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Thread: Do we want Ben back?

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    Do we want Ben back?

    I've read a couple articles saying we should move on from Ben. I believe one was from Bleacher Report. Can't remember the other. I've also posted, in a different thread, my opinion on this.

    I understand that the guys we have right now can't hold Ben's jockstrap. I also understand that it's hard to cut ties with a guy that has done so much for your franchise. However, the fact is, Ben is declining at a steep pace. He's not winning any more super bowls. He's also taking up a lot of cap space that could be used elsewhere.

    The best we do next season is 8-8 or 10-6 and a 1st rd bounce from the playoffs, with a mediocre 1st rd draft pick that is too low to get our next franchise QB. I've never been a fan of tanking, but now would be the time to do it. If I'm running the show I'm forcing Ben out much like Troy Polamalu. I remember when TP retired and it was sad, but I believe it was time and the right decision.

    After Ben is out I'm signing Joe Flacco or another veteran QB who has starting experience. At worst, the vet can help groom Rudolph and Duck. With Flacco and the bums at the helm, I believe we go no better than 6-10, increasing our chances for a top 10 pick to land a QB.

    Trevor Lawrence would be on my radar, and I'd do what it takes to make sure he's a Steeler. In this years draft I would be drafting his protection. (Draft the passer, protect the passer, rush the passer) Not many super bowls are won in this era without an elite QB, which is why I'm ok with sacrificing a mediocre season to land the best prospect since Andrew Luck, in Trevor Lawrence.

    To put into perspective, is it worth riding Ben for another mediocre season, while also being left with a 20+ draft pick where we could quite possibly be reaching for a QB, or cutting ties now, and take the ass beatings next year to land a possible sure thing? Imo, keeping Ben around is going to further the rebuilding process, while potentially making things worse before they get better when he does decide to hang it up.

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    Begin the roast

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    I've read a couple articles saying we should move on from Ben. I believe one was from Bleacher Report. Can't remember the other. I've also posted, in a different thread, my opinion on this.

    I understand that the guys we have right now can't hold Ben's jockstrap. I also understand that it's hard to cut ties with a guy that has done so much for your franchise. However, the fact is, Ben is declining at a steep pace. He's not winning any more super bowls. He's also taking up a lot of cap space that could be used elsewhere.

    The best we do next season is 8-8 or 10-6 and a 1st rd bounce from the playoffs, with a mediocre 1st rd draft pick that is too low to get our next franchise QB. I've never been a fan of tanking, but now would be the time to do it. If I'm running the show I'm forcing Ben out much like Troy Polamalu. I remember when TP retired and it was sad, but I believe it was time and the right decision.

    After Ben is out I'm signing Joe Flacco or another veteran QB who has starting experience. At worst, the vet can help groom Rudolph and Duck. With Flacco and the bums at the helm, I believe we go no better than 6-10, increasing our chances for a top 10 pick to land a QB.

    Trevor Lawrence would be on my radar, and I'd do what it takes to make sure he's a Steeler. In this years draft I would be drafting his protection. (Draft the passer, protect the passer, rush the passer) Not many super bowls are won in this era without an elite QB, which is why I'm ok with sacrificing a mediocre season to land the best prospect since Andrew Luck, in Trevor Lawrence.

    To put into perspective, is it worth riding Ben for another mediocre season, while also being left with a 20+ draft pick where we could quite possibly be reaching for a QB, or cutting ties now, and take the ass beatings next year to land a possible sure thing? Imo, keeping Ben around is going to further the rebuilding process, while potentially making things worse before they get better when he does decide to hang it up.

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    Begin the roast
    You keep Ben because you believe you can win a Superbowl with him, whether it's realistic or not.

    If you go 10-6 and get bounced, you draft as needed in the trenches in 2021. Sign a journeyman QB if you must for 2021-2, then find your QB in 2022.

    If Ben is healthy, he's back because we can win it all with him. (Best case)

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    I've read a couple articles saying we should move on from Ben. I believe one was from Bleacher Report. Can't remember the other. I've also posted, in a different thread, my opinion on this.

    I understand that the guys we have right now can't hold Ben's jockstrap. I also understand that it's hard to cut ties with a guy that has done so much for your franchise. However, the fact is, Ben is declining at a steep pace. He's not winning any more super bowls. He's also taking up a lot of cap space that could be used elsewhere.

    The best we do next season is 8-8 or 10-6 and a 1st rd bounce from the playoffs, with a mediocre 1st rd draft pick that is too low to get our next franchise QB. I've never been a fan of tanking, but now would be the time to do it. If I'm running the show I'm forcing Ben out much like Troy Polamalu. I remember when TP retired and it was sad, but I believe it was time and the right decision.

