Do we want Ben back?

[Mojouw]

Not rostering Ben saves 8.5 million with a release or a trade. Unless you start Mason Rudolph in 2020, that "savings" goes right back out the door for a tank QB.

A year from now the savings is $19 million.

If anything this is a year too early to consider.

I guess if a team, say the Bears, was willing to give you a bunch of 2020 and 2021 picks you thought you could bundle and get to the 2021 first overall, maybe? But what team that has a shot at the 2021 #1 is moving off that spot?

Even without Ben, you'd have to guy the rest of the roster to not accidentally win 5 games.

[Butch]

You say it's a fact that Ben is on a steep decline but what are you basing that on? Is it the article you read on Bleacher Report? Something else?
You also say it's a fact that we won't win a SB with him why? Ravens amongst others have won SBs with much less.
Next you want to tank a season to get a QB who is unproven in the NFL. While that QB maybe Dan Marino or Joe Montana it is more likely he is Jamarcus Russel, Mark Malone, or Philip Rivers. No matter what the QB has done in college there is no such thing as a sure bet.
Then you say we should tank a season? Really? You are going to tell that to Minkah who left the Dolphins because it looked like they were going to tank a season? Say what you will that is not going to happen, nor should it. Like I say there is no sure thing. Also with the tanking thing...we went 500 this season with 2 (basically) rookie QBs if we even have a decent QB that D will carry us a loooong ways.
Ben is a statue in the pocket??? Where did you get that from?

I don't know if Ben will be back to the way he was in his last full season after the surgery or not, but I am much more optimistic than some that he will at the very least be as good. I have not seen anything at this point that tells me different. I don't base anything, (Ben related) on what happened this year as it was only 1 full game.

[Butch]

He did. He also lead the leage in attempts and ints. He's missing something from that season though. Arguably one of the best WRs to lace em up.

ROFLMAO yes the headcase who has an entire thread based on his antics and has been going strong ever since it very early this past season. Addition by subtraction.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I've never been a fan of tanking, but now would be the time to do it.

no, there is never a time to do it.

[RunNGun]

Not rostering Ben saves 8.5 million with a release or a trade. Unless you start Mason Rudolph in 2020, that "savings" goes right back out the door for a tank QB.

A year from now the savings is $19 million.

If anything this is a year too early to consider.

I guess if a team, say the Bears, was willing to give you a bunch of 2020 and 2021 picks you thought you could bundle and get to the 2021 first overall, maybe? But what team that has a shot at the 2021 #1 is moving off that spot?

Even without Ben, you'd have to guy the rest of the roster to not accidentally win 5 games.

I know it's a long shot. They would have to let Dupree and Hargrave walk, which is possible. If that does happen I would shave at least 2 more wins.

A lot of things would have to go our way because you're right, they will not have the worst record in the league by any means. They' would have to get in the top 3 to have a chance and hope that the 2 teams ahead of them had recently drafted QBs.

[RunNGun]

You say it's a fact that Ben is on a steep decline but what are you basing that on? Is it the article you read on Bleacher Report? Something else?
You also say it's a fact that we won't win a SB with him why? Ravens amongst others have won SBs with much less.
Next you want to tank a season to get a QB who is unproven in the NFL. While that QB maybe Dan Marino or Joe Montana it is more likely he is Jamarcus Russel, Mark Malone, or Philip Rivers. No matter what the QB has done in college there is no such thing as a sure bet.
Then you say we should tank a season? Really? You are going to tell that to Minkah who left the Dolphins because it looked like they were going to tank a season? Say what you will that is not going to happen, nor should it. Like I say there is no sure thing. Also with the tanking thing...we went 500 this season with 2 (basically) rookie QBs if we even have a decent QB that D will carry us a loooong ways.
Ben is a statue in the pocket??? Where did you get that from?

