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Thread: Going Forward; What You Want to See

  1. #1

    Going Forward; What You Want to See

    So, there are decisions to be made going forward. What do you want to see:

    Players

    • Draft: what position is the most important to draft at if a player is available for it?
    • What is the most important free agent pick up (position)?


    • QB position. Do we get another guy this draft as a backup? Do we try to sign a vet on the back end of his career? Do we go forward with what we have?
    • Do we keep Dupree if the price is right (and what is the right price)?


    Coaches


    • Offensive Coordinator. Can we really dump everything on the OC's lap since we're playing basically with players one step away from being scrubbs? Do we want another?
    • Not So Special Teams Coordinator. Who do you want to see come in? Do we keep what we have?


  2. #2

    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Draft: I'd like to see running back be the top concern. Draft a young guy to come in and take the bulk of the carries. We just don't have that spark that we need.
    Free Agent: A true number 1 receiver. I know, it won't happen because it'd cost too much, but I'd love to see it.
    QB: Get someone on the back end of his career. Take the pressure off Mason and let him slip back to number 3 next year and focus on running the scout team against our defense. A good year of development should be enough to tell us what we need to do at this position.
    Dupree: Yes. Keep him. Dupree + Watt is greater than the sum of its parts. They're turning into a very good team and I'd hate to break that up.

    OC: I'm so-so. I mean, when I can tell whether it's going to be a run or pass, there's something wrong. On the other hand, he had very little to work with this year and still eked out 8 wins. So, I say if the right guy is there, then get him. Otherwise, stay with what we have for another year.

    STC: Let the ball-boy run special teams. Can't be much worse than what we've seen this year.


  3. #3
    Senior Member Array title="Shoes has a reputation beyond repute"> Shoes's Avatar

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    A TE that can block, catch and isn't made of glass.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    How about a RB not made of glass who actually has NFL speed?
    Yes, that also.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Draft: I'd like to see running back be the top concern. Draft a young guy to come in and take the bulk of the carries. We just don't have that spark that we need.
    x2.

    Find another Jerome Bettis type RB and get back to pounding the ball down people throats. Look what the Ravens just did. Everyone has designed their teams to be Pass first and almost exclusively.

    Turn the tide and bring Bettis out of retirement. :>) Those were the days... huh ?
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    Thread DeRailer Array title="tube517 has a reputation beyond repute"> tube517's Avatar

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    RB, TE, OLB, OG, DT

    Dupree, Hargrave, and Finney are likely gone.


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  8. #8

    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by katmandu View Post
    x2.

    Find another Jerome Bettis type RB and get back to pounding the ball down people throats. Look what the Ravens just did. Everyone has designed their teams to be Pass first and almost exclusively.

    Turn the tide and bring Bettis out of retirement. :>) Those were the days... huh ?
    The problem is that kind of offense doesn't win SBs. Sure, it gets you to the playoffs, but it doesn't win SBs. After all, the Ravens are the number 1 seed because they have a QB who can throw the ball and run it. It's not as much pounding the ball as it is threatening the pass and then picking up chunks of yards once the DBs are 20 yards off the LOS in coverage.

    I'd prefer to find someone more like Bell that can split out but can run up the middle and also block. We need a guy with three good sets of tools in his tool chest rather than a guy with one great set of tools in his tool chest.


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    Senior Member Array title="BlackAndGold has a reputation beyond repute"> BlackAndGold's Avatar

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Draft: OL, TE, DL, RB

    Add a QB coach, and a new WR coach to the staff. Fictner is going nowhere, Doubt Ben wants to learn a whole new system at age 38.(though Imo that should not matter, who knows if he'll be good anymore)

    Free agents: Not much money to work with, though they can make cap space by cutting Chick, Barron and maybe Vance(maybe cut and re-signed cheaper? will be interesting). They'll use that space to re-sign Bud, or at the very least they'll tag him. I'd try to sign a NT like Andrew Billlings. Could get him by a bargain signing. I hate knowing that Hargrave will be leaving. Anything else is vet min contracts.
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    Draft: OL, TE, DL, RB

    Add a QB coach, and a new WR coach to the staff. Fictner is going nowhere, Doubt Ben wants to learn a whole new system at age 38.(though Imo that should not matter, who knows if he'll be good anymore)

    Free agents: Not much money to work with, though they can make cap space by cutting Chick, Barron and maybe Vance(maybe cut and re-signed cheaper? will be interesting). They'll use that space to re-sign Bud, or at the very least they'll tag him. I'd try to sign a NT like Andrew Billlings. Could get him by a bargain signing. I hate knowing that Hargrave will be leaving. Anything else is vet min contracts.

