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Thread: Going Forward; What You Want to See

  1. #31
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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    On the topic of tight ends. It does not seem to be that that strong of a draft class(though there seems to be value in rounds 2 and 3). I wonder if they could buy low on OJ Howard from Tampa? He is non existent down there. So much talent but they can't use him. Could be a Minkah like situation, but the cost will be much cheaper.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    Of all the possible mistakes we can make in 2020, our first round pick isn’t one of them. With the 18th pick the Steelers select Minkah Fitzpatrick. A guaranteed home run, perennial pro bowler.

    And not only is this pick an absolute steal, didn’t we also exchange a fifth round pick for a fourth round pick?
    That is correct. It just has not been confirm if it's the Dolphins pick or the Titans. Either way they moved up a round.
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Fichtner gone
    Veteran QB
    TE in the draft R2-3
    Sign Bud

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    Randy has it covered - never want to look over your shoulder at a potential successor since the last two coordinator hires were internal promotions
    Indeed.



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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    We need to make a lot of changes.

    1 ) Coaches. Fire or if we are very lucky trade Tomlin. The new head coach can pick a better Offensive coordinator and special teams coach. We should have the pick of ANY coach. Who wouldn't want to coach the Steelers?
    2 ) Draft. Heavy on offense. RB, TE, OL. In that order. Secondary needs depth at Saftey and Punter.
    3 ) Free agency, cut Chickillo and Foster . This saves 9 million in cap space. Heck, cut Betty too, they saves 1.8 million on the cap. 10 Million in cap space equals we can get a good player in free agency.

    I think Dupree has shown enough to keep.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    So, there are decisions to be made going forward. What do you want to see:

    Players

    • Draft: what position is the most important to draft at if a player is available for it?
    • What is the most important free agent pick up (position)?


    • QB position. Do we get another guy this draft as a backup? Do we try to sign a vet on the back end of his career? Do we go forward with what we have?
    • Do we keep Dupree if the price is right (and what is the right price)?


    Coaches


    • Offensive Coordinator. Can we really dump everything on the OC's lap since we're playing basically with players one step away from being scrubbs? Do we want another?
    • Not So Special Teams Coordinator. Who do you want to see come in? Do we keep what we have?
    Draft* Imo, we go BPA at RB, WR, OL, or TE with our 2nd rd pick.

    Free Agent* It really depends on whether Dupree or Hargrave is brought back. If we lose Dupree we sign an OLB...if we lose Hargrave we sign a DT. I would love to see Teddy Bridgewater brought in. The only way that's possible is if Ben retires.

    QB position* I think a lot of people believe that as soon as Ben comes back this team is a contender. Ben's best days are behind him. Eli is done, Rivers was terrible this year. Ben is next. I don't see us taking a QB in this draft. We roll with Ben for one more season, or until he's injured. Sign a veteran QB for cheap. Rudolph has no future in this league, but we keep him around for another season.

    Dupree* I think we tag him. Too many needs to have to worry about another. Hopefully he doesn't go the Lev Bell route.

    OC* I couldn't care less. Fichtner doesn't have much to work with. I don't think he's great by any means, but I'd give him another year.

    This isn't going to be the popular opinion, but the best thing that could happen is Ben retiring. It will start the rebuilding process one year sooner. If Ben retires then we immediately have no expectations. It makes losing Dupree or Hargrave a little less salty. It also may free up a lot of cap space? Not sure on that though. I also believe we make a couple of trades to stock up on picks in this draft. I wouldn't be opposed to trading Juju for a 2nd rd pick. I would also trade Conner for a 4th or 5th.

    We play one season with a veteran QB not named Roethlisberger and we suck horribly. So badly that we have the #1 pick and Trevor Lawrence becomes our next franchise QB. I know many don't like the tanking idea, but I can't remember a time where we had so many holes. OL isn't getting any younger and it's showing. We have no true #1 RB or WR. Our TE is made of glass.

    Trevor Lawrence would be the guy to build around.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    So, there are decisions to be made going forward. What do you want to see:

    Players

    • Draft: what position is the most important to draft at if a player is available for it?
    • What is the most important free agent pick up (position)?


    • QB position. Do we get another guy this draft as a backup? Do we try to sign a vet on the back end of his career? Do we go forward with what we have?
    • Do we keep Dupree if the price is right (and what is the right price)?


