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Thread: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I mean that is analogous, but I suspect Employees A and B don't work for a gazillion dollar a year business that is almost totally dependent on the public perception for that income. Nor does anyone collect memorabilia and make their buying decisions based on endorsements from Employees A and B. But they do for the NFL. That changes the reactions and motivations of everyone involved.
    Peyton Manning disagrees

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    My personal opinion is that while many here have experiences in other realms, I can only imagine some of the "words" thrown about in the trenches of any NFL game. Not the same as kinder school or whatever. It may have been curtailed a bit in todays politically correct society and I am not condoning Garrets actions by any means, but I would have guessed that big boy NFL players have long ago learned how to let that gum flapping, name calling shit roll right off. The entire world now knows(supposedly) what sets Garret off. Do not think that wont be used to strategize against him to some extent.

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    What I'm sayin' is that insults really are just words, and anybody who's so emotionally fragile that they can't handle name- calling has been done a great disservice by their parents, because they're unfit to cope with the real world. And while it would be nice if this asinine behavior were to stop, we need to think about how far we're willing to go because the current methods are causing serious harm to society in general and this generation of kids in particular.
    There's a point where the line has to be drawn. Yeah, someone calls you an a-hole cause you cut them off on the highway = whatever. However, saying racist or bigoted things in a work environment can get you fired. I would teach my kids that this is NOT ok. In school it could get you a butt-whooping. In the grown up world, it could get you a butt-whooping AND a firing. Yes, technically speaking, it's just words. But words can easily get the ball rolling on some serious actions

    I'm sure there's a lot of things I would like to tell my boss, but I won't, because I know the "it's just words" defense would never work. I do understand that in most scenarios it's good to brush things off and have thick skin, but also like I said, the line has to be drawn somewhere.
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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    There's a point where the line has to be drawn. Yeah, someone calls you an a-hole cause you cut them off on the highway = whatever. However, saying racist or bigoted things in a work environment can get you fired. I would teach my kids that this is NOT ok. In school it could get you a butt-whooping. In the grown up world, it could get you a butt-whooping AND a firing. Yes, technically speaking, it's just words. But words can easily get the ball rolling on some serious actions

    I'm sure there's a lot of things I would like to tell my boss, but I won't, because I know the "it's just words" defense would never work. I do understand that in most scenarios it's good to brush things off and have thick skin, but also like I said, the line has to be drawn somewhere.
    Not disagreein', but the ramifications for chucking around racist insults fall on the idiot who throws them, not the person on the receiving end. And while the line *does* have to be drawn somewhere, I don't think we've found the right place. If anything, it's a worse place than it was back in the '80s.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Funny, I raised my son to understand that insults, no matter how hateful, are just words. He never bothered to behave that way and never let it bother him when he was on the receiving end.

    More incidents, or more accusations? False accusations are on the rise these days, as you surely have noticed. That's not an accident.

    What I'm sayin' is that insults really are just words, and anybody who's so emotionally fragile that they can't handle name- calling has been done a great disservice by their parents, because they're unfit to cope with the real world. And while it would be nice if this asinine behavior were to stop, we need to think about how far we're willing to go because the current methods are causing serious harm to society in general and this generation of kids in particular.
    YOU (AGAIN)
    Like I stated in an earlier post, just because you (and your son) were called a n*gger and you were fine with it doesn’t make it okay. (scroll up for the entire post)

    MORE:
    More incidents. The students flat-out admit to saying it; their excuse is that “It’s just a word.”

    JUST WORDS:
    I feel like we've just taken a step backwards in this discussion. Just a little while ago, I thought that we had agreed upon the fact that it’s indeed not “just words.” I thought that we had agreed that words can hurt, and the discussion had moved on to Person B’s reaction...

    Bullying exists. To say it dorsn’t, to simply ignore it... well, I’m not sure how to even respond. The “Meet me at 3:00” bully doesn’t really exist any more. What exists in exuberance is the bully who finds any means to hurt another person with words. The bully will find your sensitive subject (race, disability, clothing, parents) and stab at it repeatedly until Person B breaks.