    Beside's your draft the QB & WR coach is a must.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    A TE that can block, catch and isn't made of glass.
    Jesse James

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Neversatisfied View Post
    Jesse James
    No thanks.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    Beside's your draft the QB & WR coach is a must.
    Agreed. I have no idea why no QB coach was added during the off season. With a group of young QB's you think they would want a coach who's only job is helping them develop.
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Neversatisfied View Post
    Jesse James
    You know he barely plays in Detroit, right?

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    For QBs, I think we cut Hodges loose and give Rudolph one more year to see if he improves any. We are unlikely to find our future starter in this draft, so we are basically looking at backups. That leaves us needing one more guy, so it's between Lynch or someone else. As far as I'm concerned, we didn't get a look at him at all, so might as well keep him and see what we get, and he is more likely to be an ok backup in 2020 than some random 4th-rounder who isn't ready to play at all (and doesn't cost us a draft pick either). Unless the coaches thought he was so dumb he can't learn the playbook, in which case I guess he goes too. No way of telling that, though.

    I don't think we spend big money on a backup - fact is, if Ben goes down for more than a few games, we're just screwed anyway. The one exception being if his recovery for next season is in doubt, then we might go after one of those intermediate but experienced Case Keenum - Andy Dalton types (dare I say Joe Flacco?) as insurance.

    I would not sign Dupree. I think his actual value to a team, including ours, is about half what his salary will be, so that is just a bad personnel move. I would bring him back long-term at less than he made this year, which would be like $8M a year max, and that clearly just is not gonna happen. So, you don't do it.

    The kind of contract he will get has a huge, huge risk of being Woodley 2.0, and I do not want to roll those dice even a little bit. This season did nothing but jack up the price and the uncertainty. Call me crazy if you want, but I think there's also a non-zero chance he's using steroids. Contract year, nothing to lose, potentially a $50 million payoff, suddenly a breakout year, series of nagging injuries finally stops ... all coincidence?

    The one thing I'd be ok with is using the tag on him and seeing if it was really a one-time thing. That will actually probably be cheaper than the average of a long-term deal, so why not.

    Don't let Hargrave leave for any reason, prioritize him over Dupree in a heartbeat. If Tuitt is not full strength or gets hurt again, there is a chance of operating with one real defensive lineman, who is getting old real quick.

    We don't need to draft a TE, I think both of our top 2 would be acceptable if we didn't have dogshit at QB all year. We probably will not give up on Gentry yet either.

    I would prioritize depth or replenishment players at OL, DL, and the defensive backfield; if we find a starting RB or WR falling to us, then we're lucky, so we grab him.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Senior Member Array title="BlackAndGold has a reputation beyond repute"> BlackAndGold's Avatar

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    You know he barely plays in Detroit, right?
    I'd take him back on a vet min...
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    I'd take him back on a vet min...
    To do what? He's a below average blocker and a poor reciever. I wouldn't want him even if he paid to be on the roster.

  18. #18

    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    Draft: OL, TE, DL, RB

    Add a QB coach, and a new WR coach to the staff. Fictner is going nowhere, Doubt Ben wants to learn a whole new system at age 38.(though Imo that should not matter, who knows if he'll be good anymore)

    Free agents: Not much money to work with, though they can make cap space by cutting Chick, Barron and maybe Vance(maybe cut and re-signed cheaper? will be interesting). They'll use that space to re-sign Bud, or at the very least they'll tag him. I'd try to sign a NT like Andrew Billlings. Could get him by a bargain signing. I hate knowing that Hargrave will be leaving. Anything else is vet min contracts.
    Cutting Baron gives us 5.2 million. Chick is another 5 million. I'd rather see Berry go than Vance, but Berry's cut would net 1.8 million under the cap and Vance, another 5 million. If we cut Baron and Chick, we're 15 million under the cap for next year before we start signing players.

    The other thing they can do is sign Nelson to an extension (they won't as he's under contract for the next two seasons). But if they did, that's another 5 million they can save next year. They could even restructure and save a couple million.


  19. #19
    Senior Member Array title="BlackAndGold has a reputation beyond repute"> BlackAndGold's Avatar

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    To do what? He's a below average blocker and a poor reciever. I wouldn't want him even if he paid to be on the roster.
    Ben trusted him, and he had a solid career here for his role. And like you said he plays for Detroit. Eric Ebron was a bust there, he left then had a breakout season.

    JJ is also better than Gentry. Vance also may be a surprise cut. Any type of cheap depth is needed.
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

  20. #20
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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    Ben trusted him. And like you said he plays for Detroit. Eric Ebron was a bust there, he left then had a breakout season.

