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Thread: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

  1. #181
    ® Array title="Steeldude "> Steeldude's Avatar

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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    This isn't difficult.

    Cowher had his loaded roster, and when the starting QB of his choice went down to injury...he had Big Ben on a cheap rookie contract...so he won with Ben.

    Now that Big Ben is a highly paid player, the rest of the roster isn't as strong.

    Cowher already had Ben on the roster, but wouldn't use him until he had to. Cowher was very fortunate that Mr. Rooney forced him to take Roethlisberger in the draft, or Cowher probably wins zero super bowls.

    Stop romanticizing Cowher's late success. He won in spite of his own decisions. He only won because he was forced to do what he didn't want to do.

    100% factual. No cheerleading required.

    I love Cowher and thought he was a great coach, but he got very lucky late in his career.
    So you're saying Tomlin can't build a team nor keep it successful.
    Hater = Realist

  2. #182
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    So you're saying Tomlin can't build a team nor keep it successful.


    I said no such thing.

    The entire roster needed to be rebuilt. There's a huge difference.

    The organization held onto cowher's players a little too long trying to squeeze out another Super Bowl. Normally, they would have kept infusing young talent into the roster and they would have been releasing veteran players that weren't playing at the level of the contracts they were playing under. Tomlin and the organization had to systematically dismantle nearly the entire roster and rebuild.

  3. #183
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    I said no such thing.

    The entire roster needed to be rebuilt. There's a huge difference.

    The organization held onto cowher's players a little too long trying to squeeze out another Super Bowl. Normally, they would have kept infusing young talent into the roster and they would have been releasing veteran players that weren't playing at the level of the contracts they were playing under. Tomlin and the organization had to systematically dismantle nearly the entire roster and rebuild.
    Rebuild the entire roster? Anyone else buying that BS? We are set at several spots, we only need Ben back, a few draft picks to plug holes and of course better coaching.

  4. #184
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    Rebuild the entire roster? Anyone else buying that BS? We are set at several spots, we only need Ben back, a few draft picks to plug holes and of course better coaching.
    Can you read verb tenses?? NEEDED

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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    T
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
    You off the rails man!

    - - - Updated - - -

    CAN SOMEONE PLEASE PUT THE POLICE TAPE ONTO THIS THREAD �� NOW!!!!
    Bump

    - - - Updated - - -

    ......and get Shoes a TE

    - - - Updated - - -

    That’s all I want for 2020

  6. #186
    Senior Member Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute"> pczach's Avatar

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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    Rebuild the entire roster? Anyone else buying that BS? We are set at several spots, we only need Ben back, a few draft picks to plug holes and of course better coaching.

    Context is everything. I was clearly talking about the timeframe after the team went to the last Super Bowl in 2010. If you actually read what I wrote and understood the answer I gave to the post I quoted and replied to, you wouldn't be posting what really is bullshit here.....that would be your post.

    You are willing to say anything to prove your false narrative again.

    Nice try, but once again you step on your dick because you are either making shit up or are too stupid to understand the subject matter you commented on.


  7. #187
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    Context is everything. I was clearly talking about the timeframe after the team went to the last Super Bowl in 2010. If you actually read what I wrote and understood the answer I gave to the post I quoted and replied to, you wouldn't be posting what really is bullshit here.....that would be your post.

    You are willing to say anything to prove your false narrative again.

    Nice try, but once again you step on your dick because you are either making shit up or are too stupid to understand the subject matter you commented on.


    This thread is over. You can not change facts that Tomlin's teams have under achieved where it counts. 3-6 in the last nine playoff games and a losing to sub .500 teams too often. Fact. Not a narrative. The narrative is thinking about it and organizing the data, which you just can't seem to agree with, despite they are facts.

    But okay, lets say the roster was re-built since 2010 when Bill Cowher players aged. What has he done since? Crickets...

    But to put for you to review, check post 2010, and tell me was was so great. LOL



  8. #188
    Senior Member Array title="hawaiiansteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> hawaiiansteeler's Avatar

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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
    ......and get Shoes a TE

    That’s all I want for 2020
    I agree, that poor man has been suffering long enough

  9. #189
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    I agree, that poor man has been suffering long enough
    I think it's time and TE played a big part getting both teams to the SB this year.

  10. #190
    Senior Member Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute"> pczach's Avatar

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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    This thread is over. You can not change facts that Tomlin's teams have under achieved where it counts. 3-6 in the last nine playoff games and a losing to sub .500 teams too often. Fact. Not a narrative. The narrative is thinking about it and organizing the data, which you just can't see, to talk.

    But olay, lets say the roster was re-built since 2010 when Bill COwher players, the ones Tomlin won a super bowl with were on the way out. What has he done since? Crickets....


