Do we want Ben back?

[RunNGun]

I've read a couple articles saying we should move on from Ben. I believe one was from Bleacher Report. Can't remember the other. I've also posted, in a different thread, my opinion on this.

I understand that the guys we have right now can't hold Ben's jockstrap. I also understand that it's hard to cut ties with a guy that has done so much for your franchise. However, the fact is, Ben is declining at a steep pace. He's not winning any more super bowls. He's also taking up a lot of cap space that could be used elsewhere.

The best we do next season is 8-8 or 10-6 and a 1st rd bounce from the playoffs, with a mediocre 1st rd draft pick that is too low to get our next franchise QB. I've never been a fan of tanking, but now would be the time to do it. If I'm running the show I'm forcing Ben out much like Troy Polamalu. I remember when TP retired and it was sad, but I believe it was time and the right decision.

After Ben is out I'm signing Joe Flacco or another veteran QB who has starting experience. At worst, the vet can help groom Rudolph and Duck. With Flacco and the bums at the helm, I believe we go no better than 6-10, increasing our chances for a top 10 pick to land a QB.

Trevor Lawrence would be on my radar, and I'd do what it takes to make sure he's a Steeler. In this years draft I would be drafting his protection. (Draft the passer, protect the passer, rush the passer) Not many super bowls are won in this era without an elite QB, which is why I'm ok with sacrificing a mediocre season to land the best prospect since Andrew Luck, in Trevor Lawrence.

To put into perspective, is it worth riding Ben for another mediocre season, while also being left with a 20+ draft pick where we could quite possibly be reaching for a QB, or cutting ties now, and take the ass beatings next year to land a possible sure thing? Imo, keeping Ben around is going to further the rebuilding process, while potentially making things worse before they get better when he does decide to hang it up.

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Begin the roast

[SteeleReign]

I've read a couple articles saying we should move on from Ben. I believe one was from Bleacher Report. Can't remember the other. I've also posted, in a different thread, my opinion on this.

I understand that the guys we have right now can't hold Ben's jockstrap. I also understand that it's hard to cut ties with a guy that has done so much for your franchise. However, the fact is, Ben is declining at a steep pace. He's not winning any more super bowls. He's also taking up a lot of cap space that could be used elsewhere.

The best we do next season is 8-8 or 10-6 and a 1st rd bounce from the playoffs, with a mediocre 1st rd draft pick that is too low to get our next franchise QB. I've never been a fan of tanking, but now would be the time to do it. If I'm running the show I'm forcing Ben out much like Troy Polamalu. I remember when TP retired and it was sad, but I believe it was time and the right decision.

After Ben is out I'm signing Joe Flacco or another veteran QB who has starting experience. At worst, the vet can help groom Rudolph and Duck. With Flacco and the bums at the helm, I believe we go no better than 6-10, increasing our chances for a top 10 pick to land a QB.

Trevor Lawrence would be on my radar, and I'd do what it takes to make sure he's a Steeler. In this years draft I would be drafting his protection. (Draft the passer, protect the passer, rush the passer) Not many super bowls are won in this era without an elite QB, which is why I'm ok with sacrificing a mediocre season to land the best prospect since Andrew Luck, in Trevor Lawrence.

To put into perspective, is it worth riding Ben for another mediocre season, while also being left with a 20+ draft pick where we could quite possibly be reaching for a QB, or cutting ties now, and take the ass beatings next year to land a possible sure thing? Imo, keeping Ben around is going to further the rebuilding process, while potentially making things worse before they get better when he does decide to hang it up.

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Begin the roast

You keep Ben because you believe you can win a Superbowl with him, whether it's realistic or not.

If you go 10-6 and get bounced, you draft as needed in the trenches in 2021. Sign a journeyman QB if you must for 2021-2, then find your QB in 2022.

If Ben is healthy, he's back because we can win it all with him. (Best case)

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[RunNGun]

You keep Ben because you believe you can win a Superbowl with him, whether it's realistic or not.

If you go 10-6 and get bounced, you draft as needed in the trenches in 2021. Sign a journeyman QB if you must for 2021-2, then find your QB in 2022.

