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Thread: Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

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    Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

    Mock: 2. Antoine Winfield Jr, S/SCB, Minnesota 3. Isaiah Coulter, WR, Rhode Island 4. Brycen Hopkins, TE, Purdue 4. Jon Runyan Jr, OG, Michigan 6. Sewo Olonilua, RB, TCU 7. Bravvion Roy, NT, Baylor

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    Re: Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

    In before: derision.

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    Re: Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

    Here is a quote from the comments section. I had no idea about how much he moved around and the lack of a position coach in college.

    From: UK/Steeler Fan Since 1969
    Mostly on point(UK though)KU is Kansas
    Bud was an athletic *3 TE out of hs. They turned him into a standup 4-3 LB his true frosh year, started at Sam year 2. Coach Stoops took over at UK & switched to a 3-4 D Bud played the Jack for 2 season's, without a dedicated OLB coach. Zadarius Smith started at the other OLB at UK & graduated with Bud, they both had their best year this past year, year 5. Bud nor Z were lazy, just the opposite. Injuries & steep learning curve behind him, counter moves now in tow, Butler has to be given some degree of credit for technique refinement and we're seeing the fruits of the labor.
    His first college HC & staff were just awful(Joker Phillips).
    considering the above, and the fact that he dealt with injuries his first few years, I think he's doing great. I hope we can find a way to keep him and TJ.






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    Re: Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

    This can't be.

    I was told by some here that Dupree was lazy. He didn't make the effort to get better and he doesn't hustle.

    Many said he used injuries as an excuse for sucking.

    Others said he's a bum that has no talent.

    Others said he didn't show anything in four years, so he can't get any better. He will always be worthless.

    Others say he is only playing hard because it is a contract year. If you pay him, he'll never do anything again.

    Sound familiar to anybody?

    This is the tough part about evaluating players. I mean....really evaluating them....and then trying to explain things to other people that don't truly evaluate talent, don't know the history of a player, and have no idea about timeframes of development and that it is different for every player. Patience is necessary. Thinking that a player can develop and improve over time isn't blind faith or being a homer that makes excuses for him. Listening to fans here that think they know everything there ever is to know about a player after a few games, a season, or multiple seasons into their careers is one of the things that drives me crazy. Time and work are the only things that make players better. Having the patience to see it unfold can be the difficult part. I just wish more fans understood that.

    When he came out of college, he was just a raw piece of clay with all the athletic gifts that you look for, but he had zero pass rush moves and not much experience. He had size, speed, and good power, but he didn't know what to do with it at the NFL level. He needed to learn how to play the position from the ground up. He had to work on the deficiencies in his game. He increased his power and explosion. He needed to understand how to attack offensive tackles with his mind by developing pass rush moves and learning how to set up offensive linemen by using multiple techniques and moves.
    He needed to learn to use timing to optimize those moves and techniques.
    He needed to learn how to drop into coverage and play in space.

    He also had to overcome some injuries. He had shoulder injuries that are devastating to an edge rusher. If you have to play with one arm, you are at a severe disadvantage on the field.

    What you saw this year was everything I spoke about above coming together as we watched a player come of age. We saw someone's hard work pay off, and saw what is possible when he is healthy.

    I can't guarantee that Bud Dupree will always be healthy. Nobody can. What I do know is that contrary to what some have said here, he has always played hard and that he has put the work in to get better. I don't see that effort going away if he gets paid. Having two edge players that can wreak havoc on quarterbacks and offenses has been the key to this defensive turnaround. It is something that all teams are looking for in this passing league.

    The film doesn't lie. The effort he has made to work on all aspects of his game are evident if you see what he was not able do when he entered the NFL compared to what he is able to do now. Bud Dupree has become a complete football player, and a guy that can consistently make plays if he stays healthy. He plays the run well. He rushes the passer. He has developed moves to be a more effective rusher. He makes splash plays behind the line of scrimmage. He plays well in coverage and in space.

    None of these things happen if you don't do the work. He did the work. Now he and the team are benefiting from that. Some players just take that kind of time to develop. Particularly pass rushers that are raw coming out of college.

    Nobody is ever right about everything in regards to evaluating talent. Everybody misses on players or is wrong about players. His development was slow, but there were reasons for it. You could see him getting better, and how well he played when he was healthy.

