Will the Coming Season be Different Because of COVID-19?

[steelreserve]

130,000 is still a lot of people no matter out of what total. Percentages are low, numbers are high.

The total is hugely important, it HAS to be the first thing considered in any logical argument.

There are many, many things that kill "a lot" of people. If you considered them all in terms of absolute numbers only, and not in terms of the proportion of the whole, you would be constantly scared to death and living inside a locked sterile room in a vault for the rest of your life.

Causes of death are out there. This is just one more. That's just life; it needs to be lived, not feared. If you tried to prevent everything that killed "a lot" of people, you could only do it by ruining the whole world. Apparently that is the thing now, and we are irresponsible and selfish for NOT wanting it.

As I have mentioned before, this entire "crisis" has been an exercise in frightening people who don't have a good sense of scale, or who have difficulty switching freely back and forth between two ways of computing statistics. It is nothing to feel bad about, since that describes much of the population. But the ones doing it can go die in a ditch as far as I'm concerned.

[Mojouw]

No, it is not a "conspiracy." It is a bunch of different people and groups who shared a coinciding interest in creating a panic. They don't have to talk to each other, they don't have to plan and coordinate - they just share the same miserable mentality and the same desire to force it on everyone else, and this was a golden opportunity.

At the core of spreading the fear was the mainstream media, which - as the recently departed opinion page editor of the New York Times described it - has become a "performance space" instead of an attempt to report the news. Increasingly, journalists get into the field not to do journalism, but because it provides a platform to amplify their own voices and advance their own views. They are overwhelmingly left-leaning; research on publicly available campaign contribution records puts Democratic Party support at well over 90%.

And these are the ones who control what information is presented and how; who wield the power of public shaming, of fear, and of cancel culture. They absolutely were able to cajole the public and the government into action.

At this point, it is not even a question of whether the right action was taken or not. The evidence is in, and despite a few sad-sack cases who are still clinging to the narrative of mid-March, all the evidence overwhelmingly indicates that the response was a huge mistake. The only question is who is to blame and why the response was allowed to get so far out of control. And let me tell you, it sure wasn't Breitbart or Trump screaming shut it all down.

I was no fan of the GOP and still can't say I am crazy about them, but the left has so thoroughly trampled on people with this, and destroyed any shred of credibility they had, that I cannot imagine how anyone could justify any opinion toward them other than an intense lifelong hatred.

MAYBE that explains the United States. MAYBE. But what is the explanation for the 195 other countries across the globe that largely took this even more seriously than here? Is all their media liberal liars as well? The EXACT same type and flavor of liberals as in the US who with no coordination came up with the exact same lies, manipulations, and suggested policies? I mean, dear lord, that requires a special kind of loco in coconut to say out loud and still think sounds likely.

[steelreserve]

If I told you that wearing a hat could prevent thousands from getting sick and dozens from dying - would you argue with me about the percent of the population that represented and background deaths/year or would just wear a hat in the hopes that it helped save a few people from any suffering?

I mean at some point is this not a window into individual priorities?

There we are again, hung up on masks and distracted from the real point.

If you told me wearing a silly hat could prevent people from dying, that's one thing.

If you told me I could save lives by putting on a silly hat but also staying at home for a year, pulling my kids out of school, canceling all public events, and possibly losing my job - I would straight tell you to go fuck yourself.

[Mojouw]

There we are again, hung up on masks and distracted from the real point.

If you told me wearing a silly hat could prevent people from dying, that's one thing.

If you told me I could save lives by putting on a silly hat but also staying at home for a year, pulling my kids out of school, canceling all public events, and possibly losing my job - I would straight tell you to go fuck yourself.

Right -- because that is what anyone is saying. You are arguing against a position that you have invented in order to justify never having to assimilate and synthesize new information into your viewpoint.

The arguments you are making are the same that people use to justify not wearing a mask or a hat or whatever. Which allows a disease that there is no immunity for to run through the population over and over again. Wear a mask. Social Distance. Take it seriously, and no one's job or whatever would be threatened. In fact, in ALL of the places that did those things -- economic life is better and consumer confidence is higher than here. That is a fact that just really isn't up for debate. SO if your real fear is job loss -- then just do the things. Because everywhere that they have done the things -- economy is looking better.

It is going to be real interesting to see how the "hardline" COVID deniers react when their kids start getting sick at school. I hope it doesn't happen, but expect it will. That is going to be quite the test.

