you take away the Arians season, Winston is pretty good. I’ll give Arians credit: he gets them “fearless”... and afterwards, the INT numbers do drop. So, I expect Winston to drop back to the 15 INT range. As far as his wins go, that’s a team stat (and, Tampa is a bad team).

Here’s how I think about it: between Bradshaw and Ben, I’d have killed for a guy like Winston. He’s better than anyone that we had during that era.

Is Winston as good as Bradshaw / Ben? No way.
Is Winston our next “franchise” QB? Probably not.
Once Ben retires, would o feel comfortable with Winston as my QB? Yes

It would tier it like this:
1. Ben/Bradshaw
...large gap...
3. Winston
...small gap...
4. Maddox
5. Brister, Stewart, The Unnamed One
8. every other schlep

Here's the thing. With everything I stated in my large post above, I know he is a guy that can light it up when put in the right system and with talent around him. I would love to have him as a backup, but not at $18 mil a year. It just doesn't work.

If Winston would bet on himself and be willing to play behind Ben for a reasonable number knowing he had a chance to step in if Ben went down, and likely get every shot to become the next guy in Pittsburgh....sign me up! I can certainly live with that guy as a backup. Sure, he could come in and throw 5 picks in any game, but he could also play lights out in spurts, and we will know once and for all if he is able to accept coaching and adjust his game to make better decisions to take care of the ball. He really needs to mature as a man. He just doesn't accept responsibility, and seems to have a distorted view of his own performances. If he can take that step, look out.

After a couple years, the team would know what the finished product looks like, and decide if he is good enough to build the team around to contend for championships with him at QB. If not, they use him as a bridge to the next guy, or they release him.

For me, It's all about the money to want him here.....and I'm afraid he's all about the money right now, and is expecting a fortune. I just don't see it....but I've been wrong before.

For the record, Tampa Bay may have the best offensive weapons in the entire NFL. They are sick at the skill positions. I really believe the team should have won more games than they did last year, and that Winston is a large part of the reason they didn't.....but he is intriguing as a backup with all the upside if he ever figures it out and grows up.

[polamalubeast]

@pczach Good stats breakdown

My thing is that if you take away the Arians season, Winston is pretty good. I’ll give Arians credit: he gets them “fearless”... and afterwards, the INT numbers do drop. So, I expect Winston to drop back to the 15 INT range. As far as his wins go, that’s a team stat (and, Tampa is a bad team).

Here’s how I think about it: between Bradshaw and Ben, I’d have killed for a guy like Winston. He’s better than anyone that we had during that era.

Is Winston as good as Bradshaw / Ben? No way.
Is Winston our next “franchise” QB? Probably not.
Once Ben retires, would o feel comfortable with Winston as my QB? Yes

It would tier it like this:
1. Ben/Bradshaw
...large gap...
3. Winston
...small gap...
4. Maddox
5. Brister, Stewart, The Unnamed One
8. every other schlep

I think you forget O'Donnell...Maybe the best steelers QB after Ben and Terry!

[teegre]

Here's the thing. With everything I stated in my large post above, I know he is a guy that can light it up when put in the right system and with talent around him. I would love to have him as a backup, but not at $18 mil a year. It just doesn't work.

If Winston would bet on himself and be willing to play behind Ben for a reasonable number knowing he had a chance to step in if Ben went down, and likely get every shot to become the next guy in Pittsburgh....sign me up! I can certainly live with that guy as a backup. Sure, he could come in and throw 5 picks in any game, but he could also play lights out in spurts, and we will know once and for all if he is able to accept coaching and adjust his game to make better decisions to take care of the ball. He really needs to mature as a man. He just doesn't accept responsibility, and seems to have a distorted view of his own performances. If he can take that step, look out.

After a couple years, the team would know what the finished product looks like, and decide if he is good enough to build the team around to contend for championships with him at QB. If not, they use him as a bridge to the next guy, or they release him.

For me, It's all about the money to want him here.....and I'm afraid he's all about the money right now, and is expecting a fortune. I just don't see it....but I've been wrong before.

For the record, Tampa Bay may have the best offensive weapons in the entire NFL. They are sick at the skill positions. I really believe the team should have won more games than they did last year, and that Winston is a large part of the reason they didn't.....but he is intriguing as a backup with all the upside if he ever figures it out and grows up.

As with most things, it comes down to money.

Once Ben is gone, we’ll be able to afford Winston. Now... not so much. That said, if Winston signed a deal that was $5 million, $5 million, $25 million, $30 million... it would be a win-win. But, I’m not holding my breath.

