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Thread: This was basically an evaluation year, what did we learn?

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    Senior Member Array title="Fire Goodell has a reputation beyond repute"> Fire Goodell's Avatar

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    This was basically an evaluation year, what did we learn?

    So although this season wasn't a playoff one, I thought it was productive, if anything to see what we currently have. Here's what I think about where we stand position wise. I will say though we're not 'just a QB away' from a championship, we need a little more help than that on offense IMO. But QB is a big piece of the puzzle.

    QB - We had a chance to see two starting QB's other than Ben this year. I know that franchise QB's are hard to find, but both QB's looked like anything but future backups. Duck Hodges, love the story, love the underdog theme, until defenses figured him out. He's a good kid, but with his limitations, I see him being out of the league in a couple years. Duck mania faded as quickly as it started, really shows how long the average NFL career is for most low / undrafted players. Mason hasn't impressed me much at all, until the Jets game... And then he was knocked out. I've been waiting for a QB to throw laser passes between defenders and I felt like for the first time, Rudolph showed that ability. He at least proved his arm strength isn't an issue if he can keep his mechanics sharp. He probably could greatly benefit from a QB coach. Although I wasn't overly impressed with Rudolph, I think the guy still has a possible future and haven't given up on him entirely.

    RB - I was one of the people who believed James Conner was gonna run wild this year, but he's made of glass. He's really gonna have to have a huge season next year if I'm ever to become a believer again. Snell is a good RB2 to give your main guy a breather, and I like him in short yardage. He's basically Isaac Redman #2, a good RB2 but not someone you want to center your offense around. I hope Whyte stays on the team, I like his potential and honestly think he's tough enough to possibly be a feature back (who knows, he's bigger than Devin Singletary and Christian McCaffery)

    WR - Juju was the biggest disappointment of all. For the guy who was hungry to prove himself as a legitimate WR1, the guy totally shit the bed in key situations, which doesn't give me much confidence in his ability to become 'The guy'. He still hasn't proved anything to me other than he could be a dangerous #2 to complement a #1. Diontae Johnson is lighting in a bottle and I see a lot of AB / Sanders in the guy. I think he's our future WR1, and Drake was high on this kid for a reason. I already thought he was the best and most reliable WR out of our WR group, and he was a rookie. Expecting him to make the jump next year. Washington I think can be a quality #3. Maybe something more, but he's the type of WR that needs a better quarterback to really evaluate. Hard to make combat catches if passes are placed horribly or off the mark entirely.

    TE - Has been a need since Heath was gone, and we replaced him with late round picks and signings off the trash heap. I'll be disappointed if TE isn't in the draft somewhere.

    OL - Sadly, I think we've seen the best out of this current group, years ago. Pouncey I don't know what his issue is, or if the guy is washed up, but he's not been earning his paycheck. Probably leads the league in bad snaps, and his blocking hasn't been great either. Foster I'm guessing will be replaced by Finney. Time to look for future replacements as the group is getting a little aged.

    Defense - Hope they can find a way to keep Dupree and Hargrave. My focus for this group would be to just keep it intact any way possible. Tuitt is the James Conner of D-linemen. Great when he's healthy, until he has some season ending injury in week 3-5. Sucks because we're on the hook with this guy for another couple years, so I hope by some miracle of god that he can last an entire season. Cutting him next year would be a 15M cap hit, and 9M the year after, so that probably isn't even on the table.

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    Senior Member Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute"> AtlantaDan's Avatar

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    Re: This was basically an evaluation year, what did we learn?

    QB - they saw enough with Mason to know not to need to sign him to a long term deal and keep him off the free agency market before he goes into the last year of his rookie deal in the 2021 season. Duck had his 15 minutes of fame and is a 2020 training camp arm before he is released. With other needs the second round pick will not be for a QB as the Steelers pray for Ben's recovery and probably sign a journeyman vet to go with Mason.

    RB - Conner is not the man - another player who does not need to be locked into a long term deal before he can hit free agency after his rookie deal expires after 2020. Need to draft someone in the 2020 draft

    WR - JuJu had the most disappointing season of any starter. No way he will be extended an offer he will take going into the last season of his rookie deal - if he returns to form and has a Dupree like contract year so be it. Washington was much better in his second season and Johnson showed glimmers of stardom along with finally providing a threat on punt returns.