If Ben is healthy, he's back because we can win it all with him. (Best case)

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I respect the optimism, and I believe that is the exact plan going forward, but that's also 2 years before we potentially get our next franchise QB and 3 to 4 years before we are considered contenders if all goes accordingly.

[SteeleReign]

I respect the optimism, and I believe that is the exact plan going forward, but that's also 2 years before we potentially get our next franchise QB and 3 to 4 years before we are considered contenders if all goes accordingly.

That's not unusual for a team transitioning from a franchise quarterback. They don't grow on trees.

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[AtlantaDan]

I've read a couple articles saying we should move on from Ben. I believe one was from Bleacher Report. Can't remember the other. I've also posted, in a different thread, my opinion on this.

I understand that the guys we have right now can't hold Ben's jockstrap. I also understand that it's hard to cut ties with a guy that has done so much for your franchise. However, the fact is, Ben is declining at a steep pace. He's not winning any more super bowls. He's also taking up a lot of cap space that could be used elsewhere.

The best we do next season is 8-8 or 10-6 and a 1st rd bounce from the playoffs, with a mediocre 1st rd draft pick that is too low to get our next franchise QB. I've never been a fan of tanking, but now would be the time to do it. If I'm running the show I'm forcing Ben out much like Troy Polamalu. I remember when TP retired and it was sad, but I believe it was time and the right decision.

After Ben is out I'm signing Joe Flacco or another veteran QB who has starting experience. At worst, the vet can help groom Rudolph and Duck. With Flacco and the bums at the helm, I believe we go no better than 6-10, increasing our chances for a top 10 pick to land a QB.

Trevor Lawrence would be on my radar, and I'd do what it takes to make sure he's a Steeler. In this years draft I would be drafting his protection. (Draft the passer, protect the passer, rush the passer) Not many super bowls are won in this era without an elite QB, which is why I'm ok with sacrificing a mediocre season to land the best prospect since Andrew Luck, in Trevor Lawrence.

To put into perspective, is it worth riding Ben for another mediocre season, while also being left with a 20+ draft pick where we could quite possibly be reaching for a QB, or cutting ties now, and take the ass beatings next year to land a possible sure thing? Imo, keeping Ben around is going to further the rebuilding process, while potentially making things worse before they get better when he does decide to hang it up.

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Begin the roast

Drafting QBs is a crapshoot. Smart guys who do this for a living passed on Mahomes. Since he roasted Alabama a year ago everyone was swooning for Lawrence, but he had a mediocre night against a pedestrian LSU defense this year. Add to that even a sure thing can get hurt (eg Andrew Luck) and giving up on a season by putting your hopes and dreams on hopefully drafting one player as your Messiah is at best risky and at worst catastrophic for years to come

Intentionally tanking a season can both be unsuccessful (the Dolphins looked like the worst team of all time in October and ended up beating the Pats to end their season) and alienate your players (one reason the Steelers got Minkah was he was adamant about wanting out of Miami).

The Steelers have sought to be competitive every year and I see no reason to change that for 2020 even if AJRII, Colbert & Tomlin were receptive to the idea of tanking (spoiler alert - they are not)

[RunNGun]

Drafting QBs is a crapshoot. Smart guys who do this for a living passed on Mahomes. Since he roasted Alabama a year ago everyone was swooning for Lawrence, but he had a mediocre night against a pedestrian LSU defense this year. Add to that even a sure thing can get hurt (eg Andrew Luck) and giving up on a season by putting your hopes and dreams on hopefully drafting one player as your Messiah is at best risky and at worst catastrophic for years to come

Intentionally tanking a season can both be unsuccessful (the Dolphins looked like the worst team of all time in October and ended up beating the Pats to end their season) and alienate your players (one reason the Steelers got Minkah was he was adamant about wanting out of Miami).

