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Thread: Duck

  1. #91
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Duck

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    I am not sure I buy that. The reason there are so many more "running" QBs now is because there are more of them who actually CAN throw the ball. Not because the coaches in the '80s and '90s were all idiots who kept passing over good players and ignoring new schemes for no reason whatsoever, other than they were stupidly stuck in their ways.

    The big, BIG difference between now and then is how much the college game has changed. 30 years ago, it was a lot less sophisticated. A real passing game is really difficult and takes a lot of coordination that many teams just don't have (watch any HS game and it becomes obvious), and in those days even a lot of major college teams weren't up for it. The option offense was either a run or a different run - that was it. I mean, the 1988 national championship was between two teams with some of the best option/mobile college QBs ever, Notre Dame and West Virginia, and both passed something like 10 or 15 times the whole game. They looked for guys with the skill set to run that specific offense to perfection; they didn't care if they had a QB who made it big in the NFL, they wanted to win college championships, so they got QBs who were perfect for their simplified college offenses.

    No, it's not that all the coaches said "college offenses don't work in the NFL" because they were stupid and ignorant. It's that an '80s college option offense WAS way too one-dimensional to work in the pros. It would fucking suck, and the QBs running it in college had little to offer besides running it in the pros.

    It's not that NFL offenses changed by suddenly going "a-ha!" and incorporating the college game - it's that the college game, and the type of players it produced, changed into stuff that could actually work in the NFL. Honestly, what made that happen was two things - Michael Vick showing what kinds of things were possible with a QB who was both fast AND a legitimate passer; and then you had the Oregon/Florida type spread offenses, which were not really viable pro offenses, but helped raise the table stakes of the skill set needed to play QB. Then the group of grade school kids and high school coaches below them saw that - and what do you know, 10 years later, you had a whole lot of mobile QBs coming up who were a lot better on average than the ones before, and you had college offenses that prioritized that, rather than basically a glorified running back who could throw a little.

    Kordell Stewart's problem was that he was inaccurate and he threw more interceptions than TDs - not that he came around too early and his career was stifled by a bunch of Philistines. There had been good "mobile" QBs before - Cunningham, Steve Young, etc. - and after (but still before the current bumper crop) - McNair, Culpepper, Vick, McNabb ... the one thing they have in common is that the GOOD ones got a chance, and had long productive careers. Kordell had a career more like Rodney Peete's, because as a passer he was about as good as Rodney Peete. He would be a shitty starting QB in a read-option or hybrid college-style offense today, because every one of the current group of QBs in that style, along with the Vicks, McNairs, Culpeppers, McNabbs, etc. ... is simply a lot better passer than he ever was.
    All true and I can’t really disagree with most of it.

    I can only offer that the developments of the past 10-15 years at the college level could’ve happened at the pro level at almost any point. Not much of it is really all that revolutionary. But the NFL is risk averse and took far too long to make a commitment to running anything aside from a pro set 2 RB style offense. They evaluated players almost totally on that model and it is only when the college ranks stopped producing players that fit that system that the pro game moved its thinking. Some of the inaccurate passes of the past would likely be far more accurate if they played in the systems today that produce simple reads into open windows.

  2. #92
    Senior Member Array title="JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue has a reputation beyond repute"> JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue's Avatar

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    Re: Duck

    I think Steelreserve has a Catcher in The Rye book in him. Glad to have him here and he is the JD Salinger of the board!

  3. #93
    Senior Member Array title="steelreserve has a reputation beyond repute"> steelreserve's Avatar

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    Re: Duck

    Quote Originally Posted by JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue View Post
    I think Steelreserve has a Catcher in The Rye book in him. Glad to have him here and he is the JD Salinger of the board!
    Conversely, I bet if they had the internet back in the 1950s, J.D. Salinger would have been hanging around on football message boards, writing about shoving 40 bottles up people's asses and rolling around in dogshit.

