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Thread: New Kid In Town

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array title="tom444 is a name known to all"> tom444's Avatar

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    Re: New Kid In Town

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    What is the percentage of electronics assemblers that are women? Then do the same for engineers and technicians. Seems out of whack, but it's not. While men and women are hired to do assembly work in roughly equal numbers, more women tend to survive the training and weeding out process because they're better at the job than men in general. Women, OTOH, rarely get into STEM. It's not that they're excluded (colleges and companies are bending over backwards to encourage women to do it), they're just plain not interested.
    It's frustrating because we're suffering an engineer shortage, but what are ya gonna do? You can't put a gun to their heads and *force* them into STEM.
    Are they better swimmers too?

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    Re: New Kid In Town

    It’s interesting that 3 of the new hires are from the Philadelphia area. Stefanski, Judge and Rhule.


  3. #33
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    Re: New Kid In Town

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    What is the percentage of electronics assemblers that are women? Then do the same for engineers and technicians. Seems out of whack, but it's not. While men and women are hired to do assembly work in roughly equal numbers, more women tend to survive the training and weeding out process because they're better at the job than men in general. Women, OTOH, rarely get into STEM. It's not that they're excluded (colleges and companies are bending over backwards to encourage women to do it), they're just plain not interested.
    It's frustrating because we're suffering an engineer shortage, but what are ya gonna do? You can't put a gun to their heads and *force* them into STEM.
    I mean I could point to the mountain of evidence about the biases, stereotypes, and flat out gender discrimination that has created and perpetuated the lack of women in STEM fields, but I suspect that you are already aware of all those datasets and have chosen to reject them. Therefore, nothing I say or link to will change your mind on the issue.

    I have no idea if I am right on why there are so few minority coaches at the professional level. I only offered my opinion based on the evidence at hand. I also am not in favor of forcing anyone to do anything. The comments from former players that they view the coaching hiring process as exclusionary and biased leads me to believe that many players simply reject the notion of going into coaching after their playing days are over because they see the system as rigged against them. Again, I have no idea if it is a rigged game -- but it looks like it could be from an outside perspective. To be clear, I suspect it isn't a situation where there is a great deal of explicit racism and discrimination (owners flat out refusing to hire minority coaches) but one of implicit bias based on expectations (this candidate looks, talks, acts, and otherwise meets my assumptions of what a "great" football coach is).

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: New Kid In Town

    Coincidentally, this article was posted today: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2020/1...coaching-hires

    "Coaches work until they can’t anymore, when the weight is too heavy to bear, when they tire of being passed over for subpar talent. For white talent. For ideas about who coaches look like."

    "...it is imperative to work on improving ‘the perception of competence’ of sport business professionals of color..."

  5. #35
    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: New Kid In Town

    *snort* Yeah... "datasets". What a wonderful way to shroud rhetoric with a paper-thin veil of credibility
    I must remember that one.
    You should explore outside the confines of your little dogmatic 'woke' campus and explore the real world every once in a while. Talk to real people with real life experience in these areas your "datasets" supposedly apply to. You want to talk the electronics industry for real, hit me up on PM. I'll even introduce you to a real life female engineer.
    Those of us out here living this life know a lot more about it than you ever will.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  6. #36
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    Re: New Kid In Town

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    *snort* Yeah... "datasets". What a wonderful way to shroud rhetoric with a paper-thin veil of credibility
    I must remember that one.
    You should explore outside the confines of your little dogmatic 'woke' campus and explore the real world every once in a while. Talk to real people with real life experience in these areas your "datasets" supposedly apply to. You want to talk the electronics industry for real, hit me up on PM. I'll even introduce you to a real life female engineer.
    Those of us out here living this life know a lot more about it than you ever will.
    You continue to make false assumptions about my lifesryle, career, and point of view. Since you know next to nothing about me, that's a bit confusing.

    I could talk about how 80% of my students work full time. 10% or so are veterans. 30% or so are parents. I'll be sure to let them know how separated from real life you have determined them to be.

    I could talk about in most years I work 3-6 jobs ranging from manual labor to temp work to teaching to barely make ends meet.

    I could line up the women in STEM that I know who have experienced harassment and discrimination in the academic, private, and public sector from here to doomsday.

    I suspect none of that would alter your opinions one iota. For some reason, any claims to the existence of discrimination, bias, or prejudiced seems to threaten you at some level.

    Just so I know, because I like to learn things whenever I can, when did gender based discrimination in STEM end?