    How Person B reacts is key. You say to simply “ignore” it. Great. That is one way, and it worked for you & your son. I’d say that the two of you are outliers, because even those who try to “ignore” bullying are simply just hiding their reactions.


    NOTE: For those who don’t get that GoSlash and I have tangented off into a secondary discussion, neither of us feels that Garrett is in the right. We both feel that Garrett is a liar... and, even if Rudolph did use a slur, we in NO WAY feel that Garrett’s reaction was healthy.

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Teegre,
    I never said I was "fine with it", never said it's "okay". Never said "bullying doesn't exist". What I'm saying is that an insult, regardless of the severity, is still merely an insult. It says a lot more negative about the person who hurls it than the recipient. Being on the receiving end of it, I am not going to waste my energy on things I can't control, but rather the things I *can* control; namely how I react to it.
    It would be nice if we lived in a world where everywhere was a safe space, there was no bullying, and such incidents never occurred... but we don't. It is important to raise your kids so that they understand that the world isn't always kind, isn't always fair, but we are expected to cope anyway.
    These recent attempts to stamp out bullying have accomplished nothing other than creating a generation of emotional cripples and heightened racial tensions. And humans (being what they are) have learned to exploit the situation to their own advantage. They feign outrage where there is none, invent incidents that never happened, and constantly seek the attention and approval that comes with being a victim.
    That's not a good outcome for society in general or these kids in particular. It's not a good outcome because all that coddling and protection ends the moment they leave academia and get smacked in the face by the real world, and they're completely incapable of dealing with the culture shock.

    Ultimately, what I'm saying is that there are healthier ways to deal with the uglier side of life than what we're doing at the moment. And there's *definitely* healthier ways to raise our kids.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    *edit* I should also add that I and my son are not "outliers". We're just like everyone else raised in my generation and all the preceding generations. We're the "normal" ones. What's abnormal is what's going on right now.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    they should allow kids to fight back and punch bullies in the mouth. kids learn to stand up for themselves, and bullies tend to shut up once their aura of invincibility gets shattered, it's a win-win. Unfortunately the school systems are likely to suspend you for fighting back (at least they did in my case, anytime I was involved in a fight I was sent home even if I had a good reason to knock someone upside the head).
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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    To be fair to schools and other institutions, everything related to bullying changed when kids started bringing guns to schools and shooting their bullies.

    Funny how that almost never gets brought up when we start talking about how it was better back when or whatnot.

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    BETWEEN THE WHITE LINES. I find it sort of funny that this is even an issue for Garrett. Racial slurs and other insults and taunting go on in EVERY level of football. Between those white lines it all goes on. YES even in today's PC world of no finger guns and participation trophies. It wouldn't shock me to learn that is exactly what Rudolph said to Garrett. Garrett's reaction to ANYTHING somebody said on the field is what I find shocking. Why didn't Pouncey react toward Rudolph? Because Pouncey gets called all the names during games too and is mature enough to know what's really behind them. These insults are hurled in every football game. They are "against the rues" so don't do it so loud the sidelines can hear or so often the refs have to throw a flag but what do you honestly think goes on out there? Not all players resort to this but some players are talking this level of trash each and every game. Garrett lost his cool and made a bad situation worse and dangerous. These are pro sports athletes and they do all sorts of things to get in each other's heads and put people off their games. When 2 NHL players are fighting for a puck against the boards do you think they are saying things like "nice pass into the zone there eh"? Is this level of trash talk beyond acceptable limit? For some yes, for others no. But it is part of the game of football.

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    To be fair to schools and other institutions, everything related to bullying changed when kids started bringing guns to schools and shooting their bullies.