I don't know if Ben will be back to the way he was in his last full season after the surgery or not, but I am much more optimistic than some that he will at the very least be as good. I have not seen anything at this point that tells me different. I don't base anything, (Ben related) on what happened this year as it was only 1 full game.

I'm basing Ben being on a steep decline by watching every Steelers game for the past 3 seasons. If you think this team is super bowl caliber then you're delusional. Your defense can only take you so far. You gotta score points to win. Our offense is a mess right now. I can assure you that Trevor Lawrence isn't Jemarcus Russell. Ben is a statue...idk how you can argue that? What weapons does Ben have to throw the ball to? What kind of running game do we have to support him? Ben can't carry the load anymore. You really think this team could take on the Chiefs?

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ROFLMAO yes the headcase who has an entire thread based on his antics and has been going strong ever since it very early this past season. Addition by subtraction.

Yep. You saw how our passing game just took off when he left. Yeah you're right. Clown or not, you can't argue that AB was one hell of a WR

[bayz101]

What are we basing his "steep decline" on, may I ask? The single game he played pedestrian in against the Patriots and tore his elbow the following game? Or the career high in yards/touchdowns throw the previous year? I'd say Ben is not declining yet, and if he is it's not nearly enough to warrant starting new at QB. The only if is his elbow and how he throws over the next 3-5 months.

[RunNGun]

What are we basing his "steep decline" on, may I ask? The single game he played pedestrian in against the Patriots and torn his elbow the following game? Or the career high in yards/touchdowns throw the previous year? I'd say Ben is not declining yet, and if he is it's not nearly enough to warrant starting new at QB. The only if is his elbow and how he throws over the next 3-5 months.

His immobility, his lack of zip and even decision making. Maybe he gets the zip back? That season he also lead the league in attempts and ints. His QB rating was around 10th in the league I believe. He also had AB. I don't like the guy, but you can't argue the talent. As well as Lev Bell and a solid running game with Conner in the first half of that season. Those 2 weapons are gone and haven't been replaced.

[Butch]

I'm basing Ben being on a steep decline by watching every Steelers game for the past 3 seasons. If you think this team is super bowl caliber then you're delusional. Your defense can only take you so far. You gotta score points to win. Our offense is a mess right now. I can assure you that Trevor Lawrence isn't Jemarcus Russell. Ben is a statue...idk how you can argue that? What weapons does Ben have to throw the ball to? What kind of running game do we have to support him? Ben can't carry the load anymore. You really think this team could take on the Chiefs?

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Yep. You saw how our passing game just took off when he left. Yeah you're right. Clown or not, you can't argue that AB was one hell of a WR

Delusional?!?!?! ok I guess you are the expert on delusions now. You still haven't shown me any facts, everything you are saying about Ben is opinion. I have watched the same games you have and I have my own opinions but we can both go on and on about that, show me some facts.

Yes D will only take you so far that we can agree on, but where was that D 2 seasons ago? Adding Devin and Minkah were HUGE part of our D's improvement but they were added this year.

Ben doesn't score points? Are you sure you are watching the games?

Who does he have to throw to? Really? Ju Ju, James and Dionte to name a few. Don't base things on what took place this year, even your savior AB's numbers took a hit when Landry was slinging him the ball. There is a BIG difference in having Ben and having Jones, Rudolph or Hodges as your QB. Not to many teams will ever sniff 500 with subpar QB play.

While you are saying you can assure me Lawrence isn't Jamarcus Russell that is still an opinion.

As long as we are healthy and Ben is not hampered by the elbow surgery I have no doubt we can beat any team including the chiefs in the playoffs or SB.

[fansince'76]

Perhaps Burrow will pull an Elway/Eli Manning, refuse to report to the Bengals when they draft him (who have historically ruined more than their fair share of promising young QB prospects) and we somehow get him for a song of a trade.

Hey, I can dream, can't i?

[pczach]

I don't mean to intentionally tank, but if you force Ben into retirement then you're essentially giving up 2 to 3 wins if not more.

