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Thread: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

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    PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    PFF rates these steelers in their top 100




    Love them or hate them I have not found an independent grading system of data outside of PFF, which I generally agree with, even though they don't share their secret sauce formula of how they rate players. The following Steelers made their cut in the top 101 to 50 players.


    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-101...019-nfl-season


    94. S MINKAH FITZPATRICK, PITTSBURGH STEELERS

    If we were looking only at the Minkah Fitzpatrick who played in Pittsburgh, he would likely be higher on this list, but PFF grades every play of the season, and Miami Minkah was a thing that happened, albeit just for a couple of weeks. In Pittsburgh, Fitzpatrick showed that he could be a far bigger playmaker than the Dolphins ever coaxed from him, and he made several game-changing plays for them in his new home. Inconsistency remained his biggest issue, but there is no doubting the big-time playmaking ability he has.



    86. CB STEVEN NELSON, PITTSBURGH STEELERS

    One of the more underrated players in all of football, Steven Nelson had an excellent season for the Pittsburgh Steelers after being “just another member” of a Chiefs defense that was disappointing in 2018. Nelson allowed just 51.5% of passes thrown his way this season to be caught and allowed only one touchdown across the 66 passes thrown into his coverage. Nelson's run defense was also solid, and he demonstrated that, while on a better unit, he was capable of much better play than he was being given credit for while playing in Kansas City.




    68. DI JAVON HARGRAVE, PITTSBURGH STEELERS

    An injury to Stephon Tuitt opened the door for nose tackle Javon Hargrave to prove he could be more than just a run-stuffing body on the defensive line in a contract year, and he did exactly that over the season. Hargrave played 225 snaps more than his previous career-high, and he responded by notching more total pressures (49) than his previous two seasons combined (41). He maintained his impressive work against the run but showed that he can be a legitimate force as a pass-rusher and more than just a rotational body, earning the best overall PFF grade of his career in the process (83.4).

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Hopefully we'll land a 3rd round comp in 2021 for Hargrave...
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    Hopefully we'll land a 3rd round comp in 2021 for Hargrave...

    Man, I'll hate it if they lose this guy. He was my draft crush the year he came out. He is just coming into his own.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    Hopefully we'll land a 3rd round comp in 2021 for Hargrave...


    I don't think he's going to get a big enough contract to warrant a 3rd round comp pick. Hargrave is a decent pass rusher, but remember defenses worry about Watt, Dupree, Heyward, and when he's healthy Tuitt. Being the 5th man who defenses didn't focus on had something to do wit his success. What I'm saying he I don't think he'll be as good on another team. At times he's run defense was lacking.


    Yeah, he'll be missed, but losing him is nothing major.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    There was an article lurking how when Hargrave was on the field that the pass-rush percentages rose significantly. He is a force.

    That said, as I’ve stated elsewhere, since the Steelers seemed to have switched to a 2-5 (or a 4-3???), they’ve only really played 2 D-lineman for most plays. Ergo, if Hargrave leaves, he’d be replaced by Tuitt (who was actually playing phenomenally before his injury).

    SUMMATION:
    Hargrave might be the “odd man out” anyway.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    I don't think he's going to get a big enough contract to warrant a 3rd round comp pick. Hargrave is a decent pass rusher, but remember defenses worry about Watt, Dupree, Heyward, and when he's healthy Tuitt. Being the 5th man who defenses didn't focus on had something to do wit his success. What I'm saying he I don't think he'll be as good on another team. At times he's run defense was lacking.


    Yeah, he'll be missed, but losing him is nothing major.
    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    There was an article lurking how when Hargrave was on the field that the pass-rush percentages rose significantly. He is a force.

    That said, as I’ve stated elsewhere, since the Steelers seemed to have switched to a 2-5 (or a 4-3???), they’ve only really played 2 D-lineman for most plays. Ergo, if Hargrave leaves, he’d be replaced by Tuitt (who was actually playing phenomenally before his injury).

    SUMMATION:
    Hargrave might be the “odd man out” anyway.
    You guys are likely right that in the Steelers defense, Hargrave’s loss can be dealt with by the Steelers other defensive players and their scheme.

    But make no mistake, Hargrave is going to get paid a ton of money by someone if he wants it on the open market. Someone is going to look at his tape from this season and see their own version of Fletcher Cox or Grady Jarrett.