    After Ben is out I'm signing Joe Flacco or another veteran QB who has starting experience. At worst, the vet can help groom Rudolph and Duck. With Flacco and the bums at the helm, I believe we go no better than 6-10, increasing our chances for a top 10 pick to land a QB.

    Trevor Lawrence would be on my radar, and I'd do what it takes to make sure he's a Steeler. In this years draft I would be drafting his protection. (Draft the passer, protect the passer, rush the passer) Not many super bowls are won in this era without an elite QB, which is why I'm ok with sacrificing a mediocre season to land the best prospect since Andrew Luck, in Trevor Lawrence.

    To put into perspective, is it worth riding Ben for another mediocre season, while also being left with a 20+ draft pick where we could quite possibly be reaching for a QB, or cutting ties now, and take the ass beatings next year to land a possible sure thing? Imo, keeping Ben around is going to further the rebuilding process, while potentially making things worse before they get better when he does decide to hang it up.

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    Begin the roast
    Drafting QBs is a crapshoot. Smart guys who do this for a living passed on Mahomes. Since he roasted Alabama a year ago everyone was swooning for Lawrence, but he had a mediocre night against a pedestrian LSU defense this year. Add to that even a sure thing can get hurt (eg Andrew Luck) and giving up on a season by putting your hopes and dreams on hopefully drafting one player as your Messiah is at best risky and at worst catastrophic for years to come

    Intentionally tanking a season can both be unsuccessful (the Dolphins looked like the worst team of all time in October and ended up beating the Pats to end their season) and alienate your players (one reason the Steelers got Minkah was he was adamant about wanting out of Miami).

    The Steelers have sought to be competitive every year and I see no reason to change that for 2020 even if AJRII, Colbert & Tomlin were receptive to the idea of tanking (spoiler alert - they are not)

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteeleReign View Post
    You keep Ben because you believe you can win a Superbowl with him, whether it's realistic or not.

    If you go 10-6 and get bounced, you draft as needed in the trenches in 2021. Sign a journeyman QB if you must for 2021-2, then find your QB in 2022.

    If Ben is healthy, he's back because we can win it all with him. (Best case)

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    I respect the optimism, and I believe that is the exact plan going forward, but that's also 2 years before we potentially get our next franchise QB and 3 to 4 years before we are considered contenders if all goes accordingly.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    I respect the optimism, and I believe that is the exact plan going forward, but that's also 2 years before we potentially get our next franchise QB and 3 to 4 years before we are considered contenders if all goes accordingly.
    That's not unusual for a team transitioning from a franchise quarterback. They don't grow on trees.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    Drafting QBs is a crapshoot. Smart guys who do this for a living passed on Mahomes. Since he roasted Alabama a year ago everyone was swooning for Lawrence, but he had a mediocre night against a pedestrian LSU defense this year. Add to that even a sure thing can get hurt (eg Andrew Luck) and giving up on a season by putting your hopes and dreams on hopefully drafting one player as your Messiah is at best risky and at worst catastrophic for years to come

    Intentionally tanking a season can both be unsuccessful (the Dolphins looked like the worst team of all time in October and ended up beating the Pats to end their season) and alienate your players (one reason the Steelers got Minkah was he was adamant about wanting out of Miami).

    The Steelers have sought to be competitive every year and I see no reason to change that for 2020 even if AJRII, Colbert & Tomlin were receptive to the idea of tanking (spoiler alert - they are not)
    It is a crapshoot, agreed. I disagree with the injury argument though...you don't pass on a talent like Lawrence because you're worried he will get injured...sure it can happen, but that can be said about every player in the league. I definitely would not call LSU's defense pedestrian in the slightest. Yes, I said tanking, but not deliberately. You're still trying to win games, but you don't have the roster capable of doing so. I would never expect this franchise of tanking deliberately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteeleReign View Post
    That's not unusual for a team transitioning from a franchise quarterback. They don't grow on trees.

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    My argument is "tanking" for Lawrence could cut that timeframe in half

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    It is a crapshoot, agreed. I disagree with the injury argument though...you don't pass on a talent like Lawrence because you're worried he will get injured...sure it can happen, but that can be said about every player in the league. I definitely would not call LSU's defense pedestrian in the slightest. Yes, I said tanking, but not deliberately. You're still trying to win games, but you don't have the roster capable of doing so. I would never expect this franchise of tanking deliberately.

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    My argument is "tanking" for Lawrence could cut that timeframe in half
    Setting aside the fact that the Steelers would never (and shouldn't) tank, you're taking some huge gambles with this plan.