    I truly hope that Bud can stay healthy and show everyone what he is capable of.

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    Re: Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

    Actually, most people said they didn’t think he had enough mentally to turn into a great edge rusher (myself included) but I am glad I was wrong. Certainly hope we can keep him.

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    Re: Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

    I'm not sure what his stats are on TFL's, but he must be near the top of the league in that stat. He came up big many times with some huge tackles for losses in the run game.
    My Avatar is worse than the Madden Curse. My Previous avatars: 1- Antonio Brown, 2- Juju / Conner, 3- Tom Brady, 4- Lamar Jackson. Their careers all went south when I added them as my avatar, so I'm trying to make something good out of the bad

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    Re: Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorhead View Post
    Actually, most people said they didn’t think he had enough mentally to turn into a great edge rusher (myself included) but I am glad I was wrong. Certainly hope we can keep him.

    He's not great yet, but he's working on it!

    He has made tremendous improvements in his game.

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    Re: Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

    Ok for those of you that like a little breakdown in the spirit of "keepin it real", here it is, but for those that don't...I apologize.

    The first 2 vids in that breakdown are plays vs scrub OT's in Clevland and Chargers. The positives are 1. good hand use of a long arm stab to get to the OT's chest and 2. effective use of a counter move, in those cases an inside spin.

    The next vid vs Jets is against Kelvin Beachum, so a good LT, but I don't like how Bud meets him shoulder to shoulder and stops moving his feet on the rush, almost like a seek technique. He didn't get Beachums hands off him, but rather was negated until Darnold moved up in the pocket and he spun off. The good, active powerful rush, with his head up to see when the QB moved and make the play.

    The next play is vs Costanzo vs the Colts. Again he takes him head up and bull rushes and doesn't get his hands off him, but it just becomes a point of Bud taking the long run around Costanzo and chasing down the QB from behind. I would say partly a coverage sack and the rest is great pursuit by a great athlete.

    The next vid is vs Andre Smith, who is really a big and slow guy that should be playing RT. Credit to Dupree as he exposes this and does a great job with his left hand of getting Smiths hands away from him so he can dip the shoulder, rip around the edge and shorten the arc. Pass rusher move against a guy he knows the weakness.

    Good progress from Dupree to getting some pass rush moves and a counter move which seems to be his spin.

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    Re: Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Ok for those of you that like a little breakdown in the spirit of "keepin it real", here it is, but for those that don't...I apologize.

    The first 2 vids in that breakdown are plays vs scrub OT's in Clevland and Chargers. The positives are 1. good hand use of a long arm stab to get to the OT's chest and 2. effective use of a counter move, in those cases an inside spin.

    The next vid vs Jets is against Kelvin Beachum, so a good LT, but I don't like how Bud meets him shoulder to shoulder and stops moving his feet on the rush, almost like a seek technique. He didn't get Beachums hands off him, but rather was negated until Darnold moved up in the pocket and he spun off. The good, active powerful rush, with his head up to see when the QB moved and make the play.

    The next play is vs Costanzo vs the Colts. Again he takes him head up and bull rushes and doesn't get his hands off him, but it just becomes a point of Bud taking the long run around Costanzo and chasing down the QB from behind. I would say partly a coverage sack and the rest is great pursuit by a great athlete.

    The next vid is vs Andre Smith, who is really a big and slow guy that should be playing RT. Credit to Dupree as he exposes this and does a great job with his left hand of getting Smiths hands away from him so he can dip the shoulder, rip around the edge and shorten the arc. Pass rusher move against a guy he knows the weakness.

    Good progress from Dupree to getting some pass rush moves and a counter move which seems to be his spin.
    All reasonable critiques and observations. Places Dupree in maybe around the second tier of pass rushers in the NFL. Maybe third, but for guys into their second or third contracts his numbers align with second tier pass rushers. Not totally dominant in their own rights, but take a front seven to another level when surrounded by other competent or better pass rushers.

    Those guys all get paid between 12-18 million per season on average. Factor in some inflation, the cost of the franchise tag, etc etc etc and Bud Dupree is a 15-17 million per season pass rusher in the limited NFL pass rush marketplace.