    This tool has his market value around $14 million per year https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsbur.../market-value/

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    With the crop of IDL prospects coming out in this year's Draft the FA market may not be a lucrative for a player in Hargrave's shoes. Not saying the Steelers can afford to keep him either. The better move for the Steelers may be to draft one of the young stud IDLs in this draft too. Just saying that working out a deal to keep Hargrave may not be THAT hard to work out as in previous years. Dupree being a priority re-signing makes it more problematic IMO than the price tag. I think Buggs has shown a lot of promise and that his ceiling has yet to be reached as well. Bringing in another rookie IDL to place in the rotation over a more costly Hargrave(new contract will still be more than current one) or an aging Alualu is definitely a move that wouldn't surprise me. McCullers has improved but hasn't shown he's going to get much better than he's shown to this point either. Heyward, Tuitt, Buggs, Rookie, and one of McCullers/Alualu maybe makes more sense than chasing Hargrave this offseason.

    Of course MojoUW has shown Hargrave does indeed have a big payday in store this FA season. IF that is the case it is my opinion there is simply no need to pay that cost at this time. Not when there are some genuine IDL studs in this year's draft.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    With the crop of IDL prospects coming out in this year's Draft the FA market may not be a lucrative for a player in Hargrave's shoes. Not saying the Steelers can afford to keep him either. The better move for the Steelers may be to draft one of the young stud IDLs in this draft too. Just saying that working out a deal to keep Hargrave may not be THAT hard to work out as in previous years. Dupree being a priority re-signing makes it more problematic IMO than the price tag. I think Buggs has shown a lot of promise and that his ceiling has yet to be reached as well. Bringing in another rookie IDL to place in the rotation over a more costly Hargrave(new contract will still be more than current one) or an aging Alualu is definitely a move that wouldn't surprise me. McCullers has improved but hasn't shown he's going to get much better than he's shown to this point either. Heyward, Tuitt, Buggs, Rookie, and one of McCullers/Alualu maybe makes more sense than chasing Hargrave this offseason.

    Of course MojoUW has shown Hargrave does indeed have a big payday in store this FA season. IF that is the case it is my opinion there is simply no need to pay that cost at this time. Not when there are some genuine IDL studs in this year's draft.
    They could just sign one of the "meh" IDL from Hargrave's "studly" draft class instead! Remember how Butler, Billings, etc were all going to dominate and teams were fools to let those guys fall in the draft? Good times!

    I wish there was a way to retain Hargrave -- but the math says there just isn't. The team will need to clear $30 million in cap space between now and the start of the 2020 regular season. That is just to sign a draft class, franchise Dupree, sign key restricted tender FA's, and have the several million 2020 in season contingency they prefer to have. That is all doable, but finding another dozen or so million for Hargrave just gets a bit too dicey - like where you have to gut roster depth and start thinking about cutting an OT or LB or two.

    I think Hargrave will resurface in a 4-3 front and start making Pro Bowls.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    They could just sign one of the "meh" IDL from Hargrave's "studly" draft class instead! Remember how Butler, Billings, etc were all going to dominate and teams were fools to let those guys fall in the draft? Good times!

    I wish there was a way to retain Hargrave -- but the math says there just isn't. The team will need to clear $30 million in cap space between now and the start of the 2020 regular season. That is just to sign a draft class, franchise Dupree, sign key restricted tender FA's, and have the several million 2020 in season contingency they prefer to have. That is all doable, but finding another dozen or so million for Hargrave just gets a bit too dicey - like where you have to gut roster depth and start thinking about cutting an OT or LB or two.

    I think Hargrave will resurface in a 4-3 front and start making Pro Bowls.


    I think Hargrave would be a stud DT in a 4-3. Interior defensive linemen who can rush the passer and penetrate for tackles for loss and splash plays are premium players. He has also shown that he can play NT and DE at a high level in a 3-4. He has versatility and production at all positions.

    The dude is going to get paid.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    There was an article lurking how when Hargrave was on the field that the pass-rush percentages rose significantly. He is a force.

    That said, as I’ve stated elsewhere, since the Steelers seemed to have switched to a 2-5 (or a 4-3???), they’ve only really played 2 D-lineman for most plays. Ergo, if Hargrave leaves, he’d be replaced by Tuitt (who was actually playing phenomenally before his injury).

    SUMMATION:
    Hargrave might be the “odd man out” anyway.