    JJ is also better than Gentry. Vance also may be a surprise cut. Any type of depth is needed.

    Not going to happen with JJ. He's another tire patch and beside's that he compared the Steelers to "Keeping up with the Kardashians" among other issues he had with the team. Right or wrong he won't be back.
    https://www.pennlive.com/steelers/20...-steelers.html

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    Senior Member Array title="BlackAndGold has a reputation beyond repute"> BlackAndGold's Avatar

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    FWIW: the Dolphins with the Steelers pick will pick 18th overall.

    Thanks again for Minkah.
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

  22. #22
    Senior Member Array title="HollywoodSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> HollywoodSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    I guess the only legit argument for keeping Fichtner is that it might not be worth making Ben learn a whole new system. The year we really needed an OC to be really good was this year. If Ben has enough options at the LOS I suppose it might have more upside to keep what we have.


    So many issues with this OC are instantly fixed just by having the QB that the system was designed for.

    Next year is the year we’ll realize see how good Ben is. We probably can’t afford a vet back up who can win with this offense and OC. So it’s Ben or bust.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Array title="BlackAndGold has a reputation beyond repute"> BlackAndGold's Avatar

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    Not going to happen with JJ. He's another tire patch and beside's that he compared the Steelers to "Keeping up with the Kardashians" among other issues he had with the team. Right or wrong he won't be
    https://www.pennlive.com/steelers/20...-steelers.html
    I forgot about that. So yeah unlikely he'll be back.
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

  24. #24

    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    For QBs, I think we cut Hodges loose and give Rudolph one more year to see if he improves any. We are unlikely to find our future starter in this draft, so we are basically looking at backups. That leaves us needing one more guy, so it's between Lynch or someone else. As far as I'm concerned, we didn't get a look at him at all, so might as well keep him and see what we get, and he is more likely to be an ok backup in 2020 than some random 4th-rounder who isn't ready to play at all (and doesn't cost us a draft pick either). Unless the coaches thought he was so dumb he can't learn the playbook, in which case I guess he goes too. No way of telling that, though.
    I agree that Hodges is cut, but not until after camp. Rudolph is given another year.

    I don't think we spend big money on a backup - fact is, if Ben goes down for more than a few games, we're just screwed anyway. The one exception being if his recovery for next season is in doubt, then we might go after one of those intermediate but experienced Case Keenum - Andy Dalton types (dare I say Joe Flacco?) as insurance.
    I'm not so sure we're screwed if Ben goes down. This year, all we needed was an slightly below-average QB and we'd have made the playoffs and perhaps, made it to the second round. I'd much rather see someone with experience sitting on the bench. RGIII would have even taken us to the playoffs this year. So, I think it is worth doing.

    I would not sign Dupree. I think his actual value to a team, including ours, is about half what his salary will be, so that is just a bad personnel move. I would bring him back long-term at less than he made this year, which would be like $8M a year max, and that clearly just is not gonna happen. So, you don't do it.

    The kind of contract he will get has a huge, huge risk of being Woodley 2.0, and I do not want to roll those dice even a little bit. This season did nothing but jack up the price and the uncertainty. Call me crazy if you want, but I think there's also a non-zero chance he's using steroids. Contract year, nothing to lose, potentially a $50 million payoff, suddenly a breakout year, series of nagging injuries finally stops ... all coincidence?
    Usually, injuries come with steroids. Sure, they help heal muscle contusions and rebuild fiber, even after the player stops taking them. But they also lead to damage in cartilage, disks, and so on. Also, he didn't show any more strength this year, IMO. What he showed was a lot more football intelligence. So, I think there's a pretty good chance he did it without steroids. He also doesn't look any bigger than normal.

    The one thing I'd be ok with is using the tag on him and seeing if it was really a one-time thing. That will actually probably be cheaper than the average of a long-term deal, so why not.
    We're completely agreed here. I think that is a perfect way of going about it. Give him a one-year prove-it tag. He has already said he's willing to play under it. So tag him. If he performs well the second year, give him the contract as two years of work habits will now be ingrained.
    Don't let Hargrave leave for any reason, prioritize him over Dupree in a heartbeat. If Tuitt is not full strength or gets hurt again, there is a chance of operating with one real defensive lineman, who is getting old real quick.
    Yes and no. We have a much better record picking up Dline players than LBs. Odds are we can pick up someone that will contribute significantly more at DLine than we could at the LB position.
    We don't need to draft a TE, I think both of our top 2 would be acceptable if we didn't have dogshit at QB all year. We probably will not give up on Gentry yet either.
    Completely agree.
    I would prioritize depth or replenishment players at OL, DL, and the defensive backfield; if we find a starting RB or WR falling to us, then we're lucky, so we grab him.
    I'd pair my third and second to climb and grab a RB. I'd pair a second and fourth or fifth to climb for a WR. Otherwise, you're right, we're drafting backups. Although, it may be time to start looking for some replacements on that line.


