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Thread: Do we want Ben back?

  1. #211
    Senior Member Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Born2Steel's Avatar

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    But going from 3-5 to 18 is losing it. It's MJ for the Wizards. Sure he was still averaging 20 ppg but it was over.
    No it's not.

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    But going from 3-5 to 18 is losing it. It's MJ for the Wizards. Sure he was still averaging 20 ppg but it was over.
    Yeah, I wonder how many other NFL teams are saying "If we can just get Ben Roethlisberger next season, we can win the Super Bowl."

    Packers? Bills? Saints? Browns? Rams? Seahawks? Colts? Titans? Bears?

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Yeah, I wonder how many other NFL teams are saying "If we can just get Ben Roethlisberger next season, we can win the Super Bowl."

    Packers? Bills? Saints? Browns? Rams? Seahawks? Colts? Titans? Bears?
    But it isn't about other teams or players. Apparently, for some reason.

    I honestly don't know if that any team would sign Ben if he were to hit the open market. Certainly not as the "unquestioned starter".

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    No it's not.
    It's over in regards to winning Super Bowls.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    He will be back next season, so all of this moot.

    Go back and take a look at the play calling and the offensive approach before the first Ravens game. That was a more balanced approach. But even then, Ben wasn't hitting his shots and was inaccurate on throws at all levels.

    Everyone immediately reads anything said in this manner as an attempt to defend Fichnter...and it is not. He stinks and needed to go. But we can look at the rest of it and either conclude that Ben was hampered by a dum-dum coordinator or that a dum-dum coordinator had a diminished QB and this nonsense was all he could come up with.

    I freely acknowledge that this sets up a spectrum between 2 extremes. The reality can be anywhere along that continuum. No one would be happier if the story of the 2021 season is the triumphant return Ben Roethlisberger. But we have a few seasons worth of evidence now. I thought the elbow was the reason for his evaporated accuracy in 2017-2018. Yes, I know he racked up the league lead in yards. It was also on a massive league leading number of attempts. Well that got "fixed" and he was still scattershot. All I am left with, because, really what do I know, is that Father Time has reaped another great player.


    I don't think you're defending Fichtner. It is extremely possible to think Fichtner sucks and that Ben is done.

    The question really becomes whether the team believes they can win with Ben next year, and if they believe it is in the team's best interests.

    If they believe that they can make a run with Ben and he can play a couple years...they might try it.

    If they think he is no longer capable of giving a team a chance to win it all, they move on....and they need to move on if that's the case. Football is a bottom line business...both on a balance sheet and on the field. If he isn't getting it done, he needs to be gone for the greater good. That's football.
    Last edited by pczach; 01-25-2021 at 09:01 PM.

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    But it isn't about other teams or players. Apparently, for some reason.

    I honestly don't know if that any team would sign Ben if he were to hit the open market. Certainly not as the "unquestioned starter".
    I don't think any other teams, nor their fanbases are believing that the soon to be 39 year old Ben Roethlisberger is the last missing piece to their team winning a Super Bowl. For a future Hall of Fame QB to be viewed in that way, to me signals that he no longer possesses the skills or ability to be that QB that can lead a team to anything but competitiveness, at best.

    Its just that a lot of sentimental Steeler fans and maybe coaches, still think that is good enough.

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    Senior Member Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Born2Steel's Avatar

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    I think there are a few teams that would sign Ben tomorrow. Did the Colts plan to build a dynasty with Rivers last season? How many teams recently signed older veteran QBs that would think maybe Ben would have been a better choice? Of course Ben has gotten older and is physically wearing down, I never argued he wasn't. My argument has always been against Ben is DONE, Ben can't COMPETE ANYMORE, Ben can't THROW DOWNFIELD WITH ACCURACY, those are the BS statements I have argued against. Ben's arm was not the problem with the 2020 offense. If you think bring in 'X' QB and let them deal with the drops, lack of run game, and poor playcalling, and the results would have been much better at all, then you're just wrong.

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    I think there are a few teams that would sign Ben tomorrow. Did the Colts plan to build a dynasty with Rivers last season? How many teams recently signed older veteran QBs that would think maybe Ben would have been a better choice? Of course Ben has gotten older and is physically wearing down, I never argued he wasn't. My argument has always been against Ben is DONE, Ben can't COMPETE ANYMORE, Ben can't THROW DOWNFIELD WITH ACCURACY, those are the BS statements I have argued against. Ben's arm was not the problem with the 2020 offense. If you think bring in 'X' QB and let them deal with the drops, lack of run game, and poor playcalling, and the results would have been much better at all, then you're just wrong.
    Of the 4 INT Ben threw in the wildcard game, 3 of them were bad throws by him. Into the arms of a defender for the first, the pass to the WR was high and behind on the 2nd and the pick to TakiTaki was straight to a LB sitting in coverage. Not to mention some missed placement of many other passes in that game that ended up incomplete. Ben is no longer a big time player, to be expected to make big time plays in wildcard playoff games.