    Sometimes the Steelers play just 2 Defensive lineman in the goal line defense. This goes against everything I know about football. Can anyone here explain why they do it? They get blown off the ball in this formation and give up too many ground scores. 5 OL players + a TE is going to get 2-3 yards vs 2 DL players and bunch of linebackers and DB's

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    I think Hargrave would be a stud DT in a 4-3. Interior defensive linemen who can rush the passer and penetrate for tackles for loss and splash plays are premium players. He has also shown that he can play NT and DE at a high level in a 3-4. He has versatility and production at all positions.

    The dude is going to get paid.
    Agreed. No one in the national media has mentioned it yet, but I think it's entirely possible Hargrave is one of this big $$$ 12:01 FA signings.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    Sometimes the Steelers play just 2 Defensive lineman in the goal line defense. This goes against everything I know about football. Can anyone here explain why they do it? They get blown off the ball in this formation and give up too many ground scores. 5 OL players + a TE is going to get 2-3 yards vs 2 DL players and bunch of linebackers and DB's
    After Tuitt's imjury, Steelers were darn close to a base 2-4-5. For better or worse, they believe they can defend the run and the pass best from that alignment.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    Sometimes the Steelers play just 2 Defensive lineman in the goal line defense. This goes against everything I know about football. Can anyone here explain why they do it? They get blown off the ball in this formation and give up too many ground scores. 5 OL players + a TE is going to get 2-3 yards vs 2 DL players and bunch of linebackers and DB's


    They are putting more speed on the field. They can have everybody at the LOS, and the offense can struggle to know who is coming and who isn't. If they send more attackers than blockers, there is the potential for a hit behind the line or a fumble. They are betting on speed and penetration to hopefully get them in a better down and distance situation or to create a mistake or turnover. They are betting on speed and deception to stop the run or force the QB to make a quick decision, plus elite play at the LOS by the two DL and edge players to defeat blocks and disrupt the offense. When they are in goal line situations, secondary people are able to come downhill faster to make tackles if they diagnose the run quickly because they have less ground to cover as the field gets compressed.

    It's a chess match out there. If the offense figures out where they are bringing pressure and adjusts the blocking scheme, they likely have a successful play or score.

    If the defense diagnoses the play, and use their speed to penetrate and make a stop for a loss or create pressure or a sack, they likely win that battle.

    It's not going to work all the time, but it is the plan of attack they decided on because they believe it gives them the best chance to make something happen down there.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    After Tuitt's imjury, Steelers were darn close to a base 2-4-5. For better or worse, they believe they can defend the run and the pass best from that alignment.
    They played the same formation in 2018 with a healthy Tuitt. Including the goaline and paid for it. This 2-4-5 is ill equipped to stop the run. A 2 TE set would kill it.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    You guys are likely right that in the Steelers defense, Hargrave’s loss can be dealt with by the Steelers other defensive players and their scheme.

    But make no mistake, Hargrave is going to get paid a ton of money by someone if he wants it on the open market. Someone is going to look at his tape from this season and see their own version of Fletcher Cox or Grady Jarrett.

    This tool has his market value around $14 million per year https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsbur.../market-value/
    Hargrave is indeed about to get paid. I’m not sure I’d spend $15 million to keep a guy, when we already have Tuitt on the roster (and we’ve used only two D-linemen on most formations).

    I’d use that money to extend Watt & Dupree.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Hargrave is indeed about to get paid. I’m not sure I’d spend $15 million to keep a guy, when we already have Tuitt on the roster (and we’ve used only two D-linemen on most formations).

    I’d use that money to extend Watt & Dupree.
    In addition to Steelers listed at top of thread, Watt ranked #6 in PFF top 1 - 101 players for 2019. Heyward also included at #10

    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-101...019-nfl-season

    Noteworthy Dupree is not included after his big 2019 season. PFF says beware of paying Dupree (at end of linked article on each team's cap space)

    The biggest thing Pittsburgh must not do this free agency is pay edge defender Bud Dupree. Don’t get us wrong — he made several impact plays in 2019 with 13 sacks and four forced fumbles. But he also generated pressure at a very concerning rate. Sacks are unstable year-to-year while pressure rate is the opposite. Among 102 edge defenders to rush the passer at least 200 times in 2019, Dupree was 65th in pressure rate. That’s not someone you want to pay $14 million a year for

    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2020-fr...-cuts-32-teams

    Steelers have no good alternative to Dupree for 2020. But given what Watt is going to cost, tying up big long term $$$ in both Watt and Dupree is a risk IMO Steelers will not take. Franchise Dupree.