That's not tanking. To get Lawrence, they would have to be a 2-win team. That isn't happening with the current roster. They would also need to let everyone walk and blow up the roster to be that bad.

Let's say all of that happens. Then they draft Lawrence and he's playing with a shitty roster and we don't know that he will be a great player. That would be a disaster.

In my opinion, you never tank. The team is a QB and a player or two from being as good or better than
anyone.

Roll with Big Ben and try to make a run.

[SteelersNorth]

I'm basing Ben being on a steep decline by watching every Steelers game for the past 3 seasons. If you think this team is super bowl caliber then you're delusional. Your defense can only take you so far. You gotta score points to win. Our offense is a mess right now. I can assure you that Trevor Lawrence isn't Jemarcus Russell. Ben is a statue...idk how you can argue that? What weapons does Ben have to throw the ball to? What kind of running game do we have to support him? Ben can't carry the load anymore. You really think this team could take on the Chiefs?

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Yep. You saw how our passing game just took off when he left. Yeah you're right. Clown or not, you can't argue that AB was one hell of a WR

Hard to argue that 'steep' decline.
You know cause in 2016 they went to the AFC title game
in 2017 even though they were 1 and done he had one of his best playoff games ever
and in 2018 had 34td passes and over 5k in yards passing
but you're bang on bud!

Maybe you should go cliff diving lol

[Six Rings]

If Ben retires ...


I believe Ben will play in 2020. His salary of $33.5 million for the season is just too much to pass on. Ben's ability to come back from past injuries has been impressive. So unless his elbow doesn't recover, expect to see him again for another year.


However, if Ben decides to retire, the Steelers find themselves with 33.5 million more in cap space, which is a huge amount of money.


Options from here include:


Option 1. Picking a top veteran free-agent quarterback for a two-year deal at say 23 million a year such as Netwon, Rivers, Brady, ect...Then using the draft to rebuild the OL and DL, and maybe singing one really good positional player in free agency at TE or RB. This would extend our super bowl window for another 1-2 years.


Option 2. Blow it up. Cut older vets, don't re-sign Hargrave and Dupree ( picking up say a 3rd and 4th round comp pick in 2021 ), and create a lot of cap space for the future. Then trade up for QB Eason ( who looks like a late 1st round pick or early to mid 2nd round pick ) Eason has first-round tools but probably needs another year of seasoning. Let him get his feet wet in 2020. This option would close the super bowl window; however, it gives the Steelers a lot of cap space, and draft picks in 2021 to make our move.


The Ravens with Lamar Jackson that defense and coaching are probably the top team in 2021 in the AFC north. Cincinnati will have Joe Burrow at quarterback, so you'd think they would be on their way up. The Browns suck, and we are in transition.

[SteeleReign]

Your scenario doesn't play, because the Steelers would only recover 8.5m of his salary.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[86WARD]

Sure. Who is gonna replace him?

[vasteeler]

Sure. Who is gonna replace him?

Um...didnt you read?...Flacco...lol

[Mojouw]

Ugggggghhhhh.

If we are going to use the salary and cap hit numbers, can we at least be bothered to use the right ones? https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsbur...isberger-3595/

Ben R counts 33.5 million on the cap in 2020 if he is rostered. He has a dead cap charge of 25 million if he is cut or traded. That means not rostering Ben R saves only 8.5 million dollars. Important to note:
"When an NFL player retires, all of the dead money on their contract counts against the current year’s salary cap. As far as the salary cap goes, player retirement is treated the same as if a player were cut or traded by the team. Any non-dead money is forfeit upon retirement and does not count against the team’s cap, but the dead money remains." -- https://www.catscratchreader.com/202...t-does-it-mean

In 2021, that math reverts back to the team's favor. Ben R is scheduled to be 31.5 million against the cap if he is on the roster. With only 12.5 million dead money if he is cut or traded. So that would be a 19 million savings if he was not on the roster in 2021.

