For the second season in a row, the season ends in a collapse

[Six Rings]

Three losses in a row, including one to a losing Jets teams.


2018 was an epic collapse, and the Steelers had a healthy Ben for that year.


It's been nearly 4 years since the Steelers won a playoff game, and unless a change is made soon, it will be three seasons in a row of not making the playoffs and five years since our last playoff win.


As I said before, Tomlin is 3-6 in his last nine playoff game, and two of those wins were gift variety vs. a backup QB, and the Bungles who gave away the game with stupid penalties late.


Mike Tomlin needs to go. The nail in the coffin for those on the fence should have happened today. Standing on the sidelines saying virtually nothing while watching his team get blown out by back up Ravens players, the announcers quoted Tomlin that Randy Fichtner has been " Fantastic " this season. I'm at a loss of words, but a song came to mind. Fool in the rain, by Led Zeppelin.

[AtlantaDan]

Three losses in a row, including one to a losing Jets teams.


2018 was an epic collapse, and the Steelers had a healthy Ben for that year.


It's been nearly 4 years since the Steelers won a playoff game, and unless a change is made soon, it will be three seasons in a row of not making the playoffs and five years since our last playoff win.


As I said before, Tomlin is 3-6 in his last nine playoff game, and two of those wins were gift variety vs. a backup QB, and the Bungles who gave away the game with stupid penalties late.


Mike Tomlin needs to go. The nail in the coffin for those on the fence should have happened today. Standing on the sidelines saying virtually nothing while watching his team get blown out by back up Ravens players, the announcers quoted Tomlin that Randy Fichtner has been " Fantastic " this season. I'm at a loss of words, but a song came to mind. Fool in the rain, by Led Zeppelin.

Walk me through who would be better than Tomlin

Be careful what you wish for, especially if you believe it cannot get much worse

[Mojouw]

Y'all just can't take losing. It's really comical the emotional over reactions. So glad no one on here is in charge of anything really important.

[Six Rings]

Walk me through who would be better than Tomlin

Be careful what you wish for, especially if you believe it cannot get much worse

Tomlin has poor clock management, little if any in game adjustments, offers zero side line coaching, makes really stupid calls, and can't hire an OC ( Todd Haley or Randy F ) to save his life.

He's lucky to have a lot of top players to work with. But you wanted a list. See the below link:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...sel-gets-going

[st33lersguy]

The "Coach of the Year" had his team totally unprepared and sloppy against the trainwreck Jets and the Ratbirds backups in must win situations. When Minkah Fitzpatrick, TJ Watt, or in a couple games Devin Bush weren't bailing out the rest of the team affecting games by themselves, the team was lost

[AtlantaDan]

Tomlin has poor clock management, little if any in game adjustments, offers zero side line coaching, makes really stupid calls, and can't hire an OC ( Todd Haley or Randy F ) to save his life.

He's lucky to have a lot of top players to work with. But you wanted a list. See the below link:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...sel-gets-going

I can cut and paste links too - so you would hire anyone on that list over Tomlin, including Jim Caldwell and Marvin Lewis? LOL

The part you left out is if AJRII fired Tomlin tonight he would be hired over anyone on that list if an owner wanted to pay what Tomlin wanted and Tomlin did not decide to wait for a better job to open up at his price

[Born2Steel]

Tomlin took a 4-12 team and made them an 8-8 team with the potential to have done even more. Stop the whining.

[Shoes]

It's a waste of time talking about Tomlin being fired and I'd be shocked if Fich or Bulter would get the ax. The least they could do is get a good QB and WR coach. Losing Mann & Drake was a punch in the gut. Ben didn't have much success with this WR corps either.

[Hawkman]

This thread made me laugh out loud.

[Six Rings]

The "Coach of the Year" had his team totally unprepared and sloppy against the trainwreck Jets and the Ratbirds backups in must win situations.

Losing to sub .500 teams like the Jets and the Browns have become a Tomlin hallmark. I've never seen a team with as much talent as we have just drop games to bad football teams. The results cost us making the playoffs or seeding.


I can't find one person who thinks Tomlin is a good coach with reasons as to how he puts his players in the best position to win.