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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    They played the same formation in 2018 with a healthy Tuitt. Including the goaline and paid for it. This 2-4-5 is ill equipped to stop the run. A 2 TE set would kill it.
    You mean like the way the Ravens did in the last game of the season by running for 223 Yards with Bob Griffin at QB and Gus Edwards at RB?? I would tend to agree with you.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    In addition to Steelers listed at top of thread, Watt ranked #6 in PFF top 1 - 101 players for 2019. Heyward also included at #10

    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-101...019-nfl-season

    Noteworthy Dupree is not included after his big 2019 season. PFF says beware of paying Dupree (at end of linked article on each team's cap space)

    The biggest thing Pittsburgh must not do this free agency is pay edge defender Bud Dupree. Don’t get us wrong — he made several impact plays in 2019 with 13 sacks and four forced fumbles. But he also generated pressure at a very concerning rate. Sacks are unstable year-to-year while pressure rate is the opposite. Among 102 edge defenders to rush the passer at least 200 times in 2019, Dupree was 65th in pressure rate. That’s not someone you want to pay $14 million a year for

    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2020-fr...-cuts-32-teams

    Steelers have no good alternative to Dupree for 2020. But given what Watt is going to cost, tying up big long term $$$ in both Watt and Dupree is a risk IMO Steelers will not take. Franchise Dupree.



    It is a fascinating scenario for roster priorities and "valuation". Dupree is going to cost $14 million plus to sign. Hayward is going to cost $14 million plus to sign. Sexy FA TE is going to cost around $10 million to sign. Unless I have totally missed my guess, the Steelers can and will only be able to afford one of those things in 2020.

    I totally get that Dupree's underlying rate stats might not be where you would like them, but here is what I do not understand about these arguments -- that almost certainly doesn't matter. I can not find pressure rate anywhere that is free. But I can find this list of stats and market values for FA pass rushers: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-age...de-linebacker/

    So play the scenario out. Pass on Dupree and let him be someone elses $15 million dollar issue. Who do you pivot to? Judon? He costs the same. Golden? Does 3-4 million really make a difference? After those names, the list gets pretty sparse pretty darn quickly. So then you are looking at Alphabet Soup Toledo or Tupac the Linebacker. Both of those guys next significant NFL play will be their first.

    If OLBs with 8+ sacks cost $13+ million, what is PFF's argument? Don't sign guys with poor rate stats? Okay. Who do you sign? Oh. Wait. Those guys don't hit the open market. So...who do they propose plays OLB in 2020? 2021?

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    Sometimes the Steelers play just 2 Defensive lineman in the goal line defense. This goes against everything I know about football. Can anyone here explain why they do it? They get blown off the ball in this formation and give up too many ground scores. 5 OL players + a TE is going to get 2-3 yards vs 2 DL players and bunch of linebackers and DB's
    ??? This has me confused as we only gave up 7 TDs on the ground in the 2019 season, which is tied for first place in the NFL. Last year (2018 season) was a bit different as we gave up 13, which is tied for 15th place. However, just one less and we're tied for 10th, and two less and we're tied for 6th, which all in all, isn't that big of a margin. One game with an injured lineman or LB can account for that difference.


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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    If OLBs with 8+ sacks cost $13+ million, what is PFF's argument? Don't sign guys with poor rate stats? Okay. Who do you sign? Oh. Wait. Those guys don't hit the open market. So...who do they propose plays OLB in 2020? 2021?
    It is another data point in support of the opinion of some of us, based simply on the eye test, that Dupree’s 2019 season was the outlier and his previous seasons were more likely to be what you get going forward.

    If Dupree had double digit sacks in previous seasons with below average pressure rates then a better argument could be made to assume the double digit sacks will continue - of course that argument cannot be made.

    Since there is no alternative for 2020 they pay the franchise tag rate. What to do with Heyward is a quandary - the Patriot Way, which had some minimal success over the past two decades, was for defensive players to be cut loose without another big contract once they are on the wrong side of 30. Since contracts are not supposed to be rewards for past performance that is the cold blooded approach to take with Heyward.

    Definite odd man odd for getting a new contract this year is JuJu.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    It is another data point in support of the opinion of some of us, based simply on the eye test, that Dupree’s 2019 season was the outlier and his previous seasons were more likely to be what you get going forward.