    TE - for whatever reason Duck & Mason did not throw to the TE, which usually is the best friend of a a young QB learning to read coverages. Another need in the draft.

    OL - a disaster. Foster being brought back on a two year deal did not work, Pouncey declined significantly, and AV also slipped big time. Rebuild coming here with what would be the first round pick if it had not been traded in the home run Miami trade for Minkah.

    Defense - I bet they franchise Dupree and let Hargarve walk with Tuitt coming back. Bush was less of a force as the season progressed but still justified trading up to get him and Barron improved. Edmunds was the weak link in the secondary. With so many issues on offense agree this unit needs to be kept together for 2020.

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    Senior Member Array title="EzraTank has a reputation beyond repute"> EzraTank's Avatar

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    Re: This was basically an evaluation year, what did we learn?

    QB - To me we learned that we DEFINITELY need to know if Ben can continue or not as soon as possible. Mason/Duck are nothing more than a backup and #3 guy in an emergency. Our crappy blocking didn't help either but neither did their ability (or lack thereof) to make quick throws to the correct reads. Rudolph looked like a statue way too many times, took huge hits and had no mobility or pocket presence. Duck just looked like an undrafted #3 QB with a little more mobility but nothing else. Whether Ben comes back or not we need to sign a Bridgewater/Dalton/Keenam/Fitzpatrick type of backup as a top priority to bridge the next few years. There is no way we get a QB in this draft at the position we're drafting at so signing a journeyman at this point to bridge our gap is the only option with the hope that Ben can come back and find 1-3 more years of arm left in his body.

    RB - Conner is what he is. A Gingerbread man that falls apart as soon as you touch him. Unless we can get a RB off the free agent market (and there isn't much out there worth shit) this position should be their top priority in the draft. If you fix our OL this position will be better.

    TE - McDonald is the TE glass version of Conner. We need to draft/sign/trade for one.

    WR - Juju was horrible. At this point with all our needs we just need to let Washington, Juju and Johnson figure this out. Adding a legit NFL QB will help them all.

    OL - Horrible. Foster looked fat and slow so many times yesterday. We need to start plugging in replacements via the draft.

    DEF - Sign Dupree and Hargrave and get Tuitt healthy. Bush will be much better with a year of experience. At least our defense is trending in the right direction.

    and finally ...

    COACHING... we all know this is the 800 lbs gorilla in the room. Our OC is just trash. Our Special Teams are trash. The defense played better so I'll give the DC a pass for now. But until we replace Ben's buddy at OC we will not win anything. The Ravens have set the bar for the AFC North and we are all chasing them now. Lamar is turning out to NOT be a one trick pony and if we don't figure them out soon we could expect years of looking up at them and admiring their multiple Superbowl wins.

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    Senior Member Array title="Edman has a reputation beyond repute">

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    Re: This was basically an evaluation year, what did we learn?

    Quarterback- Considering all three quarterbacks Ben included struggled similarly in the same offense, It’s difficult for me to gauge how good they are. I don’t think the QB position is the problem in the offense. An aging Ben coming back won’t solve the glaring offensive problems in 2020.

    RB- James Conner is a great story, but he’s is just not the guy for the Long term future. He is way too fragile. The Steelers above all else needed a dependable workhorse back and running game to take the heat off of Mason and Duck, and they never got it. Benny Snell and Kerrith Whyte stood out in what limited opportunities they had.

    WR- I’m already tired of Juju. A very sweet guy, but he’s not a number #1 receiver, or even a #2 at this point. Mason or Duck’s deficiencies doesn’t make up for the fact that this dude developed hands of stone overnight. Stone hands are not something that is easily fixable. Diontae Johnson and James Washington are okay, but we have no #1 receiver on the team.

    OL- Mike Munchak is sorely missed. What was once a strength on the team is now a glaring weakness again.

    Coaching- Ben’s buddy Randy Fichtner is not an NFL Offensive Coordinator. Period. Keith Butler needs to prove that 2019 wasn’t a fluke. Mike Tomlin did a solid job pulling the team together, but once again, he is being let down by the incompetence of his subordinates.

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    Re: This was basically an evaluation year, what did we learn?