[steelreserve]

MAYBE that explains the United States. MAYBE. But what is the explanation for the 195 other countries across the globe that largely took this even more seriously than here? Is all their media liberal liars as well? The EXACT same type and flavor of liberals as in the US who with no coordination came up with the exact same lies, manipulations, and suggested policies? I mean, dear lord, that requires a special kind of loco in coconut to say out loud and still think sounds likely.

There's no maybe - it DOES explain the United States. Probably most of the Western/Westernized world.

As for the rest of the world, that would make a great PhD dissertation someday. If I had to guess, it would be that they listened to the same garbage information and foolish predictions that came out of Western countries, which were the source of a lot of what the world knew.

If the overall question is, "Can X million people REALLY all be wrong?" then the answer is YES. I mean, if they all gave the same answer, what kind of a question even is that?

[Mojouw]

There's no maybe - it DOES explain the United States. Probably most of the Western/Westernized world.

As for the rest of the world, that would make a great PhD dissertation someday. If I had to guess, it would be that they listened to the same garbage information and foolish predictions that came out of Western countries, which were the source of a lot of what the world knew.

If the overall question is, "Can X million people REALLY all be wrong?" then the answer is YES. I mean, if they all gave the same answer, what kind of a question even is that?

Well good to see that you are as arrogant and ignorant as ever. I love the consistency.

Many places did not use western countries information and predictions, they used their own because they have no use for the west. The cultural forces that you believe ABSOLUTELY explain the US do not even get traction in large swaths of the rest of the globe because people and cultures are highly variable.

It is clear that you basically don't know what you are talking about when it comes to cultural behaviors and knowledge systems on a global scale. So, instead of stopping and considering that you might want to find out more, you just projected US culture (specifically the skewed perspective that you take on it) onto every other corner of the globe.

If you can not see how faulty the reasoning is there; then there is no way to have any kind of productive discussion. You continually harangue us on this thread about needing to keep everything on the up and up when it comes to ensuring people understand what a million is or what this really represents or whatever; then you just kinda show your whole ass about everything else and write it off as "well this makes sense to me so clearly the world works this way" despite, if you cared to look, a mountain of evidence that demonstrates the total opposite.

[teegre]

If the other countries all did indeed come together just to make life hell for Trump... well... Allen Funt would be proud.

[Mojouw]

Here is another thing to consider...IF COVID is just overblown US based leftist nonsense; why is every major intelligence agency in the world attempting to get a leg up in the vaccine research race? Money almost certainly. But perhaps that whole national security thing as well....

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53429506

https://www.cyberscoop.com/coronavir...cking-dhs-fbi/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN22K2EV

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN2241C8

But...nah....it is just an over-hyped thing that we can all just ignore because cancel culture is a tool of the liberal elites to get you to boil the frog and sign away your rights.

[teegre]

re: STATS

With all of the discussion about statistics, I have been soooo waiting for El-Gonzo to post his infamous “one testicle, one breast” quote.

[silver & black]

"...cancel culture is a tool of the liberal elites to get you to boil the frog and sign away your rights."

Welllll......................................

[steelreserve]

Well good to see that you are as arrogant and ignorant as ever. I love the consistency.

Many places did not use western countries information and predictions, they used their own because they have no use for the west. The cultural forces that you believe ABSOLUTELY explain the US do not even get traction in large swaths of the rest of the globe because people and cultures are highly variable.

It is clear that you basically don't know what you are talking about when it comes to cultural behaviors and knowledge systems on a global scale. So, instead of stopping and considering that you might want to find out more, you just projected US culture (specifically the skewed perspective that you take on it) onto every other corner of the globe.

If you can not see how faulty the reasoning is there; then there is no way to have any kind of productive discussion. You continually harangue us on this thread about needing to keep everything on the up and up when it comes to ensuring people understand what a million is or what this really represents or whatever; then you just kinda show your whole ass about everything else and write it off as "well this makes sense to me so clearly the world works this way" despite, if you cared to look, a mountain of evidence that demonstrates the total opposite.

The hell are you talking about, the first thing I said was it was just a guess. But I suppose your knowledge of foreign culture must be unequaled in order to go on a diatribe like that.