    Funny how that almost never gets brought up when we start talking about how it was better back when or whatnot.
    Prolly because it's not true. Mass school shootings date all the way back to the 19th century. In fact, the oldest school shootings in America actually predate the USA itself. Of course, there were a lot less fatalities before the invention of the "gun- free zone", which made stopping the attack impossible.
    / nice try, tho'
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    It wouldn't shock me to learn that is exactly what Rudolph said to Garrett.
    It would certainly shock the crap out of me. I don't picture a QB being able to make it all the way to the NFL if he throws around n-bombs. A QB relies on too many black teammates (who won't put up with that) for that to fly.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Prolly because it's not true. Mass school shootings date all the way back to the 19th century. In fact, the oldest school shootings in America actually predate the USA itself. Of course, there were a lot less fatalities before the invention of the "gun- free zone", which made stopping the attack impossible.
    / nice try, tho'
    Ok. Nice attempt at whatever that was. Essentially every single education institute changed its policies on bullying post-Columbine. For better or worse the public outcry and fear over school shootings has dramatically impacted how schools and universities have been approaching bullying and conflicts among their students.

    If we are attempting to understand why people now deal with conflict and confrontation in schools different than 20, 30, 40, or 50 years ago; the percieved threat of school shootings and the very real policy changes that drove need to be considered.

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Ok. Nice attempt at whatever that was. Essentially every single education institute changed its policies on bullying post-Columbine. For better or worse the public outcry and fear over school shootings has dramatically impacted how schools and universities have been approaching bullying and conflicts among their students.

    If we are attempting to understand why people now deal with conflict and confrontation in schools different than 20, 30, 40, or 50 years ago; the percieved threat of school shootings and the very real policy changes that drove need to be considered.
    Not disagreeing with that. Just pointing out that Columbine itself was the result of wayward policy, and it doesn't excuse all the wayward policy that happened as a result. It's just compounded errors made by the same pie- in- the- sky idiots.
    The same jackasses who thought "we'll just put up a sign saying 'no guns allowed' will magically deliciously end the threat of school shootings" thought "if we just ban the use of certain words, bullying will magically deliciously end".
    Any rational human with two brain cells to clack together can realize how idiotic this is, and the first blunder doesn't excuse the second.
    The *real problem* is the idiots who can't differentiate between how they wish the world would be vs. how the world actually is. They shouldn't be driving.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Not disagreeing with that. Just pointing out that Columbine itself was the result of wayward policy, and it doesn't excuse all the wayward policy that happened as a result. It's just compounded errors made by the same pie- in- the- sky idiots.
    The same jackasses who thought "we'll just put up a sign saying 'no guns allowed' will magically deliciously end the threat of school shootings" thought "if we just ban the use of certain words, bullying will end".
    Any rational human with two brain cells to clack together can realize how idiotic this is, and the first blunder doesn't excuse the second.
    I don't think anyone here has been attempting to make that particular straw man.

    All I'm saying is if you're over 40 years old, one of the multiple reasons that school policies have dramatically changed is in response to a vocal post-Columbine demand.

    Attempting to put that particular toothpaste back into the tube isn't going to work.

    I agree that in an era where we are supposedly more connected than ever, we seem to have collectively lost the skills of confrontation and dealing with problems one on one. And I propose that one of the MANY reasons for that is almost all public spaces have a variety of zero tolerance policies which preclude children specifically from developing the skills to deal with confrontation.

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I don't think anyone here has been attempting to make that particular straw man.

    All I'm saying is if you're over 40 years old, one of the multiple reasons that school policies have dramatically changed is in response to a vocal post-Columbine demand.

    Attempting to put that particular toothpaste back into the tube isn't going to work.

    I agree that in an era where we are supposedly more connected than ever, we seem to have collectively lost the skills of confrontation and dealing with problems one on one. And I propose that one of the MANY reasons for that is almost all public spaces have a variety of zero tolerance policies which preclude children specifically from developing the skills to deal with confrontation.
    I'm 100% with you on that last sentence. I personally extend it back to the subject of Columbine (which I wasn't the one who raised).
    Real life has conflict, and this generation is ill- equipped to handle it because the powers- that- be have erroneously attempted to eradicate it until it's too late to develop the skills to deal with it.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    I wish there was a way to get a list of things players send to the opposing team for that week. The retired guys talk about things they have sent and/or received and I find that sort of thing hilarious. In one of the threads there is an interview with Ike and he touches on this subject. I think he was talking about stuff Ocho would send him during Steelers/Bengals week. Just another example of how players try to get into each other's heads during games and even during prep week. Not talking about the weak hero worship stuff like OBJ giving Brady a pair of camel hair cleats before a Browns/Patriots game either. I'm talking about the weird funny shit players do that is also part of the trash talk.

    https://larrybrownsports.com/footbal...-baskets/10909

    Stuff like this...hilarious!