Unless the team wants to enter 2020 with Rudolph/Lynch/Hodges at QB -- it makes zero sense to cut or trade Ben R for this season. It doesn't save any money and you would be trading him at his most likely lowest value. If a team wanted to execute a "tank" for a short rebuild it should be the 2021 season. After Ben R plays even moderately well in 2020, trade him to the annual "if we just had a QB we would be a SB contender" team for picks. Use those picks and your own picks to rebuild in the 2021 and 2022 drafts.

[Hawkman]

Ugggggghhhhh.

If we are going to use the salary and cap hit numbers, can we at least be bothered to use the right ones? https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsbur...isberger-3595/

Ben R counts 33.5 million on the cap in 2020 if he is rostered. He has a dead cap charge of 25 million if he is cut or traded. That means not rostering Ben R saves only 8.5 million dollars. Important to note:
"When an NFL player retires, all of the dead money on their contract counts against the current year’s salary cap. As far as the salary cap goes, player retirement is treated the same as if a player were cut or traded by the team. Any non-dead money is forfeit upon retirement and does not count against the team’s cap, but the dead money remains." -- https://www.catscratchreader.com/202...t-does-it-mean

In 2021, that math reverts back to the team's favor. Ben R is scheduled to be 31.5 million against the cap if he is on the roster. With only 12.5 million dead money if he is cut or traded. So that would be a 19 million savings if he was not on the roster in 2021.

Unless the team wants to enter 2020 with Rudolph/Lynch/Hodges at QB -- it makes zero sense to cut or trade Ben R for this season. It doesn't save any money and you would be trading him at his most likely lowest value. If a team wanted to execute a "tank" for a short rebuild it should be the 2021 season. After Ben R plays even moderately well in 2020, trade him to the annual "if we just had a QB we would be a SB contender" team for picks. Use those picks and your own picks to rebuild in the 2021 and 2022 drafts.

So that pretty much puts this discussion to rest for 2020........right?

[SteelersNorth]

Ugggggghhhhh.

If we are going to use the salary and cap hit numbers, can we at least be bothered to use the right ones? https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsbur...isberger-3595/

Ben R counts 33.5 million on the cap in 2020 if he is rostered. He has a dead cap charge of 25 million if he is cut or traded. That means not rostering Ben R saves only 8.5 million dollars. Important to note:
"When an NFL player retires, all of the dead money on their contract counts against the current year’s salary cap. As far as the salary cap goes, player retirement is treated the same as if a player were cut or traded by the team. Any non-dead money is forfeit upon retirement and does not count against the team’s cap, but the dead money remains." -- https://www.catscratchreader.com/202...t-does-it-mean

In 2021, that math reverts back to the team's favor. Ben R is scheduled to be 31.5 million against the cap if he is on the roster. With only 12.5 million dead money if he is cut or traded. So that would be a 19 million savings if he was not on the roster in 2021.

Unless the team wants to enter 2020 with Rudolph/Lynch/Hodges at QB -- it makes zero sense to cut or trade Ben R for this season. It doesn't save any money and you would be trading him at his most likely lowest value. If a team wanted to execute a "tank" for a short rebuild it should be the 2021 season. After Ben R plays even moderately well in 2020, trade him to the annual "if we just had a QB we would be a SB contender" team for picks. Use those picks and your own picks to rebuild in the 2021 and 2022 drafts.

I don't think you're wrong with that assessment.
I just don't see the Steelers cutting him even if he plays 'bad' this year.
He revived the franchise QB situation from mediocre to stellar so I think ARII will ride it out with BR until he says he's officially done.

It'll be interesting to see how he plays.
Even though Ben has had his fair share of injuries I've never doubted him playing how he plays and that's what makes him a TRUE football player he doesn't alter his style (Peyton/Brady looking like marionettes) or cry about an injury (see Aaron Rodgers after the Anthony Barr hit...what a whiny bitch lol)

[RunNGun]

Um...didnt you read?...Flacco...lol

You understand that I said Flacco so that we would lose more games? That is the point here.