Yes, this has all been an exercise in how I clearly don't understand a single thing about how the world works - I mean, shit, I must be the luckiest damn guy in the universe to keep blindly arriving at conclusions that turn out to be better than the garbage that's being pushed daily. I mean, there are MOUNTAINS of evidence showing why all those wrong predictions shouldn't have been wrong!

But no, you're absolutely right, we should all be afraid, liberals are all great reasonable people who are just here to help, don't ever question whether someone's theory is right or wrong, and I'm just some edgelord.

[tom444]

There are many, many things that kill "a lot" of people.

Yeah, and 99% of them aren't contagious.

[Mojouw]

The hell are you talking about, the first thing I said was it was just a guess. But I suppose your knowledge of foreign culture must be unequaled in order to go on a diatribe like that.

Yes, this has all been an exercise in how I clearly don't understand a single thing about how the world works - I mean, shit, I must be the luckiest damn guy in the universe to keep blindly arriving at conclusions that turn out to be better than the garbage that's being pushed daily. I mean, there are MOUNTAINS of evidence showing why all those wrong predictions shouldn't have been wrong!

But no, you're absolutely right, we should all be afraid, liberals are all great reasonable people who are just here to help, don't ever question whether someone's theory is right or wrong, and I'm just some edgelord.

Well, I did screw around and get a series of degrees in it.

And you've got the Iranian press, the Russian press, and the US press all somehow spouting the same global liberal conspiracies? That literally makes no sense.

[Mach1]

[Born2Steel]

The total is hugely important, it HAS to be the first thing considered in any logical argument.

There are many, many things that kill "a lot" of people. If you considered them all in terms of absolute numbers only, and not in terms of the proportion of the whole, you would be constantly scared to death and living inside a locked sterile room in a vault for the rest of your life.

Causes of death are out there. This is just one more. That's just life; it needs to be lived, not feared. If you tried to prevent everything that killed "a lot" of people, you could only do it by ruining the whole world. Apparently that is the thing now, and we are irresponsible and selfish for NOT wanting it.

As I have mentioned before, this entire "crisis" has been an exercise in frightening people who don't have a good sense of scale, or who have difficulty switching freely back and forth between two ways of computing statistics. It is nothing to feel bad about, since that describes much of the population. But the ones doing it can go die in a ditch as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, many things out there kill people but that is not what killed these 130,000 people.

I have also heard the stories about COVID-19 numbers being inflated. People(yes more than a couple) I trust have told me about cancelling tests and later receiving a positive test result. One person told me they received a negative test result and then later received a positive result for the same test. Because of this I do agree there are reasons to feel the way you do. I also agree somebody(s) is profiting from these tests. But one very real thing in all of this is there is actually a virus that is killing people. Yes, other viruses kill but those other viruses are not contagious until showing symptoms. This COVID-19 is spreading from non-symptomatic carriers. AND it spreads as easily as those other viruses. My honest belief is that if not for the 'lockdown' the death toll would actually be much higher than it is. Why do I believe that? Because I know people that have lived through it and also 2 that died from it.

I work in a place with roughly 200 employees in the building every day. We see around 300 patients per day(5 days a week). The rule is masks must be worn while inside the building. So far not 1 employee has had a positive test for COVID-19. Our doctors are randomly tested because they travel between different facilities and none of them have tested positive so far as well. The virus is real. The precautions are working. Getting back to work safely for everyone is the goal. Just rushing back in and counting the dead after is not how to achieve that.

[steelreserve]

Yes, many things out there kill people but that is not what killed these 130,000 people.

I have also heard the stories about COVID-19 numbers being inflated. People(yes more than a couple) I trust have told me about cancelling tests and later receiving a positive test result. One person told me they received a negative test result and then later received a positive result for the same test. Because of this I do agree there are reasons to feel the way you do. I also agree somebody(s) is profiting from these tests. But one very real thing in all of this is there is actually a virus that is killing people. Yes, other viruses kill but those other viruses are not contagious until showing symptoms. This COVID-19 is spreading from non-symptomatic carriers. AND it spreads as easily as those other viruses. My honest belief is that if not for the 'lockdown' the death toll would actually be much higher than it is. Why do I believe that? Because I know people that have lived through it and also 2 that died from it.

I work in a place with roughly 200 employees in the building every day. We see around 300 patients per day(5 days a week). The rule is masks must be worn while inside the building. So far not 1 employee has had a positive test for COVID-19. Our doctors are randomly tested because they travel between different facilities and none of them have tested positive so far as well. The virus is real. The precautions are working. Getting back to work safely for everyone is the goal. Just rushing back in and counting the dead after is not how to achieve that.