I highly suspect Tomlin is liked for political reasons, or because he sounds like a nice guy to have a beer with. It ain't X's and O's, or taking a part of the game and specializing in it. Like I said he's a figurehead on the sidleenes who barley speaks and does not have play chart. Sometimes he makes bad decisions in when to kick or when to go for it. His use of the red flag can be comical.


We might have had a touchdown catch today. That play should have been red flaged as the replay showed the other foot looked to be in bounds. Tomlin does nothing, the result we kick a field goal. The call might have been reversed, why not red flag it when you are talking about the difference being a touchdown?

In the past it was suggested someone else should handle the time outs and red flags.Tomlin declined. While I do think Tomlin knowns the rules, I do not think he understands how the refs interpret them. He was something like 0-15 on his last red flag calls until this year.

[teegre]

The defense kept them in games that they had no business even being close to winning... and Tomlin essentially took over the defense.

As far as the past three games... Duck and Berry lost two of those games. The third game was a Marcus Maye tip away from a win.

No starting QB.
No starting RB.
Top two WRs gone.
Top TE gone for several games.
OC gone for several games.

SUMMATION:
Name another coach who would have won 8 games with that offense?

[Mojouw]

Losing to sub .500 teams like the Jets and the Browns have become a Tomlin hallmark. I've never seen a team with as much talent as we have just drop games to bad football teams. The results cost us making the playoffs or seeding.


I can't find one person who thinks Tomlin is a good coach with reasons as to how he puts his players in the best position to win.


I highly suspect Tomlin is liked for political reasons, or because he sounds like a nice guy to have a beer with. It ain't X's and O's, or taking a part of the game and specializing in it. Like I said he's a figurehead on the sidleenes who barley speaks and does not have play chart. Sometimes he makes bad decisions in when to kick or when to go for it. His use of the red flag can be comical.


We might have had a touchdown catch today. That play should have been red flaged as the replay showed the other foot looked to be in bounds. Tomlin does nothing, the result we kick a field goal. The call might have been reversed, why not red flag it when you are talking about the difference being a touchdown?

In the past it was suggested someone else should handle the time outs and red flags.Tomlin declined. While I do think Tomlin knowns the rules, I do not think he understands how the refs interpret them. He was something like 0-15 on his last red flag calls until this year.

Start hanging out with smarter football fans.

Aside from Fouts, no one thought DJ was in bounds. Even DJ didn't say he caught it.

[Six Rings]

Tomlin took a 4-12 team and made them an 8-8 team with the potential to have done even more. Stop the whining.

When you have an amazing defense like we do that produces turnovers and money kicker, you pretty much start out at 8-8.

The problem is we play like a 4-12 team too often. Today for example Or vs the Jets or Browns

The Steelers have won just three division title in the last nine seasons in a division that included the Browns and Bungles. We have not won a playoff game in four years, and we are 3-6 in our last nine playoff games. Anyone who thinks that's good doesn't know much about football or has very low standards.

Look--Tomlin had a good start to his career, with a roster stocked of Bill Cohwer players, but its abundantly clear when those players aged / retired the Steelers declined. LeBeau and Munchak impacted the team more than he does. Todd Haley? Calling Randy F Fantastic? Keeping a very bad special teams coach?

[Six Rings]

Start hanging out with smarter football fans.

Aside from Fouts, no one thought DJ was in bounds. Even DJ didn't say he caught it.

DJ Wasn't looking at the white line, he was stretched out for the catch. Did he comment? I think now. The replay showed he got both feet in, worthy of a challenge. Without our offense it was worthy a red flag, in case you haven't noticed the play calling and offense have been rather poorly lately, despite what Tomlin thinks

[Hawkman]

When you have an amazing defense like we do that produces turnovers and money kicker, you pretty much start out at 8-8.

The problem is we play like a 4-12 team too often. Today for example Or vs the Jets or Browns

The Steelers have won just three division title in the last nine seasons in a division that included the Browns and Bungles. We have not won a playoff game in four years, and we are 3-6 in our last nine playoff games.