    The Steelers have missed the playoffs the last 2 years, both with and without Ben. To assume that cutting Ben and signing a veteran, or sticking with Mason and Duck, will in effect, "tank" our season enough to draft a franchise quarterback is a huge gamble.

    That, of course, ignores the titanic-sized gamble that ANY quarterback will turn out to be a franchise player.

    If you were to make a case that Ben's elbow is a risk this year and he may only play at a 70% level, that changes the equation.

    Now it's about finding a better investment for that 33m and beginning the rebuild sooner.

    The condition of Ben's elbow is the ONLY factor that will influence his zip code next year, and will have a major trickle-down effect on the rest of the roster decisions the FO needs to make.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    You lost me as soon as you said Flacco for Ben. If his armis 100% I want no other QB...Flacco for Ben smh

    "Zeds dead baby, Zeds dead." - Butch

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasteeler View Post
    You lost me as soon as you said Flacco for Ben. If his armis 100% I want no other QB...Flacco for Ben smh
    Yeah, me too. Threw up in my mouth a little on that one.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteeleReign View Post
    Setting aside the fact that the Steelers would never (and shouldn't) tank, you're taking some huge gambles with this plan.

    The Steelers have missed the playoffs the last 2 years, both with and without Ben. To assume that cutting Ben and signing a veteran, or sticking with Mason and Duck, will in effect, "tank" our season enough to draft a franchise quarterback is a huge gamble.

    That, of course, ignores the titanic-sized gamble that ANY quarterback will turn out to be a franchise player.

    If you were to make a case that Ben's elbow is a risk this year and he may only play at a 70% level, that changes the equation.

    Now it's about finding a better investment for that 33m and beginning the rebuild sooner.

    The condition of Ben's elbow is the ONLY factor that will influence his zip code next year, and will have a major trickle-down effect on the rest of the roster decisions the FO needs to make.

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    Yes, it's undoubtedly a high risk, high reward plan, but not as catastrophic as you make it out to be. No matter what way you look at it, this team will be in rebuild mode the second Ben retires. Our Oline is aging, our RBs are soft, our TE is made of glass, and we have no true #1 WR. Say we do cut ties with Ben and a veteran backup or Rudolph leads us to a .500 record., which is better than planned. It's not the end of the world. We still have a decent draft pick to plug a hole other than QB. Then we would have to go the journey man route at QB, but we would also have quite a bit of cap space if I'm not mistaken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vasteeler View Post
    You lost me as soon as you said Flacco for Ben. If his armis 100% I want no other QB...Flacco for Ben smh
    Do you not understand tanking?

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    Yes, it's undoubtedly a high risk, high reward plan, but not as catastrophic as you make it out to be. No matter what way you look at it, this team will be in rebuild mode the second Ben retires. Our Oline is aging, our RBs are soft, our TE is made of glass, and we have no true #1 WR. Say we do cut ties with Ben and a veteran backup or Rudolph leads us to a .500 record., which is better than planned. It's not the end of the world. We still have a decent draft pick to plug a hole other than QB. Then we would have to go the journey man route at QB, but we would also have quite a bit of cap space if I'm not mistaken.

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    Do you not understand tanking?
    I get your point, but if Ben is 100%, do you not think we're a playoff contender? Especially with the quality of our defense?

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteeleReign View Post
    I get your point, but if Ben is 100%, do you not think we're a playoff contender? Especially with the quality of our defense?

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    I do. But that's the extent of it. We're playoff contenders with Ben. The Steelers are about winning super bowls and those days are over for Ben. The quality of this defense is why I don't want to waste any time in finding our next franchise QB.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    I do. But that's the extent of it. We're playoff contenders with Ben. The Steelers are about winning super bowls and those days are over for Ben. The quality of this defense is why I don't want to waste any time in finding our next franchise QB.
    If the team is good enough to make the playoffs, you don't tank. That's pure insanity. If anything, I'd trade a 2021 1st round pick to get the "missing piece" for another title.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Flacco for Ben would result in a lot of DirecTV cancellations
    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Tomlin is that good.



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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteeleReign View Post
    If the team is good enough to make the playoffs, you don't tank. That's pure insanity. If anything, I'd trade a 2021 1st round pick to get the "missing piece" for another title.