    If Dupree had double digit sacks in previous seasons with below average pressure rates then a better argument could be made to assume the double digit sacks will continue - of course that argument cannot be made.

    Since there is no alternative for 2020 they pay the franchise tag rate. What to do with Heyward is a quandary - the Patriot Way, which had some minimal success over the past two decades, was for defensive players to be cut loose without another big contract once they are on the wrong side of 30. Since contracts are not supposed to be rewards for past performance that is the cold blooded approach to take with Heyward.

    Definite odd man odd for getting a new contract this year is JuJu.
    I would try and get Dupree on a 3-4 year deal. Lower his 2020 cap hit and make sure after year 2 he has a dead money situation in the Steelers favor. So at worst you just pay for a sub-par 2021, then cut in 2022 since you were paying for 2020 anyways. Likely frees up like $6 million or something for 2020.

    No way I do anything with Juju's contract. Still a fan and a believer, but he disappeared hard this season. Not paying him. ONLY thing I would consider is a premature extension that looks him up long term for bargain rates. But that is almost certain to create bad contract issues down the road. So why bother?

    I got slammed for it early this year, but your older player scenario is why I would have pondered trading Heyward. He totally surprised me with his dominance this past season and he should be applauded for both his on the field and off the field contributions to the team. But a totally cold and merciless cap calculation would have been to trade Heyward for high draft picks and take his 3rd contract cap money and give it to Hargrave. Not saying it would have been or is the right move, but there is a clinical logic to it that some teams have used in the past.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    They could just sign one of the "meh" IDL from Hargrave's "studly" draft class instead! Remember how Butler, Billings, etc were all going to dominate and teams were fools to let those guys fall in the draft? Good times!

    I wish there was a way to retain Hargrave -- but the math says there just isn't. The team will need to clear $30 million in cap space between now and the start of the 2020 regular season. That is just to sign a draft class, franchise Dupree, sign key restricted tender FA's, and have the several million 2020 in season contingency they prefer to have. That is all doable, but finding another dozen or so million for Hargrave just gets a bit too dicey - like where you have to gut roster depth and start thinking about cutting an OT or LB or two.

    I think Hargrave will resurface in a 4-3 front and start making Pro Bowls.
    Well that is a valid point. However, we have to talk about paying out money we simply do not have at this point or talk about how some prospect or 2 can move in and make up the difference. Unless I want to be doom and gloom about a bad cap situation and starters needing new contracts those seem to be my choices. Of the 2, I enjoy talking up prospects and trying to find the ones that fit the Steelers best. I do remember being a fan of Billings but that was also a time when the true NT was still considered a position the Steelers fielded.

    I don't find many edge rushers that I just love in this draft but there are some DL that I see as capable of quality snaps. I am also excited about seeing Buggs mature another season and maybe he is the guy to move into the Hargrave void. Maybe??? Using the past as a guide Heyward and Tuitt are only coming off the field for breathers anyway it seems so Buggs and Alualu may be all the required depth for the DL. We can also assume McCullers will find a roster spot unless one of these DL prospects does actually get drafted.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    It is a fascinating scenario for roster priorities and "valuation". Dupree is going to cost $14 million plus to sign. Hayward is going to cost $14 million plus to sign. Sexy FA TE is going to cost around $10 million to sign. Unless I have totally missed my guess, the Steelers can and will only be able to afford one of those things in 2020.

    I totally get that Dupree's underlying rate stats might not be where you would like them, but here is what I do not understand about these arguments -- that almost certainly doesn't matter. I can not find pressure rate anywhere that is free. But I can find this list of stats and market values for FA pass rushers: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-age...de-linebacker/

    So play the scenario out. Pass on Dupree and let him be someone elses $15 million dollar issue. Who do you pivot to? Judon? He costs the same. Golden? Does 3-4 million really make a difference? After those names, the list gets pretty sparse pretty darn quickly. So then you are looking at Alphabet Soup Toledo or Tupac the Linebacker. Both of those guys next significant NFL play will be their first.

    If OLBs with 8+ sacks cost $13+ million, what is PFF's argument? Don't sign guys with poor rate stats? Okay. Who do you sign? Oh. Wait. Those guys don't hit the open market. So...who do they propose plays OLB in 2020? 2021?
    Hunter Henry is probably the guy you want. He’s probably going to require $8M to $9M. Is there an OLB that can get you similar production? Could you get a guy like Jamie Collins for $8M to $9M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    The Dupree situation is tricky. He had his best season by far and given the talent around him should be able good to very good seasons beyond 2020. Cut Chickillo, Foster, Berry and Barron, and keep Dupree.