    Some other teams that are in the bottom 1/3 of the league might want Ben, if they have a young QB to mentor, or havent been able to draft one. If we as Steelers fans are fine with competing for Wildcard playoff spots, or just missing the playoffs, then Ben is the guy to keep playing at QB for the team. At this point, 39 year olf Ben is just striving to be as good as Vinny Testaverde was, approaching 40.

    The OC and playcalling wasnt good. But Ben missing throws that he used to make 5 years ago wasnt good either. The run is over, just a few folks dont know that yet.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Of the 4 INT Ben threw in the wildcard game, 3 of them were bad throws by him. Into the arms of a defender for the first, the pass to the WR was high and behind on the 2nd and the pick to TakiTaki was straight to a LB sitting in coverage. Not to mention some missed placement of many other passes in that game that ended up incomplete. Ben is no longer a big time player, to be expected to make big time plays in wildcard playoff games.

    Some other teams that are in the bottom 1/3 of the league might want Ben, if they have a young QB to mentor, or havent been able to draft one. If we as Steelers fans are fine with competing for Wildcard playoff spots, or just missing the playoffs, then Ben is the guy to keep playing at QB for the team. At this point, 39 year olf Ben is just striving to be as good as Vinny Testaverde was, approaching 40.

    The OC and playcalling wasnt good. But Ben missing throws that he used to make 5 years ago wasnt good either. The run is over, just a few folks dont know that yet.
    The 'run' is more over than on the rise. I think everybody without exception knows that. But to claim Ben can no longer complete downfield passes is just erroneous exaggeration. Proof, the late season Steelers beat the Colts in the second half in comeback fashion on Ben's arm. Another, after putting the Steelers in the hole in the wildcard game, Ben threw us back into contention in that game. Defense playing off or not, the throws were made downfield and on target, 500 yards worth.

    I doubt Ben is the scrambler he once was. Maybe he can't prolong plays with his legs nor want to stand in there and take hits all season long anymore. That part of his game was gone last season. But don't tell me he doesn't still make all the throws.

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    STEELER NATION RULES ! Array title="katmandu has much to be proud of"> katmandu's Avatar

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    The main thing I noticed with Ben this season is that he was forcing balls at times and not going through his progressions. Just in the last few games he missed seeing wide open receivers. He was still reading defenses, pre-snap, fine but after snap, it seems like his progressional reads were bad.
    I agree. KInda like he just said..... Ah....fukkk it.... and threw the ball anyways KNOWING he was gambling.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    The question really becomes whether the team believes they can win with Ben next year, and if they believe it is in the team's best interests.
    Im hoping he comes to terms with himself and realizes he's at the end of the road.
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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Let’s not forget the biggest issue this season not really mentioned, he just has shoulder surgery and the plan turned into using his short passing game as a replacement for the nonexistent running game. Hell, he set a record for pass attempts in a playoff game, on a just repaired arm . . . I would bet money his arm was the issue at the end of the season simply because he threw more passes than ever and he didn’t have time to get a good offseason rest on it. We will see if that is the case next year, but I do think that was a big part of his drop off this season.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorhead View Post
    Let’s not forget the biggest issue this season not really mentioned, he just has shoulder surgery and the plan turned into using his short passing game as a replacement for the nonexistent running game. Hell, he set a record for pass attempts in a playoff game, on a just repaired arm . . . I would bet money his arm was the issue at the end of the season simply because he threw more passes than ever and he didn’t have time to get a good offseason rest on it. We will see if that is the case next year, but I do think that was a big part of his drop off this season.
    I think you've got on the big unknown in all this for me. If Ben plays in 2021 and can resume normal strength and conditioning now instead of a slower post surgery ramp up - what does that look like? Was there in issue related to that at all in 2020? Who knows? Certainly not fans on the internet.

    I strongly suspect we will hear a great deal about "best shape" and "renewed approach to off season preparation" if he comes back.

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    STEELER NATION RULES ! Array title="katmandu has much to be proud of"> katmandu's Avatar

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I think you've got on the big unknown in all this for me. If Ben plays in 2021 and can resume normal strength and conditioning now instead of a slower post surgery ramp up - what does that look like? Was there in issue related to that at all in 2020? Who knows? Certainly not fans on the internet.
    Question is .... Is the Front Office willing to gamble 41 Mil to see what he looks like ?

    Personally, I don't think they're willing to take that bet. He "may" get the Troy option given to him.
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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by katmandu View Post
    Question is .... Is the Front Office willing to gamble 41 Mil to see what he looks like ?

    Personally, I don't think they're willing to take that bet. He "may" get the Troy option given to him.
    He may. And if he refuses to rework his deal to shift the cap $$$ around, it may push the team to push him out the door and into Canton.

    With the roster bonus coming due in March, this whole thing likely gets resolved far sooner than later.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by katmandu View Post
    Question is .... Is the Front Office willing to gamble 41 Mil to see what he looks like ?