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    I wish there was a way to get a list of things players send to the opposing team for that week. The retired guys talk about things they have sent and/or received and I find that sort of thing hilarious. In one of the threads there is an interview with Ike and he touches on this subject. I think he was talking about stuff Ocho would send him during Steelers/Bengals week. Just another example of how players try to get into each other's heads during games and even during prep week. Not talking about the weak hero worship stuff like OBJ giving Brady a pair of camel hair cleats before a Browns/Patriots game either. I'm talking about the weird funny shit players do that is also part of the trash talk.

    https://larrybrownsports.com/footbal...-baskets/10909

    Stuff like this...hilarious!
    I remember Chad doing this every year. He once sent ketchup to the Steelers before a game, telling them the Steelers needed to "ketch-up".. I also remember a picture taken after a game with Chad, Ben, and another Steeler that I can't remember.(maybe Hines, not sure) It was taken in front of a vending machine in Heinz Field, probably outside the locker rooms. Chad was holding one those prepackaged cinnamon rolls because the Bengals "rolled over". Chad could dish it out, but he could also take it. Those were the good ole days.


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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by stillers4me View Post
    I remember Chad doing this every year. He once sent ketchup to the Steelers before a game, telling them the Steelers needed to "ketch-up".. I also remember a picture taken after a game with Chad, Ben, and another Steeler that I can't remember.(maybe Hines, not sure) It was taken in front of a vending machine in Heinz Field, probably outside the locker rooms. Chad was holding one those prepackaged cinnamon rolls because the Bengals "rolled over". Chad could dish it out, but he could also take it. Those were the good ole days.
    Yep. There are a lot of stories by former players about stuff like this that they used to do to each other. I wish there was a book of these stories.

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Teegre,
    I never said I was "fine with it", never said it's "okay". Never said "bullying doesn't exist". What I'm saying is that an insult, regardless of the severity, is still merely an insult. It says a lot more negative about the person who hurls it than the recipient. Being on the receiving end of it, I am not going to waste my energy on things I can't control, but rather the things I *can* control; namely how I react to it.
    It would be nice if we lived in a world where everywhere was a safe space, there was no bullying, and such incidents never occurred... but we don't. It is important to raise your kids so that they understand that the world isn't always kind, isn't always fair, but we are expected to cope anyway.

    These recent attempts to stamp out bullying have accomplished nothing other than creating a generation of emotional cripples and heightened racial tensions. And humans (being what they are) have learned to exploit the situation to their own advantage. They feign outrage where there is none, invent incidents that never happened, and constantly seek the attention and approval that comes with being a victim.
    That's not a good outcome for society in general or these kids in particular. It's not a good outcome because all that coddling and protection ends the moment they leave academia and get smacked in the face by the real world, and they're completely incapable of dealing with the culture shock.

    Ultimately, what I'm saying is that there are healthier ways to deal with the uglier side of life than what we're doing at the moment. And there's *definitely* healthier ways to raise our kids.
    The truncated responses:

    Bolded part 1:
    We agree that words can hurt. We also agree that one’s reaction to that is huge.

    Unbolded part:
    I’m not going to get into that. Comparing society in the 50s vs. 80s vs. 2010s is tricky at best. Everyone feels that they walked 30 miles uphill both ways without shoes. I have no interest in that topic (that’s not a slight towards you; more of a personal opinion about what topics I like to discuss).

    Bolded part 2:
    We agree.