    Coaches


    • Offensive Coordinator. Can we really dump everything on the OC's lap since we're playing basically with players one step away from being scrubbs? Do we want another?
    • Not So Special Teams Coordinator. Who do you want to see come in? Do we keep what we have?
    PLAYERS
    Draft - OL, OLB, CB(RB will be better with current personnel once we have the offense to help them)
    FA - OL, OLB, CB(Quality depth at all 3)
    QB - Ben is back. Rudolph, Hodges, and Lynch can battle for #2. Not wasting resources for if Ben goes down for the season again.
    Dupree - Of course we keep him if the price is right. (Market value for a starting OLB)

    COACHES
    OC - No we cannot dump all the offensive woes in Fichtner's lap. BUT...We can move on from him as OC. Not sure who at this time but we need an OC with a bit more depth with playcalling.
    ST - Get me somebody! Anybody! And get me somebody while I'm waiting!

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    Draft* Imo, we go BPA at RB, WR, OL, or TE with our 2nd rd pick.

    Free Agent* It really depends on whether Dupree or Hargrave is brought back. If we lose Dupree we sign an OLB...if we lose Hargrave we sign a DT. I would love to see Teddy Bridgewater brought in. The only way that's possible is if Ben retires.

    QB position* I think a lot of people believe that as soon as Ben comes back this team is a contender. Ben's best days are behind him. Eli is done, Rivers was terrible this year. Ben is next. I don't see us taking a QB in this draft. We roll with Ben for one more season, or until he's injured. Sign a veteran QB for cheap. Rudolph has no future in this league, but we keep him around for another season.

    Dupree* I think we tag him. Too many needs to have to worry about another. Hopefully he doesn't go the Lev Bell route.

    OC* I couldn't care less. Fichtner doesn't have much to work with. I don't think he's great by any means, but I'd give him another year.

    This isn't going to be the popular opinion, but the best thing that could happen is Ben retiring. It will start the rebuilding process one year sooner. If Ben retires then we immediately have no expectations. It makes losing Dupree or Hargrave a little less salty. It also may free up a lot of cap space? Not sure on that though. I also believe we make a couple of trades to stock up on picks in this draft. I wouldn't be opposed to trading Juju for a 2nd rd pick. I would also trade Conner for a 4th or 5th.

    We play one season with a veteran QB not named Roethlisberger and we suck horribly. So badly that we have the #1 pick and Trevor Lawrence becomes our next franchise QB. I know many don't like the tanking idea, but I can't remember a time where we had so many holes. OL isn't getting any younger and it's showing. We have no true #1 RB or WR. Our TE is made of glass.

    Trevor Lawrence would be the guy to build around.
    This is all very interesting but totally unrealistic.

    Tomlin is ABSOLUTELY going nowhere. Fichtner is most likely going nowhere.

    We won’t know what Ben has left in the tank until we see him, because we’re going all in on him next year.

    He’ll at least have one less year where and tear as Rivers and Eli. And if he’s as bad as you think he is then we’ll be drafting high anyway.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    This is all very interesting but totally unrealistic.

    Tomlin is ABSOLUTELY going nowhere. Fichtner is most likely going nowhere.

    We won’t know what Ben has left in the tank until we see him, because we’re going all in on him next year.

    He’ll at least have one less year where and tear as Rivers and Eli. And if he’s as bad as you think he is then we’ll be drafting high anyway.
    The fact is, we've been going all in on Ben the past 3 seasons and now our roster is paying for it with 0 Super Bowl rings to show for it. I've never really liked the idea of tanking either, but now is as good of a time as any.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    The fact is, we've been going all in on Ben the past 3 seasons and now our roster is paying for it with 0 Super Bowl rings to show for it. I've never really liked the idea of tanking either, but now is as good of a time as any.
    We finally have the defense we’ve needed. Plus I believe that even with the defense we had in 2018, if Boswel had just been this good we’d have been Super Bowl contenders.

    Plus I think our young WRs are going to be pretty damn good next year.

    If we keep this defense together and Ben doesn’t totally fall apart we will have a shot.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    We finally have the defense we’ve needed. Plus I believe that even with the defense we had in 2018, if Boswel had just been this good we’d have been Super Bowl contenders.

    Plus I think our young WRs are going to be pretty damn good next year.

    If we keep this defense together and Ben doesn’t totally fall apart we will have a shot.
    I respect your optimism. We have 3 solid WRs and they all have one thing in common...They're all number 2's.

    The defense is great. They're super bowl worthy. Keep them together and build an offense around Trevor Lawrence next season. Likely? No. If I were GM? You bet your ass!