The Steelers have sought to be competitive every year and I see no reason to change that for 2020 even if AJRII, Colbert & Tomlin were receptive to the idea of tanking (spoiler alert - they are not)

It is a crapshoot, agreed. I disagree with the injury argument though...you don't pass on a talent like Lawrence because you're worried he will get injured...sure it can happen, but that can be said about every player in the league. I definitely would not call LSU's defense pedestrian in the slightest. Yes, I said tanking, but not deliberately. You're still trying to win games, but you don't have the roster capable of doing so. I would never expect this franchise of tanking deliberately.

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That's not unusual for a team transitioning from a franchise quarterback. They don't grow on trees.

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My argument is "tanking" for Lawrence could cut that timeframe in half

[SteeleReign]

It is a crapshoot, agreed. I disagree with the injury argument though...you don't pass on a talent like Lawrence because you're worried he will get injured...sure it can happen, but that can be said about every player in the league. I definitely would not call LSU's defense pedestrian in the slightest. Yes, I said tanking, but not deliberately. You're still trying to win games, but you don't have the roster capable of doing so. I would never expect this franchise of tanking deliberately.

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My argument is "tanking" for Lawrence could cut that timeframe in half

Setting aside the fact that the Steelers would never (and shouldn't) tank, you're taking some huge gambles with this plan.

The Steelers have missed the playoffs the last 2 years, both with and without Ben. To assume that cutting Ben and signing a veteran, or sticking with Mason and Duck, will in effect, "tank" our season enough to draft a franchise quarterback is a huge gamble.

That, of course, ignores the titanic-sized gamble that ANY quarterback will turn out to be a franchise player.

If you were to make a case that Ben's elbow is a risk this year and he may only play at a 70% level, that changes the equation.

Now it's about finding a better investment for that 33m and beginning the rebuild sooner.

The condition of Ben's elbow is the ONLY factor that will influence his zip code next year, and will have a major trickle-down effect on the rest of the roster decisions the FO needs to make.

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[RunNGun]

Setting aside the fact that the Steelers would never (and shouldn't) tank, you're taking some huge gambles with this plan.

The Steelers have missed the playoffs the last 2 years, both with and without Ben. To assume that cutting Ben and signing a veteran, or sticking with Mason and Duck, will in effect, "tank" our season enough to draft a franchise quarterback is a huge gamble.

That, of course, ignores the titanic-sized gamble that ANY quarterback will turn out to be a franchise player.

If you were to make a case that Ben's elbow is a risk this year and he may only play at a 70% level, that changes the equation.

Now it's about finding a better investment for that 33m and beginning the rebuild sooner.

The condition of Ben's elbow is the ONLY factor that will influence his zip code next year, and will have a major trickle-down effect on the rest of the roster decisions the FO needs to make.

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Yes, it's undoubtedly a high risk, high reward plan, but not as catastrophic as you make it out to be. No matter what way you look at it, this team will be in rebuild mode the second Ben retires. Our Oline is aging, our RBs are soft, our TE is made of glass, and we have no true #1 WR. Say we do cut ties with Ben and a veteran backup or Rudolph leads us to a .500 record., which is better than planned. It's not the end of the world. We still have a decent draft pick to plug a hole other than QB. Then we would have to go the journey man route at QB, but we would also have quite a bit of cap space if I'm not mistaken.

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You lost me as soon as you said Flacco for Ben. If his armis 100% I want no other QB...Flacco for Ben smh

Do you not understand tanking?

[SteeleReign]

Yes, it's undoubtedly a high risk, high reward plan, but not as catastrophic as you make it out to be. No matter what way you look at it, this team will be in rebuild mode the second Ben retires. Our Oline is aging, our RBs are soft, our TE is made of glass, and we have no true #1 WR. Say we do cut ties with Ben and a veteran backup or Rudolph leads us to a .500 record., which is better than planned. It's not the end of the world. We still have a decent draft pick to plug a hole other than QB. Then we would have to go the journey man route at QB, but we would also have quite a bit of cap space if I'm not mistaken.

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Do you not understand tanking?

I get your point, but if Ben is 100%, do you not think we're a playoff contender? Especially with the quality of our defense?