    We can be excited, frustrated, nervous, optimistic, hopeful, or whatever to that reality as fans. But it is a reality. Whether the Steelers pay him or someone else pays him, Bud Dupree will be playing outside pass rusher for someone next season at north of $16 million dollars.

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    Re: Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    All reasonable critiques and observations. Places Dupree in maybe around the second tier of pass rushers in the NFL. Maybe third, but for guys into their second or third contracts his numbers align with second tier pass rushers. Not totally dominant in their own rights, but take a front seven to another level when surrounded by other competent or better pass rushers.

    Those guys all get paid between 12-18 million per season on average. Factor in some inflation, the cost of the franchise tag, etc etc etc and Bud Dupree is a 15-17 million per season pass rusher in the limited NFL pass rush marketplace.

    We can be excited, frustrated, nervous, optimistic, hopeful, or whatever to that reality as fans. But it is a reality. Whether the Steelers pay him or someone else pays him, Bud Dupree will be playing outside pass rusher for someone next season at north of $16 million dollars.
    What I find interesting is what will be the market for Dupree compared to Vic Beasley? Beasley has 6 more career sacks than Dupree, but has only recorded 18 in the past 3 seasons. Beasley had a breakout year his 2nd season and has dropped off, while Dupree seems to be trending upwards. I wonder who is the more sought after pass rusher?

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    Re: Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Ok for those of you that like a little breakdown in the spirit of "keepin it real", here it is, but for those that don't...I apologize.

    The first 2 vids in that breakdown are plays vs scrub OT's in Clevland and Chargers. The positives are 1. good hand use of a long arm stab to get to the OT's chest and 2. effective use of a counter move, in those cases an inside spin.

    The next vid vs Jets is against Kelvin Beachum, so a good LT, but I don't like how Bud meets him shoulder to shoulder and stops moving his feet on the rush, almost like a seek technique. He didn't get Beachums hands off him, but rather was negated until Darnold moved up in the pocket and he spun off. The good, active powerful rush, with his head up to see when the QB moved and make the play.

    The next play is vs Costanzo vs the Colts. Again he takes him head up and bull rushes and doesn't get his hands off him, but it just becomes a point of Bud taking the long run around Costanzo and chasing down the QB from behind. I would say partly a coverage sack and the rest is great pursuit by a great athlete.

    The next vid is vs Andre Smith, who is really a big and slow guy that should be playing RT. Credit to Dupree as he exposes this and does a great job with his left hand of getting Smiths hands away from him so he can dip the shoulder, rip around the edge and shorten the arc. Pass rusher move against a guy he knows the weakness.

    Good progress from Dupree to getting some pass rush moves and a counter move which seems to be his spin.



    That's a good assessment of the videos. That's why even though my first post in this thread was really talking up Dupree, I made sure to make it clear in my second post that he is not a great player yet.

    The only caveat I have is that he's going up against the same quality of OT's that just about everyone else is going up against. There are a lot of edge players going up against the same guys and they can't post 11.5 sacks.

    I know you're not bashing him, and you are just trying to give an accurate assessment of where his game is at right now. I know he's not a great player yet, but he has really developed his game and has come a long way from where he started. The people that continually called him trash with no chance for improvement are eerily silent at the moment. You know, the one's that call us "fan boys" for seeing talent that can develop and improve instead of jumping on the pile and badmouthing the guy or saying he's lazy because he wasn't getting 15 sacks a year.

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    Re: Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    What I find interesting is what will be the market for Dupree compared to Vic Beasley? Beasley has 6 more career sacks than Dupree, but has only recorded 18 in the past 3 seasons. Beasley had a breakout year his 2nd season and has dropped off, while Dupree seems to be trending upwards. I wonder who is the more sought after pass rusher?
    Before last season, I think a case could have been made for Beasley. But after another disappearing act on his part and a "breakout" on Dupree's part --- I would wager it will be Dupree. Admittedly, I do not know a great deal about Beasley or his game (or lack thereof). Although, I suspect that a team in need of pass rush is going to look at Beasley and see a guy who has had a rocky road in the NFL but some success rushing the passer and talk themselves into their coaching staffs' ability to unlock his potential. Guys drafted in the first round and under 30 are going to get a bunch of chances. For instance, I honestly believe someone will sign Burns to a FA contract and bring him to camp.