It is not that the virus isn't "real." It is that we are going to end up in the exact same place eventually, with a lockdown or without one. The lockdown was not about reducing the total number of cases or deaths at all; the scientists and health officials all acknowledge that. Yet many if not most people seem to have forgotten all about that, and now think the point is to wait until it stops spreading completely and cases drop to zero. That is not the point and it never was the point - you cannot eradicate it, it is impossible.

In other words, this has been a lot of extra misery and suffering just to get where we were going anyway. If the hospitals are not overflowing, there is no reason to have a lockdown of any kind, and they are not overflowing now, and they never were anywhere near overflowing before. You could justify these measures in New York City only, and then only for a couple of weeks. In fact, apart from NYC and New Jersey, the overall death rate of the rest of the country didn't change at all from normal flu season, nor did it change in any specific region other than NY/NJ.

[Mojouw]

Wanna bet she's an "Instagram influencer"?

That's a special kinda dumb right there.

[tom444]

.......................
In other words, this has been a lot of extra misery and suffering just to get where we were going anyway. If the hospitals are not overflowing, there is no reason to have a lockdown of any kind, and they are not overflowing now, and they never were anywhere near overflowing before. ..........

Wake up!

Texas hospitals are running out of drugs, beds, ventilators and even staff

Many Texas hospitals are no longer accepting transfer patients in order to maintain space for a surge that’s expected to come. In some parts of the state, it’s already here.

by Edgar Walters, Shannon Najmabadi and Emma Platoff July 14, 20205 AM

A coronavirus patient in Anahuac was flown by helicopter to a hospital in El Campo — 120 miles away — because closer facilities could not take him.

Ambulances are waiting up to 10 hours to deliver patients to packed Hidalgo County emergency rooms.
And short-staffed hospitals in Midland and Odessa have had to turn away ailing COVID-19 patients from rural West Texas facilities that can’t offer the care they need.

As the tally of coronavirus infections climbs higher each day, Texas hospitals are taking extraordinary steps to make space for a surge of patients. Some facilities in South Texas say they are dangerously close to filling up, while hospitals elsewhere are taking precautionary measures to keep their numbers manageable.

Doctors warn of shortages of an antiviral drug that shows promise for treating COVID-19 patients. And epidemiologists say the state’s hospitals may be in for a longer, harder ride than places like New York, where hospitals were stretched to capacity in the spring and some parked refrigerated trailers outside to store bodies of people who died from COVID-19.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07...s-coronavirus/

[Craic]

Wake up!



https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07...s-coronavirus/

Cherry picking hospitals and numbers proves SR's point. The CDC currently estimates around 61 percent of all ICU beds in the US is being used. However, you might be interested to know that in a three year study between 2005-2007, the average ICU occupancy ranged between 57.4 percent and 82.1 percent. Moreover, "Mean hourly occupancy across ICUs was 68.2 percent." Again, that was over a three year period. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3840149/

As much as I think SR's attitude is wrong and downright dangerous at times in how he dismisses the threat, he is absolutely ​right in pointing out how it is being hyped.

[tom444]

Cherry picking hospitals and numbers proves SR's point.

Showing the problem where covid is spiking is cherry picking? Are you supposed to look where it's trending down instead?

Let me ask you. When it was spiking in Italy were you suppose to look at the Arctic Circle to get an accurate read? Jesus christ.

he is absolutely ​right in pointing out how it is being hyped.

How the hell can you hype a pandemic? It's speaking for itself loud and clear.

We got some fucking dumb people in the US. I mean really fucking dumb.

[tom444]

Some more cherry picking. Just look the other way. If you're OK, who cares?

Texas ER doctor warns 'things are definitely getting dire' in state's fight against coronavirus

Dr. Natasha Kathuria claims hospitals may soon face shortages of PPE, key medications

Yael Halon1 day ago
Video

ER doctor in Texas talks about coronavirus cases

Dr. Natasha Kathuria speaks out about the rise in COVID-19 cases.