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[vasteeler]

Yes, it's undoubtedly a high risk, high reward plan, but not as catastrophic as you make it out to be. No matter what way you look at it, this team will be in rebuild mode the second Ben retires. Our Oline is aging, our RBs are soft, our TE is made of glass, and we have no true #1 WR. Say we do cut ties with Ben and a veteran backup or Rudolph leads us to a .500 record., which is better than planned. It's not the end of the world. We still have a decent draft pick to plug a hole other than QB. Then we would have to go the journey man route at QB, but we would also have quite a bit of cap space if I'm not mistaken.

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Do you not understand tanking?

I totally understand. There is no reason to tank. With the way the defense is playing and Ben returning we have just as good of a shot as anybody in the AFC. With a healthy Ben we will be in the mix for the next few years.

[vasteeler]

You lost me as soon as you said Flacco for Ben. If his armis 100% I want no other QB...Flacco for Ben smh

[SteeleReign]

You lost me as soon as you said Flacco for Ben. If his armis 100% I want no other QB...Flacco for Ben smh

Yeah, me too. Threw up in my mouth a little on that one.

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[smokin3000gt]

Flacco for Ben would result in a lot of DirecTV cancellations

[st33lersguy]

They have too much talent on defense to finish with the worst record. Worst case scenario with this defense is 6-10

I say you want Ben back and hope he returns to form. That is the most likely thing and the best chance at a Super Bowl

[RunNGun]

They have too much talent on defense to finish with the worst record. Worst case scenario with this defense is 6-10

I say you want Ben back and hope he returns to form. That is the most likely thing and the best chance at a Super Bowl

Too many people are hoping Ben turns back the clock. I'm one of them, but when I take my Steelers goggles off I see an old QB who has lost a lot of zip. Maybe he gets some of that back, maybe he doesn't, but that's not even the biggest issue. It's his feet and his legs. What made him great in the past was his ability to improvise. Without that he doesn't have a lot to offer. I agree though, it will be very difficult to lose more than 10 games with this defense.

[vasteeler]

Too many people are hoping Ben turns back the clock. I'm one of them, but when I take my Steelers goggles off I see an old QB who has lost a lot of zip. Maybe he gets some of that back, maybe he doesn't, but that's not even the biggest issue. It's his feet and his legs. What made him great in the past was his ability to improvise. Without that he doesn't have a lot to offer. I agree though, it will be very difficult to lose more than 10 games with this defense.

No offense but you obviously didn't watch Ben the year before he got hurt. If I'm not mistaken didn't lead league in passing yards that year.

[RunNGun]

No offense but you obviously didn't watch Ben the year before he got hurt. If I'm not mistaken didn't lead league in passing yards that year.

He did. He also lead the leage in attempts and ints. He's missing something from that season though. Arguably one of the best WRs to lace em up.

[Butch]

He did. He also lead the leage in attempts and ints. He's missing something from that season though. Arguably one of the best WRs to lace em up.

ROFLMAO yes the headcase who has an entire thread based on his antics and has been going strong ever since it very early this past season. Addition by subtraction.

[st33lersguy]

Too many people are hoping Ben turns back the clock. I'm one of them, but when I take my Steelers goggles off I see an old QB who has lost a lot of zip. Maybe he gets some of that back, maybe he doesn't, but that's not even the biggest issue. It's his feet and his legs. What made him great in the past was his ability to improvise. Without that he doesn't have a lot to offer. I agree though, it will be very difficult to lose more than 10 games with this defense.

At this point though he offers the best chance of having great QB play in 2020 and 2021. Name me someone else that has a better chance that they can get? Phillip Rivers? Lol

[Rotorhead]

Wow, going to be a long offseason, let’s forget the fact Ben has one of his best statistical seasons 2 years ago, or the fact we make the playoffs if our kicker didn’t fall off a cliff. Or the fact that we were an average QB from a deep playoff run this season (Ben will he far better than average as long as his elbow is healed). You better enjoy the time with Ben, when he is gone, it will be long seasons of missed playoffs unless we get lucky and find a replacement.

[T&B fan]

the Steelers will not tank . its not in the DNA . they might suck at times but to tank intentionally .no don't see it happening .