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    Trevor Lawrence only enters the NFL draft once.
    https://youtu.be/SfBs2xnh9Ek

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    Trevor Lawrence only enters the NFL draft once.
    https://youtu.be/SfBs2xnh9Ek
    Yeah, so did Ryan Leaf and Tim Couch.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    Yes, it's undoubtedly a high risk, high reward plan, but not as catastrophic as you make it out to be. No matter what way you look at it, this team will be in rebuild mode the second Ben retires. Our Oline is aging, our RBs are soft, our TE is made of glass, and we have no true #1 WR. Say we do cut ties with Ben and a veteran backup or Rudolph leads us to a .500 record., which is better than planned. It's not the end of the world. We still have a decent draft pick to plug a hole other than QB. Then we would have to go the journey man route at QB, but we would also have quite a bit of cap space if I'm not mistaken.

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    Do you not understand tanking?
    I totally understand. There is no reason to tank. With the way the defense is playing and Ben returning we have just as good of a shot as anybody in the AFC. With a healthy Ben we will be in the mix for the next few years.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteeleReign View Post
    Yeah, so did Ryan Leaf and Tim Couch.

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    I'm 100% confident he's neither of those bums. I get the risk, but I truly believe Lawrence is the truth.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    I'm 100% confident he's neither of those bums. I get the risk, but I truly believe Lawrence is the truth.
    He may be, but you just don't tank a playoff team for a CHANCE to draft a MAYBE.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasteeler View Post
    I totally understand. There is no reason to tank. With the way the defense is playing and Ben returning we have just as good of a shot as anybody in the AFC. With a healthy Ben we will be in the mix for the next few years.
    Ben is a statue. Teams have figured this out. The Oline doesn't allow him to just stay in the pocket and be successful. When he was healthy last season he had no mobility and that's what has caught up to him. He doesn't have it anymore, but if he proves me wrong I'll be sure to eat my words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteeleReign View Post
    He may be, but you just don't tank a playoff team for a CHANCE to draft a MAYBE.

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    At this point Ben is just as big of a maybe as Trevor Lawrence.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    They have too much talent on defense to finish with the worst record. Worst case scenario with this defense is 6-10

    I say you want Ben back and hope he returns to form. That is the most likely thing and the best chance at a Super Bowl

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    I'm 100% confident he's neither of those bums. I get the risk, but I truly believe Lawrence is the truth.
    Lawrence didn't look so good against LSU in the National Championship game...

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    They have too much talent on defense to finish with the worst record. Worst case scenario with this defense is 6-10

    I say you want Ben back and hope he returns to form. That is the most likely thing and the best chance at a Super Bowl
    Too many people are hoping Ben turns back the clock. I'm one of them, but when I take my Steelers goggles off I see an old QB who has lost a lot of zip. Maybe he gets some of that back, maybe he doesn't, but that's not even the biggest issue. It's his feet and his legs. What made him great in the past was his ability to improvise. Without that he doesn't have a lot to offer. I agree though, it will be very difficult to lose more than 10 games with this defense.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    Lawrence didn't look so good against LSU in the National Championship game...
    The guys lost 1 game in 2 seasons and had 2 or 3 games that he didn't look like he was the best QB in the nation. I'll take that for what it's worth.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    Too many people are hoping Ben turns back the clock. I'm one of them, but when I take my Steelers goggles off I see an old QB who has lost a lot of zip. Maybe he gets some of that back, maybe he doesn't, but that's not even the biggest issue. It's his feet and his legs. What made him great in the past was his ability to improvise. Without that he doesn't have a lot to offer. I agree though, it will be very difficult to lose more than 10 games with this defense.
    No offense but you obviously didn't watch Ben the year before he got hurt. If I'm not mistaken didn't lead league in passing yards that year.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Wow, going to be a long offseason, let’s forget the fact Ben has one of his best statistical seasons 2 years ago, or the fact we make the playoffs if our kicker didn’t fall off a cliff. Or the fact that we were an average QB from a deep playoff run this season (Ben will he far better than average as long as his elbow is healed). You better enjoy the time with Ben, when he is gone, it will be long seasons of missed playoffs unless we get lucky and find a replacement.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    the Steelers will not tank . its not in the DNA . they might suck at times but to tank intentionally .no don't see it happening .
    we must never forget tell everyone you know New England cheated and might be back at it Edit 1-21-15 there back Edit #2__12-8-19 here we go again Edit #3__ 5-25-23 it never ends

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasteeler View Post
    No offense but you obviously didn't watch Ben the year before he got hurt. If I'm not mistaken didn't lead league in passing yards that year.
    He did. He also lead the leage in attempts and ints. He's missing something from that season though. Arguably one of the best WRs to lace em up.

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by T&B fan View Post
    the Steelers will not tank . its not in the DNA . they might suck at times but to tank intentionally .no don't see it happening .
    THIS!

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    Re: Do we want Ben back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
    THIS!
    I don't mean to intentionally tank, but if you force Ben into retirement then you're essentially giving up 2 to 3 wins if not more.

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