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Ugggggghhhhh.

If we are going to use the salary and cap hit numbers, can we at least be bothered to use the right ones? https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsbur...isberger-3595/

Ben R counts 33.5 million on the cap in 2020 if he is rostered. He has a dead cap charge of 25 million if he is cut or traded. That means not rostering Ben R saves only 8.5 million dollars. Important to note:
"When an NFL player retires, all of the dead money on their contract counts against the current year’s salary cap. As far as the salary cap goes, player retirement is treated the same as if a player were cut or traded by the team. Any non-dead money is forfeit upon retirement and does not count against the team’s cap, but the dead money remains." -- https://www.catscratchreader.com/202...t-does-it-mean

In 2021, that math reverts back to the team's favor. Ben R is scheduled to be 31.5 million against the cap if he is on the roster. With only 12.5 million dead money if he is cut or traded. So that would be a 19 million savings if he was not on the roster in 2021.

Unless the team wants to enter 2020 with Rudolph/Lynch/Hodges at QB -- it makes zero sense to cut or trade Ben R for this season. It doesn't save any money and you would be trading him at his most likely lowest value. If a team wanted to execute a "tank" for a short rebuild it should be the 2021 season. After Ben R plays even moderately well in 2020, trade him to the annual "if we just had a QB we would be a SB contender" team for picks. Use those picks and your own picks to rebuild in the 2021 and 2022 drafts.

Hard to argue this. Like I said, it's a shot in the wind. It's a what if? I never thought this could be reality. I love a good debate though.

[st33lersguy]

Too many people are hoping Ben turns back the clock. I'm one of them, but when I take my Steelers goggles off I see an old QB who has lost a lot of zip. Maybe he gets some of that back, maybe he doesn't, but that's not even the biggest issue. It's his feet and his legs. What made him great in the past was his ability to improvise. Without that he doesn't have a lot to offer. I agree though, it will be very difficult to lose more than 10 games with this defense.

At this point though he offers the best chance of having great QB play in 2020 and 2021. Name me someone else that has a better chance that they can get? Phillip Rivers? Lol

[Steeler-in-west]

You understand that I said Flacco so that we would lose more games? That is the point here.

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Hard to argue this. Like I said, it's a shot in the wind. It's a what if? I never thought this could be reality. I love a good debate though.

You know with a healthy Ben and the newly dominant defense we can contend. And no one knows the status of Ben’s arm yet. At this point you hold your cards and wait till you find out more about his elbow/arm.

[RunNGun]

Hard to argue that 'steep' decline.
You know cause in 2016 they went to the AFC title game
in 2017 even though they were 1 and done he had one of his best playoff games ever
and in 2018 had 34td passes and over 5k in yards passing
but you're bang on bud!

Maybe you should go cliff diving lol

He had some of the best weapons in the leage in those years. Those weapons are all gone and haven't been replaced. Hate AB all you want, but he was a major factor in Ben's success in those years, as was Bell. Juju isn't AB and Conner isn't Bell. Giving me stats from 2016? C'mon, that will be 5 seasons ago. Ben was still in his prime.

[vasteeler]

You understand that I said Flacco so that we would lose more games? That is the point here.

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Hard to argue this. Like I said, it's a shot in the wind. It's a what if? I never thought this could be reality. I love a good debate though.

Yeah, I'm just bagging on you. I get your point I just don't agree with it. It's all good though

[tube517]

[Mojouw]

You understand that I said Flacco so that we would lose more games? That is the point here.

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Hard to argue this. Like I said, it's a shot in the wind. It's a what if? I never thought this could be reality. I love a good debate though.