    You're right. This thread is over.

    You're a troll.

    Only a someone with an agenda would call the second winningest coach in the NFL over the span of his career a failure, a loser, and a horrible coach.

    A head coach that has led his team to multiple Super Bowls is not a shiitty coach.

    A head coach that gets the most out of his teams when there is adversity isn't a shitty coach.

    Nobody is saying Tomlin is without flaws, but everything I just listed above and common sense says that he is at bare minimum a quality NFL head coach. To say otherwise is nonsense or something much more sinister. For you to not acknowledge that is so shortsighted that it is damning every point you try to make because the baseline of your argument is so far from reality.

    Every coach you say is better than him has equal or worse numbers than Tomlin pretty much across the board. Those coaches are also considered the elite coaches in the NFL along with Tomlin...so it's hard to understand what the hell you are bitching about.
    Last edited by pczach; 02-01-2020 at 08:34 AM.

  11. #191
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    Your right. This thread is over.

    You're a troll.

    Only a someone with an agenda would call the second winningest coach in the NFL over the span of his career a failure, a loser, and a horrible coach.

    A head coach that has led his team to multiple Super Bowls is not a shiitty coach.

    A head coach that gets the most out of his teams when there is adversity isn't a shitty coach.

    Nobody is saying Tomlin is without flaws, but everything I just listed above and common sense says that he is at bare minimum a quality NFL head coach. To say otherwise is nonsense or something much more sinister. For you to not acknowledge that is so shortsighted that it is damning every point you try to make because the baseline of your argument is so far from reality.

    Every coach you say is better than him has equal or worse numbers than Tomlin pretty much across the board. Those coaches are also considered the elite coaches in the NFL along with Tomlin...so it's hard to understand what the hell you are bitching about.
    From here it's only unmasking a Tomlin fanboy who can not say what I'm posting, real numbers and results don't count. Tomlin has the better team more often than not. He get upset too often.

    Exactly what does Tomlin do well as the coach? This ought to be a hoot, he delegates to the OC for the offense, and his cover 2 bull crap 4-3 has never made an impact in Pittsburgh. He came from Minny and that defense was average. I see zero side line coaching. He fired Arians a good coach, and hired Haley. What does that tell you? His use of time outs isn't good, and he use of the red flag has bene bad over the past three years. In game adjustments are lacking. Yes he wins a lots of game, thanks to Ben and who Colbert has drafted about 17 different pro bowl player by my count and what looks to be at least FOUR Hall of fame players, playing against the Brown and Benglas 4 times a year. The better coaches, the elite would have won more in the playoffs, and perhaps another super bowl by now.

    Once again, relative to his talent he is an under achiever. Not average or good. The word quality to me means something. He's not elite, and to be quality should have achieved more than he has. There are better health coaches who don't win as much...they didn't have Ben, Troy, Harrison. Ward, Brown, Faneca, DeCastro, Heyward, Watt and others. Ben's 4th quarter comeback in many cases mask the coaching flaws.

    Please comment on 2011-current in post #187, and tell me what is quality. I'll be waiting to read it. I doubt you will even attempt to do so, because what you see is not quality. I do not post nearly as much as you do, so don't expect me to post in the minute you post something, but I will check back in later on to see if you can reply to post #187.

  12. #192
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    From here it's only unmasking a Tomlin fanboy who can not say what I'm posting, real numbers and results don't count. Tomlin has the better team more often than not. He get upset too often.

    Exactly what does Tomlin do well as the coach? This ought to be a hoot, he delegates to the OC for the offense, and his cover 2 bull crap 4-3 has never made an impact in Pittsburgh. He came from Minny and that defense was average. I see zero side line coaching. He fired Arians a good coach, and hired Haley. What does that tell you? His use of time outs isn't good, and he use of the red flag has bene bad over the past three years. In game adjustments are lacking. Yes he wins a lots of game, thanks to Ben and who Colbert has drafted about 17 different pro bowl player by my count and what looks to be at least FOUR Hall of fame players, playing against the Brown and Benglas 4 times a year. The better coaches, the elite would have won more in the playoffs, and perhaps another super bowl by now.

    Once again, relative to his talent he is an under achiever. Not average or good. The word quality to me means something. He's not elite, and to be quality should have achieved more than he has. There are better health coaches who don't win as much...they didn't have Ben, Troy, Harrison. Ward, Brown, Faneca, DeCastro, Heyward, Watt and others. Ben's 4th quarter comeback in many cases mask the coaching flaws.