    Personally, I don't think they're willing to take that bet. He "may" get the Troy option given to him.
    They are on the book for what, $29mil if he doesn’t play, what difference does it make at this point. Next year we either have him or we have MR as our starter. We will be rebuilding our OL regardless, then the year after will be our real restart with a shiny new QB and lots of cap room.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    But don't tell me he doesn't still make all the throws.
    Ben isnt as accurate as he used to be. He doesnt have the arm strength that he used to have. His mind tells him that he can make throws, which his body no longer allows him to. Its like Favre at the end of his career.



    Here is 38 year old Ben, thinking he is 28 year old Ben and not checking down to the open crossing route underneath. Because he thinks he has the arm strength to beat the triple coverage.



    If I had the video of the wildcard game, I would show Ben having Ebron on an out in the endzone, that he threw 10 feet in the air, so that Ebron was unable to catch it. Erratic accuracy.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Ben isnt as accurate as he used to be. He doesnt have the arm strength that he used to have. His mind tells him that he can make throws, which his body no longer allows him to. Its like Favre at the end of his career.



    Here is 38 year old Ben, thinking he is 28 year old Ben and not checking down to the open crossing route underneath. Because he thinks he has the arm strength to beat the triple coverage.



    If I had the video of the wildcard game, I would show Ben having Ebron on an out in the endzone, that he threw 10 feet in the air, so that Ebron was unable to catch it. Erratic accuracy.
    And 75% of his throws were on target. But thanks anyway.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by katmandu View Post

    Im hoping he comes to terms with himself and realizes he's at the end of the road.
    Ben will not realize that. He will be back next season if the Steelers and his agent can come to an agreement of how to reduce the largest cap hit of any NFL player for 2021. Ben enjoys the attention and I think the Steelers like the idea of being able to sit Haskins and Rudolph behind a veteran for 1 more year.

    Haskins will be 24 this spring and a year sitting behind a veteran QB, in a place where he is accepted by the coach, rather than being somebody he didnt want, could be a real good place to develop.

    I dont think the Steelers are in any position to win a Super Bowl for at least 5 years, so the plan to rebuild has to start. Just going to be interesting to see where it starts from, but Ben having the self awareness and coming to the realization that he has greatly diminished skills and retiring, isnt likely to happen IMO.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Keep Ben. What difference does it make honestly? What are the chances the Steelers would get a franchise QB immediately?

    I like watching the Steelers as is. It's entertaining.

    Also I don't trust Tomlin's input in selecting a QB. Decision needs to be Colbert's alone. How did the Steelers not take Lamar Jackson? They took every other running QB: Dixon, Dobbs, Vick. But they don't want a generational scrambler? I will never understand that. Would I have drafted Jackson? No. But there is no consistent identity with the Steelers and I don't think they know what they want to do on offense.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Has Steelers’ Nation soured on Ben Roethlisberger?

    Are those who suggest the Steelers need to move on from Roethlisberger in the majority, or are they just screaming louder than everyone else?

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...r-elbow-injury

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    He may. And if he refuses to rework his deal to shift the cap $$$ around, it may push the team to push him out the door and into Canton.

    With the roster bonus coming due in March, this whole thing likely gets resolved far sooner than later.
    Most definitely. They can't wait until close to that deadline to figure this out, because if the front office has any designs on keeping some of their own free agents they need to take care of that before the new league year and free agency starts.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloydwoodsonjr View Post
    Also I don't trust Tomlin's input in selecting a QB. Decision needs to be Colbert's alone. How did the Steelers not take Lamar Jackson? They took every other running QB: Dixon, Dobbs, Vick. But they don't want a generational scrambler? I will never understand that. Would I have drafted Jackson? No. But there is no consistent identity with the Steelers and I don't think they know what they want to do on offense.
    Technically, Tomlin was extremely high on Lamar Jackson. (I was actually surprised that he was not the pick.)

    Considering how Ben reacted (poorly) to Rudolph being drafted in R3, I can only imagine the animosity that would have resulted from a QB being drafted in R1.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Report: Steelers, Roethlisberger expected to talk contract after Super Bowl

    Alex Chippin

    The Pittsburgh Steelers and Ben Roethlisberger are expected to meet after the Super Bowl to discuss the quarterback's future and contract, a source told ESPN's Jeremy Fowler.

    The two sides are expected to work on a contract restructure or extension that would lower his $41-million cap hit in 2021.

    Steelers president Art Rooney II recently confirmed Roethlisberger intends to play next season but said the 38-year-old won't be welcomed back unless he renegotiates his deal. The $41-million cap charge projects to be the largest of any player in the NFL in 2021, and the Steelers could save $19 million by releasing him.

    For his part, Roethlisberger has indicated a willingness to redo his contract, saying he doesn't care "at all" about his pay next season.

    Pittsburgh is one of several teams facing a salary crunch in light of a falling cap. The Steelers also have two marquee players - wide receiver JuJu Smith-Schuster and edge rusher Bud Dupree - in line to hit the open market in March.

    Roethlisberger has spent his entire 17-year career in Pittsburgh, leading the franchise to three Super Bowl appearances and two titles. He threw 33 touchdowns and 10 interceptions in 2020, fading down the stretch after a strong start to the campaign.

    https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/2106887

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