  7. #37
    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: New Kid In Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    You continue to make false assumptions about my lifesryle, career, and point of view. Since you know next to nothing about me, that's a bit confusing.
    It's not confusing at all to people who actually use techno-babble terms like "datasets" for a living.
    I could line up the women in STEM that I know who have experienced harassment and discrimination in the academic, private, and public sector from here to doomsday.
    Betcha can't. You don't know any of them outside of the academic world. That isn't real life. I know them in the real world, and the ones I know would laugh in your face.
    Just so I know, because I like to learn things whenever I can, when did gender based discrimination in STEM end?
    1961. That's the year when my favorite female STEM nerd hero got the job of singlehandedly inventing an entirely new discipline of engineering. That is, of course, after she earned her spurs by being the person who made SAGE behave. Margaret Hamilton. I'm sure you've heard of her. Since then, there has been *zero* institutional bias against female engineers. There isn't some mythical smoke filled room with old white dudes dedicated to oppressing females in STEM, there's just a lack of females pursuing this career path. The women who do this work are capable, respected, and appreciated... but they are very few and far between.
    All of that "muh racism" and "muh patriarchy" crap you folks out there on the campus tell yourselves to justify your preconceived notions... it's horseshit. But what do the rest of us know? We're just the people out here with actual life experience.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  8. #38
    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: New Kid In Town

    And I'll tell ya something else...
    When I got hired into my workplace, nobody gave a crap about my race. They had a PR problem due to a huge layoff and labor relations and thus needed qualified techs from wherever they could find them. They searched all over the country for anyone who could pass their test (the most difficult in the industry), and they found me in Pittsburgh. Zero consideration was given to the fact that I happen to be some underprivileged inner- city black dude. I'm good at electronics, and for my entire career nobody around here has given a crap about anything beyond that. All that "racism" and "sexism" garbage... out here in the real world, nobody cares. You're either good or you suck.
    I'm good. The other black techs and engineers are good. The handful of female techs and engineers I know are good. *Nobody* around here has ever cared about anything beyond that, including us. The only problem is there aren't nearly enough of us.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: New Kid In Town

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    And I'll tell ya something else...
    When I got hired into my workplace, nobody gave a crap about my race. They had a PR problem due to a huge layoff and labor relations and thus needed qualified techs from wherever they could find them. They searched all over the country for anyone who could pass their test (the most difficult in the industry), and they found me in Pittsburgh. Zero consideration was given to the fact that I happen to be some underprivileged inner- city black dude. I'm good at electronics, and for my entire career nobody around here has given a crap about anything beyond that. All that "racism" and "sexism" garbage... out here in the real world, nobody cares. You're either good or you suck.
    I'm good. The other black techs and engineers are good. The handful of female techs and engineers I know are good. *Nobody* around here has ever cared about anything beyond that, including us. The only problem is there aren't nearly enough of us.
    That's awesome and I think it's great that you have been rewarded for your skills and capabilities. I'm sure you've earned everything through your hard work and dedication. Your posts over the years have indicated that you are highly successful in your chosen field.

    As a middle class white dude, I got no idea but I would guess you've experienced things or moments in your personal and/or professional life where you've been treated differently because your black. If not, that's awesome and I'm glad you've not had to deal with that. My friends of color and my female friends have not universally reported the same experience. They've indicated that their appearance has presented roadblocks in their lives.

    Again, I don't know. There's vanishingly small implicit or explicit bias against people who look, talk, and come from my background. However, folks different than me have numerous stories where there are barriers and gatekeeping for people who look, talk, or come from their backgrounds.

    It's wonderful that you've had such a positive experience. But, and again, just me-Im not going to deny that there exist individuals who have had an opposite experience.

    I don't think there's some cabal of people in a back room somewhere picking winners and losers. Certainly, ability and talent are the ultimate tokens of admission. But I do believe there are low level long term biases that can create and perpetuate exclusionary practices in a variety of industries.

    But, at the end of the day - WTF do I know? I'm just an idiot with a keyboard and an internet connection.

  10. #40
    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: New Kid In Town

    Hell, I've experienced racism in my day, just as all of the female eggheads I've known have experienced sexism. It's just that those sort of things never impeded our careers. The entire narrative of "oppressed minority is under- represented in certain fields therefore they must be victims of discrimination" simply doesn't hold true out here. There aren't a lot of poor inner city black guys or women in STEM. It's not that they're not given opportunities or are turned away, it's simply that they're not interested. They'd rather do something else.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array title="tom444 is a name known to all"> tom444's Avatar

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    Re: New Kid In Town

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    There aren't a lot of poor inner city black guys or women in STEM.
    Do you have any black guys in Iowa?

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