    Please comment on 2011-current in post #187, and tell me what is quality. I'll be waiting to read it. I doubt you will even attempt to do so, because what you see is not quality. I do not post nearly as much as you do, so don't expect me to post in the minute you post something, but I will check back in later on to see if you can reply to post #187.
    What you posted in 187, you had already posted... and people already replied about it.



    Same goes for the Bengals being in the playoffs (although, that was another thread).



    SUMMATION:
    Why would anyone respond to you??? Really. You’re not going to read it.

  13. #193
    Senior Member Array title="hawaiiansteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> hawaiiansteeler's Avatar

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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    What you posted in 187, you had already posted... and people already replied about it.



    Same goes for the Bengals being in the playoffs (although, that was another thread).



    SUMMATION:
    Why would anyone respond to you??? Really. You’re not going to read it.
    he's a broken record, repeating his same old agenda over and over again. Six Rings needs to learn that when you're in a deep hole, the first thing you need to do is to stop digging.

    what I don't get is, what's he trying to accomplish?

  14. #194
    Senior Member Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute"> pczach's Avatar

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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    What you posted in 187, you had already posted... and people already replied about it.



    Same goes for the Bengals being in the playoffs (although, that was another thread).



    SUMMATION:
    Why would anyone respond to you??? Really. You’re not going to read it.


    The second winningest coach to Belichick since he came into the league is a bum. Don't you know?

    Having a better won/loss record than both Chuck Noll and Bill Cowher did in their first 13 seasons makes him a fraud. Don't you know?

    Haven't you heard? He's a terrible coach.

    Tomlin has led Pittsburgh to a 133-74-1 record in the regular season since becoming the team's head coach in 2007(.642 winning percentage)- the second best in the NFL during that time span.


    Other than that, he hasn't done anything. He's a total disaster as a coach.

    We know that because a troll keeps coming here to tell that to everybody with only the stats he wants you to care about. You see...stats only matter if they are his stats. Everyone else's stats don't matter.

    Like you just said teeg. People respond directly to his posts, yet he acts like his profound thoughts haven't been addressed and he demands more answers as if nothing was said. He's delusional.

















  15. #195
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    This thread is over. You can not change facts that Tomlin's teams have under achieved where it counts. 3-6 in the last nine playoff games and a losing to sub .500 teams too often. Fact. Not a narrative. The narrative is thinking about it and organizing the data, which you just can't seem to agree with, despite they are facts.

    But okay, lets say the roster was re-built since 2010 when Bill Cowher players aged. What has he done since? Crickets...

    But to put for you to review, check post 2010, and tell me was was so great. LOL

    Not only this, but it seems his teams are not often prepared
    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Tomlin is that good.



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  16. #196
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    what I don't get is, what's he trying to accomplish?
    It’s odd... because, there are times when he posts very good, thoughtful stuff. For example, in the draft folder, his analysis of Jacob Eason is very good. (And, No, it doesn’t sound like he cut-&-pasted someone else’s writing.)

    Then, there are other times where he posts the same thing over & over & over... and then, ignores any &!all responses.

    At least he’s sticking to one thread, because his M.O. fior a while was to start a new thread (stating the exact same thing) every time he entered the forum. Now, while he does indeed re-post the same things (and ignores replies) at least he’s only garbaging* up one thread.

    (Bonus points to anyone who gets that reference. )

  17. #197
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    only the stats he wants you to care about. You see...stats only matter if they are his stats. Everyone else's stats don't matter.
    Stats can lie.

    Tomlin is 0-3 in his past three games. Can anyone defend a 0.00 winning percentage??? Nope. I didn’t think so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by smokin3000gt View Post
    Not only this, but it seems his teams are not often prepared
    Plus, Tomlin is 3-6 in his last nine playoff games.

  18. #198
    Senior Member Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Born2Steel's Avatar

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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    "...In playoff games..." What kind of coach ONLY gets his team to the playoffs 8 of 13 years? And how many of those 5 years missing the playoffs came down to the final week? I can count 3 years without putting too much strain on remembering as I type this.

  19. #199
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    I have the solution! Hire Ken Wisenhunt.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...s/#coaches::14

  20. #200
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I have the solution! Hire Ken Wisenhunt.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...s/#coaches::14
    I’m not really sure what I’m looking at.

    Never mind.

  21. #201
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
    I’m not really sure what I’m looking at.

    Never mind.
    Yeah. It didn't format the way I wanted. But the Whiz has a really high playoff winning %. So let's get him back in the 'Burgh and start the winning!

  22. #202
    Senior Member Array title="smokin3000gt has a reputation beyond repute"> smokin3000gt's Avatar

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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    #nEeDMoARwINs
    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Tomlin is that good.