    Something about yin and yang, or harmony of the universe, or some shit.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

  4. #94
    Senior Member Array title="JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue has a reputation beyond repute"> JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue's Avatar

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    Re: Duck

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Conversely, I bet if they had the internet back in the 1950s, J.D. Salinger would have been hanging around on football message boards, writing about shoving 40 bottles up people's asses and rolling around in dogshit.

    Something about yin and yang, or harmony of the universe, or some shit.
    Lol and you should be writing books and enjoy your post. Talent is there!

  5. #95
    Senior Member Array title="steelreserve has a reputation beyond repute"> steelreserve's Avatar

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    Re: Duck

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    All true and I can’t really disagree with most of it.

    I can only offer that the developments of the past 10-15 years at the college level could’ve happened at the pro level at almost any point. Not much of it is really all that revolutionary. But the NFL is risk averse and took far too long to make a commitment to running anything aside from a pro set 2 RB style offense. They evaluated players almost totally on that model and it is only when the college ranks stopped producing players that fit that system that the pro game moved its thinking. Some of the inaccurate passes of the past would likely be far more accurate if they played in the systems today that produce simple reads into open windows.
    Some of them, probably. Not Kordell, though. He could have a guy wide open 5 yards in front of him and overthrow him by 15.

    On the other hand, Colin Kaepernick was a decent QB in a read-option system, and probably still would have been for a few more years if the 49ers hadn't turtled him. That's the closest Kordell comparison I can think of. But he was STILL probably a better passer. At least a little.

    I think it's also pretty likely that a couple dozen Steve McNairs just ended up not playing quarterback, because they were pegged early on as RBs or WRs because of their speed.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

  6. #96
    Senior Member Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute"> pczach's Avatar

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    Re: Duck

    Here's a story about the Duck!

    Duck's season: 15 things to know about Steelers cult hero QB Devlin Hodges

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...cid=spartanntp

  7. #97
    NFL's Dirtiest Player Array title="86WARD has a reputation beyond repute"> 86WARD's Avatar

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    Re: Duck

    Nice story. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

  8. #98
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    Re: Duck

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    QFT.

    Not to mention...what are they going to say about a possible future QB? “We think he’s a solid Round 3 gamble.”?
    Exactly

    MEDIA: What are your thoughts on the mindset of a young QB taking over for a future HOFer?

    COLBERT: Rudolph is okayish.

    MEDIA: What are your thoughts on your granddaughter’s story about a cat?

    COLBERT: She’s no Albert Einstein.

    MEDIA: Your grandson is having surgery next week; talk to us about that.

    COLBERT: He night die; anything other than that I see as a bonus.

  9. #99
    Senior Member Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute"> AtlantaDan's Avatar

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    Re: Duck

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    QFT.

    Not to mention...what are they going to say about a possible future QB? “We think he’s a solid Round 3 gamble.”?
    How about something similar to "we had a first round grade on him" such as the lavish praise “He has not killed us”?

  10. #100
    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: Duck

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    On the other hand, Colin Kaepernick was a decent QB in a read-option system, and probably still would have been for a few more years if the 49ers hadn't turtled him. That's the closest Kordell comparison I can think of. But he was STILL probably a better passer. At least a little.

    I think it's also pretty likely that a couple dozen Steve McNairs just ended up not playing quarterback, because they were pegged early on as RBs or WRs because of their speed.
    In a sport where fans and pundits judge success by winning Super Bowls, I am always amused by how fans lose sight of that when guys like Kaepernick, Lamar Jackson, Vince Young, Kordell Stewart or Bob Griffin come along.

    I cant think of one read-option QB, or QB that his running ability was better than his passing ability …..won a championship. I like your McNair reference as I think he is a guy that could obviously lead a team to a championship because he was a better passer than runner of the football.

  11. #101
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Duck

    I'm sure these numbers will bounce around a bit if we looked at it separated by QB - but here they are in all their glory. These are the reasons I have reservations about the Steelers ability to mount a playoff run. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...estatsoff/2019

    28th in yards per drive
    26th in points per drive
    29th in plays per drive
    23rd in time of possession
    30th in drives that result in scores

    For some context, the 2000 Ravens ranked no lower than 23 in any of those categories and were 18th in points per drive.