[st33lersguy]

Bill Cowher thinks that the Steelers 'would be a great fit' for Jameis Winston


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/b...ameis-winston/

I read the article (I only read it because it was Cowher and not your average sports media schlep). He said under the right circumstances it would be a good fit including Winston agreeing to be a backup for 1-2 years.

[AtlantaDan]

He also fumbles at a very high rate and doesn't take care of it that way either.

Thanks for the detailed breakdown on Winston

Article in The Ringer drills down on Winston's fumble issues

Winston leads the NFL in interceptions since 2015, but that doesn’t don’t tell the full story of his propensity for turnovers. Over the past five years, he is tied with Kirk Cousins for the lead in fumbles (50) and leads all players in lost fumbles (23)....

let’s see where every quarterback with at least 50 starts ranks since 2015.
31-40 fumbles + interceptions: Tyrod Taylor
41-50: Alex Smith
51-60: Aaron Rodgers
61-70: Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Case Keenum, Dak Prescott, Ryan Tannehill
71-80: Marcus Mariota, Jared Goff, Matt Stafford, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton
81-90: Ben Roethlisberger, Carson Wentz, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Russell Wilson
91-100: Derek Carr, Matt Ryan, Blake Bortles, Eli Manning
101-110: Kirk Cousins, Philip Rivers
111-120: None
121-130: None
131-140: Jameis Winston

Winston has a stunning 138 picks and fumbles combined in just 72 games....

Winston puts the ball on the ground or in the defender’s hands 1.9 times per game, the sixth-highest rate among the 203 qualified quarterbacks since 1995.

https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/8/2...overs-new-team

[polamalubeast]

Thanks for the detailed breakdown on Winston

Article in The Ringer drills down on Winston's fumble issues

Winston leads the NFL in interceptions since 2015, but that doesn’t don’t tell the full story of his propensity for turnovers. Over the past five years, he is tied with Kirk Cousins for the lead in fumbles (50) and leads all players in lost fumbles (23)....

let’s see where every quarterback with at least 50 starts ranks since 2015.
31-40 fumbles + interceptions: Tyrod Taylor
41-50: Alex Smith
51-60: Aaron Rodgers
61-70: Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Case Keenum, Dak Prescott, Ryan Tannehill
71-80: Marcus Mariota, Jared Goff, Matt Stafford, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton
81-90: Ben Roethlisberger, Carson Wentz, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Russell Wilson
91-100: Derek Carr, Matt Ryan, Blake Bortles, Eli Manning
101-110: Kirk Cousins, Philip Rivers
111-120: None
121-130: None
131-140: Jameis Winston

Winston has a stunning 138 picks and fumbles combined in just 72 games....

Winston puts the ball on the ground or in the defender’s hands 1.9 times per game, the sixth-highest rate among the 203 qualified quarterbacks since 1995.

https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/8/2...overs-new-team

Sorry for being off topic a bit but for Roethlisberger, yes he sometimes had a problem with his interceptions (but I don't think it was out of control with the number of pass attempts he had per game) but he only had 21 fumbles and 5 lost fumbles since 2015(59 games) which is very impressive and this is under the radar a lot!

[pczach]

Thanks for the detailed breakdown on Winston

Article in The Ringer drills down on Winston's fumble issues

Winston leads the NFL in interceptions since 2015, but that doesn’t don’t tell the full story of his propensity for turnovers. Over the past five years, he is tied with Kirk Cousins for the lead in fumbles (50) and leads all players in lost fumbles (23)....

let’s see where every quarterback with at least 50 starts ranks since 2015.
31-40 fumbles + interceptions: Tyrod Taylor
41-50: Alex Smith
51-60: Aaron Rodgers
61-70: Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Case Keenum, Dak Prescott, Ryan Tannehill
71-80: Marcus Mariota, Jared Goff, Matt Stafford, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton
81-90: Ben Roethlisberger, Carson Wentz, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Russell Wilson
91-100: Derek Carr, Matt Ryan, Blake Bortles, Eli Manning
101-110: Kirk Cousins, Philip Rivers
111-120: None
121-130: None
131-140: Jameis Winston

Winston has a stunning 138 picks and fumbles combined in just 72 games....

Winston puts the ball on the ground or in the defender’s hands 1.9 times per game, the sixth-highest rate among the 203 qualified quarterbacks since 1995.

https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/8/2...overs-new-team

Yes, when you dive into the numbers, Winston's turnover rate is astonishing.