    Well they need to find out if Ben can come back time will tell with that and, Hodges & Mason are back ups nothing more. They need to draft another RB & TE and, the o-line was an issue late in the season against good defenses QB's were running for their life. Juju had a real bad year between being hurt and, just not living up to be a true number one receiver drops/killer fumbles at bad times. The good was Johnson & Washington at WR's they showed they can be big time play makers I thought Benny Snell showed some heart and, maybe he can turn into something. The defense got better this year after Fitzpatrick got here but, now what becomes of Dupree? TJ Watt could be the DPY and, what a season he had. I think they need to upgrade the o-line. Finchtner needs to go the play calling was real bad at times even Ben was shaking his head quite often.

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    Re: This was basically an evaluation year, what did we learn?

    QB- I don't think Duck and Mason are better than career backups but these guys had no help, at all. The offense around them was straight up trash and neither were given a proper QB coach to help them either. The fact that Ben struggled says a lot. I want to see these two guy play in a good system with a good OC, good WRs, and a good o-line

    RB- Connor is not a full time starter but I think they have some good rotational pieces at RB. I like Samuels I think he is good when used (of course idiot Fichtner didn't use him much). Snell showed he could shoulder some of the load. Whyte also flashed some potential too (of course idiot Fichtner had him rotting the bench too)

    WR- This group was straight up trash. Juju is not a no. 1 receiver and he is a backup at best without AB. They need a no. 1 guy to make him look good. All Washington has done for 2 years is flash potential in about 3 games, that's it. I'm still waiting for him to show he can be a full time starter. Johnson he showed something late, we'll see how year 2 goes. The best WR at this point may be Deon Cain based purely on flashes this group is so bad. Losing AB to crazy was a devastating blow.

    OL- Another devastating blow was Mike Munchak. Munchak handed Sarrett the keys to a convertible and Sarrett immediately crashed it into the wall and totaled it. That's a metaphor for what happened to the o-line. Everyone was worse by Sarrett. AV fell off quality wise, Pouncey looked disinterested, Foster is done, the other o-linemen were not coached up well at all, DeCastro had his worst season. This o-line was late 00s bad. Fire Sarrett and replace him with someone from the outside

    Defense- Great unit. TJ is a franchise cornerstone, Minkah is a difference maker, Bush has pro bowl potential and made multiple plays. Defense has a lot of talented pieces

    Coach- I think Butler still is a deficient coordinator who this time was carried by high end talent that saved his job. I can understand them keeping just because if it ain't broke don't fix it. Why is Danny Smith still here? Art needs to understands that sometimes coaches need fired. Tomlin was carried by turnovers from high end defensive talent then went full blown Tomlin by losing must win games against the awful Jets and the Ravens backups.
    That leaves Randy Fichtner, oh my god, this guy is so incompetent. Let me give you Randy Fichtner's offensive plan.
    Plan A: Let Ben take care of everything, he's got everything under control
    Plan B: Ummm, ummm, ummm, ummm, Ben's my buddy, he likes me
    This guy is woefully incompetent on every level. Basic things such as basic play construction, situational football, and the idea that if something isn't working, it shouldn't be run. How many times on 3rd or 4th and less than 5 yards is he going to call for a pass short of the sticks? I know some people are going to defend him because apparently he didn't have anything to work with, he didn't have any good QBs (QBs that he was supposed to be coaching up anyway), but good coaching can sometimes elevate players. Look at Greg Roman who has designed an offense to maximize Lamar Jackson's abilities. Some OCs are playing chess, lesser OCs are playing checkers, this guy is playing tic-tac-toe with himself and constantly getting ties. I don't care if he is Ben's buddy, get him away from playcalling. Plus if Ben is not back to full strength or gets injured again we will again suffer through his extreme incompetence and him throwing his poorly designed offense at the defense and wondering why it's not working.

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    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: This was basically an evaluation year, what did we learn?

    Here’s some thoughts...

    QB: I hope Ben’s injury isn’t career-ending. Paired with this defense, even 80.% of Ben’s former self would be enough to make us the Super Bowl favorite. On the positive side, someone suggested that Ben has been fighting that elbow injury for two seasons... and he may return BETTER than before. That... would be amazing. That said, I’m drafting a QB fairly early in every draft (R2 or R3) until Ben retires; hopefully, we find one who is at least “good enough” to be a starter for a decade.

    RB: When healthy, Conner is great. Alas... Snell is good. And, Samuels & Whyte add the pass catching & chèvre of pace dynamic to the rotation. As long as the OC doesn’t run a limited “set” plays with each RB, this is a very solid group.