Look--Tomlin had a good start to his career, with a roster stocked of Bill Cohwer players, but its abundantly clear when those players aged / retired the Steelers declined. LeBeau and Munchak impacted the team more than he does. Todd Haley? Calling Randy F Fantastic? Keeping a very bad special teams coach?

Gee, I think that defense is all Tomlin’s. Not Cowher’s. Boz is Tomlin’s. Good grief. Tomlin is not going anywhere, so stop already.

[teegre]

As far as coordinators go...

Tomlin was forced to take on Haley, and Ben basically demanded Fichtner. Same goes with LeBeau bring a “must keep” and Butler being promised the job ten years ago.

[st33lersguy]

Tomlin took a 4-12 team and made them an 8-8 team with the potential to have done even more. Stop the whining.

No Kevin Colbert added key players who helped make key plays to turn them to 8-8. If Colbert doesn't trade up for Bush and he doesn't trade for Fitzpatrick, they are 3-13 or 4-12 all other things remaining constant, even Watt having an amazing year

[AtlantaDan]

I highly suspect Tomlin is liked for political reasons.

Because Tomlin is a Democrat?

Or is “political” code for something else?

[Six Rings]

Gee, I think that defense is all Tomlin’s. Not Cowher’s. Boz is Tomlin’s. Good grief. Tomlin is not going anywhere, so stop already.

Hawkman, I think you're right. 100% The real problem could be Art Rooney II, as he hires and fires the head coach and won't fire anyone. He might opt not to give a new contract which means we are stuck with Tomlin for a while longer.

I'd like to hear from the Tomlin backers, how much longer can you tolerate these type of results we have seen in the past four seasons. If the Steelers don't win a playoff game in past Five seasons ( Next season ) would that be enough for you to change your mind, or does it have to be six years or more? Open floor for that question.

[Mojouw]

DJ Wasn't looking at the white line, he was stretched out for the catch. Did he comment? I think now. The replay showed he got both feet in, worthy of a challenge. Without our offense it was worthy a red flag, in case you haven't noticed the play calling and offense have been rather poorly lately, despite what Tomlin thinks

I mean if we just ignore his right arm hitting the ground before the second foot came down.

[Six Rings]

As far as coordinators go...

Tomlin was forced to take on Haley, and Ben basically demanded Fichtner. Same goes with LeBeau bring a “must keep” and Butler being promised the job ten years ago.

He's not forced to do anything. He let Arians go, who is clearly better than Haley and Fitchner. That's the OC we won the last super bowl with by the way. Arians had a really bad OL to work with.

[pczach]

Tomlin has poor clock management, little if any in game adjustments, offers zero side line coaching, makes really stupid calls, and can't hire an OC ( Todd Haley or Randy F ) to save his life.

He's lucky to have a lot of top players to work with. But you wanted a list. See the below link:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...sel-gets-going

OK, Tomlin has poor clock management at times. I'll give you that one.

How do you know how many in-game adjustments he makes?

What type of sideline coaching are you talking about? Do you really think he doesn't do any coaching on the sideline? When he talks to people, or he calls the offense or defense together, what do you think he's doing? Getting take-out orders?

When he talks into the headset to others, is he talking football or is he calling his travel agent?

I mean seriously....you must have answers to some of these simple questions because you know something that the rest of us don't.

I posted a thread about an interview with Joe Haden who broke down how Tomlin coaches them up every day. He has meetings with all the position groups and goes over things. He literally goes into defensive meetings, and breaks stuff down and not only explains how to do something, but why. He draws things up when the team is struggling with something in-game, and his adjustments have an immediate positive affect on the field. But I'm sure you have more accurate information about what is said in an atmosphere you have absolutely zero access to.

I wasn't a huge Todd Haley fan, but he has a very good NFL mind. His play design is excellent. His implementation of that playbook and play calling is suspect at times. He was also an abrasive asshole everywhere he has been....and he was most likely the hire of Steelers management. They have control of most things, and keep institutional control of big hires in most cases from what I have heard reported. You are also saying Fichtner is horrible, but he hasn't had an opportunity to coach offense with a full arsenal. Bell held out all of last season, and AB blew a mental gasket and his starting couple quarterbacks were hurt or traded away this year. Nobody succeeds with that hand that was dealt to him.