    From my perspective, there are three people involved in bullying:
    Person A (the person saying hurtful things)
    Person B (the target of those hurtful words)
    Person C (the bystander)

    Each person has a role to play, and thus, in order to “resolve the conflict” (for lack of a better term), they have something to learn/improve upon.

    Person A needs to acknowledge that he has caused pain to someone else. From my experience, one Person A truly takes ownership (has empathy), he rarely repeats his actions.

    Person B needs to take back his power. Ignoring the taunts/walking away is a legitimate strategy. It’s what we tell students to do (as a first reaction)... because, if Person A feels that their words haven’t “hit” their intended target, then they might simply stop/move on. Then again... maybe Person A will try even harder to be hurtful. Either way, while walking away doesn’t escalate the situation, it doesn’t actually force Person A to face his deeds.

    Instead, I would prefer that Person B confronts Person A. Obviously, you’ve probably guessed that I would never suggest violence. By confront I mean to tell Person A that what they did was hurtful, mean-spirited, and/or unacceptable. Person A might shrug it off/not listen, but at least Person B let Person A know how he felt about those words.

    Person C’s role (IMO) would be to intervene for the norms of the group. “We don’t make fun of people here” “We don’t use the N word in staff meetings” ...or, the ever-powerful, “Stop.”

    SUMMATION:
    Words hurt.
    Reactions can be just hurtful.

    Our role as adults is to help the younger generations figure out what is a healthy reaction, because a lot of times young people’s reactions are indeed unhealthy.

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post

    Unbolded part:
    I’m not going to get into that. Comparing society in the 50s vs. 80s vs. 2010s is tricky at best. Everyone feels that they walked 30 miles uphill both ways without shoes. I have no interest in that topic (that’s not a slight towards you; more of a personal opinion about what topics I like to discuss).
    Teegre,
    It's a shame that you're unwilling to address this, because it's *literally* what this thread is about. We went all around many tangential subjects, but this is the center: Is it acceptable to throw out "dude called me a racial epithet" (which nobody actually believes) in defense of clubbing someone over the head with a football helmet on national TV?
    No. It has never been acceptable until very recently, and it shouldn't even be a topic of discussion. Calling someone a slur (no matter how vile) has never been and will never be on the same level as aggravated assault. It's ludicrous to me that this is even open for debate.
    The offense is doubly egregious because the charge itself is slander; literally adding insult to injury. In any sane society, Garrett should be subject to criminal and civil penalty for this behavior.
    Unfortunately, society is not sane at the moment, which is why we're discussing this as if it has two equally valid sides.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  22. #112

    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Teegre,
    It's a shame that you're unwilling to address this, because it's *literally* what this thread is about. We went all around many tangential subjects, but this is the center: Is it acceptable to throw out "dude called me a racial epithet" (which nobody actually believes) in defense of clubbing someone over the head with a football helmet on national TV?
    No. It has never been acceptable until very recently, and it shouldn't even be a topic of discussion. Calling someone a slur (no matter how vile) has never been and will never be on the same level as aggravated assault. It's ludicrous to me that this is even open for debate.
    The offense is doubly egregious because the charge itself is slander; literally adding insult to injury. In any sane society, Garrett should be subject to criminal and civil penalty for this behavior.
    Unfortunately, society is not sane at the moment, which is why we're discussing this as if it has two equally valid sides.
    Except, it's not what this discussion's been about between you, teegre, and to a lesser extent, me. No one here has argued with you that calling someone a racial slur means it's acceptable to club that person over the head with a helmet. Instead, it was about you stating:
    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    I agree with this *mostly*. My only disagreement being that nobody can be a "victim" of a word.
    And FrancoLambert stating
    Quote Originally Posted by FrancoLambert View Post

    So happy that I was raised when the phrase “sticks and stones can break my bones, but names can never hurt me,” was drilled into me as a child.
    Never bothered me when I was called a guinea, wop, or dago while growing up. No outrage...real or fake.
    Just words.
    In short, this discussion has been about the fact that words have power. They are not just words or merely an insult. Insults have all types of effects. They shape perception, they shift relationships, they cause division. Even you admitted that when insulted, you walk away. The other person's words has made you vacate your space—they have just exhibited control over you by causing you to leave.