Texas emergency room physician Dr. Natasha Kathuria painted a bleak picture of the battle against coronavirus in Houston's hospitals on Wednesday, warning that "things are definitely getting dire down here."
"The red alarms are going off," Kathuria, who has been working in hospitals across the state, told "Bill Hemmer Reports". "Our ICUs are filling, and that inevitably trickles down to the rest of the hospital and the ER's. We still have a revolving door of emergency room patients coming in ... and the toll it is taking on our health care system is unfathomable.
ABBOTT CALLS ON TEXANS, AMERICANS TO 'WEAR A MASK' AS NEW CASES, TOTAL HOSPITALIZATIONS HIT RECORD HIGHS IN STATE
It is very difficult," she explained. "You know, we are constantly stressed and scared."
On Wedensday, Texas officials reported 110 additional coronavirus deaths, the most new deaths reported in a single day since the pandemic began. In all, the Lone Star State has more than 282,000 confirmed COVID-19 cases, more than 10,000 hospitalizations and 3,432 deaths.
AS CORONAVIRUS CASES SURGE, DOCTORS AND NURSES FEAR OF PPE SHORTAGES
Kathuria told host Bill Hemmer it would only be a matter of time before hospitals see shortages of personal protective equipment (PPE) and critical medications such as remdesivir as well as personnel.
"We’ve got methods to manage this," she said of the virus, "but we can't have this many patients coming in at a time to any one hospital with this disease and expect to be able to continue to have those resources, because we don't.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/texas-...tasha-kathuria

[cold-hard-steel]

Showing the problem where covid is spiking is cherry picking? Are you supposed to look where it's trending down instead?

Let me ask you. When it was spiking in Italy were you suppose to look at the Arctic Circle to get an accurate read? Jesus christ.



How the hell can you hype a pandemic? It's speaking for itself loud and clear.

We got some fucking dumb people in the US. I mean really fucking dumb.

Thank God we have some smart soy latte' sucking trolls like you left. I feel better now.

[tom444]

Thank God we have some smart soy latte' sucking trolls like you left. I feel better now.

Haven't you got some enlightening video to put up?

[tom444]

More cherry picking.

Florida hospitals face ICU bed shortage as state passes 300,000 COVID-19 cases

More than 77,000 cases were logged just in the last seven days, according to the Florida Department of Health.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...0-000-n1233899

[cold-hard-steel]

331,002,651 U.S. pop. 924,107 staffed hospital beds.

[cold-hard-steel]

More cherry picking.



https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...0-000-n1233899

Hmmmmm......isn't there a rally or convention or something planned for there? Funny everywhere there is one planned the numbers spike overnight.

[steelreserve]

Cases! Cases! Cases!

1.5% of Florida has had the disease! One or two out of 1,000 of those might die! Pandemic! Emergency! Lock everybody in their houses again for their own good! (Absolute number of 300,000 used, but not the state's population of 20 million - nice!)

Death rate still near zero and declining every week! Keep that quiet! Cases! Cases! Cases! Lock it all down, the teenager said so!

[tom444]

............. If the hospitals are not overflowing, there is no reason to have a lockdown of any kind, and they are not overflowing now, and they never were anywhere near overflowing before. .........

Someone is again caught with his head somewhere.

Florida was running out of ICU beds at numerous hospitals Wednesday as COVID-19 cases continued to pile up by the tens of thousands and the Trump administration appeared powerless to stop it.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...0-000-n1233899

[Mach1]

"Trust" the "data." der der der

Garbage in, garbage out

Florida Man Died in a Motorcycle Crash, and His Death Was Listed as a COVID-19 Death

We need to trust the data, fam. Trust the experts. Trust the experts' data. Sure, many experts have gotten their data wrong
It doesn't matter. Whatever data the experts gave you last, trust that data because it's coming from experts being all experty and dataly.

Also, completely disregard this news report where a Florida man was killed in a motorcycle accident and the experts counted the death as a COVID death in the data they made public.

Sure, blowing one mistake up to be something more than it is is silly. Or, two mistakes up, since this is at least the second time this has happened in a week in Florida alone. Also, all the extra COVID deaths that people just find. Ignore all the problems in how the data is counted and collected. Also — and this is the big one — ignore all the ways the experts, our leaders, and many in the media have abused our trust so that we have good reason to question them when they give us data.

Ignore all that and just say that you're sure this report is purely and accidentaly coincidental. Or, a coincidentally accidental. Either way, don't ask questions.

https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/fl...covid-19-death

[tom444]

Yeah, the ICUs are full because of motorcycle accidents.