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Letting Hargrave go would be stupid beyond belief. He is a young DE who looks to be more than capable; we have another DE who will age out soon, and the third one coming off a major, sometimes "he was never the same again" type of injury that can also end careers early. The only thing limiting Hargrave from "breaking out" earlier was his limited playing time. THAT is a position we need to be really concerned about really soon, like in a year or two, and the answer is already on our roster. How dumb would it be to start that all over from scratch?

    Hargrave or Dupree, is that really the choice? People have to think about that one for more than a half-second?

    Like, yeah, I know, OLBs are so incredible that you can't even find mediocre ones for $20 million or something, and you can't draft them either, so we're perpetually stuck with Dupree because there will never be any better options ever, or even anyone who can adequately fill his heroic shoes, so we might as well never even try, and just suck it up and offer him $500 million to play OLB forever. Just like no one would ever be able to replace Jeff Reed because we had some shitty players before him, no one will ever be able to do anything similar to what Dupree has done, never ever EVER.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Hunter Henry is probably the guy you want. He’s probably going to require $8M to $9M. Is there an OLB that can get you similar production? Could you get a guy like Jamie Collins for $8M to $9M?
    Agreed. Henry would be the target for sure. I have no idea what the next tier down looks like or what it would cost. I mean you can certainly get someone to play for 6-9 million a year. But it might just look like whatever the OLB version of Barron would be. Not awful. But not great either...

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    PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Agreed. Henry would be the target for sure. I have no idea what the next tier down looks like or what it would cost. I mean you can certainly get someone to play for 6-9 million a year. But it might just look like whatever the OLB version of Barron would be. Not awful. But not great either...
    So the question would be: Improve the offense and downgrade the Bud Dupree pass rush with a Mark Barron type OLB or keep the defense 2019 solid and downgrade the TE position even further than it is?

    Where ever Dupree goes he’s not going to be as good as he was this past season IMO. He seems like the typical higher play/higher pay/lower play kind of guy. Will it be drastically different? Probably not, but he, for whatever reason, seems to fit that profile to me. He’s definitely NOT worth the $16.6M he’s projected to get by some of the websites. It’s just too much...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    ??? This has me confused as we only gave up 7 TDs on the ground in the 2019 season, which is tied for first place in the NFL. Last year (2018 season) was a bit different as we gave up 13, which is tied for 15th place. However, just one less and we're tied for 10th, and two less and we're tied for 6th, which all in all, isn't that big of a margin. One game with an injured lineman or LB can account for that difference.
    Tied for first. Not first. TIED!!!

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    You mean like the way the Ravens did in the last game of the season by running for 223 Yards with Bob Griffin at QB and Gus Edwards at RB?? I would tend to agree with you.
    That game was odd. It was a one-FG game... until three plays in a row turned a 3-point Raven lead into a 17-point Raven lead. Plus, by the end of the third quarter, it was evident that the Titans were going to win their game, which eliminated the Steelers from the playoffs. Thus, in the fourth quarter, the Steelers defense was sort of just going through the motions.

    And, those 223 yards skewed the stats.

    Up until that game, the Steelers defense was keeping pace with the vaunted Niners defense. Those 223 yards by the Ravens pushed our average down to 109 ypg (right below the Niners at 106 ypg).

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    Re: PFF rates these steelers in their top 100-51

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    That game was odd. It was a one-FG game... until three plays in a row turned a 3-point Raven lead into a 17-point Raven lead. Plus, by the end of the third quarter, it was evident that the Titans were going to win their game, which eliminated the Steelers from the playoffs. Thus, in the fourth quarter, the Steelers defense was sort of just going through the motions.

    And, those 223 yards skewed the stats.

    Up until that game, the Steelers defense was keeping pace with the vaunted Niners defense. Those 223 yards by the Ravens pushed our average down to 109 ypg (right below the Niners at 106 ypg).

    It's a schematic thing. An offense like the Ravens run is designed to first and foremost run the ball. When the quarterback is a runner in a designed running play, the offense has an extra blocker. That takes away the numbers advantage the defense usually operates with.

    When you combine rushing yards on designed running plays with rushing yards on pass plays with an athletic QB, the rushing yards are usually much higher. That's just the way it works.

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