    Now, is leaving the healthy response? Yes. But that doesn't mean the insult did not have power. It does mean you acquiesced in the power struggle that was that moment's interaction. That's all I've been saying, and in truth, I think that's pretty much all teegre's been saying... Words do have power. They do have meaning.*


    *And for the one or two posters that remembers posts I made long ago, words have meanings because of an agreed language contract rather than innate meaning that is true across cultures.
    Last edited by Craic; 02-23-2020 at 05:29 PM. Reason: affect, effect . . . I hate English sometimes.


  23. #113
    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Even you admitted that when insulted, you walk away. The other person's words has made you vacate your space—they have just exhibited control over you by causing you to leave.
    I did? When did I say that? You've been on this forum as long as I have, and you should know darn well that I don't "walk away" when insulted. I simply take it as an admission on their part that they've lost the argument.
    And yes, words do have power... but not nearly so much power as people ascribe to them these days. They certainly don't have the power of a thrown fist or a cocked gun, yet people are going around treating insults like physical assault. "He made me feel unsafe" "I was victimized", etc.
    All insults are intended to humiliate and demean, and for people with delicate self esteem, they do. For the rest of us, insults only have the effect we allow them to. Hence "an insult is merely an insult".

    Where we got caught up is whether or not one particular insult is so much worse than other insults that society needs to bend itself up into a balloon animal to put a stop to its use. I say it's not. I say we've gone completely off the rails over the last decade.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  24. #114
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Teegre,
    It's a shame that you're unwilling to address this, because it's *literally* what this thread is about. We went all around many tangential subjects, but this is the center: Is it acceptable to throw out "dude called me a racial epithet" (which nobody actually believes) in defense of clubbing someone over the head with a football helmet on national TV?
    No. It has never been acceptable until very recently, and it shouldn't even be a topic of discussion. Calling someone a slur (no matter how vile) has never been and will never be on the same level as aggravated assault. It's ludicrous to me that this is even open for debate.
    The offense is doubly egregious because the charge itself is slander; literally adding insult to injury. In any sane society, Garrett should be subject to criminal and civil penalty for this behavior.
    Unfortunately, society is not sane at the moment, which is why we're discussing this as if it has two equally valid sides.
    I think I’ve made it abundantly clear that Garrett’s assault was in no way acceptable. I’ve also stated that what Garrett said was slander.

  25. #115

    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    I did? When did I say that? You've been on this forum as long as I have, and you should know darn well that I don't "walk away" when insulted. I simply take it as an admission on their part that they've lost the argument.
    And yes, words do have power... but not nearly so much power as people ascribe to them these days. They certainly don't have the power of a thrown fist or a cocked gun, yet people are going around treating insults like physical assault. "He made me feel unsafe" "I was victimized", etc.
    All insults are intended to humiliate and demean, and for people with delicate self esteem, they do. For the rest of us, insults only have the effect we allow them to. Hence "an insult is merely an insult".

    Where we got caught up is whether or not one particular insult is so much worse than other insults that society needs to bend itself up into a balloon animal to put a stop to its use. I say it's not. I say we've gone completely off the rails over the last decade.
    Then I misread you. I apologize. But if using that word changed any response from you, then my point stands that words have power. Of course, I also see that you agreed with that.

    If I hear you're argument correctly, you're saying that today's societal response to words deemed bad, in general, is off the rails. Hence, you're arguing against the PC world, the SJWs and snowflakes who want to live in a world where all they hear are nice things.

    I, and again, if I'm reading teegre correctly (and teegre, correct me if I'm not), are not arguing that at all. Heck, we both agree with you it's gone off the rails. What we disagree with is simply the idea that words are just words or that words can't hurt.

    So, perhaps, we've been talking past each other instead of with each other throughout this discussion.