I think the discussion and debate is great as well. But there has been an uptick of media "takes" about Ben needing to retire or the organization needs to move on due to finances since we have entered the off-season portion of the NFL. What I find frustrating is not that these debates and opinions are out there, but that they are constructed on somewhat false premises and shaky ground. Information is easy to come by this day and age - it took me less than 10 minutes to read up on the salary cap implications of Ben's next two years. Why is that Canty and Bleacher Report can't be bothered to do even that?

Another thing that gets my goat is the "hot take" that Ben R is done because he throw a ton of picks in 2018. Really? That was the lowest amount of league leading INTs in like 2-3 decades. And then later in the article the guy argues that the Steelers should replace Roethlisberger with a dude who just threw twice as many picks in 2019! What the actual what? It isn't that criticism of Ben R or the Steelers offends my delicate sensibilities or anything...it is just that it is so error filed and it is just too easy to correct those errors with less than a half a days work.

[AtlantaDan]

Good to see Ben is planning for his life’s work after football since he has heard the rumblings that the Steelers should move on

Steelers' Ben Roethlisberger fills in as WVU mascot

https://triblive.com/sports/first-ca...ool-nhl-goals/

(Via TribLive)

[RunNGun]

I think the discussion and debate is great as well. But there has been an uptick of media "takes" about Ben needing to retire or the organization needs to move on due to finances since we have entered the off-season portion of the NFL. What I find frustrating is not that these debates and opinions are out there, but that they are constructed on somewhat false premises and shaky ground. Information is easy to come by this day and age - it took me less than 10 minutes to read up on the salary cap implications of Ben's next two years. Why is that Canty and Bleacher Report can't be bothered to do even that?

Another thing that gets my goat is the "hot take" that Ben R is done because he throw a ton of picks in 2018. Really? That was the lowest amount of league leading INTs in like 2-3 decades. And then later in the article the guy argues that the Steelers should replace Roethlisberger with a dude who just threw twice as many picks in 2019! What the actual what? It isn't that criticism of Ben R or the Steelers offends my delicate sensibilities or anything...it is just that it is so error filed and it is just too easy to correct those errors with less than a half a days work.

I can understand the media's take on this. If I read your post right, if we we would cut ties with Ben now it would free up 8.5 mil, which isn't worth it if we could save 21 mil next season by moving on from him. However, freeing up that 8.5 now could make room to sign Dupree or Hargrave...right? Idk if I'd be on board with that, but I'm also not sold on Ben. I definitely do not see him coming back and playing like 2016 Ben and lighting the league up. He doesn't have the weapons or the Oline. Ben puts us in the best situation to win this year, but the Super Bowl window is closed. Maybe you agree with that, maybe you don't. I'll stand by my opinion that if Ben sticks around for one more year it's furthering the rebuild process by 1 or 2 more years. Regardless of when he leaves, there will be some rough years. I'm on board of starting that now while the defense is still young.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Ben will come back because he is the best option. It may be his last season or he may play a couple more. His fellow draft class of Manning and Rivers have shown that the end is near.

But at this point neither Rudolph, Hodges or Lynch are a better option. (I actually think Lynch beats out Hodges this year). 2020 will show if Ben still can do enough to help win games, but again I dont think the Steelers win a Super Bowl with Fichtner at OC, so maybe I enjoy a playoff team for another season or 2 until the team reloads at QB and Fichter is shown the door.

[SteelersNorth]

He had some of the best weapons in the leage in those years. Those weapons are all gone and haven't been replaced. Hate AB all you want, but he was a major factor in Ben's success in those years, as was Bell. Juju isn't AB and Conner isn't Bell. Giving me stats from 2016? C'mon, that will be 5 seasons ago. Ben was still in his prime.

you said he's been in decline for 3 years i gave you the last 3 years of healthy Ben which are 16/17/18...19 is omitted
Pay attention next time young grasshopper lol

Oh, just wondering if you know how well AB did in Pittsburgh sans Ben? Sure he was a factor but the main factor was Ben.
How'd Bell do with the Jets?
Exactly...

You come across like a Steelers fan that just became one within the last week...you honestly make me laugh.