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  23. #203
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    It’s odd... because, there are times when he posts very good, thoughtful stuff. For example, in the draft folder, his analysis of Jacob Eason is very good. (And, No, it doesn’t sound like he cut-&-pasted someone else’s writing.)

    Then, there are other times where he posts the same thing over & over & over... and then, ignores any &!all responses.

    At least he’s sticking to one thread, because his M.O. fior a while was to start a new thread (stating the exact same thing) every time he entered the forum. Now, while he does indeed re-post the same things (and ignores replies) at least he’s only garbaging* up one thread.

    (Bonus points to anyone who gets that reference. )
    It is not I who ignores the facts, it is the homers. Many here agree with me. Come back to me after Tomlin is 3-7 in his last 10 playoff games, if he can make the playoffs again. The responses I get DO NOT change how it has gone down since 2010. Oh there's more material here, and I can easily add to it next season as Tomlin blunders his way though it. Ya want that?

    Yes, my posts can be good and insightful. Thanks. I played and coached. I now what I 'm talking about, but sometimes and this goes for any profession when you go against the grain of popularity, they shun you.

    Quite Frankly, the team the way it finished looked like a 5-11 squad. We were +8 in turnovers. Don't count that amount of turnover or defensive scores again. The season ended on a sour not losing 3 games in a row. Another collapse, though last season was worse. What gives, the Steelers have talent.

  24. #204
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I have the solution! Hire Ken Wisenhunt.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...s/#coaches::14
    Not a bad idea. Our new head coach in 2021 can hire any OC he wants. I'd rather Arians, but Tomlin did not want him back.Too late. Bruce was sooo much better than Haley, and Wisenhunt too. Give Bruce a good OL to work with ( Which he didn't have in the Steelers ), and his play calling and coaching style works best with Ben and the way the NFL is going. Arians of course was the OC when we last won the suer bowl. So it's not only the on field blunders that can suck from Tomlin, he hasn't been exactly good picking his staff. That is unless you think Todd Haley was a good choice, and are cool with our current special teams coach.

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    I love how people claim to have deep knowledge on a subject and then attempt to set up either or binary choices with no room for a middle ground.

    Ever meet or talk to someone that really is a subject matter expert? All they want to talk about is the lack of black and white. They put everything in shades of gray with tons of context.

    Could it be possible to be both an excellent football coach and still not achieve all the success possible? No. That's just silly.

  26. #206
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I love how people claim to have deep knowledge on a subject and then attempt to set up either or binary choices with no room for a middle ground.

    Ever meet or talk to someone that really is a subject matter expert? All they want to talk about is the lack of black and white. They put everything in shades of gray with tons of context.

    Could it be possible to be both an excellent football coach and still not achieve all the success possible? No. That's just silly.



    Hopes of reasonable thinking will always be crushed at a Steelers message board.

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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Yeah. It didn't format the way I wanted. But the Whiz has a really high playoff winning %. So let's get him back in the 'Burgh and start the winning!
    Is it legal to let Tomlin coach against the good teams and let Whisenhunt coach against the bad teams and in the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

  28. #208
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    Hopes of reasonable thinking will always be crushed at a Steelers message board.
    Too true! Honestly, at this point, I don't even really remember what the argument is anymore. Everything is just muddled together and all I can follow anymore is that "Tomlin Bad because Angry No Win Super Bowl!"

    In terms of OC's - there are pros and cons to them all. For instance a case can be made for each of the following:
    Arians can draw up an offense that generates TONS of yards. He also gets his QB hit a ton and sometimes forgets to run the ball.
    Haley can draw up an offense that is also really good. He just makes weird game day play-calls and is inefficient in the red zone.
    Fichtner can be efficient with drives and in the red zone. He struggles to get creative or clever with his play calls in adverse situations.

    If they argument is that Tomlin should be fired - ok -- shmaybe? If the argument that a scenario exists where the Steelers fire Tomlin and he wouldn't be hired within a week of the end of the season -- well that is just ridiculous.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Is it legal to let Tomlin coach against the good teams and let Whisenhunt coach against the bad teams and in the playoffs?
    Time to be a trailblazing franchise! Like when Jaws and Cunningham swapped at QB -- just with head coaches!

  29. #209
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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Time to be a trailblazing franchise! Like when Jaws and Cunningham swapped at QB -- just with head coaches!
    we need to add Cowher to the mix, let him take over whenever we have a 10 point lead for some turtle ball

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    Senior Member Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Born2Steel's Avatar

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    Re: Mike Tomlin and Ben and the playoffs. Some interesting numbers.

    If Crash Rings wants to replace Tomlin and cites his reasons for why is a poor playoff record over the last 5 years of his 13 year tenure then let him vent away. Your responses only feed the troll and continue this. It is so redundant.

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