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Trade all of the 2020 draft picks and all of the 2021 draft picks in order to get up to #1 overall... and draft for Trevor Lawrence.

    Ben plays one more season (2020) then it’s Trevor Time (2021-2031).

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Imo, Lawrence is as sure of a thing as Andrew Luck was coming out of college.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    This is all very interesting but totally unrealistic.

    Tomlin is ABSOLUTELY going nowhere. Fichtner is most likely going nowhere.

    We won’t know what Ben has left in the tank until we see him, because we’re going all in on him next year.

    He’ll at least have one less year where and tear as Rivers and Eli. And if he’s as bad as you think he is then we’ll be drafting high anyway.
    I agree with RunNGun on this "I think a lot of people believe that as soon as Ben comes back this team is a contender. Ben's best days are behind him" It's easy to think Ben is going to rebound as he has done so many times in the past but he isn't the same Ben. Ben doesn't play much in the preseason and normally takes about 4-5 games to warm up. I don't think that will change with a season-ending injury. I just don't know if you put all your beans on his return as the problem solved. I hope the Steelers think long and hard about this in the offseason. As for the WR's I think they needed a good WR coach, the loss of Mann and Drake was a gutshot and they also need a QB coach.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    I agree with RunNGun on this "I think a lot of people believe that as soon as Ben comes back this team is a contender. Ben's best days are behind him" It's easy to think Ben is going to rebound as he has done so many times in the past but he isn't the same Ben. Ben doesn't play much in the preseason and normally takes about 4-5 games to warm up. I don't think that will change with a season-ending injury. I just don't know if you put all your beans on his return as the problem solved. I hope the Steelers think long and hard about this in the offseason. As for the WR's I think they needed a good WR coach, the loss of Mann and Drake was a gutshot and they also need a QB coach.
    I think a lot of people are counting on him being killer B Ben, but the days of winning on Ben's arm are over. Can he manage a game? Sure. Can he win a super bowl? No. It's a simple solution for me. Force him into retirement much like we did to Troy.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    My Trevor Lawrence pipe-dream aside...

    R2: Jacob Eason, QB, Washington Even if Ben comes back strong, I draft a QB in R2 (or R3) every year until I hit on the guy who can lead this team for the next decade.

    R3 comp: O-line They got old fast. I’m a firm believer that everything revolves around the play of the O-line.

    R4: O-line

    R4: O-line

    Re-sign Dupree

    Fire Fichtner

    Bring back Munchak.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    I'd pair my third and second to climb and grab a RB. I'd pair a second and fourth or fifth to climb for a WR. Otherwise, you're right, we're drafting backups. Although, it may be time to start looking for some replacements on that line.
    You can find a legitimate starting lineman in R2, and often a good LB or DB (varies by year, ILB is most likely). RB or WR you have to get lucky, but one or the other is often there also. I think we will most likely wait and see who is still available in early R2 and then start talking deals if we need to.

    We don't have any one position that's a dire need (which is nice), but several where we could use another guy, and where it will become a problem in a few years if we don't start thinking about it now. Both lines being the most obvious. But those are all the positions where you sometimes find good starters where we pick, so I imagine we just grab whoever falls.

    I actually do not think we are in as terrible shape as it seems at WR or RB. Yes, it would be nice to have a true playmaker there, but our existing group of guys at either position can cobble together a serviceable unit. Johnson and Washington can actually make some plays, who knows what they will do next year if we do not have a third-string QB playing half the season.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Oh... at some point I would draft Alex Highsmith, OLB, Charlotte. He’s gonna he GREAT!!!

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Oh... at some point I would draft Alex Highsmith, OLB, Charlotte. He’s gonna he GREAT!!!
    I know nothing about college football. What round will he go?

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    I know nothing about college football. What round will he go?
    That is the question.

    He played at a small school; so, I was hoping R4. But, then he played well against Clemson... and everyone took notice; so, then I figured R3. If he plays well at the Senior Bowl and/or has a good Combine, he could skyrocket up to R2.

    We have too many other needs than to use a R2 pick on an OLB... especially if we re-sign Dupree (I predict he gets the franchise tag). But, if Dupree is somehow allowed to leave (which I highly doubt), then R2 makes sense.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    I wonder what the plan will be at left guard if Foster is let go? I don't believe they'll re-sign Finney nor do I think they believe he a everyday starter(remember him being benched for the Rams game?) .