In 2018 here's what the offense did under Fichtner:

They were #1 in passing yards.
They were #6 in points scored.
They were #4 in yards
They were #1 in red zone td percentage

Not exactly numbers that would normally get you fired.

I think people want to see your list....not a list you found on the internet.

[Hawkman]

No Kevin Colbert added key players who helped make key plays to turn them to 8-8. If Colbert doesn't trade up for Bush and he doesn't trade for Fitzpatrick, they are 3-13 or 4-12 all other things remaining constant, even Watt having an amazing year

....and you don’t think Tomlin had anything to do with those decisions?

[Six Rings]

I mean if we just ignore his right arm hitting the ground before the second foot came down.

You didn't get back to me if DJ didn't think it was a catch. Did the hand get in bounds? Yes. From here it's a judgement call. Refs can make calls go either way, but we have a chance for six points here and didn't try it. That is my point.

[Mojouw]

Here's the thing, the reason they play like a 4-12 team is that with Dasok Ruhodges under center, that's what they are.

[Mojouw]

You didn't get back to me if DJ didn't think it was a catch. Did the hand get in bounds? Yes. From here it's a judgement call. Refs can make calls go either way, but we have a chance for six points here and didn't try it. That is my point.

When players don't get up from the ground and demand a replay, you can almost always assume they know they didn't catch it.

[pczach]

No Kevin Colbert added key players who helped make key plays to turn them to 8-8. If Colbert doesn't trade up for Bush and he doesn't trade for Fitzpatrick, they are 3-13 or 4-12 all other things remaining constant, even Watt having an amazing year

Why do people always give Cowher credit for "his players" but Tomlin gets none for his? Last time I checked, the Steelers had a GM when Cowher was here.

[Butch]

When you have an amazing defense like we do that produces turnovers and money kicker, you pretty much start out at 8-8.

The problem is we play like a 4-12 team too often. Today for example Or vs the Jets or Browns

The Steelers have won just three division title in the last nine seasons in a division that included the Browns and Bungles. We have not won a playoff game in four years, and we are 3-6 in our last nine playoff games. Anyone who thinks that's good doesn't know much about football or has very low standards.

Look--Tomlin had a good start to his career, with a roster stocked of Bill Cohwer players, but its abundantly clear when those players aged / retired the Steelers declined. LeBeau and Munchak impacted the team more than he does. Todd Haley? Calling Randy F Fantastic? Keeping a very bad special teams coach?

While the Defense is Great they can't win it all by themselves, so to say that they pretty much start out 8-8 is a far cry from reality especailly with 2 completely un-proven rookie QBs. Then take away the RBs and WRs and well that aint a lot to work with.

You failed to mention the other team in the division is no slouch in Baltimore. The team we should have beat earlier in the season save a bad roughing the passer call and a JuJu fumble.

I am not a Tomlin fan far from it but I am a realist and when it comes to this year I have to give him props for all he has done right. If you would have told me this team would go 8-8 the moment Ben went down and would be in the playoff hunt to the bitter end I would have wanted to know what you were smoking. IDK maybe this year will be a good turning point for him, we can only hope it is. I look forward to seeing what comes from next year.

[teegre]

He's not forced to do anything. He let Arians go, who is clearly better than Haley and Fitchner. That's the OC we won the last super bowl with by the way. Arians had a really bad OL to work with.

Actually, yes he is (forced to take on this assistants).

Arians burned too many bridges. Case in point: Ariana leaked several draft picks to the media... picks which were stolen away (e.g. the Jets mysteriously trading up for Revis). Arians has to go. Even that... was an ARII decision.

[AtlantaDan]

He's not forced to do anything. He let Arians go, who is clearly better than Haley and Fitchner. That's the OC we won the last super bowl with by the way. Arians had a really bad OL to work with.

AJRII fired Arians because Ben was headed toward an early end to his career with the deep drops and repeated QB hits/sacks that are part of a BA offense

And Arians was along for the ride with the defense in the Super Bowl season

Offense was 20th in points, 22nd in yards out of 32 teams
https://www.pro-football-reference.c...s/pit/2008.htm