  12. #102
    Senior Member Array title="Fire Goodell has a reputation beyond repute"> Fire Goodell's Avatar

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    Re: Duck

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I'm sure these numbers will bounce around a bit if we looked at it separated by QB - but here they are in all their glory. These are the reasons I have reservations about the Steelers ability to mount a playoff run. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...estatsoff/2019

    28th in yards per drive
    26th in points per drive
    29th in plays per drive
    23rd in time of possession
    30th in drives that result in scores

    For some context, the 2000 Ravens ranked no lower than 23 in any of those categories and were 18th in points per drive.
    Might have looked different if Hodges was the backup for most of the season. PFF ranked Mason Rudolph as #32 unsurprisingly, probably why the offense also has been ranked so low.

    Also some has to do with the game plan. Hodges had like 150 yards passing vs AZ mainly because they were playing with a lead all game, if they have the lead they'll likely be in ball control mode. I'm wondering how much of that is to limit Hodges' exposure, or not show their hand if not needed. I feel he's capable of passing for 300+ if the game plan dictates. I do hope that they get more aggressive on offense though, the turtleball stuff doesn't work in the playoffs.

  13. #103
    Senior Member Array title="slippy will become famous soon enough"> slippy's Avatar

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    Re: Duck

    Lamar is having a great season because nobody can get a good hit on him. But now he's got a quad injury to slow him down a touch.

    Methinks soon he will be RGIII ... er, RGIV ?

  14. #104
    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: Duck

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I'm sure these numbers will bounce around a bit if we looked at it separated by QB - but here they are in all their glory. These are the reasons I have reservations about the Steelers ability to mount a playoff run. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...estatsoff/2019

    28th in yards per drive
    26th in points per drive
    29th in plays per drive
    23rd in time of possession
    30th in drives that result in scores

    For some context, the 2000 Ravens ranked no lower than 23 in any of those categories and were 18th in points per drive.
    The bolded part is what's important. The offense now is very different from what it was for most of the season. It used to suck terribly, now it's average. I have no reason to think that the addition of JuJu and Conner into the mix or Duck's further evolution will make us worse.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  15. #105
    Senior Member Array title="steelreserve has a reputation beyond repute"> steelreserve's Avatar

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    Re: Duck

    As far as postseason success, we are basically in the same situation as the Ravens that one year when Moonball Joe was just throwing footballs straight up in the air and his receivers were somehow coming down with all of them and they won the Super Bowl.

    In order to win, we would need someone to catch fire for 4 games, or just be extremely lucky. There is about a 5% chance of that.

    It's still better than 0%, which is where we were before Hodges, because I think we would be at 5-8 and out of the playoff picture right now with Rudolph still in there.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

  16. #106
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    Re: Duck

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I'm sure these numbers will bounce around a bit if we looked at it separated by QB - but here they are in all their glory. These are the reasons I have reservations about the Steelers ability to mount a playoff run. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...estatsoff/2019

    28th in yards per drive
    26th in points per drive
    29th in plays per drive
    23rd in time of possession
    30th in drives that result in scores

    For some context, the 2000 Ravens ranked no lower than 23 in any of those categories and were 18th in points per drive.
    Also, we don’t need to try to light it up, our def allows us to turtle while Duck hopefully get more comfortable and learns more.

  17. #107
    Senior Member Array title="Fire Goodell has a reputation beyond repute"> Fire Goodell's Avatar

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    Re: Duck

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    As far as postseason success, we are basically in the same situation as the Ravens that one year when Moonball Joe was just throwing footballs straight up in the air and his receivers were somehow coming down with all of them and they won the Super Bowl.

    In order to win, we would need someone to catch fire for 4 games, or just be extremely lucky. There is about a 5% chance of that.

    It's still better than 0%, which is where we were before Hodges, because I think we would be at 5-8 and out of the playoff picture right now with Rudolph still in there.

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