  26. #116
    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    So, perhaps, we've been talking past each other instead of with each other throughout this discussion.
    Probably so. My position is more nuanced than merely "words can't hurt". What I'm saying is that they *can* hurt, but only insofar as they are 1) allowed to and 2) are deemed valid by the recipient. Words cannot hurt to the extent that current society has deemed them, thus the reaction by society is overblown and making things worse instead of better.
    I'm also not suggesting that anyone here is saying Garrett was in the right (this is mostly for Teegre). What I'm saying is that even as little as 10 years ago he wouldn't have even bothered to bring up this subject in his defense, and we wouldn't have bothered discussing it. It's a symptom of how out of whack society is right now.

    Hope this clears things up...
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  27. #117
    Senior Member Array title="HollywoodSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> HollywoodSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    I’ll try not to rehash exact points others have already made, but does anyone else think it’s just physically hard to imagine Rudolph formulating ANY kind of coherent words WHILE being sacked?

    When you’re actually taking the hit maybe you grunt or whatever, but throwing out a multi syllabic racially charged insult while taking a hit, and trying to protect the ball, and going to the ground? I don’t want to make light of it, but it’s comical to imagine such a thing.

    It seems WAY more likely that the only reason Myles’s is making that claim is because it’s the only moment he can think of when maybe no one else was very close to them. But still, if Rudolph said it while being hit it couldn’t have been a whisper or an aside.

    The physics of it just don’t seem plausible.

  28. #118
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Probably so. My position is more nuanced than merely "words can't hurt". What I'm saying is that they *can* hurt, but only insofar as they are 1) allowed to and 2) are deemed valid by the recipient. Words cannot hurt to the extent that current society has deemed them, thus the reaction by society is overblown and making things worse instead of better.
    I'm also not suggesting that anyone here is saying Garrett was in the right (this is mostly for Teegre). What I'm saying is that even as little as 10 years ago he wouldn't have even bothered to bring up this subject in his defense, and we wouldn't have bothered discussing it. It's a symptom of how out of whack society is right now.

    Hope this clears things up...
    So if the impact and consequences of words are a variable based on individuals, how can you offer blanket statements about what their impact is, has been historically, and should be? Isn't that just projecting your personal reactions as a society wide status quo?

    I mean we know people quit jobs and drop out of school based on people saying terrible things to them. That can have a pretty significant impact on someone's economic situation.

  29. #119
    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    So if the impact and consequences of words are a variable based on individuals, how can you offer blanket statements about what their impact is, has been historically, and should be? Isn't that just projecting your personal reactions as a society wide status quo?
    I can do that because I was alive and observed society for the last half a century. We were all fine up until a few years ago.

    I mean we know people quit jobs and drop out of school based on people saying terrible things to them. That can have a pretty significant impact on someone's economic situation.
    If people are doing that, they're weak and pathetic and weren't liable to amount to much anyway. And yeah, that's harsh... but having been in the military, the idea of somebody giving up just because "somebody called them names" is absurd.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  30. #120
    Senior Member Array title="Steeler-in-west has a spectacular aura about"> Steeler-in-west's Avatar

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    Re: Garrett Renews Claim Rudolph Called Him N***er

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    Iíll try not to rehash exact points others have already made, but does anyone else think itís just physically hard to imagine Rudolph formulating ANY kind of coherent words WHILE being sacked?

    When youíre actually taking the hit maybe you grunt or whatever, but throwing out a multi syllabic racially charged insult while taking a hit, and trying to protect the ball, and going to the ground? I donít want to make light of it, but itís comical to imagine such a thing.

    It seems WAY more likely that the only reason Mylesís is making that claim is because itís the only moment he can think of when maybe no one else was very close to them. But still, if Rudolph said it while being hit it couldnít have been a whisper or an aside.

    The physics of it just donít seem plausible.
    agreed, it just does seem so improbable. Itís far more likely that while Garrett was on top of him, Rudolph would yell Ďget off me MFer!í

    but, in this society it seems the mantra Ďa lie told often enough becomes the truthí is implemented a lot, maybe Garrett believes if he says it enough it will become truth to himself and others - sad

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