    WR: Diontae Johnson led all NFL rookies with 59 receptions. Washington became a reliable deep threat. I’d play both of them outside, with JuJu in the slot. JuJu is golden across the middle; alas, Mason & Duck both ignored the middle of the field. Really. I’d extend JuJu ASAP. His stock is low, but when Ben was in there (without AB) JuJu was on pace for a season with 108 receptions, 1476 yards, and 12 TDs.

    TE: Duh

    O-LINE: Munchak leaving Washington half of the problem. Age is the other half... and next year, this O-line will be a year older (and, I’m not sure that even Munchak could help them).

    DEFENSE: Tag Dupree.

    COACHES: Fichtner will remain as long as Ben does. Period. Since Tomlin (obviously) took over as the DC, maybe he will fire Butler. Probably not, but the door has been cracked ajar for that to be a possibility.

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    Senior Member Array title="Steeler-in-west has a reputation beyond repute"> Steeler-in-west's Avatar

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    Re: This was basically an evaluation year, what did we learn?

    QB-Ben, Mason, and a Vet backup. Let Mason and the Vet backup vie for the no 2 spot (bring back Landry Jones, if the steelers don’t want to pay a lot of money to another backup?) no room for Hodges, seen enough, and so have opposing teams apparently

    RB- can’t rely on Conner, this is a draft need, or pickup a vet (Bell?)

    WR- would be good to get a vet here too, hopefully one that can contribute, although, I still think juju can shine playing with Ben.

    OL- draft for a guard and tackle, Pouncey will be around as long as Ben is here, which is not more than a couple years anyway.

    defense- another safety and run stuffer in the draft, have to keep Dupree, Hargrave too if possible

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    Re: This was basically an evaluation year, what did we learn?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    Quarterback- Considering all three quarterbacks Ben included struggled similarly in the same offense, It’s difficult for me to gauge how good they are. I don’t think the QB position is the problem in the offense. An aging Ben coming back won’t solve the glaring offensive problems in 2020.

    RB- James Conner is a great story, but he’s is just not the guy for the Long term future. He is way too fragile. The Steelers above all else needed a dependable workhorse back and running game to take the heat off of Mason and Duck, and they never got it. Benny Snell and Kerrith Whyte stood out in what limited opportunities they had.

    WR- I’m already tired of Juju. A very sweet guy, but he’s not a number #1 receiver, or even a #2 at this point. Mason or Duck’s deficiencies doesn’t make up for the fact that this dude developed hands of stone overnight. Stone hands are not something that is easily fixable. Diontae Johnson and James Washington are okay, but we have no #1 receiver on the team.

    OL- Mike Munchak is sorely missed. What was once a strength on the team is now a glaring weakness again.

    Coaching- Ben’s buddy Randy Fichtner is not an NFL Offensive Coordinator. Period. Keith Butler needs to prove that 2019 wasn’t a fluke. Mike Tomlin did a solid job pulling the team together, but once again, he is being let down by the incompetence of his subordinates.
    Exactly !! Can't say it much better, hit the nail on the head all the way through. I've said all year Conner is a 'bust', china doll of glass, undependable and not there when you need him...get rid of him. JuJu a 23yr old with a 16yr old mentality, i.e. driving 100+mph and filming on UTube..he's a future A.Brown....get rid of him. And QB position...we better be thinking very serious on this position, Ben is going to be gone very soon. I would also get rid of Pouncey and the high school punter Berry...what a joke. With the statement of the thread EVALUATION YEAR ??? How many years do you have to evaluate ??? Seems we've been doing this shit for years !!

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    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

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    Re: This was basically an evaluation year, what did we learn?

    Those who say Juju is not even a #2 are prisoners of the moment... to the degree it's hilarious.

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    Re: This was basically an evaluation year, what did we learn?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Those who say Juju is not even a #2 are prisoners of the moment... to the degree it's hilarious.
    NOT hilarious when he can't catch and/or hold onto the damn ball !!

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    Re: This was basically an evaluation year, what did we learn?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Those who say Juju is not even a #2 are prisoners of the moment... to the degree it's hilarious.
    I think he's a good #2, but he hasn't proven he's #1 material. I honestly think DJ will be that guy

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    Re: This was basically an evaluation year, what did we learn?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Those who say Juju is not even a #2 are prisoners of the moment... to the degree it's hilarious.

    Agreed.

    Thank goodness there are still some people that are thinking clearly.

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