    1. Draft a guard(?) 2. Move Feiler inside and let Chuk/Banner/rookie battle at RT(?) I think 2 is very likely.
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Wow, so a few of you want to give up next season and tank it to get a QB? Some are the same guys saying we would have won a few more games (ie gotten into the playoffs) with just average QB play . . . We were an average QB away from a run this season, if any of you think Ben isn’t going to be an above average QB next season you are being ridiculous. I am excited for next season!

    As for the draft, TE and OL are my priorities, tag Dupree and sign Hargrave and our defense is set for the near future.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorhead View Post
    Wow, so a few of you want to give up next season and tank it to get a QB? Some are the same guys saying we would have won a few more games (ie gotten into the playoffs) with just average QB play . . . We were an average QB away from a run this season, if any of you think Ben isn’t going to be an above average QB next season you are being ridiculous. I am excited for next season!

    As for the draft, TE and OL are my priorities, tag Dupree and sign Hargrave and our defense is set for the near future.
    Offensively, we don't have a lot going for us right now. Oline is aging, WRs are inconsistent, RBs are soft, TEs are softer, and the QB is on his last leg backed by a couple of future XFL prospects.

    I like the idea of having a guy like Lawrence leading the offense while this defense is still young.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Draft an O Lineman,

    for FA’s would like to see the Steelers pickup a capable veteran backup QB, I just don’t trust Rudolph yet, nor Ben’s elbow, however, I think a FA wr is just as important, one that can take the top off the defense, and take the pressure off juju a bit. Ben needs a guy like that

    need to keep Dupree; pay him

    hopefully they let Fichtner go and get an upgrade at OC and add a quality QB coach. the guy seems to have no feel for calling plays, specially how best to help a young QB get going in a game

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    I really like Deon Cains potential as a vertical threat. He an ideal #4 WR Imo. Big, fast, young.

    WR's should they bring back Cain.
    JuJu
    Washington
    Johnson(He's going to be a star people)
    Cain
    Switzer(blah)
    Holton(He's one hell of a gunner, DHB 2.0)

    They'll draft a receiver but there is no strong need to do so Imo. Though it's a deep WR class so it may be hard not to take one.
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    So, there are decisions to be made going forward. What do you want to see:

    Players

    • Draft: what position is the most important to draft at if a player is available for it?
    • What is the most important free agent pick up (position)?


    • QB position. Do we get another guy this draft as a backup? Do we try to sign a vet on the back end of his career? Do we go forward with what we have?
    • Do we keep Dupree if the price is right (and what is the right price)?


    Coaches


    • Offensive Coordinator. Can we really dump everything on the OC's lap since we're playing basically with players one step away from being scrubbs? Do we want another?
    • Not So Special Teams Coordinator. Who do you want to see come in? Do we keep what we have?
    Through the draft and free agency, I’m looking for them invest in the O-Line. Pretty much all five positions could use attention at this point. T, G, C in that order.

    If they aren’t re-signing Dupree, (which I believe they will make an effort but a team will come along and offer him more, that’s pretty much a guarantee, it’s going to be up to Bud) then they need to address the OLB position and the depth there. Chickillo isn’t the answer.

    I’m not sure about Hargrave. They played a lot of 2DT but was that by design or because of personnel? I’d trust whatever move they make there. I’d like to see them keep Hargrave because a rotation of Heyward, Hargrave, Alualu and Tuitt is really nice to have.

    They may need to address the CB position as well. Not sure I remember Hadens contract status and then there’s Hilton.

    I’d love to see a backup QB signed. I’ve been asking for a solid veteran (Foles, Fitzpatrick types) before these two guys had their rates increase...back in the Landry Jones days. Unfortunately, this is a spot where the Steelers save money and don’t think they’ll do anything more then Ben, Rudolph and a guy named Duck or a person named Paxton.

    Coach-wise, Tomlin, Fichtner and Butler will all get passes. I’d be happy if Danny Smith received his walking papers today...he’s terrible...but, probably won’t happen. I’m not a Fichtner fan...I just don’t like his play calls or play design. Is he NFL qualified? Maybe. I just think it’s very obvious and bland as to what he calls.

    QB Coach is a must. WR Coach with some knowledges and grit is a must. Someone that can take Washington and put him over the top...someone that can reJUvenate JuJu...

    OL Coach - something needs to be done. The blocking schemes, the confusion, the lack of communication was a major flaw in the line this year...along with deteriorating talent.