[Hawkman]

the Steelers will not tank . its not in the DNA . they might suck at times but to tank intentionally .no don't see it happening .

THIS!

[RunNGun]

THIS!

I don't mean to intentionally tank, but if you force Ben into retirement then you're essentially giving up 2 to 3 wins if not more.

[pczach]

I don't mean to intentionally tank, but if you force Ben into retirement then you're essentially giving up 2 to 3 wins if not more.

That's not tanking. To get Lawrence, they would have to be a 2-win team. That isn't happening with the current roster. They would also need to let everyone walk and blow up the roster to be that bad.

Let's say all of that happens. Then they draft Lawrence and he's playing with a shitty roster and we don't know that he will be a great player. That would be a disaster.

In my opinion, you never tank. The team is a QB and a player or two from being as good or better than
anyone.

Roll with Big Ben and try to make a run.

[DesertSteel]

I’m hoping we let Ben go and roll with Duck in 2020.

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I was born a Steelers fan. My dad is from Pittsburgh. Who AB is now and how Bell is producing in NY has nothing to do with this topic. AB was the most productive WR in the NFL for 5 or 6 seasons and a huge asset to our offense. Bell was arguably the best RB in that period as well. Neither of their production has been replaced. Now we are expecting a 40 year old Ben to carry this team to a Super Bowl with a shotty Oline and unproven skill players.

Ben isn’t 40.

[RunNGun]

I’m hoping we let Ben go and roll with Duck in 2020.

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Ben isn’t 40.

I'm glad we're on the same page

[DesertSteel]

I'm hoping he retires.

[Mojouw]

Not rostering Ben saves 8.5 million with a release or a trade. Unless you start Mason Rudolph in 2020, that "savings" goes right back out the door for a tank QB.

A year from now the savings is $19 million.

If anything this is a year too early to consider.

I guess if a team, say the Bears, was willing to give you a bunch of 2020 and 2021 picks you thought you could bundle and get to the 2021 first overall, maybe? But what team that has a shot at the 2021 #1 is moving off that spot?

Even without Ben, you'd have to guy the rest of the roster to not accidentally win 5 games.

[RunNGun]

Not rostering Ben saves 8.5 million with a release or a trade. Unless you start Mason Rudolph in 2020, that "savings" goes right back out the door for a tank QB.

A year from now the savings is $19 million.

If anything this is a year too early to consider.

I guess if a team, say the Bears, was willing to give you a bunch of 2020 and 2021 picks you thought you could bundle and get to the 2021 first overall, maybe? But what team that has a shot at the 2021 #1 is moving off that spot?

Even without Ben, you'd have to guy the rest of the roster to not accidentally win 5 games.

I know it's a long shot. They would have to let Dupree and Hargrave walk, which is possible. If that does happen I would shave at least 2 more wins.

A lot of things would have to go our way because you're right, they will not have the worst record in the league by any means. They' would have to get in the top 3 to have a chance and hope that the 2 teams ahead of them had recently drafted QBs.

[Butch]

You say it's a fact that Ben is on a steep decline but what are you basing that on? Is it the article you read on Bleacher Report? Something else?
You also say it's a fact that we won't win a SB with him why? Ravens amongst others have won SBs with much less.
Next you want to tank a season to get a QB who is unproven in the NFL. While that QB maybe Dan Marino or Joe Montana it is more likely he is Jamarcus Russel, Mark Malone, or Philip Rivers. No matter what the QB has done in college there is no such thing as a sure bet.
Then you say we should tank a season? Really? You are going to tell that to Minkah who left the Dolphins because it looked like they were going to tank a season? Say what you will that is not going to happen, nor should it. Like I say there is no sure thing. Also with the tanking thing...we went 500 this season with 2 (basically) rookie QBs if we even have a decent QB that D will carry us a loooong ways.
Ben is a statue in the pocket??? Where did you get that from?

I don't know if Ben will be back to the way he was in his last full season after the surgery or not, but I am much more optimistic than some that he will at the very least be as good. I have not seen anything at this point that tells me different. I don't base anything, (Ben related) on what happened this year as it was only 1 full game.