    How does Beasley play the run? Drop into coverage? If he does all those well and still can string together 6-8 sacks per season he will get paid by someone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    That's a good assessment of the videos. That's why even though my first post in this thread was really talking up Dupree, I made sure to make it clear in my second post that he is not a great player yet.

    The only caveat I have is that he's going up against the same quality of OT's that just about everyone else is going up against. There are a lot of edge players going up against the same guys and they can't post 11.5 sacks.

    I know you're not bashing him, and you are just trying to give an accurate assessment of where his game is at right now. I know he's not a great player yet, but he has really developed his game and has come a long way from where he started. The people that continually called him trash with no chance for improvement are eerily silent at the moment. You know, the one's that call us "fan boys" for seeing talent that can develop and improve instead of jumping on the pile and badmouthing the guy or saying he's lazy because he wasn't getting 15 sacks a year.
    That is the "mystery" of the NFL and talent evaluation. Almost no one that makes it into an NFL camp lacks the basic physical tools. Some guys exceed their "measurables" and others never seem to live up to them. As well as everything in between. If the NFL ever figures out how to reliably predict that, well then I guess the draft becomes far less interesting!

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    Re: Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    That is the "mystery" of the NFL and talent evaluation. Almost no one that makes it into an NFL camp lacks the basic physical tools. Some guys exceed their "measurables" and others never seem to live up to them. As well as everything in between. If the NFL ever figures out how to reliably predict that, well then I guess the draft becomes far less interesting!


    So true.

    This is not an exact science. The more you dive into the tape and the measurables and try to rate quality of competition and systems they play in, etc..etc... the more you understand how hard it is to be right at a very high rate.

    What I always find funny is the way the people that don't really get into the draft process are the ones that believe every player drafted should be a superstar! Most football people will tell you that, depending on where you draft in the order, drafting a couple quality players per draft is a pretty reasonable goal. Yet the fans of each team expect three or four HOF players per draft or the people in charge are idiots!

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    Re: Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    That's a good assessment of the videos. That's why even though my first post in this thread was really talking up Dupree, I made sure to make it clear in my second post that he is not a great player yet.

    The only caveat I have is that he's going up against the same quality of OT's that just about everyone else is going up against. There are a lot of edge players going up against the same guys and they can't post 11.5 sacks.

    I know you're not bashing him, and you are just trying to give an accurate assessment of where his game is at right now. I know he's not a great player yet, but he has really developed his game and has come a long way from where he started. The people that continually called him trash with no chance for improvement are eerily silent at the moment. You know, the one's that call us "fan boys" for seeing talent that can develop and improve instead of jumping on the pile and badmouthing the guy or saying he's lazy because he wasn't getting 15 sacks a year.
    Yes, a guy with Dupree's size, speed, 40 inch vertical and explosiveness had the physical tools to be successful. The bizzare thing was that he would go train with pass rush gurus to hopefully develop pass rush moves, but he never seemed to improve upon them until now. Against the lesser OT's of the Browns and Chargers, he used a solid move of stabbing to the chest with his left arm and then when the OT was leaning against the pressure, he used a nice spin move. He never seemed to have that before. Then against Andre Smith, he uses that hand to swat down the OT's hands and keeps his feet moving to dip his shoulder and run the arc. Its a well executed primary pass rush move, which again he hasn't done consistently until now.

    I agree, that he always had the tools and could improve. I think the frustration is to why it took so long. ZaDaruis Smith played opposite Dupree and was drafted later, but has established himself as a pass rusher long before Dupree.

    Right now, its good to see that he has a primary move...the long arm swat, to a dip and rip. Then he has a counter move of the spin inside and also he tries to use his speed and convert it to power with a bull rush like he did on Costanzo. Bud Dupree with 3 pass rush moves, is much better than 2 seasons ago when he didn't seem to have one good one.

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    Re: Film Room: Looking At Bud Dupree’s Transformation Into A Complete Pass Rusher

    I wonder if Bud’s shoulder injury had anything to do with his lack of using any of the aforementioned pass-rush moves. Others on the team have stated that this was the first season where Bud was actually close to 100% healthy; there were times when he couldn’t raise his arm (without being shot up).

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