    I think there’s MUCH MORE work than just adding Ben behind center. It’s not a total rebuild, but there’s some areas to be addressed. Going in to next season with this team as is and Ben at QB, we would be looking at a 9-7 team...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Biggest draft needs (imo) - RB, TE, OL, DL

    R2 - Draft a stud RB or Pouncey's potential replacement.
    R3 - Another WR or TE, I have a feeling Juju might have to be replaced if he wants more money than he's worth
    R4 - TE or OL
    R5-7 - OL, CB, DL depth

    Right now what this team needs the most IMHO is playmakers. We need a reliable one at RB. At this point, is it Ben really wanting to pass every play, or just knowing that we can't really count on the running game in crucial situations? Our current RB stable doesn't really inspire confidence in me unless we're playing a low ranked defense. Conner proved he could get it done, but also proved he can't stay healthy. Pouncey had a terrible season and I think he's close to done. The OL had a big time down year and I think they're getting long in the tooth, time to look for potential replacements in the interior OL. TE has been a need that hasn't really been addressed since we lost Miller. Juju will want his big payday, this I'm sure we could guarantee. The problem is, after this year, which was supposed to be his big test if he could handle the WR1 responsibility, was a huge flop. In my opinion, especially in clutch moments, he either let passes sail through his hands, or he fumbled. Also happened last year too. I know I'm gonna get hate for saying this with some people, but Juju is a quality #2 WR and that's it. I predict that Diontae Johnson will end up being the WR1. Juju will likely end up leaving the team for some team willing to give him a shot as a WR1 (And WR1 money).

    If Ben is coming back, I don't see the need to draft a QB, but honestly won't be super disappointed i we do. Mason vs the Jets showed me something, that he actually had the talent to be something in the NFL. It's a shame he got knocked out of the game because I wanted to see him play against Baltimore. When he does step into his throws, the dude can throw some lasers. There was one pass against NY where he threaded the needle between two defenders and it was a beauty. That's a pass Hodges would never make in a million years and that I've been waiting to see a QB other than Ben throw.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Hi pick O lineman. I'm a fan of building a team from the lines out, and I want the O-line of the future. O line coach might not be bad, but I've come to think that Munchak was merely smart about when to leave, as opposed to being the guy to make it all happen.

    QB coach. Ben may not "need" one, but our other guys sure do.

    Limited, but talented role players on offense. We can't draft a number 1 stud every time, but if you know that you need a power runner, then draft one, and use him only in power running situations. A blocking TE, fullback, special teams stars, whatever.

    Do the deals to keep the Defense together. That's the heart and soul of the team right there.

    Keep the coaching staff. Sorry, but that's the right call.
    Tomlin -- we literally won't find better, period. Got us through some incredibly difficult challenges this year that would sink nearly any coach you can think of, living or dead. Did we get the super bowl? Neither did Belichick when Brady went down. Did we get to the playoffs? No. But we got damn close, even after our SECOND quarterback was removed. Love him or hate him, he is nearly impossible to fault for this year's "collapse", as I think someone put it. A lot of teams with their starters wish for our "collapse".

    Fitchner -- got 8 wins with basically no QB play, and a fading O line, plus Ben likes him. He earned a shot at another year despite the horrible scripted starts. Butler -- the defense was elite level. You don't mess with that. The only reason you drop him is if Tomlin actually took over the defensive coordinator role, but that's just another reason that Tomlin would be indispensable. Hard to have it both ways. The unit delivered the goods like Optimus Prime shipping Amazon Prime. Whatever they did, keep at it.

  28. #58
    Member Array title="jens.karlsson.14 is an unknown quantity at this point">

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    To focus on the question at hand: a TE
    Ben will hopefully be back
    Our WR squad is a legion in the making
    Our RB with Whyte, Snell, maybe Connor is ok but sure, gimmie another rb
    Defense is legit

    So, to conclude and give the offense a very important dimension - gimme a Kettle / Kelse type TE



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  29. #59
    Senior Member Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Born2Steel's Avatar

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    My Trevor Lawrence pipe-dream aside...

    R2: Jacob Eason, QB, Washington Even if Ben comes back strong, I draft a QB in R2 (or R3) every year until I hit on the guy who can lead this team for the next decade.

    R3 comp: O-line They got old fast. I’m a firm believer that everything revolves around the play of the O-line.

    R4: O-line

    R4: O-line

    Re-sign Dupree

    Fire Fichtner

    Bring back Munchak.
    OR...Keep Fichtner as QB coach and hire Hue Jackson as OC.

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    Re: Going Forward; What You Want to See

    ravens have 3 of those

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