  25. #25
    Senior Member Array title="Fire Goodell has a reputation beyond repute"> Fire Goodell's Avatar

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    I don’t want to see Duck Hodges play another snap for the Steelers, dude is straight up garbage

  26. #26

    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    Not going to happen with JJ. He's another tire patch and beside's that he compared the Steelers to "Keeping up with the Kardashians" among other issues he had with the team. Right or wrong he won't be back.
    https://www.pennlive.com/steelers/20...-steelers.html
    You're right on being a tire patch rather than a long term solution. On the other hand, I think there were several Steelers who probably agreed with him on the Kardashian comment. It has been very quiet there this year. I don't think he'd have a problem with the locker room at this point.


  27. #27
    Senior Member Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute"> AtlantaDan's Avatar

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    Agreed. I have no idea why no QB coach was added during the off season. With a group of young QB's you think they would want a coach who's only job is helping them develop.
    Randy has it covered - never want to look over your shoulder at a potential successor since the last two coordinator hires were internal promotions

  28. #28

    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    I don’t want to see Duck Hodges play another snap for the Steelers, dude is straight up garbage
    I disagree. This game he protected the ball pretty well (at least in the air). He had one mistake protecting the ball on a sack. Remember, this was an undrafted rookie. I personally think he has a higher ceiling than many are giving him credit for and wouldn't mind seeing him with the team.

    However, I just don't think that'll happen. Mason R. played good enough in his limited snaps before his injury to earn a spot in camp next year. I think Duck will come back to camp as well, but as a camp arm. He'll get some snaps at the end of preseason games, maybe, but he'll really have to prove himself because I think there's going to be two or three other guys outside of Mason R. and Ben R. penciled in ahead of him when camp starts.


  29. #29
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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Some people will say bring in a new QB but honestly the backups we had were thrust into horrible situations
    -Shit O-line the caliber of the late 00s o-lines
    -No reliable WR or TE
    -No real QBs coach
    -Probably the worst OC in the NFL, a guy who struggles with basic concepts as play construction, situational football, and the idea that if a play doesn't work it shouldn't be run

    Honestly I think there may have been 4 QBs in the NFL that would have had any success with this shit supporting cast around him: Russell Wilson, Patrick Mahomes, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers. The fact that even Ben looked bad when he was healthy speaks volumes

    Moving forward the Steelers need the following
    A better OC: I don't care if he is Ben's buddy, he is horrible. This year unequivocally proved that without elite talent around him, Fichtner is clueless. If Ben doesn't recover or he gets injured again this offense is toast. A good OC can help elevate a QB and maximize a QB's potential (you know like how Greg Roman has designed an offense around maximizing Lamar Jackson's strengths)
    O-line coach: Sarrett doesn't need more time, he was inherited an elite o-line and promptly ruined it. He needs to be replaced with someone who isn't a legacy pick
    O-linemen: Foster's done, AV was horrible, The only time Pouncey didn't look disinterested was when he was defending Rudolph against Myles Garrett, the other o-linemen were horrible. Without a high quality o-line coach, they need to devote some resources to on polished technically sound o-linemen. Sign quality veteran o-linemen in free agency and draft polished players in the draft
    Receivers and TEs: They don't have a reliable no. 1 WR or TE. Juju was proven to be mediocre at best without AB and he chokes in the clutch. They need a game-breaking receiving threat who can help open up the offense. The offense suffered without AB.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, Steelers need to get rid of Danny Smith and Jordan Berry and replace them. These two should have been canned years ago

    As for Bud, he's a no. 2 OLB at best, at worst he's playing for a contract. Since TJ likes him I would be willing to pay $9 million at best, if he won't agree to that, let him leave and sign with Miami or Washington. Breaking the bank for him when they need veteran help elsewhere would be a misuse of cap space

  30. #30
    Senior Member Array title="HollywoodSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> HollywoodSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    FWIW: the Dolphins with the Steelers pick will pick 18th overall.

    Thanks again for Minkah.
    Of all the possible mistakes we can make in 2020, our first round pick isn’t one of them. With the 18th pick the Steelers select Minkah Fitzpatrick. A guaranteed home run, perennial pro bowler.

    And not only is this pick an absolute steal, didn’t we also exchange a fifth round pick for a fourth round pick?

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